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  1. #1

    Why use Aggression when u can use DoW?

    I'm just writing to ask fellow wardens about what are the true merits of using Aggression, as I myself don't see the point of using it instead than DoW or even Conviction. The group threat leech magnitude is the same on both Aggression and DoW/Conv, right? Or am I wrong? Besides, DoW gives me much needed defensive buffs , and I would normally fire it x2 , since I usually battle memory it (the double fire is for the aggro leech part). Conviction, besides the aggro leech also gives me the much needed group HoT. Yes, I know and understand that Aggression has a shorter animation than DoW .... BUT the point is that I will ALWAYS include DoW and Conviction on my tanking rotation, because of their added benefits... So, with already two aggro leeches on my tanking rotation (that also have fringe defensive/HoT benefits) why would I use precious time (and mastery builders) to pop Agression, when it has no other benefit besides the aggro leech itself?

    Thanks in advance for your replies,
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by EtherSunrider View Post
    I'm just writing to ask fellow wardens about what are the true merits of using Aggression, as I myself don't see the point of using it instead than DoW or even Conviction. The group threat leech magnitude is the same on both Aggression and DoW/Conv, right? Or am I wrong? Besides, DoW gives me much needed defensive buffs , and I would normally fire it x2 , since I usually battle memory it (the double fire is for the aggro leech part). Conviction, besides the aggro leech also gives me the much needed group HoT. Yes, I know and understand that Aggression has a shorter animation than DoW .... BUT the point is that I will ALWAYS include DoW and Conviction on my tanking rotation, because of their added benefits... So, with already two aggro leeches on my tanking rotation (that also have fringe defensive/HoT benefits) why would I use precious time (and mastery builders) to pop Agression, when it has no other benefit besides the aggro leech itself?

    Thanks in advance for your replies,
    The tooltips do say they transfer the same amount, but my experience says Aggression is significantly more powerful than conviction or DoW (which do indeed seem to be equally powerful, after considering the heal threat on conviction).

    Also, Aggression uses different builders, so you can use the sp-fi mastery, which in my rotations has not other use. Aggression is also a faster animation (especially compared to DoW). My strategy with DoW and Conviction is to use them both just enough to keep the buffs active and rely quite heavily on Aggression for my total threat gen (after the initial pull is done).
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  3. #3
    I only use it, should I lose aggro or for whatever reason have trouble establishing it in the first place (hunterpull, having been rooted out of range, early silende/disarm etc.). then, however, it is very useful since a double aggression ist really fast. and I usually build it via f sh [sp-f], and except for corruption removal, the [sp-f] builder is of no use for me whily tanking.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    The tooltips do say they transfer the same amount, but my experience says Aggression is significantly more powerful than conviction or DoW (which do indeed seem to be equally powerful, after considering the heal threat on conviction).

    Also, Aggression uses different builders, so you can use the sp-fi mastery, which in my rotations has not other use. Aggression is also a faster animation (especially compared to DoW). My strategy with DoW and Conviction is to use them both just enough to keep the buffs active and rely quite heavily on Aggression for my total threat gen (after the initial pull is done).
    Pretty much this, both reasons.
    A) It's stronger, despite tooltip text lies. I recommend you get a buddy and some critters with a moderate amount of health and go mess around to get an idea of what skill's stronger.
    B) Sp-Fi can't be used for either DoW or Conviction so if you're making proper use of masteries it does not follow that Aggression is somehow eating up DoW or Conviction time. Nor is it great to make a habit of spamming either conviction or DoW more than once every 30ish seconds to get their buff/HoT when you could be using a stronger, faster threat skill instead.
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  5. #5
    I understand your points, but I actually do use Sp-Fi regularly: a) For Shield Mastery (Sh-SpFi-Sh) and Spear of Virtue ( Fi-SpFi-Sp). I know that very few wardens use Spear of Virtue anymore, but I have found a way to keep it a regular on my rotation while other masteries are on cooldown. I have found that the threat it generates is usefull, besides it does a little bit more damage than most tanking gambits ... yes the damage is negligible, but still if it is a regular part of your rotation in long fights, when added up it does help a bit with the group's overall DPS.

    Maybe I'm a noob or sumth, but after carefully reading your responses I still see no point for Agression on a regular tanking rotation. My tank rotation has it's bread and butter EoB, CoB, DoW, SoD, Conviction, CoS and Restoration, I always try to keep those up no matter what, and i never lose aggro unless i get stunned or silenced. On my spare time ( and masteries) I do SoV, WoS and Shield Mastery. To each its own I guess.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EtherSunrider View Post
    I understand your points, but I actually do use Sp-Fi regularly: a) For Shield Mastery (Sh-SpFi-Sh) and Spear of Virtue ( Fi-SpFi-Sp). I know that very few wardens use Spear of Virtue anymore, but I have found a way to keep it a regular on my rotation while other masteries are on cooldown. I have found that the threat it generates is usefull, besides it does a little bit more damage than most tanking gambits ... yes the damage is negligible, but still if it is a regular part of your rotation in long fights, when added up it does help a bit with the group's overall DPS.

    Maybe I'm a noob or sumth, but after carefully reading your responses I still see no point for Agression on a regular tanking rotation. My tank rotation has it's bread and butter EoB, CoB, DoW, SoD, Conviction, CoS and Restoration, I always try to keep those up no matter what, and i never lose aggro unless i get stunned or silenced. On my spare time ( and masteries) I do SoV, WoS and Shield Mastery. To each its own I guess.
    You use SoV over aggression? Oh man, the threat on it is so weak. I reiterate my advice to go a-testing.

    But EoB's strong--second to aggression in a full group of people to leech from--that's why you're doing ok on aggro.
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  7. #7
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    Some tests I alleviated with a friend of mine awhile back suggested that Aggression and Conviction give the exact same threat transfer as each other, only that conviction gives a group HoT (which would also apply healing threat).
    Of course, with those two gambits, aggression is obviously a much faster animation, with much more flexibility in building the gambit itself.

    DoW is not as powerful as a threat transfer than either Conviction or Aggression, but DoW is a necessary buffing gambit as well as a threat transfer.

    Aggression's only use is as a threat transfer, and in terms of threat is much more efficient than both Conviction or Dance of War. It is simply quicker to build in terms of masteries and gambit builders and has a faster gambit animation itself.


    In terms of threat:

    Aggression [Fastest animation, fastest loading time]
    >
    Conviction [Same threat transfer as Aggression, applies healing threat and a group HoT]
    >
    Dance of War [Longest animation time, Second longest loading time, gives an evade and mitigation buff]


    Conviction is > than aggression when you still want to establish some of your own threat and perhaps when some people in the group need healing.


    The only time DoW should take priority over either aggression or conviction is when you need to use it in your tanking rotation to keep your defences boosted, as defences will always take higher priority than threat (Assuming you don't have trouble establishing threat in the first place).

  8. #8
    Animation time

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  9. #9
    It depends on what you're tanking. I barely use Aggression when tanking a troll in BFE T2C because that fight is all about reducing incoming damage and aggro is not a problem at all. On the other hand if you ever tanked and Acid zerg where aggro is the main thing Aggression is much much superior than its 2 counterparts because it's faster and smaller.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shintagh View Post
    It depends on what you're tanking. I barely use Aggression when tanking a troll in BFE T2C because that fight is all about reducing incoming damage and aggro is not a problem at all. On the other hand if you ever tanked and Acid zerg where aggro is the main thing Aggression is much much superior than its 2 counterparts because it's faster and smaller.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Some tests I alleviated with a friend of mine awhile back suggested that Aggression and Conviction give the exact same threat transfer as each other, only that conviction gives a group HoT (which would also apply healing threat).

    When were these tests done? My perception is that with the U6 revamp, aggression was lowered to the level of conviction, but in a subsequent update (after the EoB+TV bug was fixed, late in RoI) aggression was boosted again, though not to its early RoI heyday.
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  12. #12
    I use aggression when I need a lot of threat instantly. I've personally saved several bfe raids when the other tank died. Guard dies, troll make beeline for healer, I pop aggression then ctb and the troll is mine. On occasion the guard gets rezzed and tries to take his troll back but another aggression and its mine once again.

    Does DOW or conviction work that well? I don't know for sure. I use it in my regular rotation but never to jump to the top of the agro charts.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    When were these tests done? My perception is that with the U6 revamp, aggression was lowered to the level of conviction, but in a subsequent update (after the EoB+TV bug was fixed, late in RoI) aggression was boosted again, though not to its early RoI heyday.
    Sometime around the hype of the ToO T2CM's. Perhaps it was raised back up again, but based off of purely experience I've had no reason to rethink the order I made in my previous post. Regardless of whether it still works like that or was changed, the order of operations still seems to be the same

 

 

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