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  1. #1

    Wardens...Both sides of the spectrum

    Yes, I know, another thread about wardens. However, before you breeze over this thread, it's not the typical post about shield wardens. Try the other end of the spectrum: spear. I don't know how many of you have had the displeasure of meeting a good spear warden yet, but a few on my server have gotten it down pretty well. Highest bleed I've seen to date was a big bleed that did 1128 (raw damage) every 4 seconds, for 32 seconds. With my aud and mits, this translates into the 300ish range. However, these frequently crit for over 700. Whereas the shield side gets an enormous amount of self heals, it seems as if they gave the other end the same number (if not more) in DoT's. The biggest problem is that these bleeds are incurable in every shape and form. In addition, they stack (as in you get small, medium, and big) for assailment PLUS recklessness (giving you at least 6 strong bleeds). I've also had tier 4 light damage every 4s (over 800 IIRC). An extra tidbit...just the normal gambits are insane as well..I'm by no means a squishy spider, but I've been hit by a crit wall of steel for over 4.5k. Anything without a constant heal is simply getting destroyed on our server. Wondering how others are faring out there.

    Just disheartening to be playing a class reknowned for its DoT's only to see them immediately potted off by any class. Add to that scenario a counter class that has incurable stacking DoT's and also has 10m longer range than you. Just a thought.
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  2. #2
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    Wardens are pretty much a 'do everything' class these days. After the power changes and nerf to power drains they have no discernible weakness at all.

    IMO this is exactly what the Devs were talking about when they referred to 'do it all' classes. One can hope this means restricting these things so they can't do all of them at once without changing their build.
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  3. #3
    Add the fact that they can macro hot swap gear (and stances) makes a smart warden a killing machine. I wish they would lock your gear once you enter combat.
    Last edited by CrenaSliver; Mar 29 2013 at 10:08 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrenaSliver View Post
    Add the fact that they can macro hot swap gear makes a smart warden a killing machine. I wish they would lock your gear once you enter combat.
    You know, I've actually yet to see one warden skilled enough, who can bother to learn this process and pull it off to it's maximum effectiveness.

    The theory of it is very scary, I am not denying that at all. Would be nice if it actually happened in this specific alignment in reow rife before we start accusations though!



    On the topic of the spear warden crisis as outlined by the OP, I would recommend to you dutifully two possible answers to the issue.

    First being, task a friendly BA to VT, PS and Revenge him.
    The second being: Shadow warg. That should be self explanatory.


    With the raw damage potential against the stats of your character already outlined, either of those two situations should not be in question as to have a 100% chance of success unless he is backed up with significant support.
    What about DC you may ask? Use your combat counter (Which is specifically designed to cease or pause combat, while DC itself is aimed at changing the course of it through active rendition) and problem solved.

    If some of you wish, we can discuss the potential effect of wardens who are actually able to ploy these effects realistically, in terms of how much these wardens are caught out as solo players versus the asimilar playstyle of the creep in question.

    Just a friendly warden bringing in some honest realism to your very specific situation.
    Last edited by Untg99; Mar 29 2013 at 10:20 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    ...
    First being, task a friendly BA to VT, PS and Revenge him.
    The second being: Shadow warg. That should be self explanatory.
    ...
    Just a friendly warden bringing in some honest realism to your very specific situation.
    Dear friendly warden, here some observations from a warg:

    1. spear wardens know about their fragility (compared to shield wardens), hence

    2. they rarely can be found solo, usually they are hiding behind the minis, hence

    3. your 2nd option is just a suicide commando for a warg, except if he brings a lot of friends, which

    4. will undoubtly lead to freep QQ and to a nerf of wargs by turbine

    .............................. .............................. .............................. ........

    Anyway, your best chances are to get in melee range to the warden.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    Dear friendly warden, here some observations from a warg:

    1. spear wardens know about their fragility (compared to shield wardens), hence

    2. they rarely can be found solo, usually they are hiding behind the minis, hence

    3. your 2nd option is just a suicide commando for a warg, except if he brings a lot of friends, which

    4. will undoubtly lead to freep QQ and to a nerf of wargs by turbine

    .............................. .............................. .............................. ........

    Anyway, your best chances are to get in melee range to the warden.
    Dear friendly warg,

    I was not meaning to generalise any of the above to all spear wardens. It is in my experience that most spear wardens do not go to the moors in full glasscannon, which is exactly the type of spear warden that the OP had described.

    Wardens that do play in such a manner would ideally be secondary or third targets to hunters in group situations.

  7. #7
    Desolates, an R7 warden on my server, seems to my untrained eyes to be exactly what you have described: a glass cannon solo warden.

    I've had good, close fights with him on my BA, but I actually have grown to prefer my R5 warg instead: oh man, dat DPS output. 8D
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CrenaSliver View Post
    Add the fact that they can macro hot swap gear (and stances) makes a smart warden a killing machine. I wish they would lock your gear once you enter combat.
    I don't think most Wardens are that lame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragnipurake View Post
    2. they rarely can be found solo, usually they are hiding behind the minis, hence
    I lol'd. Hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    Desolates, an R7 warden on my server, seems to my untrained eyes to be exactly what you have described: a glass cannon solo warden.

    I've had good, close fights with him on my BA, but I actually have grown to prefer my R5 warg instead: oh man, dat DPS output.
    The same one that made PvP Third Agers because of imbalance? O, that one. He's a god. Nice that you try, though.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    a glass cannon solo warden.
    define "glass" cannon
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DrKeyLogger View Post
    Yes, I know, another thread about wardens. However, before you breeze over this thread, it's not the typical post about shield wardens. Try the other end of the spectrum: spear. I don't know how many of you have had the displeasure of meeting a good spear warden yet, but a few on my server have gotten it down pretty well. Highest bleed I've seen to date was a big bleed that did 1128 (raw damage) every 4 seconds, for 32 seconds. With my aud and mits, this translates into the 300ish range. However, these frequently crit for over 700. Whereas the shield side gets an enormous amount of self heals, it seems as if they gave the other end the same number (if not more) in DoT's. The biggest problem is that these bleeds are incurable in every shape and form. In addition, they stack (as in you get small, medium, and big) for assailment PLUS recklessness (giving you at least 6 strong bleeds). I've also had tier 4 light damage every 4s (over 800 IIRC). An extra tidbit...just the normal gambits are insane as well..I'm by no means a squishy spider, but I've been hit by a crit wall of steel for over 4.5k. Anything without a constant heal is simply getting destroyed on our server. Wondering how others are faring out there.

    Just disheartening to be playing a class reknowned for its DoT's only to see them immediately potted off by any class. Add to that scenario a counter class that has incurable stacking DoT's and also has 10m longer range than you. Just a thought.
    I can't really disagree with the OP, though I'll try to clear up a few misconceptions in the post.
    This class is different from basically every other freep and creep class. There is almost no 'dead time' for skill animations, which is where most classes will do macro-swaps on gear. This isn't to say there are none ot that its impossible (its quite possible to do), but I've never seen a warden actively or effectively do in-combat gear-swaps in the moors, whether its to gain multiple armour bonuses, or morale/mastery trade-offs.

    Wall of Steel (assuming you mean the ranged one, since you listed only 1 hit) is the hardest hitting straight damage skill a warden has, in any stance, with any buffs. While the nature of the class allows for you to effectively spam this skill without cooldown, the nature of building gambits means if you tried to do something like that, the dps would stink. try as we might to compete with primary dps classes, no warden can genuinely compete with an equally geared and skilled hunter/champ/burg, though the gap is much closer than most believe.

    Regarding bleeds, I've said on a number of occasions that the bleeds ought to be more potent, but have their durations reduced to 16 seconds, like they used to be before our U6 revamp (so as to make our oevrall dps basically the same, without the ability to keep 75% of that dps while either swapping targets and doing the same, or swapping stances and healing to full. a warden has 4 actual bleeds at their disposal (not counting the bleed proc any class that equips a spear main-hand weapon can get). Using my shoddy warden build (pictured below):
    Javelin Toss 'minor bleed' on the tooltip: 288 damage every 4 seconds. This is a cooldown javelin skill, 8s cooldown, useable at any range or stance.
    Low bleed: in recklessness, the power attack skill - 394 dmg every 4 seconds
    Medium Bleed: in recklessness: mighty blow, in assailment: combination strike - ~550-600 dmg every 4 seconds (the damage varies slightly based on stance).
    Big Bleed: in recklessness: Unerring Strike, in assailment, Boar's Rush - 650-700 dmg every 4 seconds (same reason as above)
    The Medium bleed applied by mighty blow overwrites that of combination strike, and vice versa, and the same goes for the big bleed from unerring and boar's rush, so you cannot ever has 2 of any bleed type active at once. So your statement of 6 bleeds active at once is impossible (from 1 warden, ofc).

    If you want to add our Light damage DoTs to the equation, you've undershot that number, however.
    Brink of Victory or maddening strike (same dot, cannot have both): 383 light dmg every 4 seconds
    Surety of Death: 510 light damage every 4 seconds (can be improved by 10% via legacy)
    Desolation: 560 light damage every 4 seconds. 3 Target Max AoE 6.2m range, applies a removable fear proc (25% for 2s fear every 4 seconds, this is what pulls spiders out of TDS, for endless QQ)
    All of these can be used in all 3 stances (besides the maddenning strike version of the first), but even in assailment require the target to be in melee range to execute the gambit.

    If it makes you feel better, we're the only class (i think) that has no source of wound/disease/poison/fear removal besides pots, so everyone else (freepside) has that over us...

    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    Desolates, an R7 warden on my server, seems to my untrained eyes to be exactly what you have described: a glass cannon solo warden.

    I've had good, close fights with him on my BA, but I actually have grown to prefer my R5 warg instead: oh man, dat DPS output. 8D
    You're just smitten with playing a melee class.

    I've had some great 1v1s with you, but I think you aren't seeing things apples to apples as i don't think your warg has full aud. Next time you swap to say hi though, inspect me, I'm never anonymous.

    When we had 1v1s on your BA (pre-U10) I had a decent build and was doing all 1v1s/most non-zerg random fights without heals or reflects, something a lot of people either don't want to give up (many spear wardens are quite willing to give up heals, ./salute), or aren't accepting how powerful they are. I do plenty of PvE, and with U10 i got my hands on a lot of very nice agi gear, along with 1st agers. All that coupled with BFPs (which even at my relatively low rank, are quite significant) made it take an hour in U10 to decide I either had to completely change things up, or quit PvP on my warden.

    I just made this post in the warden forums where someone asked about spear builds. The second pic is what i have been wearing for all but the first ~1000 renown I've made since U10 (which isn't really that much, but w/e) and every time I've seen you out there:

    Quote Originally Posted by me, elsewhere
    The relatively complete build I would sport in the moors (I'm not really prioritizing finishing it at all though):


    What I've been using, and will continue to use for the foreseeable future:


    I'm having a lot of fun out there right now.
    If you aren't familiar with freep itemization, that shield is largely cosmetic (and looks really cool to boot).

    Definitely not a glass cannon build. Morale is (intentionally) low for a class that gets 5 morale per vit, but obviously I've given up nearly half my physical mastery (and a huge weapon damage gap). The few times I've parsed before and after, My damage is barely over half of what it was in U9 and prior, unless we have all 4 OPs. Tact mit in both builds is around 47.5-48%, so i'm not at all 'squishy', so to speak.

    I'm having a lot of fun now, I'm still not using reflects, but am no longer embarrassed at using restoration/conviction (the only 2 warden heals in recklessness, i don't stance dance, unless its to ranged dps on someone who kites). With this little damage I'm sure some reavers are very pissed to fight me, as the fights can go on longer than I'd like, and in practice probably seems like fighting a more offensive shield warden.

    Really, its just nice to be able to use almost all my class's skills in 1v1s.

    Glass cannon? no. Solo? yes.
    Last edited by spelunker; Mar 29 2013 at 11:48 PM.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Stuff and nonsense.
    So lemme get this straight. You've typically built for survivability, but pre-U10, you used to have almost twice as much DPS and made up for it by not self-healing/using reflect damage. Post-update, you do less damage but now use a couple self-heals, so the net result is the fights are still fun?

    You, sir, are a rare breed.

    Marry me.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    So lemme get this straight. You've typically built for survivability, but pre-U10, you used to have almost twice as much DPS and made up for it by not self-healing/using reflect damage. Post-update, you do less damage but now use a couple self-heals, so the net result is the fights are still fun?

    You, sir, are a rare breed.

    Marry me.
    My goal was to maximize dps while having mitigations above 45%: raw morale, avoidances, etc be damned when I itemize.

    You should have seen my RoI build on my old warden, 28k phys mastery, ~20% crit, 9k morale, no Aud. I was hitting harder than the hunters/champs/burgs back then. Creeps hit so softly back then too...
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  13. #13

    Update

    New record has been set at 1248 every 4s for 40 entire seconds (His medium bleeds tick for 938; same duration). Unacceptable that there is absolutely nothing I can do but let these bleeds kill me from around 7k health. This particular warden is only rank 8, so there's a LOT of room for those bleeds to grow even more. He is also not a glass cannon - he has quite high suvivability even when 4-5 creeps are on him at once.
    Last edited by DrKeyLogger; Mar 31 2013 at 06:19 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrKeyLogger View Post
    New record has been set at 1248 every 4s for 40 entire seconds (His medium bleeds tick for 938; same duration). Unacceptable that there is absolutely nothing I can do but let these bleeds kill me from around 7k health. This particular warden is only rank 8, so there's a LOT of room for those bleeds to grow even more. He is also not a glass cannon - he has quite high suvivability even when 4-5 creeps are on him at once.
    Shoot us a name.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DrKeyLogger View Post
    New record has been set at 1248 every 4s for 40 entire seconds (His medium bleeds tick for 938; same duration). Unacceptable that there is absolutely nothing I can do but let these bleeds kill me from around 7k health. This particular warden is only rank 8, so there's a LOT of room for those bleeds to grow even more. He is also not a glass cannon - he has quite high suvivability even when 4-5 creeps are on him at once.
    What were OPs at? 40s on the bleed means they were running a minimum of 2 pve armour pieces, and if they've taken that step, they are likely running 2 more pieces for increased bleed damage as well. Basic concept being, running 4 pve pieces, stacking the 3 bleeds, then swapping to full aud (or pve tank armour) and running self-defense gambits while the bleeds tick off.

    Try changing your range a LOT while fighting the warden. Make them think things will be at range, and the instant they swap to ranged stance, come back in, get a few hits in and the instant they swap stances again, go back to range. this will greatly slow their gambit building and keep them out of any semblance of a normal rotation.

    You have a buttload of CC at your disposal, learning to time its use to even further keep them out of rhythm and from getting set up in a stance if the way to winning. If you're going to use TC, do it starting when at range, thats where the big hitting skills come from, and is your best chance to reflect a big hit before they recognize you've used it.

    I don't play a spider (competently), but thats what I'd do if I wanted to beat a warden, and quite frankly your class is easily the one in the best position to beat a warden.

    As far as the bleed damage per tick: 1250 for big bleed isn't THAT high, especially in the moors with OP buffs. (for reference, in PvE I can get to ~1490/tick, and 2 OPs is pretty equal to the amount of mastery I lose in moors gear)
    Last edited by spelunker; Mar 31 2013 at 08:41 PM.
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  16. #16
    what can make problems for warden:

    -Ba in skirmisher stance who know that if he kites, and keep ~5m distance from wardn he will win as warden cannot ifre off gambits

    -Ba steadfast barrage can make painful moments as cannot B/P/E-ed / resisted, annd most sadly they can shout trough walls with this skill XD

    -Stuns, disarms, and silences

    -Warg sahdow stance is killing the shield wardens as it eats trough the b/p/e

    -Sprinting warg... yes i seen this can be lethal, if preformed well.. i mean if warg is really fast and hits u always form behind... i think this dont needs any more explantation.

    -Spider's catch prey "stance" consumes all of our b/p/e and gives them very warden like b/P/e + they can begin with this , then daze us and wait till it tiers up, + u cannot really escape before a spiider wh has +10% passive runspeed, 40m range daze, and 50%slow (to dispelll the debuff from yourslef and the buff from the spidy, as it has max range)


    What makes wardens happy:

    - Predictible stuns
    -Spiders latent poison
    -If they spotted a warg preparing to stun em
    As both of these cause stun During Defiant challange animation, what a clever warden will use to reset the cd of the skill!!! so if u see flaming spear over his head dont stun him and dont use latent poison

    -Lot people in 1 group:
    Warden can leech surprising ammount of max morale... and if a big group of creeps not pots his morale leeches / not all of them attacking the warden (like some melee missed the direction and not hitting the warden constantly) then he will gain a lot morale!

    -Lot of small damaging attacks - as this can be reflected very effectively back to the enemy....

    I dont mentioned warden vs. defiler & warden vs. warleader duels as they tend to be last till eterity (or till somone get bored and goes away)

    I think wardens are op coz most creep know nothing about the class..

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    Desolates, an R7 warden on my server, seems to my untrained eyes to be exactly what you have described: a glass cannon solo warden.

    I've had good, close fights with him on my BA, but I actually have grown to prefer my R5 warg instead: oh man, dat DPS output. 8D
    dunno what spear-warden is, I'm fist!

    but yeah, 2 wargs today were traited for full dps, I'm too used to getting jumped by flayar wargs I just kept attacking my target. 5s later I was down to half moral and scrambling to get off heals. both individualy mauled me at times, jumping me just like a hunter, makeing me feel like one too.

    I have 9k moral and pritty much the definition of "glass canon" lately xD many dps creeps with balls to fight back do so very well, reavers for example can destory me currently.

    but the amount of QQ hurled my way for OP 1k dots is amazing. but i just shrug it off lately...
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Leri927 View Post
    - Predictible stuns
    -Spiders latent poison
    -If they spotted a warg preparing to stun em
    As both of these cause stun During Defiant challange animation, what a clever warden will use to reset the cd of the skill!!! so if u see flaming spear over his head dont stun him and dont use latent poison

    I dont mentioned warden vs. defiler & warden vs. warleader duels as they tend to be last till eterity (or till somone get bored and goes away)
    Thats whats called taking advantage of whats quite clearly a fault in the skills mechanism and fairly exploitative in nature.

    I think wardens are op coz most creep know nothing about the class..
    Wardens are OP. That most creeps know nothing about the class just makes it even worse at times.


    Edit: a competent reaver should absolutely crush a 'glass cannon' built warden, btw.
    Last edited by spelunker; Mar 31 2013 at 08:56 PM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Wardens are OP. That most creeps know nothing about the class just makes it even worse at times.
    If we are so OP or the statue of OPness then plz tell me why i simply not able to beat my brothers r8 spider with any setup i have (self heals, bleeds, stance dance.. everything + all outposts). If enemy knows the warden + can dps while kiting and change his distnace as we switch stances we really not have much chance + give spider cc + catch prey to this... and that is a deadly cocktail. To be hones it is very op against melee freeps, not less op than warden (till he not uses the latent poison)

    and about exploitable nature... this cd reset can compared to burg skill : Find footing.... but still warden can be stunned, just dont do it in that 2 sec when u see the ominous animation.. is it really that hard???? (and i think thiis feature was added coz some bossses like gashnauz annno in foundry tended to rip off our survivl skill as if it was interrupt during the animation it got cd + we not get buff or force taunt)

    but really what is more op WARDEN or WEAVER?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leri927 View Post
    but really what is more op WARDEN or WEAVER?
    Warden by far.

    The grace period just make this trouble even worst.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Leri927 View Post
    If we are so OP or the statue of OPness then plz tell me why i simply not able to beat my brothers r8 spider with any setup i have (self heals, bleeds, stance dance.. everything + all outposts). If enemy knows the warden + can dps while kiting and change his distnace as we switch stances we really not have much chance + give spider cc + catch prey to this... and that is a deadly cocktail. To be hones it is very op against melee freeps, not less op than warden (till he not uses the latent poison)

    and about exploitable nature... this cd reset can compared to burg skill : Find footing.... but still warden can be stunned, just dont do it in that 2 sec when u see the ominous animation.. is it really that hard???? (and i think thiis feature was added coz some bossses like gashnauz annno in foundry tended to rip off our survivl skill as if it was interrupt during the animation it got cd + we not get buff or force taunt)

    but really what is more op WARDEN or WEAVER?
    I'd love to fight your brothers spider. I've yet to fight a spider I don't think I could beat, without determination if I were doing everything I could (cooldowns not included). I'm not saying I guaranteeing I'd beat him, but none I've fought have executed a strat I don't think I could compensate for, so I'd really love to fight one who's truly figured a warden out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rashy View Post
    Warden by far.

    The grace period just make this trouble even worst.
    Agreed on the first point

    there really isn't that much a warden can take advantage of in terms of the grace period, they're going to get at most 2-3k phys mastery (at the loss of something else, btw), but thats less than an OP buff
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I've yet to fight a spider I don't think I could beat, without determination if I were doing everything I could (cooldowns not included).

    none I've fought have executed a strat I don't think I could compensate for, so I'd really love to fight one who's truly figured a warden out.
    I suppose this is not limiting the ability to use restoration or conviction in recklessness? Pots maybe?

    There's certainly a number of weavers on Elendilmir that without using consumables or self healing (I gimp myself by not traiting perseverance) I could not beat just with the current mechanics of each class. It's just in my view I would struggle to see how you could fight those weavers in your TA build, despite having perseverance without any trouble.
    Unless of course I am completely underestimating the wardens self healing ability.


    Audacity as a double-padding makes it very very rare for bleeds to crit as high as some are claiming, especially with the warden in question maintaining ergo survivability versus 4 or 5 creeps.
    Last edited by Untg99; Mar 31 2013 at 10:29 PM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    26
    Yes spear wardens are very powerful in moors. I almost always go pure glass cannon now (exact same build as I do when dpsing in pve which lands me ~7k morale there but ~8k with bfp) now my highest bleed tooltip with this was around 1600 (no screenies atm) with all 4 OPs and a pocket captain. However in this same build when OPs were balanced a BA (I think it was a rank 12 one) hit me for 4.7k VT and then a ~4k revenge so it isn't like a warden can do this while remaining survivable unless they have a pocket healer or two (which I have done when outnumbered and I will admit is INCREDIBLY overpowered). However in my opinion a glass cannon warden though it will seem OP if you are suddenly ambushed at 40m and have two huge bleeds on you before you get up is pretty balanced compared to some other classes (though I will admit it could use a little toning down in moors).

    As far as the grace period once a warden switches over their gear its at most 2k mastery (I think I have 100 might in my dps build).

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    I suppose this is not limiting the ability to use restoration or conviction in recklessness? Pots maybe?

    There's certainly a number of weavers on Elendilmir that without using consumables or self healing (I gimp myself by not traiting perseverance) I could not beat just with the current mechanics of each class. It's just in my view I would struggle to see how you could fight those weavers in your TA build, despite having perseverance without any trouble.
    Unless of course I am completely underestimating the wardens self healing ability.


    Audacity as a double-padding makes it very very rare for bleeds to crit as high as some are claiming, especially with the warden in question maintaining ergo survivability versus 4 or 5 creeps.
    Not keeping self-heals up full time, but yes using them (with perseverance). I fought Ekki (considered one of the best weavers on the server) a few times in 1v1s last night and we had some very good fights. The happy medium I found was 1 restoration and 2 convictions over the course of the full fight gave us double KB type fights. I had 1 fight where I hadn't touched a heal and was around 1k with him at 7k well ahead, I was able to outheal his dps in reckless chaining 2 resto's and convictions. He wasn't using TC or burrow in any fights, if you were wondering. I think he'd have better luck moving in and out of melee range more often, but I don't see how He (or another weaver) could deal with the fact that my reckless heals (with 1 blue trait) were about even or slightly better than his dps output.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,874
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Not keeping self-heals up full time, but yes using them (with perseverance). I fought Ekki (considered one of the best weavers on the server) a few times in 1v1s last night and we had some very good fights. The happy medium I found was 1 restoration and 2 convictions over the course of the full fight gave us double KB type fights. I had 1 fight where I hadn't touched a heal and was around 1k with him at 7k well ahead, I was able to outheal his dps in reckless chaining 2 resto's and convictions. He wasn't using TC or burrow in any fights, if you were wondering. I think he'd have better luck moving in and out of melee range more often, but I don't see how He (or another weaver) could deal with the fact that my reckless heals (with 1 blue trait) were about even or slightly better than his dps output.
    Very interesting.

    I had thought it to be impossible to defeat decent weavers without self heals, although on observing a variety of kiting and weaving tactics used by massterchief, I thought it would have been possible. All my efforts on most weavers using that strategy seemed to work well, but there were some which it didn't seem to change much at all.

    Probably my first observation is standing in truth, perhaps in order for skill efficiency and more effective balancing I will have to look at an alternative way of gimping myself, perhaps not so unlike your third ager build.

 

 
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