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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    103

    Different sort of client crash

    As I said in other threads, I had had lots of the memory leak crashes where memory utilization of the LOTRO client when north of 3.5GB just prior to the client exiting and getting a dump. I turned down my graphics to Medium and those seem to be completely gone now.

    But the last couple of days I've had two crashes that were different. All of a sudden the UI disappears off the screen - all that's left is my character and the scenery (as if you had done a F12 to hide the UI) and the cursor turns into a spinning beachball. I can get to other things on the Mac and they are responsive, but the LOTRO client is locked up. Every once in a while the UI flashes on an off very rapidly then disappears again. Memory utilization of the LOTRO client is down around 1.5GB. If I wait long enough (2 or 3 minutes?) the entire machine locks up and I have to do a forced shutdown with the power on button.

    Somehow this doesn't seem like the memory leak crash everyone's been experiencing, does it? Feels more like the display driver (if there is such a thing on Mac OS X) is dying.

    Anyway, I bugged it...
    "Someday I'm going to move to Michel Delving and leave all this behind." - Hobbit in Waymeet

    [IMG]http://www.48ovvi.org/misc/dawnwen.jpg[/IMG] WINDFOLA

  2. #2
    I highly doubt is some kind of video driver thing, although we will never know cause of their lack of manpower/knowledge. It sure seems when your throw a ticket into the fray, they go ahead and have you test all the BS. It seems a little asinine to have people reload (in my case off of steam) and patch the client, turn down their gfx settings and report back to them. For God's sake, test it at the home office on an Apple.

    Donworth, mine will crash at 1.55 GB of memory as quick as it crashes at 3.5 GB of usage.
    Last edited by StinkyGreene; Mar 19 2013 at 10:18 PM.

  3. #3
    I've seen similar symptoms with other games, that were eventually determined to be caused by a faulty video card. (It was a Radeon HD 3870 Mac Edition, if you're curious.) The WindowServer process would start using 100% CPU and the entire GUI would stop responding at all. You could still ssh in from another machine and use the CLI though.

    I replaced the card with a 5770 and haven't had that problem since.

    It's definitely worth running Apple Hardware Test and seeing if that shows any problems. There still may be a hardware problem even if AHT doesn't find it though. It can be a real pain proving that your GPU is faulty for warranty purposes when it only fails intermittently under load, so good luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    103
    Thanks Form,
    As it happens I very recently did a full hardware test and it didn't find anything. The problem I described has never happened on the Windows client on this machine so I suspect it might be software.
    Don
    "Someday I'm going to move to Michel Delving and leave all this behind." - Hobbit in Waymeet

    [IMG]http://www.48ovvi.org/misc/dawnwen.jpg[/IMG] WINDFOLA

  5. #5
    Could be. If the entire machine locks up, there's definitely a problem at the OS level or below; an application simply shouldn't be able to make that happen. That said, it's also entirely possible that LotRO is doing something unusual or downright incorrect that is triggering the hypothetical OS bug.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,775
    There are multiple answers here.
    1- Yes, reloading the client is basically BS. While it is always possible that the client or the data files (.dat files) have gotten corrupted, the probability of it happening is essentially zero... and if they are getting corrupted, short of an actual hardware write error (disk failure), the cause is going to be a screw-up on the part of the software product (Windows or Mac) telling the OS to write-out bad data (an incomplete write).

    Will a reload "fix" the problem? -- No, but it might get the individual player "running until it happens again." Or at least quiet them down for a period of time while they are reloading the client.

    This attitude is the primary goal of any "Service" (i.e customer service) organization. (And we're not just taking about computers here, try getting your Cable TV or Telephone, "serviced!") They have zero responsibility to "fix' problems or even answer questions, they are charged with keeping the customer running (not necessarily even happy). Have you ever tried to ask a question of a Service rep only to be answered with the question -- What are you trying to do?" This attitude is common across the industry and has been since the programming staff was isolated from the customer in the name of "productivity" (which happened back in the late 1970s or early 1980s.)

    So, while it is true, with the growth of "Personal Computers," "idiot" problems" -- "my computer doesn't work"..."Is it turned on?"... "no..." -- still dominate the dialog that Customer Service has to deal with, this means that the "real problems" are treated with the same cavalier attitude, as are knowledgable and technically competent individuals.

    2- The "memory leak" issue exhibits itself in multiple ways. Part of what is happening is that the Mac or Windows clients are simply forcing the "self protection" features of the Operating systems to be invoked. (I run the Windows client via WINE and see the same problems.) The basic problem is that both clients are 32-bit clients, which are attempting to address more than 4GB of memory. Once that happens, all kinds of adjacent issues begin to happen. The Operating system (either OSX or Windows) first responsibility is to prevent itself from being compromised... crash or otherwise be corrupted. It attempts to do that by terminating the individual process causing the problem. However, because the problem has been caused by the process calling on System Services (i.e. memory management services), the OS cannot terminate the process... it's kind of a catch-22 issue. That is why "Force Quit" or "kill -9" on OSX does not work.

    BTW, the "lock-up" only lasts for about 45 minutes. OSX will eventually "time-out" all of the various hanging processes and terminate everything cleanly... but it takes "forever!"

    3- As for the Apple Hardware Test -- it's a joke. It's third party software that cannot even tell when a disk drive is not spinning!

    Currently, I am unaware of any kind of hardware test software for the Mac which will find anything other than an absolute failure of a component. I've used Tech-Tool Pro, Disk Warrior, and now (with Snow Lion) Apple's "iCloud" analysis.

    So while you might find something which lightly exercises the Graphics setups in a Mac, unless you are using a "tower" with a "real" Graphics Card and can actually run the Vendor's diag software, the probability is not good.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden

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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    11

    Client crash/memory leak?

    I had this problem maybe 3 months ago and then it stopped. Started happening again with the release of U10 along with other client crashes. I multibox LOTRO on 4 PC and 6 clents. Only ever had the memory low crash on one of these systems, but now get it regularly. Each client starts out using 900k of memory and then creeps up to 1,400k ish and then starts serving me the low memory warning and then later a crash. Turned my graphic hardware level down to DirectX9 ans that made no difference.

    I also will experience on all my systems client freezes, with messages like "Your connection to the chat server has been lost." then 90seconds or so later "Your connection to the chat server has been restored." and maybe another 2 mins later 5/6 of my clients on all my PCs will crash. Dunno if the two issues are connected but both started with U10 release.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c21400000003c076/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 

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