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  1. #1

    Any upcoming changes for defilers? (And a few bugs)



    I think I speak for every defiler saying that our dps is pretty darn sad. We're a healing class, I get it, It'd be OP if we could heal ourselves and others while sustaining a big amount of dps, but that shouldn't mean we can't choose to do a decent amount of dps at the cost of survivality, in my normal build I have about 4k extra morale than in that picture, I swapped some corruptions to see If I could pull out some nice numbers, guess I was wrong.
    Both RKs and Minis can choose to sustain decent dps at the cost of healing/survivality, but defilers(and I guess WLs too, tho I don't play one) can't.



    300 dps is miserable when there's classes that aren't supposed to be dps classes like burgs(The actual role is 'support', I have one and imo they're better dpsers than supports but you get the point) can pull numbers like 4k. Again, I understand burgs are squishier than defilers, and to do these numbers they are even squishier, but again, why can't we choose?

    --------------------

    Now onto the bugs, when you trait the improved version of fungal spores, whenever you crit the main heal, all the HoT ticks and the expiration heal will crit, however, when you don't crit the main heal, none of the HoTs will crit.



    However, when you dont trait the improved version, all the chances are random.



    And the last... you may notice it says ''Fell restoration'' every time, while the skill I'm casting is called ''Fungal spores''(Fell restoration is another healing skill)

  2. #2
    The class is simply broken and need a total revamp ==>

    -Our DPS is the weakest of all class, from both side, and is only onpar with a slug.
    -Our debuffs are dating from SoA and are completly obsolete with current game mechanisms.
    -Our healing output is about the same as a HoH captain (whos not even a primary or secondary healers freep side).
    -We have no CC or *Oh Sh1t* button (aside of our 5 seconds fear on a 30 seconds CD).

    In all honesty, a craid should fill the healing spots with a WL if available, they have better survivability, their bubbles are really useful, their healing output is decent and their banner/aura are useful. The defilers are, unfortunatly, bringing only a half decent healing ability to the table, when they are not greybared to death during RvR actions.

  3. #3
    It's true, defilers are useless. Freeps shouldn't even bother targeting them. :P

    Ok, seriously, I agree with a few points here but not the over-the-top conclusion our class is broken.

    * Thanks for pointing out the "crit/non-crit tick" thing. I always got the feeling that the "if one crits they all crit" thing showed up by accident when they changed something else and Turbine's response was "Uh, yeah, here's a new intended defiler feature, too!". Probably hasn't gotten any attention because every defiler slots the trait.

    * Debuffs certainly need some attention, especially if they are just gonna slide off with the new freep cleanses. But blight alone is still strong enough to make it useful to have defilers in a group. We need to be more than blightbots tho. Improved plague gourd should not require a trait.

    * Agreed CC & emergency skills need improvement. Sticky feet hits 1 out of 3 times maybe? Fear is useless 90% of the time (well it seems). Blessing of darkness is still good in the right spot; however, but needs to be harder to break and provide some mitigation to prevent us from blowing up so much.

    * Healing was in a good place, need time to see how it works out in u10, but I think it's better than "half decent". We can still pre-hot and be a factor in fights. Efflo & fell restoration 11k crit heals are hardly worthless (it's the induction set backs that make it worthless, but that's part of the fun).

    * I share your grey bar frustration. Funny how it's evil to have flies that power drain (freep not having any power and can't use skills is no fun!) but our constant grey bar is perfectly ok (lots of fun when a creep can't use skills!). Perhaps defilers will get an immunity/cleanse skill.

    As for the "let defilers dps" topic that surfaces now and again, I'm gonna get on my grumpy old defiler soapbox. There used to be 3 commandments to defilers:

    1. Thou shalt not dps, your duty is one of sacrifice to others;
    2. Flies are the meekest upon the earth, yet the coolest thing on creepside; and
    3. Thou shall receive 1 or 2 infamy per kill, and no more, for you shall be humble while others are heroes.

    First, instead of giving flies love they broke flies by making them overpowered. Then they made defilers into an infamy cash cow so that any tagging defiler could hit 12 ranks in 3 months. So please no strike three, do not add stances or anything to allow defilers to do significant dps -- that's all that's left of the fundamental intent of the class.

    Actually, one dps change that I would like and is very simple is for the coolest defiler skill, constant pain, to do significant damage. Apparently once upon a time in a beta test it actually did dps, but freep tears nerfed it into its current form of harmless nipple-warming laser light show. Come on, if you have a channel skill that screams "look! kill me!" at least make it blow something up!

  4. #4
    Healing:
    My suggestion would be a 3-4k Morale bubble, that reflects a small acid DoT on melee attackers like Runekeeper's Armor of Fire. CD would be between 10 and 15s, but it would leave a debuff on the bubbled target that prevents the target from being bubbled again for 1-1,5min (like SWTOR sage bubble without the explode), uptime of the bubble 10s

    That would help a lot with both emergency skills and consistent healing

    Rezz:
    2 Suggestions here, one is pretty straight forward. The OOC rezz needs no CD

    The second one is a new version of an in combat rezz. The Defilers puts a blight-size hotspot on the ground, that lasts 1min, CD 3min. If a Creep dies within the hotspot, it gets revived with 50% Morale and Power (untraited 1 rezz only, then the hotspot is removed)

    Trait: The rezz trait increases Morale and Power from both rezzes by 25%. Furthermore it increases the rezzing capability of the rezz hotspot to 3 Creeps (and maybe also the uptime to 1,5min - not sure)

    CC:
    The number of CC skills is equal to that of other healing classes, problem is 2 of the 3 are useless. Sticky Feet needs to be far more potent, like 25/35% (untraited/traited).
    Tenderize: CD should be increased to 20s, daze chance 100%, stun on crit

    Inductions:
    I think something needs to be done against the knockbacks, my suggestion: Critical heals with direct heals (including the main heal portion of HoTs, but not the HoT portion) should provide 10s immunity against knockback from damage

    DPS: This needs stances switchable out of combat only, or some kind of capstone, that prevents switching from full healing to DPS and vice versa

    Debuffs: Get rid of the inductions, the weaker ones should be on the move, the stronger ones root-in-plce like LM Lore skills
    The debuffs themselves are actually not bad, only Cure of the Rotten Flesh bothers me, 5% more damage isn't enough and AoE doesn't help. 25% more damage for 10s on a single target (with a higher CD) would be much more useful

  5. #5
    Stances are over used IMO. Defilers just need more class trait options so if you want to dps heavy and heal debuff light u trait for it and vice versa. I won't touch on mini vs defilers since population balance vs faction balance is a separate issue.

  6. #6
    Some suggestions I've been dreaming of include removing the armor and morale class traits (I said I was dreaming) as well as,



    Frugal Curses: Disease's applied cannot be removed for X amount of time i.e. 5s or 15s.

    Fast Lob: All gourd and curse skills usable while moving with a -35% chance to miss. Untraited comparable to current traited.

    Enhanced Gourds: Replaces enhanced plague gourd adding new effects to all the 'ranged skill' gourds on a critical hit:
    Plague gourd: increased bpe debuff
    Fire gourd: increased dot
    Exploding gourd: increased initial explosive damage
    Gooey gourd: increased skill induction debuff
    Plague of Flies gourd: increases the -miss & -resist

    Enhanced Plague of Flies: Harder to kill

    Plague of Flies: Applies a -miss and -resist debuff on target(s) no longer applying a countdown or power drain

    Strong Arm: All gourd and melee skills have a +X% chance to critical and/or +X% critical magnitude

    Enhanced Stick: That stick you call a weapon adds new effects to all your melee skills on a critical hit:
    Headbreaker: increased dot
    Tenderize: applies a daze
    Constant Pain: increased heal

    Constant Pain: adds a melee attack at the start of the ranged channel (does not need to be within melee range to use)



    An incomplete list of class trait suggestions but the goal would be to have multiple 'trait lines' to have multiple defiler builds. Can spec to efficiently heal, efficiently debuff, or efficiently damage. I feel a fix to population balances allowing freeps to f2p the moors or an alternative is needed prior to a defiler revamp. Faction balance is easy its the population balance that is tricky.

  7. #7

    I'd like to say I altered this for comedic purposes, but sadly no.

    A champions auto-attack currently hits for more than a Critical hit with my Gourd.
    I am a DPS machine.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    * Debuffs certainly need some attention, especially if they are just gonna slide off with the new freep cleanses. But blight alone is still strong enough to make it useful to have defilers in a group. We need to be more than blightbots tho. Improved plague gourd should not require a trait.
    Blight is a very situational skill. Its great in a confined area, like a keep/gate/stair, but almost useless in the open, where most of the fighting take place. Even if you throw a blight on a group of ennemies, they will simply step away to avoid the -75% incoming healing debuff and ignore the ridiculous tick (about 100 damage per tick, when not resisted or simply potted).


    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    * Healing was in a good place, need time to see how it works out in u10, but I think it's better than "half decent". We can still pre-hot and be a factor in fights. Efflo & fell restoration 11k crit heals are hardly worthless (it's the induction set backs that make it worthless, but that's part of the fun).
    Creeps healing was nerfed with the improvement of freeps DPS/crit magnetude with U10. If a standard freep see his DPS level raised by 15-25% overall thanks to BP and crit game mechanisms improvements, then its a indirect nerf to creep healing output, which remained the same as U9. Creeps will go down faster, its mathematic.

    The fell restoration 11k will happen only if you have the 4 OP and about 15% of the time when casted (healing crit chances). So this mean if you consider the 30 sec CD and all things being equal, it will crit once on each 7 cast, about each 210 seconds, or 3.5 minutes. How many Creeps will die during this time frame, in a RvR situation? A lot.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    Healing:
    My suggestion would be a 3-4k Morale bubble, that reflects a small acid DoT on melee attackers like Runekeeper's Armor of Fire. CD would be between 10 and 15s, but it would leave a debuff on the bubbled target that prevents the target from being bubbled again for 1-1,5min (like SWTOR sage bubble without the explode), uptime of the bubble 10s

    That would help a lot with both emergency skills and consistent healing

    Rezz:
    2 Suggestions here, one is pretty straight forward. The OOC rezz needs no CD

    The second one is a new version of an in combat rezz. The Defilers puts a blight-size hotspot on the ground, that lasts 1min, CD 3min. If a Creep dies within the hotspot, it gets revived with 50% Morale and Power (untraited 1 rezz only, then the hotspot is removed)

    Trait: The rezz trait increases Morale and Power from both rezzes by 25%. Furthermore it increases the rezzing capability of the rezz hotspot to 3 Creeps (and maybe also the uptime to 1,5min - not sure)

    CC:
    The number of CC skills is equal to that of other healing classes, problem is 2 of the 3 are useless. Sticky Feet needs to be far more potent, like 25/35% (untraited/traited).
    Tenderize: CD should be increased to 20s, daze chance 100%, stun on crit

    Inductions:
    I think something needs to be done against the knockbacks, my suggestion: Critical heals with direct heals (including the main heal portion of HoTs, but not the HoT portion) should provide 10s immunity against knockback from damage

    DPS: This needs stances switchable out of combat only, or some kind of capstone, that prevents switching from full healing to DPS and vice versa

    Debuffs: Get rid of the inductions, the weaker ones should be on the move, the stronger ones root-in-plce like LM Lore skills
    The debuffs themselves are actually not bad, only Cure of the Rotten Flesh bothers me, 5% more damage isn't enough and AoE doesn't help. 25% more damage for 10s on a single target (with a higher CD) would be much more useful
    Imo these are some of the best suggestions so far. You should make a thread them.

    The moralebubble-function is rather new to ettenmoors yet no creep class has any kind of skill that provides the effect, they should look over the lack of different skills and effects e g. cure abilities, crowd control, morale bubbles, inc crit reductions, inc heal/damage boosts, reduced damage/healing boosts etc.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    Stuff<snip>
    1. Thou shalt not dps, your duty is one of sacrifice to others;
    2. Flies are the meekest upon the earth, yet the coolest thing on creepside; and
    3. Thou shall receive 1 or 2 infamy per kill, and no more, for you shall be humble while others are heroes.
    Isn't that lore-breaking? An orc that thinks of others?

    do not add stances or anything to allow defilers to do significant dps -- that's all that's left of the fundamental intent of the class.
    I think giving every class multiple options is a fundamental principle of an MMO, amiright? Why would it bother you, a healing defiler, if others that wanted more versatility to their toons were given the chance to DPS when in the mood? If your rationale is that historically the class has been heals-only and that that's how you've played it over the years, I'm sorry, that smacks of I-didn't-get-any-love-and-so-nor-should-others-in-my-situation.

    Stances and pertinent traits are a beautiful thing, imo. Yes, the former can be OP on some classes (mainly mini's and wardens, and maybe champs, that I can think of atm), but to use that as an argument against giving a wider variety of classes more alternatives is illogical.

    In short: MOAR DEEPS!

 

 

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