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  1. #1

    Question Why all 3-Man and 6-Man 85 instances are easier then 65 instances before U10 ?!!

    For exemple, I solo Stoneheight T2C 85 as Glory Champ, even by going afk during last fight !
    The 2 bosses have less morale than in T1 (~120 + 100) and absolutely no DPS (except the AoE)

    We tried Haudh Valandil at 3 people (Warden, Mini and me, Champ), not top geared (Hytbold, no gold jewels) : we had our morale nearly at maximum, all the time, even against bosses !

    I even don't talk about School/Library, it is a joke : I can tank nearly all mobs (several groups of 3) at same time at School !

    What happened with U10 ?
    Last edited by Castorix; Feb 28 2015 at 11:01 AM.

  2. #2
    Yeah damage from trash is scaled in a rather timid manner. Its laughable. Most 6-man can be 3-manned. Mobs hit you for 200-400 dmg, landscape mobs in Rohan hits way harder. That's wrong on so many levels.

    But considering I will probably run these instances 500 times each to get a gold item, or give up trying, maybe they should be a bit of a face roll? I mean all I usually get is a bounty. If these instances actually needed coordination and effort, took ages to finish, you would probably be rather pissed after getting bounty 30 times in a row. I would. But they should at least be on the same level as Erebor 3-man, in terms of damage and challenge.

    Have to say tho that Sari-Sumi last boss T2c is still a pain in the butt. After zerging every new instance w/o even real healer or proper tank, it was refreshing to face a boss where you needed to active your brain again, slightly.

    Seems update 10 is all about mass-farming. Easy instances that any group-constellation can do effortless in a few minutes, while the low droprate and the frustration from always getting a bounty, is the only challenge.

  3. #3
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    I decided to lvl alts until the next expansion. This isn't gonna get better, and while I've usually thought they should polish existing content before letting out new expansions - scrap this guys. Scrap the whole RoR, move on to the next expansion and please, PLEASE don't screw this up as you did with RoR (I mean, RoI was a bit sa in some ways, but not even my wildest pessimistic dreams did I think the already meh Rohan expansion could get worse with instances). If the best things in a whole cycle are mithril coins and no more forced emotes...
    Quit.

    Find me on Steam and ESO, same name.

  4. #4
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    Remember, there was a damage bug before U10. It's entirely likely they scaled the fights according to the previous wrong damage, and now that it's fixed, stuff is cake.

    Lost Temple is even more challenging now than it was at 65 (due to new mechanic). SS too. SG is on par.

    (But yes, one of our kin wardens spends all his day farming school solo.)
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  5. #5
    I'm sorry but there's no way LT is harder now that at 65. I found it easier at 85 than it was to run it at 75 while it was 65.
    And the new 6 man, bells, is a piece of cake too.
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  6. #6
    The trouble is, in some ways the easier instances make things better. I´m in a social kin with a lot of extremely lovable kinnies of which some are however a bit useless in instancing. With the easier instances, since frustrating moments are rarer, I find myself running stuff with them a lot more, and they get better in the process.

    Maybe its time for a T3 mode.

  7. #7
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    Because they adjusted too far in the faceroll direction when they tried to change something affecting damage of enemies in scaled instances. They and many players felt certain things hit abnormally hard in U9.

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ase-fix-in-U10
    This is not the OP for what folks ended up calling the "tactical damage bug", the overly scaled damage you'd see for stuff like BG armors (which were still totally do-able), but it's recent and relevant and has a dev comment. Only thing that don't fit there is Dargnahk. That ain't a scaled instance, just similar symptoms.

    So the devs felt they oughta adjust. But I think they overadjusted. Like Fornost was just great the way it was.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    Remember, there was a damage bug before U10. It's entirely likely they scaled the fights according to the previous wrong damage, and now that it's fixed, stuff is cake.

    Lost Temple is even more challenging now than it was at 65 (due to new mechanic). SS too. SG is on par.
    No just no, SG has been nerfed into the ground with easier boss fights and the massive reduction in trash mobs between bosses. It's much easier than the original version and so is 99% of the scaled content. Things either need to be buffed up or a T3 introduced for those of us that don't want to sleepwalk through content and still beat it. We'll probably just get the same old instances with scaled morale next xpac though since that seems to be Turbine's masterplan. More faceroll for all!
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  9. #9
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    I did get a nice pounding in the sword hall, I didn't remember that many enemies spawning right at the beginning.
    The rest of the instances are rather easy right now.

  10. #10
    Same thing with Glinghant : the second part was very difficult at 75 with the huge quantity of mobs and a very good challenge to do it at 3 or 4 people
    Now, they have DPS of ~65 mobs :-(
    And the challenge.... really... : AoE on adds when boss is going to die : all killed in <10 seconds

    And 8 seals for this joke => another thing I cannot understand :
    Raids : 2 seals
    School/Lib : 3 seals in a few minutes
    Annuminas instances for babies : 8 seals
    Where is the logic ?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    For exemple, I solo Stoneheight T2C 85 as Glory Champ, even by going afk during last fight !
    The 2 bosses have less morale than in T1 (~120 + 100) and absolutely no DPS (except the AoE)

    We tried Haudh Valandil at 3 people (Warden, Mini and me, Champ), not top geared (Hytbold, no gold jewels) : we had our morale nearly at maximum, all the time, even against bosses !

    I even don't talk about School/Library, it is a joke : I can tank nearly all mobs (several groups of 3) at same time at School !

    What happened with U10 ?!


    Ok, Mr glory champ, i dare u to upload sth tc2 solo on your champ, youtube it and give us link.

    Please.

  12. #12
    I'm guessing 80% of all the scaled instances can be run without a healer. That's just pathetic.

  13. #13
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    I will have to agree. With few exceptions, the new and scaled instances are no more than a joke.

    I already managed to solo School* on my mini without much difficulty. Seen champs and burgs do the same; Wardens could do it while afk.

    This 'expansion' is all about people farming instances that take 5 minutes all day long. Honestly, all people have been doing since RoR was released is farming: First BG, then Hytbold, then Flight, now everything else.






    *I think it was school, or whichever one doesn't have the ravens.
    And then, forever remains that change from G to E minor.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Because they adjusted too far in the faceroll direction when they tried to change something affecting damage of enemies in scaled instances. They and many players felt certain things hit abnormally hard in U9.

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ase-fix-in-U10
    This is not the OP for what folks ended up calling the "tactical damage bug", the overly scaled damage you'd see for stuff like BG armors (which were still totally do-able), but it's recent and relevant and has a dev comment. Only thing that don't fit there is Dargnahk. That ain't a scaled instance, just similar symptoms.

    So the devs felt they oughta adjust. But I think they overadjusted. Like Fornost was just great the way it was.
    I completely agree, the damage was fixed and was much appreciated by non-heavies but it was toned down too much. Now instead of being 1-shotted, I'm being tickled. Although no the dread-mists are hitting on par (imo) for fornost atm... 10k+ crits was not great, doable with a careful strategy but everything else in there was fine.

    Although to be fair these scaled instances are not being run blindly though there is plenty of room to improve them.
    Last edited by xDementedx; Mar 13 2013 at 11:01 PM.

  15. #15
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    Are they really any easier, though?

    Fornost Water Wing is pretty easy until you get to the Wraiths. They're much easier now than when the damage was bugged but still hit pretty hard. Combined with the silence mechanic I could see this giving poorly geared/inexperienced players a lot of trouble. I dunno what Earth is like on-level now since we just do it set to lvl 30 since there's no loot. Fire is pretty easy. Shadow challenge is definitely one of the tougher 6-man fights right now and requires both good healing/survivability and a ton of focused DPS on the boss.

    Other than that, what are we really comparing it to? How many people were running GB, Annuminas, School and Library at 85 until now? Maybe it's easier now than it was when we were farming these instances at 75 for S4M, but at that time we were relatively poorly geared - wearing crafted/quest gear, sometimes with pre-stat cap removal type stats, and either a 3rd age, a lvl 65 2nd or 1st age or possibly a 2nd age if they had run Draigoch at that point. Practically everyone running them now has decent jewelry (crafted and/or teal BoE drops) and a full set of teal raid armor with 2nd ages at least.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    How many people were running GB, Annuminas, School and Library at 85 until now?
    I was farming School/Lib, mainly School, for months before U10 to get all my Stat tomes + SL crystals
    At 75, I could not solo it
    At 85, I could, but the second boss with the 2 adds who heal themselves was hard and ranged tactical damages from last boss too
    Now, although my gear is not great, I can tank rather easily all mobs in last room (without using the tip to start challenge on 4th wave), and a friend warden of course more easily again.

    We were doing Annuminas instance too, at 4 people (our small kin has not a lot of 85) and it was impossible to do them at 85, bosses destroyed me if my healer was dead.
    Last edited by Castorix; Mar 14 2013 at 02:37 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    I'm guessing 80% of all the scaled instances can be run without a healer. That's just pathetic.
    Yep it is sad. As a LM when I do sambrog I recruit 5 other dps and I tank and self heal. The runs take 6-7 minutes. Yesterday I decided to challenge myself and do STh t2. I solo'd without death to the final boss. When I read the new challenge requirement of killing both guys within 10 seconds I recruited a cappy and got CM. They have definitely not scaled these instances very well. If you look at say goblins t2 3-man you get those nasty incurable 1800ish/tick wounds. I feel like that stuff should be on the scaled content and not faceroll mode.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    I'm guessing 80% of all the scaled instances can be run without a healer. That's just pathetic.
    and all of them can be run without a tank.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gylve View Post
    Are they really any easier, though?

    Fornost Water Wing is pretty easy until you get to the Wraiths. They're much easier now than when the damage was bugged but still hit pretty hard. Combined with the silence mechanic I could see this giving poorly geared/inexperienced players a lot of trouble. I dunno what Earth is like on-level now since we just do it set to lvl 30 since there's no loot. Fire is pretty easy. Shadow challenge is definitely one of the tougher 6-man fights right now and requires both good healing/survivability and a ton of focused DPS on the boss.

    Other than that, what are we really comparing it to? How many people were running GB, Annuminas, School and Library at 85 until now? Maybe it's easier now than it was when we were farming these instances at 75 for S4M, but at that time we were relatively poorly geared - wearing crafted/quest gear, sometimes with pre-stat cap removal type stats, and either a 3rd age, a lvl 65 2nd or 1st age or possibly a 2nd age if they had run Draigoch at that point. Practically everyone running them now has decent jewelry (crafted and/or teal BoE drops) and a full set of teal raid armor with 2nd ages at least.
    This is true, we are much more geared than 75 at the point and time of running these instances. Most started out with third ages to run these and no Draigoch gear initially. On top of that we were all trying to adjust to the new changes of stacking our main stat over having 600 to every stat. Partially some instances need a good bump up in difficulty (not just damage) to keep it fresh, though not so much the previous damage output.

  20. #20
    I've just tested Warg Pens (T1): they ruined it also.
    It was totally impossible to do it as champ before U10 (my max was 80, tank geared for boss), but now I soloed it without any difficulty, even without my tank gear.
    It just takes time at end to kill Kranklob, that's all.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castorix View Post
    I've just tested Warg Pens (T1): they ruined it also.
    It was totally impossible to do it as champ before U10 (my max was 80, tank geared for boss), but now I soloed it without any difficulty, even without my tank gear.
    It just takes time at end to kill Kranklob, that's all.
    Interesting, my capt can't get past the first boss (die when I'm stunned). Same issue I have soloing SH, getting stunned by bats dooms me.

    Anyway, on the main thesis, yeah, things have gotten pretty soft overall. School/lib were never really hard, but they are an utter joke now. I can solo Iorbars and Stoneheight...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Interesting, my capt can't get past the first boss (die when I'm stunned). Same issue I have soloing SH, getting stunned by bats dooms me.
    As champ, we have an anti-stun, "Blood Rage", although it costs morale (must not be used if morale is too low, otherwise, suicide...)
    But even stunned, he doesn't hit me hard now
    And there are bugs also : sometimes, ouargues he tries to awake don't come to help him...

    SH is harder. I only tried at 81 recently (78 max before U10), it was ok, and I will test 85, but not sure I can, because I'm also very often stunned by bats, and can be killed by them if there are too many (others bosses are easy)

  23. #23
    All instances are easier simply put it because;
    1. They nerfed them. I don't think it was turbine's intention on having these instance be of any "hard" difficulty at all, when they are actually not really "level cap content", if I am allowed to say that.
    2. They will naturally be easier, because even though they are scaled. There is still more progression than just level and stats. You got more skills in U10, you got more items, much better stats. More virtues, more everything.
    3. I hope you got better meanwhile . I mean I have done every single scaled before, so I know all the tactics pretty well already. That makes the instances more smooth too. + your skill level in other areas should also have increased.
    The instances were not designed around them, and they shouldn't. Some are still of a quite decent difficulty, and besides it would make the instances too hard for those it is actually meant for. If you want to beg for anything, beg for tier 3 , or something a long those lines. I still meet people who can't do every instance, not even tier 1.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frathir3 View Post
    All instances are easier simply put it because;
    1. They nerfed them. I don't think it was turbine's intention on having these instance be of any "hard" difficulty at all, when they are actually not really "level cap content", if I am allowed to say that.
    2. They will naturally be easier, because even though they are scaled. There is still more progression than just level and stats. You got more skills in U10, you got more items, much better stats. More virtues, more everything.
    Yes, but they have gotten ridiculous. Ran library last night with 2 capts and a champ in less than 6 minutes. Champ ran through entry up hall gathering maybe 15 mobs. We blew them up. Ran through central courtyard, up stairs, all the way straight to boss, gathering another 15-18 mobs. We blew them up, mostly before the boss activated. Killed boss (zzz). Ran all the way to other boss, gathering 15-18 mobs. Blew them up. Killed boss. Ran downstairs. I kited birds while boss was rapidly dispatched with basically no healing needed. Blew up birds. Opened "challenge" chest and got goodies and seals. Again, < 6 minutes.

    Library never was hard. But wow. Also ran all annuminas instances for the seals and hopes of gold items that didn't drop, likewise zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Guess it is what it is, but they have overshot bigtime from my point of view with the nerf.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Frathir3 View Post
    1. ...You got more skills in U10, you got more items, much better stats. More virtues, more everything.
    No, my stats were better before U10 : I lost all Hytbold bonuses ! (3 * 38)
    And I tested most of instances just after U10 came out, then with same gear with worse stats.

    And I don't talk about bugs/exploits in some instances, allowing to do T2C alone...
    (they ignore my bugs reports, then I stopped reporting them...)
    Last edited by Castorix; Mar 25 2013 at 02:15 PM.

 

 
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