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  1. #1

    Equipping Multiple Items with Same Proc Chance

    1) Suppose you equip two items, each of which has a chance to proc +X to a primary stat (e.g., will). I understand that if the "first" item procs and the buff goes up, you can't get a second buff from the "second item" while the first buff is up. In other words, you can't stack two of the same buffs. However, would it still be beneficial to equip both items to improve the overall proc chance? I.e., if each item has a 15% proc chance on use of a "harmful skill," then you get two bites at the apple, so the proc should happen and the buff should go up more often? Or do you only get one "roll" at the proc, so a second item with the same proc chance is a waste?

    2) Suppose you equip two items, each of which has a chance to proc a crit rating bonus, which stacks up to three times. If the first item procs and the buff goes up (tier 1), can the second item proc and raise the buff to tier 2? In other words, is equipping two items with crit rating bonus proc chance a valid strategy for keeping the buff at full potency?

  2. #2
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    afaik, the chances on multiple items will "stack". for all practical purposes, however, one such item ought to have little trouble keeping the buff up pretty much permanently once it procs as long as you stay in combat and are continuing to attack. caveats apply: if you have to stop attacking because of a reflect or other fight mechanic, or have to move out of range (mostly this would affect melee classes, but also in the case of things like fires of smaug when you're running around to levers), or are a class that gets less hits in (healers), you may find the buff dropping more often. procs that have cooldowns might also benefit from the additional chance of a second item (though i think the only one i've seen with a cd is the HoT from the ring upgrades, and since they are unique you couldn't have more than one, anyway)

    i'm less sure about #2, especially if the procs have different values. the higher value typically overwrites a lower one from what i understand, but what happens if its a stacking buff with different values? i assume it would tier AND overwrite, but i haven't confirmed that myself.

  3. #3
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    I'm still not 100% sure on how these procs all interact with one another, but here are my thoughts/findings so far:

    1) +stat proc - When wearing multiple pieces with a chance for a stat proc, not only will you *never* be able to have multiple buffs for multiple items, but you will also never see a lower value stat proc if you're wearing two (or more) items with procs of different values. For example, if you have both the Mooncandle ring and the Flask of Rancid Oil, you will never see the +113 might on the flask (your buff will only ever be the +122 might from the ring). I believe that if you have multiple items equipped with the exact same proc value, the chance to proc effectively stacks. What I'm not sure of is whether the proc percent chance of lower-value procs adds together with the chance of the higher-value proc, even though you will only ever get the higher-value buff.

    2) Crit proc - these all seem to have the same buff name and crit rating values per tier (regardless of item quality) so I think the percent chance probably just stacks, allowing you to keep the buff up more easily with multiple items equipped. Again, hard to test, especially since I don't have any toons with multiple pieces of crit proc gear.

    3) The HoT and Crit Defence procs seem to share a cooldown, so presumably having multiple would let you get the buff up quicker but you couldn't have multiple firing at the same time or back-to-back.

    In short, there seems to be value in having multiples equipped, but not a *ton* of value. You're probably better served with a slice of regular stats in most cases rather than stacking multiple procs of the same type.
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  4. #4
    My LM has the +122 will proc on the Rohan ring and the +113 will proc on the hardened barrow brie. From what I could see, on a hit each item independently rolls and if it procs, the proc will overwrite any existing buff. I have seen the +122 will buff with (say) ten seconds remaining be replaced by the +113 buff with a new clock. So although I sometimes lose 9 will from the "lesser" proc, the buff is constantly refreshing, thus providing a high degree of up time. This is particularly useful for LMs because our attacks have long inductions and animation delays/roots, so we are not landing hits as often (plus even in DPS mode we are often pausing to debuff, heal, etc.). I suppose that a class that lands hits more quickly would get enough procs from just one item to achieve an equal amount of up-time, in which case, having just one item with the largest buff would be the way to go.

    I don't have two items that proc a crit rating buff, so I'm not able to test for the effects of two items. I'm concerned, though, that a proc from a second item could overwrite an existing buff from the first item (i.e., existing Tier 3 buff replaced with a Tier 1 buff with a new clock). Hopefully that's not the case.
    85 GUARD * 85 LM * 85 BURG * 75 HUNTER * 51 MINI * (and so on...)

  5. #5
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    Can someone please define "Proc".

    This term seems to have come into use with Update 9 (or maybe 8 and I missed it), but I haven't seen it defined.

    I do not know what "Proc" is an abbreviation for, or if it is a word in its own right with some mysterious meaning.

    I believe it only exists on "Raid level gear" (i.e. drops), but haven't really looked widely.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    Can someone please define "Proc".
    It is a very old MMO term that was commonly used in EverQuest. Proc is short for spec_proc (special procedure). Basically what EverQuest did is attach a section of code called a special procedure as one of attributes of item. Every time the item was used the code was run to see if a bonus effect would occur. An item was said to proc when the bonus effect fired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raph Koster
    Short for spec_proc (special procedure), which is a bit of code triggered to cover a special case that the default code doesn’t handle.

    In the older muds there was almost no variation between what a given object could do. For example all weapons used the weapon type, then you could specify damage type (was it a sword or a mace), damage ranges, and so on.

    To get the weapon to do anything special, you had limited choices. Depending on the architecture, you could attach a spell to be cast, or could attach a script if the code supported it. In the codebases that Brad & co. played, the devs could not script, so the codebase allowed a pointer to a special hardcoded procedure to be entered in the weapon data.

    “Proc” is almost entirely EQ slang… Even in the muds, it wasn’t that widely used because only some codebases used the term. It took EQ publicizing the inherited term to make it common knowledge.
    If you are curious as to who and what Raph Koster has done over the years you can search on the web.
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  7. #7
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    I'm curious how the new healing proc rings fit into this equation. For each single-target heal, they give a 10% chance of proc'ing a ~900 morale full-fellowship heal, but it's on a 30s cooldown. There are two of these rings available, and also, the Hat of the Lonely Mountain has the same proc. So if I equip all three of these, can I get as many as three of these group heals every 30s? Or are they gimped in some way, for example, would all three share the same cooldown?
    Thiranigor (CPT) - Alyshia (CHN) - Menthol (GRD) - Whandall (BRG) - Thangoril (RK) - Tinudalia (HNT) - Ederoth (HNT)
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    If you are curious as to who and what Raph Koster has done over the years you can search on the web.
    Thanks for the info, quote, and pointer to Koster. Very informative.

    Of course, now one wonders "who" (i.e. which new-hire) precipitated the change in LOTRO item descriptions.
    And does that change represent simply a change in nomenclature, or an actual change in the Game Engine!
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  9. #9
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    It's not just a "cosmetic" change. A number of new items have these effects in lieu of stats. So, instead of a ring with 5 vitality and 5 might, you could get a ring with 5 vitality and a 10% chance to give you a +10 might buff that lasts 20 seconds when you hit a mob.

    The way Turbine has "weighted" these proc effects (i.e. how much of an item's "stat budget" they use) makes some of them especially attractive, since +stat buffs and the like can sometimes be kept up indefinitely during combat, essentially making a piece of gear with a proc potentially a lot better than similar gear with no proc, just raw stats.

    I haven't been playing this game since launch, but I know there were at least a few proc effects in the game at least since Moria. There was gear that had a chance to heal the wearer when you took damage, gear that had a chance to reflect damage, gear that had a chance to negate damage, gear that had a chance to reflect debuffs to attackers (like reduced devastate magnitude) and gear that had a chance to give you a buff to devastate magnitude when you take damage.

    There were very few pieces of gear with effects like these in RoI and the early stages of RoR, but starting in U10 they've made a comeback with new proc effects. I like this a lot as it has added a lot more flavor to LotRO's itemization.
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  10. #10
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    Sounds like a lot of personal testing is in order, since 1 person says that you'll never see the lower buff, and another says they've seen the lower buff overwrite the higher before its duration is up.

    Boo.

    Lots of healing for me, too, to see if the healer hat and ring share a cooldown.
    [color=red]Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...[/color]

 

 

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