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  1. #1
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    Fate or -Power Costs legacies?

    So.... given the update came out, is it better to have a fate legacy, or a -Melee/Cry Power Cost legacy?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

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  2. #2
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    So if you have 50 fate from a legacy... 275 ICPR. And 55 fate is 302.5.

    How much power per minute do we burn with either melee or cries when we have no power cost modifiers (and we usually do)? I'd wager our unmodified melee power used in a minute would be more than 3k. I dunno about cries.
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  3. #3
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    Around 4.5k per minute seems like a reasonable guess at outgoing power cost, based on testing. To equal 275 ICPR from 50 Fate, you'd need to have a 6% reduction in across-the-board power costs. Both power cost legacies start at a 1% reduction. We'd need to spend way more than 4.5k power a minute to make those legacies come even close to a Fate legacy.

    (Fine by me! That means the class revamp can chuck out the power legacies for new ones.)
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Around 4.5k per minute seems like a reasonable guess at outgoing power cost, based on testing. To equal 275 ICPR from 50 Fate, you'd need to have a 6% reduction in across-the-board power costs. Both power cost legacies start at a 1% reduction. We'd need to spend way more than 4.5k power a minute to make those legacies come even close to a Fate legacy.

    (Fine by me! That means the class revamp can chuck out the power legacies for new ones.)
    Are you assuming that we burn power through melee and cries equally?
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  5. #5
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    I guess LoM Cappies will want both Fate and -power costs, but for LtC/HoH I don't see any reason to use -power cost legacies.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Are you assuming that we burn power through melee and cries equally?
    I got that 4.5k estimate by empirical testing, not a theoretical model. So I didn't make any assumption about which type of skill expends more power. It doesn't matter, anyway. Even if we had a generic -% Skill Power Costs legacy, it wouldn't be worth equipping. That hypothetical "reduces all power costs" legacy would need to start at 6% to equal a Fate legacy. The melee/cry cost legacies both start at 1%.

    Actually, if there's any mistake I made, it's that I don't know the base value of a Fate legacy. I was taking your "50 Fate" comment to mean that the Legacy of Fate starts at 50 when applied to a level 85 item and based the comparison on that.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  7. #7
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    On my three crystal 85 SA LIs, the stat legacies start at 56.
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  8. #8
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    Melee power costs and fate have the same cost point wise. At max level fate would give +65= 357.5 ICPR.
    Assuming 4.5k power is spent per minute, the fate legacy can not replace exactly melee skills power costs, but mitigates ~77% of the power. considering that the the increased ICPR works for crys as well and the Fate legacy also gives a yummy amount of crit and ICMR the fate legacy feels overpowered, and i would expect a nerf is coming.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Melee power costs and fate have the same cost point wise. At max level fate would give +65= 357.5 ICPR.
    Assuming 4.5k power is spent per minute, the fate legacy can not replace exactly melee skills power costs, but mitigates ~77% of the power. considering that the the increased ICPR works for crys as well and the Fate legacy also gives a yummy amount of crit and ICMR the fate legacy feels overpowered, and i would expect a nerf is coming.
    Indeed, but don't forget you pretty much have to spend points on the power cost legacy, whereas the Fate legacy can be left without any points in it and still supply a good deal of ICPR.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Melee power costs and fate have the same cost point wise. At max level fate would give +65= 357.5 ICPR.
    Assuming 4.5k power is spent per minute, the fate legacy can not replace exactly melee skills power costs, but mitigates ~77% of the power. considering that the the increased ICPR works for crys as well and the Fate legacy also gives a yummy amount of crit and ICMR the fate legacy feels overpowered, and i would expect a nerf is coming.
    This here is pretty much what I was thinking. Like I burn a LOT of power per minute, though I maintain via ICPR and NfW. Damn near or maybe more than x10 the ICPR from 65 fate (I did underestimate the stat legs) with melee attacks, maybe not so much cries.

    I did forget to think about LI points, etc.
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  11. #11
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    The other relevant point: this stat legacies are minors, so the point investment (even if you max it) is going to be less than whatever you'd spend on the major legacy. I would imagine it's on par with Cry Power Cost.... but even with the cries, it's still not going to make enough of a difference unless it's a tanking build.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    So.... given the update came out, is it better to have a fate legacy, or a -Melee/Cry Power Cost legacy?
    A fate legacy (with 0 points invested) is clearly vastly better than a cry/melee with 0 points invested. The stat legacies are excellent with 0 points in general. I assume you want to compare them both maxed? And fate gives its bonus crit and ICMR to boot...

    That said, not feeling very motivated about investigating power management. Seems like we can still absolutely whale away and have pretty full power bars. Or is in your question restricted to LOM traiting? Because I've been doing a fair bit of LtC and HoH since the update and had no power issues at all...

  13. #13
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    I have concluded that I can't take off NfW even with the new fate.

    I feel that fate would better than the power cost legacies.

    I manage to run OOP in any BfE T1 that takes more than 3? minutes. Of course, that's because if it takes more than 2:30 we have a weak group, and need more healing, and I've used Time of Need.
    Last edited by Nakiami; Mar 13 2013 at 10:29 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    That said, not feeling very motivated about investigating power management. Seems like we can still absolutely whale away and have pretty full power bars. Or is in your question restricted to LOM traiting? Because I've been doing a fair bit of LtC and HoH since the update and had no power issues at all...
    Yeah, LoM Captains are the only ones who need to worry about power, still. I think LtC burns slightly more now than it used to, maybe just because I'm not spamming Defensive Strike, but it's not enough to make a huge difference.

    Does anybody have two pieces of the Erebor Charge set yet? I'm curious how much power is actually restored when we get PA/DB crits.

    Random additional thoughts: If the LoM 2-set bonus for Kick to start an FM goes away (it probably should), then maybe a good replacement would be increased Defensive Strike power restoration or a cry power cost reduction. I've never paid attention to this before, but it suddenly occurs to me that both LtC and HoH have power cost reductions built into their set bonuses, while LoM quite pointedly does not. (The Kick FM starter was probably originally meant to compensate for that, but nobody actually uses FMs any more, and then there's the fact that so many bosses are immune...)
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  15. #15
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    Fate > Everything when it comes to power now in my opinion. So I would get some fate and use your points on something else. That stat is so overpowered at the moment it's nearly game-breaking.

    It's only possible to have power issues now if one chooses to basically - because as it stands now, everyone has easy access to a power bar that rarely moves.

  16. #16
    I really believe (and as others have pointed out) that the ICPR from fate or the power cost of skills is going to be tinkered with in the not too distant future. It would be helpful if we knew when they were going to do this so we could plan around it, but I highly doubt that will happen.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by booksmcread View Post
    I really believe (and as others have pointed out) that the ICPR from fate or the power cost of skills is going to be tinkered with in the not too distant future. It would be helpful if we knew when they were going to do this so we could plan around it, but I highly doubt that will happen.
    That's why I'm reworking a couple of LIs (one planned, the other built) to not sacrifice the major slot held by Melee Skills Power cost - mostly for the same reasons stated here.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    That's why I'm reworking a couple of LIs (one planned, the other built) to not sacrifice the major slot held by Melee Skills Power cost - mostly for the same reasons stated here.
    If I make any future LIs, I'll probably do the same. Save a major slot for melee power costs, but probably just use the minor slot for fate. As far as updating current LIs, I'm probably just going to leave them alone until the next cap increase, just in case. I don't really have anything better to put in to those slots anyway, so I'll wait until we know Fate won't be adjusted before rebuilding anything I currently have.
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