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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Not using Motivate to counter Inferno would be a viable strategy if Inferno was the only thing people were taking damage from. It's not. The bigger morale pool helps counter catapult hits, adds, the troll, etc. If your healers can't heal the extra bit of damage from Inferno if everyone has Motivated, the problem is with your healers, not with your buff.
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  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Not using Motivate to counter Inferno would be a viable strategy if Inferno was the only thing people were taking damage from. It's not. The bigger morale pool helps counter catapult hits, adds, the troll, etc. If your healers can't heal the extra bit of damage from Inferno if everyone has Motivated, the problem is with your healers, not with your buff.
    catapults do 50% of your maximum morale as physical damage (which is then reduced by physical mitigation), but it does not really count, because you should not be standing in one all the time.

    But yeah, the archer aoe and the distibuted damage are the biggest problems.

    I still dont really know, what is the best (we are still experimenting), but i would definitly take SotD and explicitly NO othbreaker, because you cant really do damage there (except on the adds, but oathie on them .. i does not help much, you need to be able to manage them without an oathbreaker). The question is now: HoH for the more healing (to counter the aoe) or group shield brother (to improve the damage on the reinforcements .. i see reasons to take each of them, not sure, what is better.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,135
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Not using Motivate to counter Inferno would be a viable strategy if Inferno was the only thing people were taking damage from. It's not. The bigger morale pool helps counter catapult hits, adds, the troll, etc. If your healers can't heal the extra bit of damage from Inferno if everyone has Motivated, the problem is with your healers, not with your buff.
    I agree. The taboo against motivate on that fight is silly.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    121
    Some actual numbers to crunch about LtC or HoH on single target/ hard to get defeat responses situations:

    first, what my tips said when equipped 5B/HoH:

    VS: 438-626 + 280 every 3s for 27s
    RC 938-1340 + 49-69 every 3s for 15s
    WoC 718-1026 + 127-182 every 3s for 12s
    Inspire shield-brother 181-258 every 3s for 15s.

    Inferno is a pressure type damage ( affects entire fellowship) and going Shield brother (assuming captain as single healer) we can put our "per tick" heal at the 637-789 range when all ticks are going, or half that much without defeat events to pump RC.
    For countering Inferno i am thinking that Inspire shield brother works best (15% incoming healing + 15% less damage) than song brother ( +25% healing), but i am not sure. Also Inferno makes a strong case for + ticks on WoC when dealing with strong pressure type damage.
    Now the LtC numbers ( 5R, NfW+tactical prowess) :
    VS: 227-334 +180/3s
    RC: 650-929 +34-49/3s
    WoC: 484-691 + 86-122/3s
    Inspire: 120-171/3s

    Per tick heal: 420-522.

    Going LtC against inferno seems suicidal.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Some actual numbers to crunch about LtC or HoH on single target/ hard to get defeat responses situations:

    first, what my tips said when equipped 5B/HoH:

    VS: 438-626 + 280 every 3s for 27s
    RC 938-1340 + 49-69 every 3s for 15s
    WoC 718-1026 + 127-182 every 3s for 12s
    Inspire shield-brother 181-258 every 3s for 15s.

    Inferno is a pressure type damage ( affects entire fellowship) and going Shield brother (assuming captain as single healer) we can put our "per tick" heal at the 637-789 range when all ticks are going, or half that much without defeat events to pump RC.
    For countering Inferno i am thinking that Inspire shield brother works best (15% incoming healing + 15% less damage) than song brother ( +25% healing), but i am not sure. Also Inferno makes a strong case for + ticks on WoC when dealing with strong pressure type damage.
    Now the LtC numbers ( 5R, NfW+tactical prowess) :
    VS: 227-334 +180/3s
    RC: 650-929 +34-49/3s
    WoC: 484-691 + 86-122/3s
    Inspire: 120-171/3s

    Per tick heal: 420-522.

    Going LtC against inferno seems suicidal.
    My HoH numbers:

    VS: 524-748 + 357 per tick
    RC: 1103-1575 + 56-80 morale per tick
    WoC: 840-1200 + 149-213 per tick
    SB Inspire: 210-301 per tick

    I agree Shield Brother is most likely the most fitting for Inferno as both bonuses are nice and I prefer taking less damage in the first place rather than healing more. WoC is a matter of preference I guess, but I don't think the HoT from WoC is big enough to bother with the legacy unless you really want to.

    Inferno itself isn't that bad, the problem comes when people are taking damage all the time and suddenly gets hit by a distributed attack from trolls or AoE from an Archer. That's also why ignoring Motivate is a bad idea as being able to handle spike damage is much more important than having to heal a bit more all the time.

    Also, don't neglect the value of critical rating, especially when you have traited Relentless Optimism. The extra magnitude on critical heals helps insanely much, so if you're not capped on crit and you're to pick between tactical mastery and critical rating, I would pick critical rating.
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Mar 22 2013 at 02:00 PM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    1,477
    Quote Originally Posted by Nascephor View Post
    Some actual numbers to crunch about LtC or HoH on single target/ hard to get defeat responses situations:

    first, what my tips said when equipped 5B/HoH:

    VS: 438-626 + 280 every 3s for 27s
    RC 938-1340 + 49-69 every 3s for 15s
    WoC 718-1026 + 127-182 every 3s for 12s
    Inspire shield-brother 181-258 every 3s for 15s.

    Inferno is a pressure type damage ( affects entire fellowship) and going Shield brother (assuming captain as single healer) we can put our "per tick" heal at the 637-789 range when all ticks are going, or half that much without defeat events to pump RC.
    For countering Inferno i am thinking that Inspire shield brother works best (15% incoming healing + 15% less damage) than song brother ( +25% healing), but i am not sure. Also Inferno makes a strong case for + ticks on WoC when dealing with strong pressure type damage.
    Now the LtC numbers ( 5R, NfW+tactical prowess) :
    VS: 227-334 +180/3s
    RC: 650-929 +34-49/3s
    WoC: 484-691 + 86-122/3s
    Inspire: 120-171/3s

    Per tick heal: 420-522.

    Going LtC against inferno seems suicidal.
    3 quibbles with what's led you to your conclusion:

    1
    My heal disparity going from 5b HoH to 5r/1b/1y MoW is waaay less than yours somehow.

    Like, talking a 246 HoT on VS and 164-235 HoT on Sh-Inspire in MoW. 260 HoT on VS when I swap 4CotW/2Mene
    vs
    318 HoT and 208-297 HoT on Sh-Inspire in HoH. 336 HoT on VS when I swap 4CotW/2Mene

    Might be that I have higher OGH from a combination of things, making the additive bonuses from HoH mean less to me than to you. So the more you gear, the less relative heals HoH has over MoW.

    2
    Mind that your RC will on average be up more often when traited MoW than HoH, which can also affect how often VS is up with 4-HHealer. Incorporating availability of HoTs and not just comparing maximums is important. Swapping to CotW for VS kinda changes that around of course.

    3
    Remember that Shield bro is less on the fellowship, To Arms being only -5% incoming damage to your fellowship. Also, Shield-brother to-arms doesn't even work against inferno. Tested in lvl 20 BfE--real quick and easy, just have your herald hold Laugshat (give him melee troll so he can better hold against your heals) and whittle down Vadok and soon enough you'll get Inferno. I figured it wouldn't because Shield-bro To Arms, along with other forums of "-incoming damage" is actually source mitigation (melee/ranged/tactical, watch how popping To Arms ups those types of defenses in your character panel) and the inferno is seemingly considered source-less. Same with catapults. Type mitigation works for inferno though, and catapults presumably.
    Even if 5% source mitigation from To Arms did affect inferno, you'd likely be better off with NfW+RO instead of NfW+Tact Prowess when Red, if that slot is to be used defensively (5s of 5% source mits vs better crit heals).
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    158
    I think HoH is definitely the way to go atm. The crit changes have made our heals much stronger than before and it appears our DPS a little bit less. Parsing some numbers while in Battle for Erabor, I was getting about 1.1k DPS and 1k HPS in MoW. Then I went HoH and was getting about 1k DPS and 1500 HPS. Those numbers have gone up on with FAers and better gear, but the spread is about the same.

    Also ran Acid challenge in Orthanc the other day for fun. I was HoH and other captain was MoW. I had 1800 DPS and 2000 HPS and he had 1850 DPS and 1200 HPS. Seemed to support my BfE parsing...

    It really feels like the days of the MoW captain are gone and we are back to HoH like we were pre ROI.

    Cas
    Viva Lotro!

 

 
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