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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    I find it ironic how so many "casual players" or those who "don't have much time" are the ones farming battle for erebor T1 the most for FA/gold items. Then when someone comes along and points out how T1 can be done by 3-yr olds and turbine should boost the difficulty or put first ages only in T2 that these 'casual players who don't have much time' come back with it takes no skill to raid and these players don't have the time to bother with T2 so everything needs to be available on t1. Those players are simply covering up a simple fact: they're not skilled, hence why they don't get T2 or T2c down.

    Those players are fine farming t1 hours and hours a day but say they can't be bothered to attempt T2 because they don't have the time. Clearly they do. It all boils down to 1 thing that those players don't like to hear.

    And if people hate raiding so much...why are they bothering doing t1 hours a day? Oh shoot, thats right...they only hate raiding when it's too difficult for them.
    i think pretty much by definition someone that grinds anything for hours a day is not someone who is "casual". as i've said in other threads, this was a great update for people who have plenty of time and a lust for loot. for those of us who want our rewards to be from challenging content rather than handed to us via T1 facerolls, the update was terrible.
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  2. #127
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    I didn't read any of this thread, just going by the title so if I am offbase sorry.


    At 65 and 75 cap a first age was prize that was super exciting to win, buy it, barter for it, win it, whatever, now at 85 its just another grind to me. Its easy to get, it takes no skill, no gearing up your toon getting him/her ready for an intense challenge, just time and luck. Yes I got one, yes I use it, but I was never excited to get it and thats the kinda thing i miss.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000001af7d9/signature.png]Webferth[/charsig]

  3. #128

    Just wow ...

    Talk about the LOTRO community at its worst. I haven't seen such bitter and vile posts in this game for a very long while. Why are so many of you obsessed with some fictional superiority over another player? I, for one, am thrilled that not only my kinships "skilled" raiders are getting their FAs, but those with less play time and experience can as well, plus they can get to do the content. My friend who is an Iraq war veteran, lost his left arm ... now, raiding is a challenge for him; but even with his disability and thus, less "skill" as some put it ... his time can be rewarded with an achievement otherwise often impossible. Many of you need to just grow up and focus on yourself instead of spreading this immature and hateful rhetoric about other people just because you feel devalued in your "skill" and "elitism". Get over yourselves.
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by RKL View Post
    Interesting: How many is so many? 1, 2, 10, 100, 1000? Where are you getting the information from that the same ‘casuals’ do all these things you accuse them of?
    More than 100 players that are not anonymous, thru the pug runs I've gone on, and the constant advertising for battle for erebor farm from players that couldn't even complete a single boss in ToO T2. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the obvious. Majority of the server has probably farmed BFE t1.

    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    Talk about the LOTRO community at its worst. I haven't seen such bitter and vile posts in this game for a very long while. Why are so many of you obsessed with some fictional superiority over another player? I, for one, am thrilled that not only my kinships "skilled" raiders are getting their FAs, but those with less play time and experience can as well, plus they can get to do the content. My friend who is an Iraq war veteran, lost his left arm ... now, raiding is a challenge for him; but even with his disability and thus, less "skill" as some put it ... his time can be rewarded with an achievement otherwise often impossible. Many of you need to just grow up and focus on yourself instead of spreading this immature and hateful rhetoric about other people just because you feel devalued in your "skill" and "elitism". Get over yourselves.
    Wow talk about you and hypocrisy. Initially you're hating on people obsessed with some fictional superiority and yet somehow you feel happy for your friend because he feels an achievement doing fictional stuff. You should really be hating your friend because he finds enjoyment from fictional rewards. Oh wait. You're a hypocrite.

  5. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    More than 100 players that are not anonymous, thru the pug runs I've gone on, and the constant advertising for battle for erebor farm from players that couldn't even complete a single boss in ToO T2. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the obvious. Majority of the server has probably farmed BFE t1.



    Wow talk about you and hypocrisy. Initially you're hating on people obsessed with some fictional superiority and yet somehow you feel happy for your friend because he feels an achievement doing fictional stuff. You should really be hating your friend because he finds enjoyment from fictional rewards. Oh wait. You're a hypocrite.
    Clearly, you have little understanding of what it means to be hypocritical. Being happy for my friend, who can get a FA on easier T1 is not the same as being disgusted by people's attitude about T1 "casuals" being able to get FA at all.
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    Clearly, you have little understanding of what it means to be hypocritical. Being happy for my friend, who can get a FA on easier T1 is not the same as being disgusted by people's attitude about T1 "casuals" being able to get FA at all.
    When T2c raiders want to be rewarded you think there is something wrong with that. When your friend wants to be rewarded for T1s (which T1s have always been rewarding, it isn't new with RoR), you don't have anything wrong with that. That is you being a hypocrite.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; Mar 15 2013 at 10:06 PM.

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    When T2c raiders want to be rewarded you think there is something wrong with that. When your friend wants to be rewarded for T1s (which T1s have always been rewarding, it isn't new with RoR), you don't hate on him. That is you being a hypocrite.
    No, not with FAs ... if you read some of my posts ... I have clearly stated that T2c should have rewards such as titles, unique cosmetics and trophies so they can peacock themselves around for the accomplishment. Gear, from barter tokens to weapons ... should be available to all, with possible variance on drop rate based on difficulty. I never stated T2c folks shouldn't get a reward ... my comments were directed towards the folks who feel FAs belong only to them (those to complete T2c).
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    More than 100 players that are not anonymous, thru the pug runs I've gone on, and the constant advertising for battle for erebor farm from players that couldn't even complete a single boss in ToO T2. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the obvious. Majority of the server has probably farmed BFE t1.


    Wow talk about you and hypocrisy. Initially you're hating on people obsessed with some fictional superiority and yet somehow you feel happy for your friend because he feels an achievement doing fictional stuff. You should really be hating your friend because he finds enjoyment from fictional rewards. Oh wait. You're a hypocrite.
    lol: I hope you won’t take offence if I am a bit skeptical about this. The turnip truck is currently in the shop for repairs and I have not been on it today.

  9. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    No, not with FAs ... if you read some of my posts ... I have clearly stated that T2c should have rewards such as titles, unique cosmetics and trophies so they can peacock themselves around for the accomplishment. Gear, from barter tokens to weapons ... should be available to all, with possible variance on drop rate based on difficulty. I never stated T2c folks shouldn't get a reward ... my comments were directed towards the folks who feel FAs belong only to them (those to complete T2c).
    Raiders are looking for ways to better their toon. Doing t2c once is a reward but gives no reason to do content again. Giving FA or something unique to better their toon gives raiders a reason to do the content repeatedly. The reward should fit the accomplishment and titles/cosmetics/trophies won't get people doing T2c more than once. Something unique that progresses the player's toon will get them to go in the T2 raid repeatedly.

  10. #135


    Screenshot of 1 moment out of the entire day. The fellowing tab doesn't include anonymous players.

    For level 85s: 35 burgs, 100+ hunters, 100+ champs, 71 guards, 60 LMs, 69 minstrels, 56 captains, 38 RKs, 33 wardens that are online and not anonymous.

    This means at one moment throughout the entire day...approximately 16% of players not anon are doing T1 raids.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; Mar 15 2013 at 10:42 PM.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    Raiders are looking for ways to better their toon. Doing t2c once is a reward but gives no reason to do content again. Giving FA or something unique to better their toon gives raiders a reason to do the content repeatedly. The reward should fit the accomplishment and titles/cosmetics/trophies won't get people doing T2c more than once. Something unique that progresses the player's toon will get them to go in the T2 raid repeatedly.
    Maybe unique gold items, like those that have possibility to drop from different instances and maybe slightly better - unique just to T2c. That would make lot of people want to run it on T2.

    FA symbol can be bought for seals anyway, so it is not so unique drop. I have finally tried T1 BfE, and I haven't seen that amount of symbols that drop. In maybe 5 runs there were only one symbol drop. But BfE on T1 is really as easy as people saying on forum - no wonder that people keep doing it.

    Also since raiders have no interest in horse as reward, I suggest that horse should be moved to be T1 reward.
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  12. #137
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    Well Timmy, let’s look at your claim. Here is your original post I responded to.

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    I find it ironic how so many "casual players" or those who "don't have much time" are the ones farming battle for erebor T1 the most for FA/gold items. Then when someone comes along and points out how T1 can be done by 3-yr olds and turbine should boost the difficulty or put first ages only in T2 that these 'casual players who don't have much time' come back with it takes no skill to raid and these players don't have the time to bother with T2 so everything needs to be available on t1. Those players are simply covering up a simple fact: they're not skilled, hence why they don't get T2 or T2c down.

    Those players are fine farming t1 hours and hours a day but say they can't be bothered to attempt T2 because they don't have the time. Clearly they do. It all boils down to 1 thing that those players don't like to hear.

    And if people hate raiding so much...why are they bothering doing t1 hours a day? Oh shoot, thats right...they only hate raiding when it's too difficult for them.
    I then ask:

    Quote Originally Posted by RKL View Post
    Interesting: How many is so many? 1, 2, 10, 100, 1000? Where are you getting the information from that the same ‘casuals’ do all these things you accuse them of?
    Then you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    More than 100 players that are not anonymous, thru the pug runs I've gone on, and the constant advertising for battle for erebor farm from players that couldn't even complete a single boss in ToO T2. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the obvious. Majority of the server has probably farmed BFE t1.
    So you claim that you have documented over 100 players on your server who fit both of the following criteria.

    1: so many "casual players" or those who "don't have much time" are the ones farming battle for erebor T1 the most for FA/gold items.

    2: these 'casual players who don't have much time' come back with it takes no skill to raid and these players don't have the time to bother with T2 so everything needs to be available on t1.

    Like I said: (paraphrased) the truck stops here. (apologies to Harry Truman for the pun)
    Last edited by RKL; Mar 16 2013 at 12:36 AM.

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshilady View Post
    That is arrogant presumption. We can be VERY accomplished players and still not like raiding. SOME of us like the process better than the end game and I see no reason why we should have to be punished for it.
    I see no reason why you should be rewarded for it. This is an MMO, not a communist collective. Merit must be part of the equation.
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  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk View Post
    I see no reason why you should be rewarded for it. This is an MMO, not a communist collective. Merit must be part of the equation.
    So, only raiders deserve merit? This is the attitude that leads some of us to speculate (to please the raiders) if the devs should take a lot of their instance development teams away from group development and switch them over to solo instance development. I would not be opposed to such a change. After all, this is not a communist collective.
    Last edited by RKL; Mar 15 2013 at 11:54 PM.

  15. #140

    Alas for Poor Folk Everywhere

    I believe anyone should be able to get anything with only time being the factor. Solo-focused ones should be able to get barter-level raid gear but with a hefty cost in time via skirmishes, etc etc. Raid-focused sorts should get drops swifter with the rarity of drops decreasing with the difficulty of the tier.

    If Time was the only factor, do not see how anyone could argue with this fact.
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    I believe anyone should be able to get anything with only time being the factor. Solo-focused ones should be able to get barter-level raid gear but with a hefty cost in time via skirmishes, etc etc. .
    I disagree.

    For the reasons I have repeated, in a nutshell confusion of rewards accross playstyles is bad and is a frustrating design. It devaluates one playstyle at the expense of the one which concentrates the largest amount of rewards. In your scenario, solo'ing is a superior playstyle to raiding, and raiding becomes optional.

    You don't realize how bad it is if you extend that reasoning to a larger pool of playstyles and have time as only the currency. Being in full PvP gear despite having never set a foot in the moors - Having that festival cosmetic, deed and title, without having never set a foot in the festival area. Having raid gear while I never put a foot in a raid and I don't intend to do it at all. I just have it because I could buy it with time at the skirmish camp... No objective incentive to do the other types of content, only the subjective ones... That's the winning formula leading to disasters.
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  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    I believe anyone should be able to get anything with only time being the factor. Solo-focused ones should be able to get barter-level raid gear but with a hefty cost in time via skirmishes, etc etc. Raid-focused sorts should get drops swifter with the rarity of drops decreasing with the difficulty of the tier.

    If Time was the only factor, do not see how anyone could argue with this fact.
    what makes you think that what raiders want is to get things faster?
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  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk View Post
    I see no reason why you should be rewarded for it. This is an MMO, not a communist collective. Merit must be part of the equation.
    That is just mean.

    I'm not a raider. I like the loading screen, I enjoy the pretty pictures and spend a lot of time looking at it. I should be rewarded for logging in! We should get equal rewards!
    And then, forever remains that change from G to E minor.

  19. #144
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    This is a stupid thread.
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  20. #145
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    The bottom line: who really cares about the 1st age weapons being easy or hard to get?
    The biggest problem? One day, you're going to have to take that shiny new weapon and decon it for a level 90+.

    The whole concept of "equal loot for equal playstyles" is the real devaluation of the game. Greater difficulty should equal greater rewards, in my opinion. If all I do is solo, the only way I should be getting "top flight gear" outside of grouping should be T2 and T3 skirmishes. Otherwise, the best gear isn't actually needed. In fact, if I'm unwilling to group to get it, that means I don't actually want it either.
    [COLOR=Red]Khalfani - 100 Loremaster R7[/COLOR] / [COLOR=DarkGreen]Keon - 85 Captain R4[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Sienna]Khalvin - 76 Hunter R6[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Purple]Khalonidas - 75 Warden R4[/COLOR] / [COLOR=SeaGreen]Kayo - 100 Burg R6[/COLOR] / [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Khallision - 75 Guardian R3[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Indigo][COLOR=Plum]Khalosi - 100 RK Rank 7[/COLOR] [/COLOR]/ Khallous - 100 Champ[COLOR=YellowGreen]/ Khalamine - 61 Minstrel/ [/COLOR][COLOR=#ff8c00]Khodiak - 100 Beorning[/COLOR]

  21. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheld_GB View Post
    Reading through all the threads this week a parralel struck me.

    First Ages = Bankers Bonuses.

    The attitude seems to be that only the worthy are entitled to them. Bonuses arnt for the unwashed masses. Only the special & deserving few need bonuses to stop them moving somewhere else. You have to limit bonuses to the few to retain the best talented.

    That would be the "best talented" who have lied, cheated, mis-sold, almost destroyed the financial system, bought the capitalist system to the edge of destruction & ruined the lives of millions of people in the real world.
    +rep for this reference - with a *slight* bit of rebuttal.

    The difference between LOTRO First Ages and Banker Bonuses are that Turbine and the RNG compensate the players, while the bankers are responsible for compensating themsleves AND the people they allegedly work for. The bankers play MUCH more of a rigged game than we do here.
    [COLOR=Red]Khalfani - 100 Loremaster R7[/COLOR] / [COLOR=DarkGreen]Keon - 85 Captain R4[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Sienna]Khalvin - 76 Hunter R6[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Purple]Khalonidas - 75 Warden R4[/COLOR] / [COLOR=SeaGreen]Kayo - 100 Burg R6[/COLOR] / [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]Khallision - 75 Guardian R3[/COLOR] / [COLOR=Indigo][COLOR=Plum]Khalosi - 100 RK Rank 7[/COLOR] [/COLOR]/ Khallous - 100 Champ[COLOR=YellowGreen]/ Khalamine - 61 Minstrel/ [/COLOR][COLOR=#ff8c00]Khodiak - 100 Beorning[/COLOR]

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikthe10man View Post
    The bottom line: who really cares about the 1st age weapons being easy or hard to get?
    The biggest problem? One day, you're going to have to take that shiny new weapon and decon it for a level 90+.

    The whole concept of "equal loot for equal playstyles" is the real devaluation of the game. Greater difficulty should equal greater rewards, in my opinion. If all I do is solo, the only way I should be getting "top flight gear" outside of grouping should be T2 and T3 skirmishes. Otherwise, the best gear isn't actually needed. In fact, if I'm unwilling to group to get it, that means I don't actually want it either.
    So, we now have a new proposal. Giving top flight armor and jewelry for solo skirmishes. That would help and might entice my Turbine Points to start being spent again. How do the rest of you feel about this proposal?

  23. #148
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    When everyone can get first agers and other previously saliva-envigorating loot by running a 5minute instance 500 times, everybody stops playing for fun.

    Or is it that they stopped playing for fun to exercise their salivatory glands? Either way, people are stupid.

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by RKL View Post
    So, we now have a new proposal. Giving top flight armor and jewelry for solo skirmishes. That would help and might entice my Turbine Points to start being spent again. How do the rest of you feel about this proposal?
    It does not make a lot of sense to me. I understand this (and any other game) to have, at the core, a natural progression path that will lead you from solo to fellowship play (it is also worthy of note that everyone who does group play also invests into solo play, so most of the popular solo vs. raiders arguments are nonsensical from the start). For me, it does not make sense to play an MMO and then demand a solo experience, since this goes against the whole idea and obviously dedicated solo games have a much much better environment to deliver for this desire - Tolkien or not.

    The point here is not that solo play is bad, the point is: while more options for solo-achievable gear are nice (and right now that is literally everything in the game save the Erebor armor and the class loot), every developer time put into expanding solo routes will be missing at the fellowship end. So it will cripple one thing while not delivering well on the other either.

  25. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikthe10man View Post
    Otherwise, the best gear isn't actually needed.
    Agreed.

    So we'll make it so raid gear has 0 stats outside of a raid, because, hey, it's not NEEDED for landscape or other non-raid content so raiders can get along fine with the gear for the rest of us.

    You'll surely agree to that seeing as how you said the 'best' gear isn't actually needed in this part of the game.

    No, I'm sure you won't.

 

 
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