We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6
Results 126 to 145 of 145
  1. #126
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Souku View Post
    yeah i see it on my server as well but i don't understand it.
    It's because of the new Valiant Strike changes. Hands of Healing Captains are miles ahead of where they used to be in healing output and are actually effective AoE healers now. That can be of a huge benefit to the group during times of heavy group-wide damage.

  2. #127
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    If you take a hoh captain instead of a mini you have a fully healed 6man with 4 dps instead of 3 and half. It's just faster to take a captain instead of a mini.

    HoH is a lot better. I'm usually at 2.5k hps...if I'm slacking. 3k+ is normal and 5k if there are pets.
    That's why I run around with 2 Perserverance + 4 Hytbold Healer permanently slotted.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  3. #128
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Emachine View Post
    Hey Jeremi, I'm not picking and appreciate the time you took to copy down all those numbers.

    I think the issue arises in that there's no timestamp to tell how much damage you did per second. Most of our skills hit decently hard but since other classes can do two hits in the time it takes us to do one, or a cappy 1 hander can swing 1.2 times (made up number) in the time a 2h can swing it's difficult to evaluate raw numbers.

    Just to establish a point: If a fight lasts 30 seconds and a champ does 3k dps while a cappy does 700dps the champ did 90,000 damage while the cappy did 21,000. Not that that's inconsequential but that dps class just quadrupled our numbers in that fight.

    During my parses with a third hander we can see that my max output was around 380 dps. With my 2nd age with nice relics it went up about 100 dps if I recall.

    Lets say my max HoH output is around 500 dps (I know other cappies can probably do better but I suck at dps). If that were to drop to 375 I'd lose 3,750 during that 30 second fight. It would take a Hunter or champ just over a second to make that up. I think that's where people are saying that 1h vs 2h dps doesn't matter.

    That said there's only really two cappy shields right now. One from a skirmish that people on my server barely run since the instance cl and another one that takes a small miracle to drop. If you're lucky enough to have the gold one then good on you and put it to use but if you don't have a decent shield (as I don't) it makes it difficult to even contemplate s&b.

    Side note: 100% agreed on the VS changes Jeremi - That skill went from meh to a cappy powerhouse (can't believe the range only used to be a few meters). MoW has/had it's place in healing but imo has pretty much fallen behind as a way to heal.
    Well I appreciate your tone Emachine. Thank you for that.

    And I understand it won't be an exact comparison. I was actually giving serious thought to using a one-handed sword and shield a few weeks back, crafted me a sword and everything and went about some solo work with it to see how I liked it. The results were not what I hoped. My damage seemed to take a big hit, and I couldn't even clear out regular trash pulls in Warg Pens without dying. Pulls I usually breezed through with my Great Sword. That convinced me that the damage difference between them was too big for me to live with.

    But after reading some of these posts stating the contrary, I've decided to take another stab at it and renew my interest and test it once again. I just figured I'd share my results, and show how the damage numbers on my attacks change from one to the other as a way to contrast. It may interest some, others may find it faulty and a waste of time to view. I'm content with either reaction, especially if it's done with the dignity you have shown. Those responses of a more aggressive and negative nature I will attempt to take in stride

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    went about some solo work with it to see how I liked it. The results were not what I hoped. My damage seemed to take a big hit, and I couldn't even clear out regular trash pulls in Warg Pens without dying. Pulls I usually breezed through with my Great Sword. That convinced me that the damage difference between them was too big for me
    Yeah, the test I did showed a twenty some percent difference. In group play where your job isn't to worry about dps I'd say 1h or 2h is up for debate but solo ~25% is way too big of difference. Your first impression was spot on, 2 hander all the way.

  5. #130
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Emachine View Post
    Yeah, the test I did showed a twenty some percent difference. In group play where your job isn't to worry about dps I'd say 1h or 2h is up for debate but solo ~25% is way too big of difference. Your first impression was spot on, 2 hander all the way.
    But the kicker, our DPS isn't large enough (we're half a DPS class at best) that it's not needed in endgame content where HoH is becoming dominant again =/

    So again, it all goes back to what we're doing.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  6. #131
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    If you take a hoh captain instead of a mini you have a fully healed 6man with 4 dps instead of 3 and half. It's just faster to take a captain instead of a mini.

    HoH is a lot better. I'm usually at 2.5k hps...if I'm slacking. 3k+ is normal and 5k if there are pets.
    how much of that healing is actually effective though? my guess is that a majority of that is overhealing that does nothing other than pad the CA numbers. a good minstrel is going to significantly increase the dps of every member of the group with anthems (granted a lot of minstrels still haven't managed to grasp how important these are for some reason). i mean i see that argument for fitting in an extra dps but personally i would rather do it by dropping the tank (sadly). 4 champs + MoW capt + mins is probably the best group for almost all of the six mans.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000d123b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    The [url="http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com"]Noldor[/url] of Arkenstone

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Souku View Post
    how much of that healing is actually effective though? my guess is that a majority of that is overhealing that does nothing other than pad the CA numbers.
    Yes and no, just because of the nature of our healing. Since a lot of our healing comes from hots we have to preset our hots before the damage is done. So basically all our healing is overhealing until it isn't. It's not useless or superfluous it's just the nature of how you have to use hots. You have to keep them up before the damage occurs, not after.
    Last edited by Armitas; Mar 25 2013 at 07:02 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000c7eb3/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [CENTER]
    [/CENTER]

  8. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    But the kicker, our DPS isn't large enough (we're half a DPS class at best) that it's not needed in endgame content where HoH is becoming dominant again =/

    So again, it all goes back to what we're doing.
    Yeah, when in a group our personal contribution is a pretty small percent (I'm of the argument that if you have a shield, use it) but when solo it's 100%.

    I recall switching to sword and board in my 20s or 30s to finish a skirmish I was having trouble with. I stuck with that setup until Moria. At that point fights were lasting forever and at the end of them I'd be almost completely drained of power. When I switched back to the 2h, it was like night and day. More power and less time in combat. Can't believe it took me so long to switch.

  9. #134
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,203
    Quote Originally Posted by Emachine View Post
    Yeah, when in a group our personal contribution is a pretty small percent (I'm of the argument that if you have a shield, use it) but when solo it's 100%.
    While I'm sold on making a 1-H and using it when doing HOH in a raid setting, biggest thing holding me back is the cost/benefit. I don't spend THAT much time doing HOH in raid. For most of the smaller content, I'm blitzing through in LtC (or am in HOH and don't need mitigations to speak of). I'm doing more HOH than I used to thanks to the RC/VS winning combo. But I tend to want to optimize my weapons. That means the way I build weapons a 2nd age's cost is something like:
    Symbol
    ~12 SOE (could be much worse depending on how the ID/legacies go, could be less too)
    Scroll of Delving
    3 star-lit crystals
    1 crystal of remembrance
    30K shards
    12 T9 relics
    Compendium V4

    The resources used are considerable, valued on the rough order of 1000 gold on the AH. I have most of that and can get the rest, so I COULD do it. And if I get the Captain gold shield, which I'm casually trying to do without grinding for it, I'll certainly pull the trigger. But for now I just feeling ambivalent about the expenditure.

  10. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    While I'm sold on making a 1-H and using it when doing HOH in a raid setting, biggest thing holding me back is the cost/benefit. I don't spend THAT much time doing HOH in raid. For most of the smaller content, I'm blitzing through in LtC (or am in HOH and don't need mitigations to speak of). I'm doing more HOH than I used to thanks to the RC/VS winning combo. But I tend to want to optimize my weapons. That means the way I build weapons a 2nd age's cost is something like:
    Symbol
    ~12 SOE (could be much worse depending on how the ID/legacies go, could be less too)
    Scroll of Delving
    3 star-lit crystals
    1 crystal of remembrance
    30K shards
    12 T9 relics
    Compendium V4

    The resources used are considerable, valued on the rough order of 1000 gold on the AH. I have most of that and can get the rest, so I COULD do it. And if I get the Captain gold shield, which I'm casually trying to do without grinding for it, I'll certainly pull the trigger. But for now I just feeling ambivalent about the expenditure.
    I don't feel you'd get enough benefit out of crystals on a 1H weapon to justify using them. (Same logic as the DPS lost from 2H to 1H, though it's not really made up in healing... just cost saved in this case.) There's not really enough important majors to justify a Remembrance crystal, and it's not like you'll have enough points to spend on everything as it is, so really in that case you just unlock an extra stat legacy or something. You can also save on relics by going with the T6 True Setting (crit/mastery/fate) and T9 regular gem, which ends up giving you about the same crit and mastery as, say, T9 True setting and T9 True gem. You lose maybe 100 of each at most, and again, much cheaper to make.

    Personally I've got gold and relics coming out of my ears, so any investment I can put on my 2H I can simultaneously put on my 1H. I do skip both types of crystals for captain weapons though. (Think I may have put one crystal on the 2H 'cause I got one from a drop and ran out of other toons to put it on.)

    Also, I kind of went nuts on captain. I have something like 9 LIs, 7 of which have the full relic load? So I know all about optimizing. I actually feel sad that I can't make any more LIs 'cause then I'd have no room to level trash ones. (Probably the only person on LotRO that misses working on LIs!)
    [CENTER][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/tindragon/Base.png[/IMG]
    Steam: Sneakeh Snake[/CENTER]

  11. #136
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Eh, I've been using the Crystal of Remembrance as a free stat legacy more than anything else.

    As far as hoH + 1H.... I've had fairly good success with that healing 3 mans, and I like the extra healing boost it gives there.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  12. #137
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    You should come over to my server and take a look at the GLFF. People are specifically asking for HoH Captains for the new raids all the time - so there is obviously demand for them.
    I would add the point that sometimes 3man and 6man T1 farms ask for a captain to heal and tank. School, Library, Thardur and Sambrog are a few instances where i had to fill both roles. Not having a shield really made my work difficult and i can hardly argue that using a 2-h would increase my contribution to group DPS in teams full of hunters and glass cannon champions. trust me : when you farm Sambrog with 4 hunters and a dps champ things go much smoother with a shield, even a sub-par one.

    Most of the time i am running HoH anyway. If i had a S&B option, i would also be able to better tank when required. Captanking makes farm runs goes faster because 6-man T1 are run with 5 DPS instead of 4 or 3 and a half.

    Suggested build for captaking in HoH:
    5b removing FnD and using SfW, improved routing cry for forced attacks, Turn of the tide for stuns.
    Armour 2:2:2 for 0s Rallying Crys, tank cloak and jewellery.

    The ability to fully use our might for blocking without giving up the 1m VS of HoH can make the Captain the most desired member of a group in T1 farms.
    Last edited by Nascephor; Mar 25 2013 at 03:35 PM.

  13. #138
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,203
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Eh, I've been using the Crystal of Remembrance as a free stat legacy more than anything else.

    As far as hoH + 1H.... I've had fairly good success with that healing 3 mans, and I like the extra healing boost it gives there.
    As to the first point, yeah. +55 might with no investment is nice for healing and/or DPS....

    As to the second, which 3 mans do you find need the now superior healing of HOH? Most of them are now so easy that to the extent healing is needed (if you have a good tank very little) I usually find LtC more than up to the task?

  14. #139
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    As to the second, which 3 mans do you find need the now superior healing of HOH? Most of them are now so easy that to the extent healing is needed (if you have a good tank very little) I usually find LtC more than up to the task?
    Eh, I do a ton of PUGing (and prefer doing the 3 mans on T2 HM), so I'd rather have the extra healing there in case I need it. If I'm running with people that I know, I'd defintely consider running with LtC.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  15. #140
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Eh, I do a ton of PUGing (and prefer doing the 3 mans on T2 HM), so I'd rather have the extra healing there in case I need it. If I'm running with people that I know, I'd defintely consider running with LtC.
    The only noticeable difference between healing some of the 3-mans in a PUG and healing them in a group of friends (in LtC) is that when PUGing you're likely to also end up holding aggro pretty successfully in addition to being the only healer. That's probably true in several situations though, so I could see how you'd want the extra heals to keep yourself alive. Also, school is so stupidly easy (or Library? Lligash the Blade one) you can actually solo it LtC (minus challenge, of course).
    [CENTER][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/tindragon/Base.png[/IMG]
    Steam: Sneakeh Snake[/CENTER]

  16. #141
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    158
    I use a 2 hander. Although the reason I use it was because back at 65, you would actually run out of power with a one hander (Power Banner flasback). Also, I always fancied the cosmetic of them. As it stands now, you could do either effectively for healing. Probably 2H for DPS and S&B for tanking.

    Cas
    Last edited by Coyote503; Mar 29 2013 at 05:50 AM.
    Viva Lotro!

  17. #142
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    1
    I think this thread has already gotten off track of it intended purpose and has gone to the min/max debate revolving around healing that I hated back in WoW for Pallies. But if it's off track of its original purpose already, can I ask again about tips for which is best for tanking? I know that the LoM trait line allows for blocking with a 2h, but it seems like you'd have to go with a sword and shield to be effective. Any discussions I see on the topic don't really touch on weapon choice, though I have seen more 1h compared to 2h use when it is discussed.

    I know this was answered in a post earlier, but is there a good way to decide between 2h and 1h tanking for Captains? Honestly, with the revamp I'd like to see the devs give more choice in the matter to Captains (for both LoM and HoH), but my personal feeling is that a Captain (in LotR) should be leading the charge with a 2h, no matter their role.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b2250000000e074b/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  18. #143
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600
    Quote Originally Posted by Berophant View Post
    I think this thread has already gotten off track of it intended purpose and has gone to the min/max debate revolving around healing that I hated back in WoW for Pallies. But if it's off track of its original purpose already, can I ask again about tips for which is best for tanking? I know that the LoM trait line allows for blocking with a 2h, but it seems like you'd have to go with a sword and shield to be effective. Any discussions I see on the topic don't really touch on weapon choice, though I have seen more 1h compared to 2h use when it is discussed.

    I know this was answered in a post earlier, but is there a good way to decide between 2h and 1h tanking for Captains? Honestly, with the revamp I'd like to see the devs give more choice in the matter to Captains (for both LoM and HoH), but my personal feeling is that a Captain (in LotR) should be leading the charge with a 2h, no matter their role.
    Halberd special is +threat on each attack - which is why the 2H tanking even exists.

    S&B will give you better survivability because the stats on the shield >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stats on the halberd.

    You can run with other 2H's while tanking, but they aren't going to be as attractive as the halberd.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  19. #144
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Halberd special is +threat on each attack - which is why the 2H tanking even exists.

    S&B will give you better survivability because the stats on the shield >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stats on the halberd.

    You can run with other 2H's while tanking, but they aren't going to be as attractive as the halberd.
    Would the 2H sword offer 2% parry as opposed to the 1H sword's 1%?
    [CENTER][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/tindragon/Base.png[/IMG]
    Steam: Sneakeh Snake[/CENTER]

  20. #145
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    I would add the point that sometimes 3man and 6man T1 farms ask for a captain to heal and tank. School, Library, Thardur and Sambrog are a few instances where i had to fill both roles. Not having a shield really made my work difficult and i can hardly argue that using a 2-h would increase my contribution to group DPS in teams full of hunters and glass cannon champions. trust me : when you farm Sambrog with 4 hunters and a dps champ things go much smoother with a shield, even a sub-par one.

    Most of the time i am running HoH anyway. If i had a S&B option, i would also be able to better tank when required. Captanking makes farm runs goes faster because 6-man T1 are run with 5 DPS instead of 4 or 3 and a half.

    Suggested build for captaking in HoH:
    5b removing FnD and using SfW, improved routing cry for forced attacks, Turn of the tide for stuns.
    Armour 2:2:2 for 0s Rallying Crys, tank cloak and jewellery.

    The ability to fully use our might for blocking without giving up the 1m VS of HoH can make the Captain the most desired member of a group in T1 farms.
    I can understand your point here. I have ended up tanking and healing on a few pugs I've been in by accident, so I can see how a Captain wanting to purposely both heal and tank would find wearing a shield ideal. But I think that's more of a fluke due to the general ease of a lot of the newer scaled content (such as the Great Barrows as you mentioned). I would be skeptical of it's success in the more difficult tier2 variety 6 mans. But if you're running a lot of library/School/Thardur/Sambrog as you mentioned, your point is well taken.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 05 2013 at 02:38 AM.

 

 
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload