We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121

    Might-only gear vs balanced. Or why i hate glass-canons.

    The reason to start this thread is that i am sick of rezzing fellow captains that should know better than to run around with only might gear and no mitigation whatsoever.

    We are going to compare real life numbers between the glass cannon Might focused builds out there against the classical Might>Critical>Vitality builds of U8 and U9.

    Captains are picking up those +38/75 Fate gear and dropping the old raw critical/vitality stuff we used before. And we will show that it is wrong. PERIOD.

    First, i will show the numbers with one of my best Might gear:
    2xEarring of the Necromancer's Tower +113 Might +184 Maximum Power +768 Critical Rating +384 Parry Rating
    Elf-forged Golden Pendant +150 Might +768 Physical Mastery Rating +970 Critical Defence
    Angmarim Lord's Bracelet +150 Might +23 Vitality +538 Critical Rating On every Harmful skill If in combat,10% chance to Apply to the caster: +113 Might
    Dulled Silver and Bronze Wristlet +150 Might +38 Vitality +75 Fate
    Sapphire Ring of the Tower Guard +150 Might +384 Tactical Mastery Rating +75 Fate
    Beremud's Signet Ring +150 Might +75 Vitality +1164 Finesse Rating
    Flask of Rancid Oil +150 Might +614 Critical Rating +15 Fate; On every Harmful skill If in combat,10% chance to Apply to the caster: +113 Might
    Combative Cloak of Eomer, boots and leggins from hytbold charge, head, shoulders, body and gloves from Hytbold Healer. ( armour set was actually used by the glass Captains i rezzed countless times)

    Might 2415 with war banner no food no IDOME. Fate at 646 and Vitality at 415. That's it : Captains are running around with more fate than vitality.
    This results in: 9952 critical, 8,1% devastating Critical chance, 31620 Phys Mastery for + 104% damage, 27883 tactical mastery for 46,6% outgoing healing rate.
    Shadows lament is doing 1547-2323 and Rallying Cry is healing for 923-1318.

    All looks great, until one notices that morale is at 6892, Phys mit at 14465 for 60,6% and tactical mitigation at an abysmal 5838 for a total reduction of 35,8%. Things would look even worst if instead of beremud's i had another "dps ring" to match. By bringing Physical mastery above 100% i had entered the diminished returns domain at the cost of Morale and Tactical mitigation. My criticals are nothing to write home about.

    Lets see what happens when i switch to old style Might>Critical>Vitality gear and leave the Fate gear behind.

    Keep earrings
    change necklace to vibrant necklace of eomer
    change dulled silver wristlet to Eternal Knight's Bracelet +75 Might +150 Vitality +59.4 in-Combat Power Regen
    change both rings to moors ring set
    change pocket to Illuminated Great River Book of Defence +95 Vitality +672 Critical Rating +681 Physical Mitigation+681 Tactical Mitigation
    Change cloak to crafted vitality cloak.
    Go back to Perseverance boots and leggings.

    Might goes down to 1679, fate to 481 and vitality goes up to 901.
    critical is at 9623 for 7,8% devastating chance
    Phys mastery is now at 23204 for 78.8%
    Tact mastery is at 20527 for 38.3% outgoing healing rate.
    That should hurt a lot my damage and heals, but the numbers show me;
    SL at 1280-1923
    RC at 882-1261.

    I lost 8.3% of Outgoing healing rate, but my RC are down by 4.4%.
    I lost 25.2% of damage increase, but my SL are down by only 17.3%.

    On the other hand, lets look at my mitigations:
    Phys:15432 for 62.4%
    Tactical: 10805 , 52.4%

    I gained 16.2% tactical mitigation, and my Morale now rests confortably at 9185, almost 33% more than the 6892 previoulsy.

    Outgoing Healing rates are overrated, a dead captain can not heal anyone. A captain can overheal using HoH, 2 perseverance + 4 hytbold healer without becoming a glass cannon in the process. We are not a DPS class and never will be. And while our heals increase with Might, they do not increase nearly as much as glass cannons think.
    Last edited by Nascephor; Mar 29 2013 at 07:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    While you do have a good point, you're not looking at the entire picture (and that amount of might in the glass cannon section is low, btw).

    The virtues can supply a fairly high amount of mitigations, so can the armor you choose, the relics you slot, as well as the title on your emblem.

    Also, 4 Hytbold Healer + 2 Perserverance is also an extremely good healing set, because of how the set bonuses work. 2 Perserverance isn't mandatory, and tends to generate a lot of agro that most captains don't know what to do with (this is where Withdrawal comes into play).

    But the real truth here:
    A) Generally speaking, the captain shouldn't have agro unless they are actively tanking. If they are the primary tank, then they definitely should not be min/maxing for high might (instead, they should be focused on mitigations and vitality).
    B) High mitigations, while useful, generally aren't needed. If the captain wants to run around with lower mits most of the time, they need to know which instances the mitigations are needed, so they can swap out gear appropriately.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    3,712
    The same could be said for any class not traiting for the role they're trying to fill.

    Any tank will be much less effective if geared for DPS--same with healers, LMs, Champ tanks. DPS Champs will be terrible if geared to tank.

    It's not a strange thing to dislike, not sure why it deserved a thread. Especially since most Captains do not end up tanking.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Rohan
    Posts
    876
    I guess it's a good thing that my cappy doesn't tank then.

    I'm currently built with about 2550 might (before IDOME, which I trade out for Oathbreaker's Shame for certain instances), 500ish vitality, and about 450ish fate. I'm not willing to drop any more fate because I'm guessing that the amount of ICPR that fate contributes is going to be adjusted somewhat downward with U11 (I believe one of the devs has stated that they're looking at fate and that they might have overpowered it a bit with U10). My tactical mitigation might be a bit low, but when I need to, I can switch out a virtue or two for some more tactical mitigation, and if I *really* need to, I can grab some extra vitality jewelry that I keep in my vault. I haven't really had any problems so far, but then I don't tank. I can't stand tanking on my cappy, which is why I have a warden

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    The same could be said for any class not traiting for the role they're trying to fill.

    Any tank will be much less effective if geared for DPS--same with healers, LMs, Champ tanks. DPS Champs will be terrible if geared to tank.

    It's not a strange thing to dislike, not sure why it deserved a thread. Especially since most Captains do not end up tanking.
    Exept, that the captain is a support mele class and he should stay in mele range.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    Exept, that the captain is a support mele class and he should stay in mele range.
    Same could be said about the burgs (and champs to a lesser extent), yet you don't see people telling them not to build as a glass cannon.

    Captains suck at holding agro without a decent yellow trait investment anyways - ignoring situations where RC spam kiting is possible.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Same could be said about the burgs (and champs to a lesser extent), yet you don't see people telling them not to build as a glass cannon.
    Because a dps is their only role(exept rare occasions), and everybody want them to do as max dps as posible. The captain role is a support. You buff, dps,heal, intercept damage, tank if needed. If i would see an add on a dps or a healer i would taunt it no doubt. A captain need more survivability then a pure dps class; basically you are managing a fight, you need to stay alive. And tbn, you will never see a pure glass cannon in a serious raid. At least they need to have a proper amount of tactical mititigation and hp. They also have deagro and some good saves.
    While i don't agree with TS on some points, he's right in general- balance is better then a glass cannon.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    Above mentioned numbers were with all 5 virtues providing tact and phys mitigations. Real life glass tanks are probably running with 10-20% less mitigations than on the example giving up tolerance for idealism, etc.


    Perhaps i should explain what kind of Captains Deaths i am talking about:
    -One shot by AoE.
    -Environmental damage after Mini falls.
    -Mobs ganging on Captain for 3s.
    -Boss ganging on Captain for 3s.
    -Spamming Cry of vengeance just to die before the rezzed char comes back.

    None of these deaths are entirely blame of the Tank, especially when you are knowing that you will take AoE damage anyway. Nothing worst than pug someone to farm an instance only to discover that he can't withstand a single hit from the boss or hold a mob on his own for a few seconds.

    People don't complain because they don't know better. We are talking about +30% higher morale pool for just 4.4% less overheals. "Captain's dead" is one of the worst sounds a group can hears during a fight, second only to "tank's dead" when the Captain is a glass Cannon.

    Burgs and champs run glass cannon among other things because they primarily lose damage output when leaving the glass tank ( although most Captains would agree that burgs could run around a little bit tougher) while the usual role of the Captain, support/healing is largely unaffected by a higher morale pool.

    Going Fate first, Vitality later is plainly wrong.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Above mentioned numbers were with all 5 virtues providing tact and phys mitigations. Real life glass tanks are probably running with 10-20% less mitigations than on the example giving up tolerance for idealism, etc.


    Perhaps i should explain what kind of Captains Deaths i am talking about:
    -One shot by AoE.
    -Environmental damage after Mini falls.
    -Mobs ganging on Captain for 3s.
    -Boss ganging on Captain for 3s.
    -Spamming Cry of vengeance just to die before the rezzed char comes back.

    None of these deaths are entirely blame of the Tank, especially when you are knowing that you will take AoE damage anyway. Nothing worst than pug someone to farm an instance only to discover that he can't withstand a single hit from the boss or hold a mob on his own for a few seconds.
    So what you're really saying is this:

    Our group doesn't have it together, so instead of looking at what's **REALLY** going wrong, we're just going to blame the captain, eh?

    Assuming the tank in question is a guardian or warden, there shouldn't BE any AE threat issues, and if there are, then that tank needs to learn to tank better. I don't know how good chank AE threat is (I assume it's fairly good), so I would assume that that also holds for them as well.

    While captains can do some off tanking, we don't have any form of forced taunt unless we:
    A) Slot 4 in LoM (which is not a very good idea for a raid build)
    or
    B) Slot Improved Routing Cry (Routing Cry forced taunt trait), which is downright dangerous when not tanking since the captain can also snag the boss, and end up dead.

    While we can off tank, champs are far better at it than we are.

    And if we do have threat, that's what Withdrawal is for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Going Fate first, Vitality later is plainly wrong.
    You only need about 500-600 Fate anyhow. It's not **that** difficult to hit that number, and can be done without sacrificing loads of vitality, and not having that fate gives the captain the same old power problems we have been facing since MoM.

    So really, what's worse, a dead captain, or a captain that's very tank like, but has no power? Either way, the captain's useless.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,907
    I think it's possible there are some Captains out there -- particularly alt Captains who only get rolled out to fill a raid slot -- who never really got the post-RoI memo about trait line changes. I can see some of them running in yellow line out of old habit and managing to pull unwanted aggro that way.

    That's about the only way I can see that happening, though. I tend to put out pretty respectable DPS and healing numbers in a raid, without really bothering to pick up Vitality gear, but I pretty much never get aggro unless something goes horribly wrong. And even when something does go horribly wrong, it's the main healer (or Hunter) who gets threat first.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Above mentioned numbers were with all 5 virtues providing tact and phys mitigations. Real life glass tanks are probably running with 10-20% less mitigations than on the example giving up tolerance for idealism, etc.


    Perhaps i should explain what kind of Captains Deaths i am talking about:
    -One shot by AoE.
    -Environmental damage after Mini falls.
    -Mobs ganging on Captain for 3s.
    -Boss ganging on Captain for 3s.
    -Spamming Cry of vengeance just to die before the rezzed char comes back.

    None of these deaths are entirely blame of the Tank, especially when you are knowing that you will take AoE damage anyway. Nothing worst than pug someone to farm an instance only to discover that he can't withstand a single hit from the boss or hold a mob on his own for a few seconds.
    One shot by AoE: Most of the time that's a lot more about positioning properly than adding a bit more mitigations.
    Mobs ganging on Captain: Highly depends on the situation, but the tank should generally have control of the mobs.
    Boss ganging on Captain: Tank is to blame for this 99% of the time.
    Spamming Cry of Vengeance: Spamming a skill with 30 minute cooldown is kinda stupid yes? Extra morale and mitigations won't make it any less stupid if you ask me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    People don't complain because they don't know better. We are talking about +30% higher morale pool for just 4.4% less overheals. "Captain's dead" is one of the worst sounds a group can hears during a fight, second only to "tank's dead" when the Captain is a glass Cannon.

    Burgs and champs run glass cannon among other things because they primarily lose damage output when leaving the glass tank ( although most Captains would agree that burgs could run around a little bit tougher) while the usual role of the Captain, support/healing is largely unaffected by a higher morale pool.
    Who is people?

    Even when the Captain is a glass tank, glass canon or whatever you feel like calling it, they still have 15s worth of immortality from Last Stand, and if that's not enough to rezz the fallen tank and get the group back on track, a wipe is in order.

    Morale and Mitigation won't ever be a substitute to understanding your class. Sure, sometimes you need more survivability, but a lot of the issues you stated in your post won't really be fixed through morale and mitigation only.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Going Fate first, Vitality later is plainly wrong.


    I'll remember that when I do T2CMs without any problems what so ever despite having 700 Fate and only 500 Vitality. ITS WRAAAOOOUUNG!!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    1,477
    Title's kinda throwing people off I think, what with calling certain builds "glass-tanks." We are talking about captains in a support capacity with relatively squishy builds right?

    I say bulk up if the fight has a mit check mechanic, go glass cannon if it does not. Pretty simple. If you know you'll be eating some AoE's from a boss, gear to overcome. More on that in a bit.

    My build's currently on Captain2/Calculations2 of this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Xc&usp=sharing
    Only kinda defensive choice I made in my current build is Shiny Wyrmfire Necklace of Defense over Iavasur--and I'm sorta on the fence about that. It's nice for moors and the proc is neato I guess; the mastery and crit loss are minimal. Honestly I think I'm wearing it because I wanted to have all 85 gear and less for its pros/cons. *shrug* I can't explain my irrationality there.

    DB crit is just capped with my red trait and legacy. If I acquire a Sapphire ring of Tower Guard and 2x earrings from Bells and swap back to 2x Setting of North instead of 1x and also put back on Iavasur, that'd cap me perfectly. Oh and Annuminas Captain Bracelet. I shouldn't hold my breathe there though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Same could be said about the burgs (and champs to a lesser extent), yet you don't see people telling them not to build as a glass cannon.
    Thats a valid observation for a lot of the end-game content. Ain't a big deal what your mits are in HV or Bells or GG or WP or SH or StH or Sambrog, etc. It's pretty faceroll. Anecdotes for Nascephor's sake: I've seen hunters tank T2 Water wraiths (one at a time) in Fornost after they pull from the poor, silenced tank. Once when the tank was trying to punish me for acting a fool, I've done that on my Warden while assailment dpsing in glass-cannon spec--basically hunter survivability (30%ish tact mit) with a teensy bit more health and more block and less evade. I was just fine until the tank decided he needed to aggro more and run to me so that I caught the AoE, at which point I ran away screaming. My point is, my Captain is more survivable than my Warden when the Warden is dpsing as a glass cannon due to his innately worse mits and not popping any self heals or avoid buffs so that the DPS would not--excuse the pun--just tank. If Rechart with 9-10k morale and 30% mits can handle aoe's from Fornost T2 Water Wraiths, then Argendauss sure ought to be able to without really trying to have defenses. And he does. Argendauss doesn't get smashed, he smashes with greathammer. Except when Shingrinder punts him off bridge. Then again, on Arg I got comparable morale and mits to Nascephor's balanced build without trying to be balanced, probably due to better gear. So that gear disparity right there might invalidate my argument that some content's too easy to worry about.

    On the other hand, sometimes you gotta have the mits. Almagnus, you pointed that out in point B of your first post, but I want to expound on that. I have absolutely had to bulk some raid group burgs and hunters up for certain fights and have been thanked afterwards for it (trying BfE T2 with Blood Rage for example). I identify with what Arabani's saying. Do you recall what T2 Durchest did to glass cannon burgs in U9? I've seen applications of The Boot to burgs' faces while corruptions are being removed or fire-lore is being reapplied just one-shot them, and there a LOT of little opportunities like that for The Boot to come at a bad time in the fight. They got one-shot because were glass cannon; ask Frisco, he was there. So sometimes there are mit checks in raids. That's counting T2 BfE too with the distributed damage, especially with Blood Rage's unavoidable damage buff. Now mind you we were just doing T2 and not off worrying about Reinforcements. Maybe folks like hunters won't be in range of the trolls' Distributed while trying T2C. IDK what the best dispositions are there.

    Luckily Captains get high phys mit in glass cannon mode, and both Durchest's Boot and the BfE trolls' Distributed are common damage.
    Last edited by Omen_Kaizer; Mar 28 2013 at 10:36 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000363f98/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Rechart, Warden
    [url="http://platemetaljacket.blogspot.com/"]Plate Metal Jacket[/url]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    Sorry if i had been less than polite while making my case. Please understand that my frustration is unabated after i see someone with "better gear" than me getting one-shotted while i can hold my own for quite a while.

    During the number crushing of the initial post my opinion on matter only became even more harsh. While there may be some ridiculous reasoning behind the logic of slashing 30% of your morale so that you can hit SL for 17% more, that morale slashing brings to table only 4.4% more heals.

    One of the glass cannon said, after the 5th death in a row to normal mobs in warg pens T2:
    - dude, i critted for 12k back there!
    ( me thinking- grats...)
    I do agree with all the posts that stated that each role and class must know what will happen during the instance, but truth is: people are too lazy to get out of their comfort zones. I do not run with tact mitigation gear 24x7. But i prefer to err on side of caution and get caught with "tanking" pocket, necklace and cloak during trash pulls than get one-shotted because i forgot to change gear before the harder fights.

    And let's not compare apples to oranges:

    -A champion doing 17% less damage hurts the fellowship more than a Captain doing 17% less damage.
    -If asked, most if not all group members would prefer the Captain to have 30% more morale than being healed by 4.4% more.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    But what you're describing here is a captain noob - there are noobs in every class, and they are most frequently encountered during PUGs. If the captain noob is going **SQUISH** left, right, and center while in a DPS traiting.... well, I doubt all the mitigations gear in the game is going to make a difference.

    Also, you're coming across as very mad, and not terribly knowledgeable about captains - maybe the best thing for you to do is (politely) point them to someone who can mentor them, or bow out of the group and save yourself the pain.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,203
    I agree with the OP to some degree, though the tone is a bit off-putting. An important Captain role is disaster recovery/wipe prevention, and you can't rez folks and do IHW or bubble if you are dead. I tend to never go full glass cannon (thread title is odd, folks don't "glass-tank" far as I can tell) myself, as I really really want to stay alive in case something goes south. For example, while BoE T1 isn't a very hard run, I've seen groups fail in inferno stage and a tough Capt can help recover things there. But have to say, running stuff like school/lib you could go in your skivvies and it would all be good. The last boss on the school, people were running away when he did his "big" AOE. I said no, don't bother. You can now stand there in it and all is just fine -- ability to ignore the intended mechanics seems to me to indicate a bad overshoot with the content nerfbat.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Arabani View Post
    Because a dps is their only role(exept rare occasions), and everybody want them to do as max dps as posible. The captain role is a support. You buff, dps,heal, intercept damage, tank if needed. If i would see an add on a dps or a healer i would taunt it no doubt. A captain need more survivability then a pure dps class; basically you are managing a fight, you need to stay alive. And tbn, you will never see a pure glass cannon in a serious raid. At least they need to have a proper amount of tactical mititigation and hp. They also have deagro and some good saves.
    While i don't agree with TS on some points, he's right in general- balance is better then a glass cannon.
    I do agree that captains need some survivability (heck, I'm a sword and boarder myself), but you're neglecting the fact that one of the captain's roles is to heal, and that might does contribute towards that end. Personally I've run around with multiple sets of gear for both survivability and dps/heals, and can say that in most situations, the survivability I give up is well worth the additional dps/healing.

    I like to treat vitality on the captain as a buffer in case things go seriously wrong. In situations where regular healers might get blown up, for example, I'm able to survive long enough to help stabilize the fight through in combat rezzes, healing or even off-tanking. But I never go into a fight expecting to need the extra survivability - stuff happens with the RNG, and I like to think of myself as the failsafe in those events.
    [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/28mns0o.jpg[/IMG]

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    I would heartly agree with most comments here and use a few of the suggestions:
    -make more use of my ignore list- living a low population server it currently has none because i couldn't afford losing gaming pals. perhaps i've been wrong.
    -apply tactic focus when deserved.
    -rezz people in inferno without blod of numenor traited.

    i would welcome any idea that allow me to vent my rage instead of posting comments in a judgmental view.
    Community comes first.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    3,712
    I don't think either of your examples--"Might-only" or "balanced" are very good. I aim somewhere in between. You can get survivability without sacrificing so much mastery.

    I kinda get what you're trying to say, but between the tone and the "no duh" factor, I can't get too worked up about it. Obviously, in situations like BfE PUGs, Captains don't need to be running War banner and neglecting mitigations for a bit more DPS unless people are bored and doing speed runs. I haven't seen many Captains trying, either.

    Captains have it rough in BfE--not doing as much DPS to heal through Revealing as other classes, not many low-cooldown self-preservation skills, and spending morale on WoC. But most encounters are not BfE.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    -rezz people in inferno without blod of numenor traited.
    I rarely run with that trait outside the 'Moors.... and use EfD and CoV, the latter with a bit of success since I am ready to throw a WoC on them (as well as ToN => RC if I have the morale to spare).

    Like Defiance, BoN isn't all that stellar of a trait. Yes, they're helpful when learning a raid, but after you've beaten it a couple off times, take off the training wheels.

    PS:
    Anyone have the Fry "Trolling or serious?" image handy.... think that post needs it.

    Edit:

    Surprised no one has mentioned the Knight's Platinum Stud from the Prancing Pony skirm cluster...
    150 Might, 75 Vitality ~400 Crit on the 85 version.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Mar 29 2013 at 02:56 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    Hi Almagnus1. The Knights Platinum stud is not on the example because i don't have one, but as i posted on the captain gear compendium thread, i am finally making a distinction between DPS gear and healing gear, in that DPS gear fancies might and healing gear fancies critical.

    So there's nothing wrong going with 150 might 75 vitality gear while pugging in lead the charge.
    And using vit+crit gear hurts yours heals much less than expected.

    Last night i went in a RAID that made my previous rants look normal situations: Fires of Smaug with 1 person that knew what was going one, the RAID leader and fellow Captain. too bad the captain gave terrible advice on my traits.

    To put it simple: hunters where falling right down and center; they couldn't take much fire damage, and with only one champion per group, the adds waves were picking up the rest quite easily. There, more than in battle for erebor, the ability to withstand a bit of punishment is a blessing for the group.

    But we had 2 hunters for each 6-man group, all with less than 7k morale after buffs. and no tactical mitigation to speak of, especially compared RKs and minis, that from the third try and beyond, where surviving much more.

  21. #21
    This is interesting thread and I understand OPs standpoint. However current content - 6 mans and 3 mans are so ridiculously easy that they actually support glass canon builds. It is just better to run there without any mitigations and smash some buttons. On other hand if you see captains dying in T2 raids, well that's just sad. I personally cannot imagine myself doing T2 raid in no mitigation build and I am honestly suprised that there are people who try this. In a raid it's not your job to be squishy and pretend to be champ.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Hi Almagnus1. The Knights Platinum stud is not on the example because i don't have one, but as i posted on the captain gear compendium thread, i am finally making a distinction between DPS gear and healing gear, in that DPS gear fancies might and healing gear fancies critical.
    For me, both might and crit are high desired, but the distinction comes down to what I'm focusing on for the build:
    Tactical Mastery => Healing
    Physical Mastery => DPS
    Might => Balanced

    Either way, I want my critical to be at least 20% base (so 4Red gives me 25+% melee crit chance), and after hitting that point. I shoot for enough fate to resolve power problems, then focus on vitality after that. I tend to put a lot of research and effort into figuring out the gear that I want to use, and design it well enough that morale is a non-issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Last night i went in a RAID that made my previous rants look normal situations: Fires of Smaug with 1 person that knew what was going one, the RAID leader and fellow Captain. too bad the captain gave terrible advice on my traits.

    To put it simple: hunters where falling right down and center; they couldn't take much fire damage, and with only one champion per group, the adds waves were picking up the rest quite easily. There, more than in battle for erebor, the ability to withstand a bit of punishment is a blessing for the group.

    But we had 2 hunters for each 6-man group, all with less than 7k morale after buffs. and no tactical mitigation to speak of, especially compared RKs and minis, that from the third try and beyond, where surviving much more.
    This is one of the reasons why PUG raiding can get very frustrating - you have some that are fully invested into bringing their A Game, while others just show up (and might as well be half drunk and 3/4 stoned). It's also why some kin raiding groups can be very demoralizing - not everyone is putting equal amount of time into preparations for the raids, so you have several weak links that is holding people back.

    I have been through both, and know the frustration you feel very well (for those wondering: the latter solved itself when the officers decided that they'd rather be in SWTOR than in LotRO).

    If you are in with a good group, and everyone is doing their part, the difference is night and day.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 01 2013 at 05:13 AM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload