Let´s just get down to the truth:
The main reason most (I am sure not all of them) of the "hardcore raiders" complain about the FA symbols dropping in T1 is because they can`t make thousands of gold with selling FA symbols to the people that are not as lucky or not in an raiding kin but "deserve to have an 1st ager" because they have loads of gold.
its like magic : someone runs an easy raid maybe a hundred times and gets an FA symbol means that person is not "deserving teh powa of teh bling"
if that same person would farm all day for a long time copper ore in ered luin, (maybe even risk farming T2 or higher materials) and best the dangers if the mighty level 8 boars, sell the ore, get 1000 or more gold together they "deserve" to be able to buy an FA off the auction house the same raiding kin farmed because.. as said.. they just deserve it.. really..
It's funny, now that we have a Korean style grinder, when do we get the huge ginormous weapons and the skimpy female outfits? Oh and we need HUGE number spam on damage to finish out the ambience.
1st agers for all = more store sales for every aspect of LI items being offered. Period.
So many sheep to fleece...
How is this not totally obvious?
First of all i would like to point out that spending money on a game does not entitle to anything. You buy the product as-is by your choice. It does not mean that it will continue to be exactly to be what you want it to be. This goes for both sides - 'raiders' and 'soloers' (although i find putting them in these classes really stupid, i use it here due to a lack of better terms). Raiders are not entitled to a raid they like because they paid money, and soloers are not entitled to get everything they want. You buy a product. By your choice. You have to deal with what you get. The product is sold by Turbine, so in the end it is their decision what they sell, and it is up to people to decide whether to buy or not. There is one very simple solution: Don't preorder anything. If someone buys a product that does not even exist yet and it turns out not to be what that person expected, that is their own stupidity. This is a problem in an MMO where people have invested a lot of time (years) and money in their characters and found friends. Not easy to leave all that behind, but luckily you can decide not to spend any money on this game. You decide.
That said the OP has a point that the 1st age items are 'devalued'. This game contains 3 types of LI to provide progression. Yet in the current situation no one actually goes for 2nd age items. Everyone who remotely does instances chases after 1st agers. There is no point to have Tarnished Symbols of Celebrimbor in the game atm. So something seems to be out of balance there. As to where they should drop or how they should be obtainable? Well, balancing that is near impossible. Whatever Turbine will do, some people will be upset. Imho the main question here is: Should paying equal money mean equal rewards or should skill and coordination be rewarded extra? (Because lets face it: Some of the old raids were hard and 12 people in awesome gear with not much clue what they are doing were dead just as fast as without gear).
Since I have seen some 'elitist raider trying to rip poor soloers off' answers: There may be some 'elitist raiders' who fit that description. But there are also 'soloers' who are none better. Many threads expressing opinions and constructive criticism have been flamed by those comments. Well, imho those 'soloers' are non better than the people they describe. They are just as bad. They accuse a part of the playerbase of something for no obvious reason. Calling someome an 'elitist raider' is exactly the same thing as the raider calling you 'useless noob who wants everything for free'.
Last edited by Golhebron; Mar 14 2013 at 09:08 PM. Reason: profanity
so again...if there is so much concern that FA symbols are too easy to get...why did they hang on to those lootboxes...waiting for easy FA symbols? ohhh...its ok if its easy for a raider to get them......
Binders full of lootboxes maybe.....
To the OP: I feel for your disappointment but it is as you said, if you find something not to your satisfaction you can always chose not to pay for it.
But you make a good point by displaying how much extreme meanings we put in the stats of an earned gear/weapon within a game. For days now I see mature, intelligent people go at each other over the most superficial reasons in every aspect and it is saddening. It seems that no matter what you post these days it takes but one direction which is: Those who call themselves Raiders vs those who call themselves Casuals. I tried to stay out of it as much as I can but this thread is heading there too…
What brought it on? What brought so much anger on? There were threads and posts that fuelled it true but I think the basic reason is: Putting unnecessary amount of materialistic value on pixels.
Don’t get me wrong I am not judging anyone, because I have been there myself. My biggest regret in this game is not losing a die roll against a player and missing on a valued item, no…my biggest regret is the time when I verbally attacked people here on these very forums about year ago about U6, just because I and some others did not like it and just because some others did. If there is one thing I wish I could undo it is that. When that happened I actually sat back and said to myself: “What on Earth am I doing and why?”
I have got many friends who aspire to attain the best gear in the game and so they go raiding every night till they have got them. I also have got a lot of casual friends (and include myself in this group) who will have none of it and so we go in small groups of 3 from time to time or spend the rest of our evening grinding or doing some other thing. It does not seem at all astonishing to any of us that we do not attack each other over this set and that set and this weapon and that weapon. When one of us completes a Hytbold set we pat each other on the back and when one of them earns the items for a 1st ager we simply say “Grats”. They link their newly acquired items in our private joinchannel and not once have we thought “they are showing off”. Whats wrong with sharing something you are happy to have earned? Basically we care what they have got only in a friendly manner and they care that we finally have got more end-game content for solo play and even through mild raiding get some of the items we could never imagine we would attain before. Why cant we have the same attitude here on the forums?
I have not played this game in the name of acquiring gears in a long long time. If the majority of the players want the symbols to drop from more difficult content I would have no qualms about it. If the majority wanted it the same way it is now I would have no qualms about that either. Because at the end of the day the end game does not stay end game forever and it is only me myself who gets crossed with a pixel world if I go and get in a fight with someone who in other circumstances would make a great friend to me. I can see that now.
As a community we have to realize that there are things in this game that drop from no lootbox, from no instance; Things that cannot be purchased in the store or bartered in vendors. It is the newly forged friendships you make when you assist a person you don’t know. When you craft an entire set of armour for a person you had never met before just because you inspected them and saw that their armour was outdated. It is the gratitude you see when you help out a newbie, it is when you selflessly go to a fellowship below your level with no gain whatsoever and yet you do it because you want to represent this community of lotro the way it should be represented as an individual. I know so many people who do all that.
I used to raid quite often in the past during SoA, as a matter of fact Rift used to be the only place I visited when I logged in but of all the fellowships and raids and instances I have participated in, the most fun I have ever had was the time when we set off to explore SG for the first time and we had made a pact that we would not read anything on the internet about the instance and instead figure our way inside. We got 5 wipes per boss till we figured what was going on and we actually wrote funny poems about those fights and posted them on our kinsite the next day. We had but one heavy raider amongst us, a pug who was warned beforehand what that expedition was about but joined all the same because in his words: “This he had to see…” and you know what? even he said that despite the endless hours it took, it was by far the most fun he ever had in an instance. Two days later he joined our kin claiming that he could raid anytime he wanted with the connections he had but he could not find that kind of fun everywhere. We had actual tears coming down from our cheeks out of sheer laughter during that run…
The gears I obtained from this and that raid does not compare to the fun we had when out of nowhere it occurred to us that we could go to Urugarth as level 70ies in nothing but our underwear and punch our way through the mobs. That was one insane night
When I look back I cannot remember the names or the stats of the gears I earned because they have already been replaced by something else.
I remember the names and the laughs of the fellows we shared those funny runs with though. So for your own enjoyment forget once every while about the gears and item drops and/or if they are devalued, if they drop too often, if they drop too rarely, if those who raid often has got them or if soloers can also get them through mild raiding; and try enjoying yourself in company of your fellow players or solo and put an end to all this division.
I will thus conclude this post with these words of Abraham Lincoln and I apologize for making it this long.
“A house divided against itself cannot stand”
Last edited by Tinuvela; Mar 14 2013 at 10:59 AM.
[URL="http://www.tinnster.blogspot.com"]www.tinnster.blogspot.com[/URL] for those who enjoy gaming, cinema, literature.
Oh boy another of these threads. There is only one solution for the truly dedicated and that is to have the Symbols available only if you have soloed all three Erebor Raids on Tier 2C. Only that will prove you are worthy of these revered items.
Seriously, I am ambivalent about this new stuff. So I need a First Age bow now to partially mitigate the Crit that was taken away from me by the Nerf to Agi (and before you comment I have 438 Fate)? Gold Items: I get them I get them, I am not going to run BoE over 150 times in a week to do so.
Erebor sets? I am going to expend 17,558 Marks, 4,440 Medallions, and 368 Seal to get the Lesser Set which is, in some ways, less preferable to the Hytbold set, so I can then expend 12 of the new gems to upgrade to the Greater Set so I can get a total of +60 Agi, +9 Fate. +17 Vitality, +180 Finesse, +80 Physical Mastery. +20 Critical Rating, and +15 Power. Well the 60 Agi will not do much to mitigate against the approximately 1,700 crit taken away with U10.
I got more satisfaction from taking my 85 into Forochel the other night and killing Guaradan to get rep items for my 62 Warden/Cook so I could get the rep-gated Cook Recipes than maybe I would have otherwise with this new stuff; finite goal, I know I can get that recipe or whatever by doing this and that or such and so.
Still using your Draig cloak and Great River bauble, don't worry we dropped the Armour value on the cloak by over 250 points and dropped the two piece bonus on the Great River jewelry set. That will teach you to keep using that older stuff when you should be puttin' on the Ritz.
Now, don't get me wrong, but for me, I do like doing this or any content with Kin, either as a Kin-based run or with Kin in a pug, but I am not going to go searching for opportunities otherwise to do so in an endless repetition.
I do think it a bit strange that it is easier to get the 85 FA Symbol than it is for the 65 or 75 FA Symbols. Also funny now that the new content is all finally here that the predictable time mechanics for obtaining the Hytbold sets is now lifted with Mithril Coin-based resets for the Aiding the Eastemnet daily quest.
We are all on the great hamster wheel of life.
< Enter lousy signature here>
I'm not surprised to see posts such as the OP's. It seems like a logical outcome of the situation.
Right now, the shiniest weapons do not seem all that shiny because it does not require much time to get them.
It's not that "so many other players have them, so they are worth less to me." The fact that so many other players have them is just one symptom of the real source of the devaluation -- they are more quickly/easily attained.
If it doesn't take much time to get our virtual items, they won't hold much value for us.
We can see it clearly in terms of how we feel about our level 5 character vs. our level 85 character. Our level 85 character is so valuable to us because of the time put into it. The virtual qualities of the character (skills, items obtained, virtues, deeds completed, reputation earned) are all virtual representations of that accumulated time. Whereas, in reality, both characters are just pixels on a screen and "should" have no real value.
This correlates to rarity too -- as the random chance to receive an item decreases, the average time it takes to obtain the item increases, hence the relative value of the item increases.
The developer will try to match the relative value of the virtual qualities of an item (i.e. its stats, appearance, etc.) with the real value (the avg. time it take to obtain it / it's rarity) of the virtual item in order to reinforce immersion / the illusion that the game world is real & matters.
I think that there should be an additional class of weapon: Extreme 1st Age Ultra Items. They are much like regular first age items except for a slight stat increase and a color scheme scientifically designed to draw maximum attention when linked in GLFF. TO prove they are worthy players will have to complete the Sacrifice Firstborn Son deed and the Blood-oath of Allegiance to LORTO deed in order to equip them.
[font=Viner Hand ITC]"It's better to be hated for what you are,than to be loved for what you are not!"[/font]
People really don't like hearing or knowing how madbad they are at a game.
Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.
You are not really saying that gear has no value. You are saying is that its value, for you, lies in it being a means to an end.
In terms of measuring its "real" value, it lies in how much time you were willing to spend in obtaining this "means to an end" or how much cash you were willing to spend on this "means to an end" (if it was obtainable directly via cash).
What we all value is determined by us and its value can only be represented in relative terms i.e. measured against something else that we ascribe value to. Virtual items as well as non-transferrable things (like enjoyment, for example) can be most readily measured against time & cash - two non-virtual items that are pretty universally agreed to be"valuable".
Turbine doesn't sell virtual gear directly for cash, so it is hard to determine value in dollars. It is easier to determine relative value by how much time you're wiling to spend in getting it.
If the gear is just a means to an end then the value of the gear can be represented by the value of the "end" that it is a means to. If the end is more enjoyment, then the amount of enjoyment it will enable is its "value", which in turn can be measured in terms of the time (or cash) you were willing to spend on obtaining it.
It is not rocket science, If the gear is quickly/easily obtainable it will be devalued: You won't see high prices in terms of in-game gold at the virtual auction house and you won't see Turbine being able to sell it for TPs in the store.
Last edited by Rasdun; Mar 14 2013 at 01:01 PM.
I'd say it is because the relative qualities like "good", "fun", "strong" etc. of a thing only have meaning compared to other things. Our brains are constantly comparing what we are currently experiencing to past experiences to determine our feeling about the experience. Rare things by definition are experienced rarely and hence we typically give them more value.
"When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.
Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other."
Tao Teh Ching
To these people who rebuttle actual arguments for why 1st ages shouldn't drop so easily with "it's just a game, no need to get so serious about what OTHER people get...." Is this an actual conceivably valid argument? Since when has an MMO been successful from throwing everything at the players for free? No MMO has, and survived for very long. and if you find one it either has an extremely small player-base or terrible reviews from anyone that matters.
Also, calling someone who puts up a point on why 1st age symbol drops should be limited an Elitist, proves a point on what your ethics are. Because that doesn't insult anyone, Elitist raiders won't give a #### about this forum, because they have a lot of time on their hands and do whatever it takes to be the best. Just like calling all CEO's money hogging pigs with a group of people in a street. Now you have your easily attained drops, now the people have their money, so why are so many of the same people still whining?
There are people who attempt to be the best they can and have the time. There are people who attempt to be the best they can and don't. Then there's the people who have fun and fully expound on the little delicacies this game has to offer (Fishing/parties/housing/cosmetics/pie runs/chicken play)
THEN there's the people who go on the forums whether they have the time to get where they want or not, and complain that they should get some too, without the effort.
1st age items don't need to be rare...I sincerely would love everyone to get one. I simply want getting one to be an accomplishment, something I've overcome challenge to achieve. I want it to feel as legendary as the stat boosts are. During my years playing this game on multiple characters I've had one 1st age and one legendary. I can still remember getting both.
I do not wish to judge anyone's play-style. For me, the fun is in earning the gear. I'm certainly not hc. I raid because I enjoy an evening spent with my kin...it's not really that different than poker night or going bowling or playing a game of pick up football in the park. In the past, 1st ages were a way to mark a memorable evening...a photograph you could equip.
I am suspicious of Turbine's motives for the unleashed flood of 1st age symbols. It has made the game less fun for me personally. Am I being silly or sentimental or taking a game too seriously? Sure. This game is my hobby, and that is one of the reasons we play. By taking the irrelevant seriously, it allows us a degree of irrelevance about serious things.
oh, and to the question about what I would buy at the store: lot's of different things. the store has turned into a fun part of the game (And no, I didn't just contradict myself lol)
Total Time Played This Week: 27 hours
Total Time Spent in Skirm's: 11 minutes
This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.Reload