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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    5

    DEFILER-can you damage

    hi
    What am I interested in defiler class is if can you make respectable damage, and use it with combination of debuffs to fight more solo (you to one freep,..), (maybe like the loremaster which can cast respectable damage), or must you stick with a group an only heal and debuff?
    thanks for anwsers

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    388
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombvojage View Post
    make respectable damage

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombvojage View Post
    hi
    What am I interested in defiler class is if can you make respectable damage, and use it with combination of debuffs to fight more solo (you to one freep,..), (maybe like the loremaster which can cast respectable damage), or must you stick with a group an only heal and debuff?
    thanks for anwsers
    DERP LOL


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Hamilton, NY
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    A defiler traited for DPS does about as much damage as a loremaster traited yellow.
    Maybe a loremaster's pet when traited yellow.

    Point is, it's bad.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    I didn't know that "defiler" and "DPS" could be put in the same sentence-like structure in any language.


    I learned something new today.

  6. #6
    A defiler's DPS is a bit like the Higgs boson; despite theories predicting its existence, there has been no proof yet.

    As I understand, by "solo'ing" you mean taking on freeps one-on-one. In that case, I've always been told that they're one of the easiest classes to win 1v1's on. I can believe that, but the player needs to have a decent idea of how to balance heals with any damage output. Any duel on a defiler is one of attrition: the aim is to keep your own health and power up while wearing down the other with small attacks that hopefully will add up to a fair bit.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27
    Venomorf scored a devastating hit with Fire Gourd on Pinmaster for 923 Fire damage to Morale. - r11 lm

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Ettenmoors
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    2,324
    No, and it never will as long as it can both debuff/main-heal.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Bombvojage View Post
    What am I interested in defiler class is if can you make respectable damage
    Defilers have the lowest DPS output in both faction. A standard hit (assuming max Audacity) will be 250ish while a crit will score 600ish (light/medium armour targets). Its that bad....


    Quote Originally Posted by Bombvojage View Post
    and use it with combination of debuffs
    Our debuffs still date from the SoA era and are completely obsolete now. Minus 325 vitality (about 1k morale) was good back then, when a light armour guy had about 5k morale pool but now, with a 15k minstrel for exemple, its very trivial. Simply dont worth being cast anymore. Our only worthy RoR debuff (Flies) has been nerfed to the ground and simply dont worth it anymore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bombvojage View Post
    to fight more solo (you to one freep,..)
    Soloing with a defiler is a war of attrition. If you encounter a fair freep, that will stay until hes defeated (and not sprint away), then yeah, its doable. But the Flies nerf will make this task even more tough now. in term of healing, the defiler (assuming healing traited and experienced player) will pull out a bit over a HoH captain but miles below a minstrel and leagues below RK.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitefox1313 View Post
    in term of healing, the defiler (assuming healing traited and experienced player) will pull out a bit over a HoH captain but miles below a minstrel and leagues below RK.
    There is one advantage to defiler healing though, and that is that you can keep HoTs on multiple people in a group at once, and once you get all your HoTs going on a target with some crit defense and rank heal bouns, they can be a tough nut to crack.


    if you trait crit you can get some nice heal crits too.



    so not "miles" below RK/mini, but better at diffrent situations of healing (def better at group healing VS mini/rk better at individual healing.

    overall a good defiler can get more HPS on a group (if they know how to tab and fear) than any mini/RK

  11. #11
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitefox1313 View Post
    Our debuffs still date from the SoA era and are completely obsolete now. Minus 325 vitality (about 1k morale) was good back then, when a light armour guy had about 5k morale pool but now, with a 15k minstrel for exemple, its very trivial. Simply dont worth being cast anymore.
    Personally I still like it for the -1300 tac mitigation aspect of it. It's not huge, but anything that raises your group's damage is good, right?

  12. #12
    Defiler - can you damage?
    No.

    And right now, not much else either. The critical Heal-over-time revision was applied to only 1 of our 4 heals over time, our debuffs are outdated by years, and the only powerful skill we had (flies) was nerfed to complete uselessness.

    Defilers are in a bad way right now, soloing on one (from my experience) is near impossible, and from my point of view and others, it'd be more wise to bring a Warleader into you group instead of a defiler, they can res incombat, banners are awesome, their bubble works on the move and doesn't redirect damage to you, and their heals are amazing.

    Sincerely,
    The QQfiler.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    153
    Ah but defilers have slick flesh. Evry1 wants their flesh to be slick now.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormirel View Post
    Ah but defilers have slick flesh. Evry1 wants their flesh to be slick now.

  15. #15
    I agree that defilers are in pretty bad shape right now.
    Soloing is possible, but the fundamental tactic is exhaustion of an opponent, not dps burst - it's actually impossible to talk about "dps bursts" in defilers case, considering most damage comes from reflect damage, fire gourds and a couple of melee skills, of which one has a chance to stun the opponent, thus giving you time to apply the debuffs on him/heals on yourself. Flies have been nerfed to the point of uselessnes.
    Speaking of debuffs, they are fairly decent, but a bit outdated, considering beast stats of nowadays. Another matter is heal intensity - if you trait for maximum heals, you sacrifice survivability (and vice versa), and i guess it's up to you to find the balance you're most comfortable with.
    Defilers pre-U10 were pretty much beast-mode, but ever since the latest update came out, i'm getting shreded by insane crits from skilled players, the difference, in my experience is the most visible with burgs/champs.

    P.S.: it goes without saying that Armor value, Resistance and Evade pots are essential.

  16. #16
    I dont think there is such a thing as defiler DPS. And personally I think the deflier is the main healing class in the Moors right now. Wl are great dont get me wrong but they can switch from a healing stance to a dps stance pretty quick. As far as comparing the Defiler to a Minnie that is a joke. I trait healing 100% of the time and I do ok .... The biggest problem I have is beign Grey barred more then half the time. Defilers need some love. I would be happy if they just fixed the flies a little bit and gave the Defiler something .... I can hear the freeps now when I say this....... Something like the Lm SI. Or just some Ohhhh sh*t skills.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    19
    As well as not being able to dps that well, we can't debuff very well either.

    Curse of the Melancholic Heart appears broken.
    A fellow delfiler tested this on a freep and the outgoing healing rating nor heal amounts changed.

    We also tested this with two defilers, using Fell Restoration as it's our only fixed amount heal. Values were the same with or without the debuff and my outgoing healing rating stayed the same.

  18. #18
    There are a couple posts of people testing apparent defiler bugs spread around in different threads. I think it would help if someone that has tested some hard numbers started a defiler bugs thread to encourage testing these out further so they go beyond speculation and we can get a dev's attention.

    If indeed melancholic heart is broken, that's certainly depressing. As to the second debuff you mention, not sure what debuff you were testing with the fell restoration on the other defiler since melancholic heart wouldn't affect your outgoing healing.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    UK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    ... since melancholic heart wouldn't affect your outgoing healing.
    Uhm... what? That's exactly what it is supposed to do.

    http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Skill...ancholic_Heart

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Sniz View Post
    If indeed melancholic heart is broken, that's certainly depressing. As to the second debuff you mention, not sure what debuff you were testing with the fell restoration on the other defiler since melancholic heart wouldn't affect your outgoing healing.
    No second debuff. We were checking Melancholic Heart. Sparred another defiler, they use Melancholic Heart on me, check if outgoing healing rating changed and cast fell restoration once, wait till debuff wears off and use FR once more just incase outgoing healing rating not changing is a display bug, compare heal numbers, cry, remove MH from skillbar

    Just thought I'd highlight the issue for other defilers as it's a skill I previously used one hell of a lot.

  21. #21
    Hm, I don't trust spar to test. Good to hint at a problem, but it really needs to be confirmed against a freep's healing output.

  22. #22
    I was able to set up a brief test of melancholic heart against a friend's LM, and their healing output of water lore on themself dropped to around the expected -25% level. So in this test it appeared the skill is working. Hopefully others can run tests against other freep classes to further confirm.

 

 

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