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  1. #1

    Cloak of the Fornost Captain does not do what it says it does

    I got it then i tested it.


    This is how i bugged it:

    Cloak of the Fornost Captain has a proc that says "On every Heal skill 15% chance to apply to the caster: +10% outgoing healing modifier".
    I have tested this item now and i can say with almost absolute certainty that it does not trigger with any of the melee healings skills (Inspire and Valiant strike) nor with two of the vocal healing skills (Rallying Cry and traited Muster Courage).
    I was testing this solo, with pet and grouped with other players.
    This is very bad because it leaves captain with only one healing skill (Words of Courage) to proc the bonus on their Class' gold cloak.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pero_the_Cappy View Post
    I got it then i tested it.


    This is how i bugged it:

    Cloak of the Fornost Captain has a proc that says "On every Heal skill 15% chance to apply to the caster: +10% outgoing healing modifier".
    I have tested this item now and i can say with almost absolute certainty that it does not trigger with any of the melee healings skills (Inspire and Valiant strike) nor with two of the vocal healing skills (Rallying Cry and traited Muster Courage).
    I was testing this solo, with pet and grouped with other players.
    This is very bad because it leaves captain with only one healing skill (Words of Courage) to proc the bonus on their Class' gold cloak.
    It could be that way by design to help aid us during emergencies. Normally I don't find spamming Words of Courage necessary (if it was I wouldn't play this class) - but I can still see it being useful for those times you have a hunter or DPS champion who wants to tank - or a warden who forgets to get out of their dps gear.

    The bonus could also bring more value to keeping Words of Courage at least active depending on how often and how long the proc is. I would have to use it to see for sure though. A 15% chance is pretty low, and it wouldn't be worth it to me to have to spam Words of Courage all of the time to maintain it. If the buff could be maintained just from casual use though, I would still really like it.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Mar 24 2013 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Sounds like they just copied and pasted the mechanic from the erebor set.
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  4. #4
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    Yeah I've noticed the cloak is a couple degrees of broken, seeing as it doesn't proc with Inspire and VS. I'd bugged that. I didn't realize RC was the same way though. Good find.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    It could be that way by design to help aid us during emergencies. Normally I don't find spamming Words of Courage necessary (if it was I wouldn't play this class) - but I can still see it being useful for those times you have a hunter or DPS champion who wants to tank - or a warden who forgets to get out of their dps gear.

    The bonus could also bring more value to keeping Words of Courage at least active depending on how often and how long the proc is. I would have to use it to see for sure though. A 15% chance is pretty low, and it wouldn't be worth it to me to have to spam Words of Courage all of the time to maintain it. If the buff could be maintained just from casual use though, I would still really like it.
    Dude, you sound like some sort of apologist for this broken design, or maybe playing devil's advocate. Either way, that's no use to captains needing to fix a broken gold item.

    And it is broken, and in no way is WoC supposed to be something other than what the text says. If the bonus says it procs on heal skills, but it only procs on Words of Courage, it's broken. It's not maybe "that way by design to help aid us during emergencies." Just broken. The purple and teal Fornost Water cloaks which this cloak was based on don't say they proc on Words of Courage, they say they proc on heals. With the current trend of procs this gold oughta be no different.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Yeah I've noticed the cloak is a couple degrees of broken, seeing as it doesn't proc with Inspire and VS. I'd bugged that. I didn't realize RC was the same way though. Good find.
    I am not absolutely sure on RC as i did about 35 of them only hitting a dummy while having a pet out (testing WoC part on him) and proc never followed or refreshed on RC.


    This thing is bad and needs to be discussed and fixed before 10.1 because might heal proc rings come then according to the latest dev chat. And they could have the same problem.
    But cloak needs to be fixed too.
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  6. #6
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    There's a chance it might be working like the helm that drops from Smaug/gold minstrel helm which as far as I can tell (though I don't know if it's actually stated or it was just determined to be how it was acting) was that it was only triggering on targeted heals. That would explain why the cloak was only working for Words of Courage (which is targeted at a single person) but not Rallying Cry (AoE heal, has no target), Inspire (technically only has one target for the heal, but that's not the target of the skill), and VS (a combination of the two). I'd imagine Muster Courage is working similar to Inspire: while the heal is only targeted at one person, the actual skill is an AoE.

    If this is the case, it definitely either need to be changed to proc correctly on all heals (or at the very least, add Rallying Cry in) or the chance or magnitude need to be changed to reflect the fact that only one skill triggers it. Obviously I'd prefer the first one.

    There actually is a pretty easy way to test this, if any of you have a minstrel. There's a cloak that drops out of water wing that is essentially the same thing as the cappy gold cloak, but will-based (and obviously it's a teal). If a mini equips that and starts throwing around AoE heals and doesn't get the proc to trigger, I think we found the problem. Harmony Coda should be a good way to test the "heal that's generated by an attack on an opponent" thing. Noble Cause + Herald's Strike may also be a good way but I'm not quite sure how the morale heal on that thing works compared to Inspire or VS.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Dude, you sound like some sort of apologist for this broken design, or maybe playing devil's advocate. Either way, that's no use to captains needing to fix a broken gold item.

    And it is broken, and in no way is WoC supposed to be something other than what the text says. If the bonus says it procs on heal skills, but it only procs on Words of Courage, it's broken. It's not maybe "that way by design to help aid us during emergencies." Just broken. The purple and teal Fornost Water cloaks which this cloak was based on don't say they proc on Words of Courage, they say they proc on heals. With the current trend of procs this gold oughta be no different.
    Other armor bonuses have worked similar to this and added buffs only when Words of Courage are applied. The Minestaid set bonus for example only worked with Words of Courage. So that's why I said I do think there is a good chance this was intended, but I don't know for sure.

    I was just saying I thought the bonus is pretty decent even if its working as intended. Not great but decent. I would like to see it apply to all heal abilities too, but that would make this cloak extremely good even by gold standards in my opinion. And I was mostly just brainstorming anyway - so sorry if you took offense
    Last edited by Jeremi; Mar 24 2013 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    Other armor bonuses have worked similar to this and added buffs only when Words of Courage are applied. The Minestaid set bonus for example only worked with Words of Courage. So that's why I said I do think there is a good chance this was intended, but I don't know for sure.
    "Words of Courage applies a incoming heal buff (Stacks 3 times)"

    "On every heal skill, 15% chance to apply to the caster: +10% Outgoing healing."

    Menestaid's tooltip clarifies that the inc healing buff is only applied with WoC

    Golden cloak says it should proc on every heal.

    The cloak effect or it's tooltip needs to be fixed.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rashy View Post
    "Words of Courage applies a incoming heal buff (Stacks 3 times)"

    "On every heal skill, 15% chance to apply to the caster: +10% Outgoing healing."

    Menestaid's tooltip clarifies that the inc healing buff is only applied with WoC

    Golden cloak says it should proc on every heal.

    The cloak effect or it's tooltip needs to be fixed.
    Yeah the tool tip could read wrong, but that's nothing new for this game. And that's what I was eluding to anyway, that it could just be a misprint on the tool trip instead of the actual cloak's effect not working properly.

    With the amount of healing Captains put out over a wide range of targets near constantly, we could easily keep up that 10% increase to all out-going healing if it applied to all our heals, and that's an extremely nice bonus for a single item to have - one that far outweighs the bonuses I have seen on our other gold items. That is why I lean toward it being just a typo on the tool tip. Trust me, this is one instance where I hope I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Mar 24 2013 at 04:35 PM.

  10. #10
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    The one decent new gold item for Captain and it doesn't even work properly, wonderful.

    I'm not going to play the guessing game and figure out what should be intended. Given how rare this stuff is, and even in general, I expect items to do what they say they do.
    Last edited by Beastnas; Mar 25 2013 at 01:43 AM.
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  11. #11
    Just refreshing this with small hope it gets fixed tomorrow.

    I hope the new heal proc rings will not have the same flaw.
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  12. #12
    The new ring procs on single target heals according to the tooltip. Maybe that's what the tooltip on the cloak should say. Does anyone know if it works with inspire? That's a single target heal if you don't have fellowship brother or a capstone traited.

  13. #13
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Yeaa, isn't exactly working as intended

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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Yeaa, isn't exactly working as intended
    Thank you for the clarification, that is good to hear
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Yeaa, isn't exactly working as intended
    Was it exactly working as intended when you tested it during development?

  16. #16
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    I have to mention that I'm rather concerned about what its thought captains should be doing. With the Greater Erebor Healers WoC proc bonus and then Wyrmfire Mender's Ring of Rohan only working on single target heals...so WoC typically and then the Cloak of the Fornost Captain with its ineffectiveness/incorrect tooltip so it only works with WoC.

    I feel like I'm being encouraged to buff up then spam WoC. I don't know a single cappie who heals this way and I'm disappointed that we're encouraged to spam one skill in the hope of getting one tasty buff or another.

    Apologies for the kinda/kinda-not on topicness.
    Last edited by Maendae; Apr 05 2013 at 08:41 AM. Reason: I'm ill and it just didn't quite make sense first time round

  17. #17
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    What is the intended functionality?
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    Do? It doesn't DO anything. That's the beauty of it!

    /meme

    I think the main purpose of the new items is to get people to log in and grind, rather than get any real use out of it when it drops on the 147th mind-numbing run of Fornost. Personally, I play and log in just as if these gold items don't exist, they're so rare (for some people...common for others). Sadly, I find it more soothing to ignore RockX's hard work than to get irritated at the miniscule drop rate and certain people getting 2 or 3 of the same gold piece and vendoring them while I've never seen one in hundreds of runs. In fact, finding out that the items are broken makes it even easier for me to pretend they don't exist.

    Thanks, RockX for your well-intentioned work. I hope you find whatever dev out there is in charge of figuring out how to actually distribute your creations, and them whap him in the crotch with your nerf bat.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Do? It doesn't DO anything. That's the beauty of it!

    /meme

    I think the main purpose of the new items is to get people to log in and grind, rather than get any real use out of it when it drops on the 147th mind-numbing run of Fornost. Personally, I play and log in just as if these gold items don't exist, they're so rare (for some people...common for others). Sadly, I find it more soothing to ignore RockX's hard work than to get irritated at the miniscule drop rate and certain people getting 2 or 3 of the same gold piece and vendoring them while I've never seen one in hundreds of runs. In fact, finding out that the items are broken makes it even easier for me to pretend they don't exist.

    Thanks, RockX for your well-intentioned work. I hope you find whatever dev out there is in charge of figuring out how to actually distribute your creations, and them whap him in the crotch with your nerf bat.
    Or his Nerf Gun. Vera, if I remember correctly.
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  20. #20
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    The whole problem here with the Wyrmfire ring and the cloak in question boils down to how Captain heals (aside from Words of Courage) function. The existing versions of the proc effects which trigger off "healing" or "single-target healing" can't properly work with the Captain's healing method of whacking your opponent in the face -- which, as we all know, is THE BEST WAY TO HEAL EVAR.

    I'm hooking up new versions of the procs on the Wyrmfire ring and the Captain cloak which function based off Captain-specific heals. Thanks for the thread!

    As an aside, TinDragon is correct. My Nerf gun's name is Vera.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    The whole problem here with the Wyrmfire ring and the cloak in question boils down to how Captain heals (aside from Words of Courage) function. The existing versions of the proc effects which trigger off "healing" or "single-target healing" can't properly work with the Captain's healing method of whacking your opponent in the face -- which, as we all know, is THE BEST WAY TO HEAL EVAR.

    I'm hooking up new versions of the procs on the Wyrmfire ring and the Captain cloak which function based off Captain-specific heals. Thanks for the thread!

    As an aside, TinDragon is correct. My Nerf gun's name is Vera.
    Further proof that RockX truly Rocks!
    Nice to see we're in good hands as Captains regardless of whether or not there's some bugginess to work through.
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  22. #22
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    Well, that moved my interest from "not going to get it" to "going to set aside some wyrmfires until someone else tests how much of an effect it has".
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    I'm hooking up new versions of the procs on the Wyrmfire ring and the Captain cloak which function based off Captain-specific heals. Thanks for the thread!
    Thanks! *starts saving up wyrmfires again*

    (And yes, hitting stuff in the face is definitely the best way to heal evar *don't try this at home, kids!*)
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    The whole problem here with the Wyrmfire ring and the cloak in question boils down to how Captain heals (aside from Words of Courage) function. The existing versions of the proc effects which trigger off "healing" or "single-target healing" can't properly work with the Captain's healing method of whacking your opponent in the face -- which, as we all know, is THE BEST WAY TO HEAL EVAR.

    I'm hooking up new versions of the procs on the Wyrmfire ring and the Captain cloak which function based off Captain-specific heals. Thanks for the thread!

    As an aside, TinDragon is correct. My Nerf gun's name is Vera.
    That's what I figured--every skill seems to get sorted into a certain category. When I see something, for example, that procs on a Minstrel heal skill, I automatically assume that it will proc on a skill specifically listed under the Healing and Motivation subset of your skill list, and not any skill which creates a heal, which is what the item description suggests. In general, I'm very wary of item descriptions, because they are either way better than advertised, or too good to be true.

    Hopefully making a Captain item that procs on Captain-specific skills won't be out of out technical capabilities, even if I'll never have one. It'd be a shame if they stopped trying to make cool stuff altogether.
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  25. #25
    RockX, ty for listening to us and acknowledging the captain healing procs are not really fully attuned with captain skills and playstyle.
    I hope for a change in the next smaller update or at least u11.
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