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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    684

    Update 10 - Unannounced Mac Fixes

    On first glance I was ready to give them both barrels again! for the seeming inertia on the Mac client bugs and missing functions which have not been fixed since closed beta back in last summer and into official release.

    The official Update 10 Patch Notes make no mention at all of Mac specific fixes (in fact fixes are often poorly identified). They can be found here;

    Update 10, Against the Shadow,Part II Official

    One small note at the end though got my attention;

    Graphics and Effects
    Resolved a number of issues with openGL rendering.
    Aside from not calling it what it is, OpenGL, it gave little indication if this was for the PC client which also has OpenGL components, or might in fact also include the Mac client. So having updated LOTRO Mac client today and making a quick check in Bree which was quite a graphical mess when updated in Update 9, it appears that in fact the OpenGL fixes do in fact include the Mac client!

    A quick summary of fixes I have noted in a fast test session today:

    • OpenGL fixes have resolved graphical glitches related to High Quality Lighting and Specular Lighting
    • OpenGL fixes or other work appears to have enabled more environmental details (more grass moving etc.) with higher detail settings.
    • The inability to type in the chat window when changing from Windowed mode to Full Screen or vice versa has been fixed.

    Previously it was necessary to disable both High Quality Lighting and Specular Lighting in Advanced Graphics io Options to avoid 'glowing bush' syndrome and buildings flashing alternate colours; shadows messed up and clipping of buiuldings so you could see right them etc.

    These issues appear to have been addressed in this Update 10. Re-enabling both High Quality Lighting and Specular Lighting with Ultra High settings did not cause any of the previous issues. So from a quick initial check it looks like the OpenGL has been fixed or updated which is great news to at last see action on the Mac client. These effects really do make a lot of difference in the wider landscape also, especially High Quality Lighting.

    It is now possible to travel through the landscape without bushes flickering/ glowing like beacons on/off as you move. And to fully appreciate the detail of higher settings where your Mac allows for this.

    On top of this I also note more detail in the frills and environment with grass swaying in lawn areas that were previously static (some ground detail did move before but the range of different plants reacting in this way is noticeable) Another improvement of the all important immersion. More good news!

    Yes, the mapping and textures are pretty old now but this is helping to get the most out of what they have from the game engine. Yes we miss some DX10 and DX11 effects but that is an inherent limitation of the OpenGL route and to be fair, Apples' very poor support for the platform to date.

    And, from this quick run through I can confirm that, whether directly related to the OpenGL fixes or more underlying work, the bane of typing becoming impossible after changing between Windowed and Full Screen mode has also been fixed. swapping a number of times I was still able to enter text by typing and it working. Even more good news!! Hopefully this is also the case for others.

    I find Turbine very frustrating. The Mac client download is a total mess, there are still a good number of others bugs remaining in the Mac client including many that continue to frustrate new players trying to even get the client installed or updated. Also, continued crashing and memoiry issues in higher level areas from the reports that keep getting posted here.

    But, I must give credit to them for at least some movement in addressing some Mac issues. These do make a difference to the player experience. I just wish that they would ensure that we as Mac players can actually test properly in the Bullroarer server for test clients. And that they really sort out their line of communication because by being vague and not including that bit more detail of actual fixes in the path notes, just leaves most players shrugging their shoulders and unaware of these things.

    We still miss a lot of the functionality of the Graphics options including the sliders (except Ambient Light) and this testing is limited to lower level areas. How these effect Rohan content I can't say.

    Let's hope that Turbine continue with these efforts and find a way to actually communicate them to the Mac players.

    It would be interesting to hear of any other changes you notice or if there are issues outstanding (Rohan crashes etc.) or new ones cropping up.
    Last edited by Toddlepip; Mar 08 2013 at 01:12 PM.
    [I]Gaspard Strongpole[/I] - Hunter on [B]Eldar[/B] : [COLOR="#FF0000"]Mac Player[/COLOR] - iMac/27-inch, Late 2013/ 3.4 GHz Intel Core i5/ 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3/ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4096 MB/OS X 10.10.5

  2. #2
    I think I'm on the old settings, I didn't change them upwards since the update.
    I did notice strange lighting effects on objects like walls from my hunters campfire. I'll boost the graphics again when I get on but the lag in Snowburn is ridiculous as it is.
    Other problems which are probably not just mac related, your tracked legendary weapons are no longer on the screen when you log in, you have to re-track them again, the hunter tracking is still not right as if the object being tracked is not close it doesn't appearing on the mini map sometimes, I did also notice traps failing at entrances in rhohan. Not setting at all.

    Client crashing is by far the most important thing to fix. In Rohan my client crashes almost every ten minutes, when I travel via milestone, fast horse or just go in and out of buildings. I am doing Hytbold now so travelling quite a bit.
    Turbine need to fix this ASAP.

    This is not an overheating issue this is a programming issue. If it was overheating it would happen at random it's only happening when you go to another area. I think it's the old windows xp iron pits thing with not enough memory allocated to the application.

  3. #3
    I was playing the Sambrog instance earlier and had quite a bit of trouble with complete blackness here and there; needed a guide to get me through the maze because it was nearly impossible in total darkness. I also have noticed quite a bit more crashing to desktop when entering Bree since U10. Not sure what they fixed or changed on the Mac side of things.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    103
    Yeah - while the graphical glitches were mildly annoying that certainly didn't stop me from playing exclusively on the Mac client. I had used the Mac client to level my first toon all the way through Rohan with only the rare occasional crash. But since Update 9 I have been crashing every session on either the first or second loading screen I go through. I had given up and switched back to the Windows client on Bootcamp since the Mac client was completely unplayable with the memory leak. I, too, saw the reference to OpenGL and thought it might mean the graphical glitches in caves and such were fixed. So I thought I would update the Mac Client and try visiting the Ancient Tomb/cave in Norcrofts. But I crashed the client THREE times trying to get from Snowbourn craft guild hall to the tomb - so I lost interest in finding out if that got fixed or not. What's the point if you can't keep the client up?
    "Someday I'm going to move to Michel Delving and leave all this behind." - Hobbit in Waymeet

    [IMG]http://www.48ovvi.org/misc/dawnwen.jpg[/IMG] WINDFOLA

  5. #5
    My impression was that, since release of U10, also wandering in high level areas (Snowbourne/Hyt/etc.) was not leading to client crashed but now, after U10, it has become quite fequent even in starter Rohan areas (East Wall for example), so I came here and discovered that the problem is not new...mph...guess there is not much to do except letting Turbine know through here ! I am still refusing to resort to bootcamp, because I spend majority of my time on my computer playing LOTRO (and doing other stuff in the meantime..) and having to spend this time in a Windows environment makes no sense...I had sticked to Microsoft, then....
    ---

    "I play LOTRO because it has Tolkien. I don't play games the same way people choose shoes, cars, cloths and their friends-based on looks and instant gratification."

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Southeastern USA
    Posts
    147
    I crash to desktop when I enter Bree for any reason, in any way - whether by riding, milestone, waking, logging in. On every character. I do not have this issue anywhere else in the game. I now move all characters out of Bree for crafting/auctioning and I do no more questing out of there.

    Other than this. I noticed the graphical improvements as well. Very nice.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2b2250000000dceda/01007/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Oxnard, CA
    Posts
    103
    For some reason I hadn't thought the memory leak problem was directly connected to the level of graphics. I figured it would have some effect on the graphical glitches, but I thought the client crashes must be something else entirely, since it wasn't happening to me in Windows bootcamp.

    As I said - since U9 I have been having client crashes every second loading screen and the game had become unplayable on the Mac client for me. I had had my graphics settings on VERY HIGH (had tried with and without Specular Lighting and such but no difference for me). So just for grins I put my settings down to LOW. Lo and behold I was able to go through loading screens galore and play for an hour with no crashes at all. I watched the memory usage in iStat and saw that LOTRO was using about 1.5G and had plateaued off at that level. Unlike when on VERY HIGH, the memory wasn't stair-stepping up steadily every time I went through an area boundary (until it was >3.5 GB when a crash was imminent). I guess I will try on MEDIUM for a while and see how that does, but for short periods of play during the day, I'm OK with rotten graphics I guess. I do enjoy the convenience of the Mac client over having to reboot into Windows on bootcamp and wait forever for my client to load. And on the low graphics levels the framerate in Rohan approaches something I can live with as well.

    If, in fact, the memory leaks are exacerbated by high graphics, you would think it would be easier for Turbine to find and fix the problems???
    "Someday I'm going to move to Michel Delving and leave all this behind." - Hobbit in Waymeet

    [IMG]http://www.48ovvi.org/misc/dawnwen.jpg[/IMG] WINDFOLA

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Lwio View Post
    Client crashing is by far the most important thing to fix. In Rohan my client crashes almost every ten minutes, when I travel via milestone, fast horse or just go in and out of buildings. I am doing Hytbold now so travelling quite a bit.
    Turbine need to fix this ASAP.
    This now again appears to be a problem with the Windows client as well.
    Interestingly there is now a thread(s) which are describing the issue as INTEL related!

    I routinely run the Mac Client for my first 60-90 minutes of play -- i.e. until it locks up the first time. Then switch to running the PC Client via CrossOver (WINE) ... historically for the next 4-6 hours. However, since U10, I don't seem to get much more than about 2 hours out of the PC client until it freezes. Normally, this is in Rohan, but I was having the same issue last evening in Great River (Thinglad and Limlight Gorge).

    And yes, every time I get something I can look at... 3.7 GB of memory used!
    So, to me at least, the issue is clearly still the memory leak problem, and I still pin it on Awesomium.

    Since U10 came out, I've spent A LOT of my in-game time, examining NPC displays of Recipes and results of crafting. And I can stand in the same place looking at NPC and Crafting windows and have the game crash on me.
    The other evening I was, quite literally, standing there chatting with the Jewellery Guild Leader for about 90 minutes and boom.
    Frozen solid... can't do anything but force the Mac or PC client to crash.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden

    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,725
    Quote Originally Posted by donworth View Post
    If, in fact, the memory leaks are exacerbated by high graphics, you would think it would be easier for Turbine to find and fix the problems???
    This is one of those "true," "Yes and No," issues.

    While true that lower settings delay the onset of the problem, they do not alleviate it.

    The basic problemn is the fact that the LOTRO client (both Mac and Windows) is a 32-bit client attempting to address more than 4GB of memory.

    Personally, I still put the blame on Awesomium. This is a third party product which Turbine introduced into LOTRO with RoR.
    Turbine really has no ability to modify the code for Awesomium, they can only ask the vendor to do so. (And I'll ignore the fact that Awesomium is based on Chromium which is Open Source code ...)

    I "routinely" spend time "chatting" with various NPC Vendors and the like grabbing stats for the various Items that keep getting changed. (I spend a lot of time with every update verifying and updating the Crafting information at LOTRO-Wiki.com.)
    I can "freeze-crash" both the Mac and PC clients simply by opening an closing windows constantly, and generating pages full of screenshots. ... I don't even have to move through a doorway!

    Other than that, LOTRO has always been one of the most graphics intensive games out there. Since it's release, it has always been very close to the maximum 4GB memory footprint. And it "suffers" from the fact that it was written to make "optimum," maybe even "maximum" use of Microsoft's DX graphics code. The "new" graphics environment introduced with Rohan incorporated OpenGL. How well do the two co-exist? I have no idea.

    My expertise with Computer Graphics is pretty much long ago and far away -- 16-bit level, not even 32 -- and I don't have a good feeling for the current "state of the art" other than to know that it is 64-bit, not 32-bit. I've been working with 64-bit systems ever since I started supporting OSF/1 on the Dec Alpha, long, long ago. (OSX is descended from NeXT which is descended from OSF/1, but that's a separate topic.) OSX has now been a 64-bit clean OS since Leopard as I recall. Support for 32-bit PPC code (Rosetta) was dropped from OSX back with the release of Lion. So the Mac Client was never supported in a 32-bit environment. Lion 7.5 and forward has ALWAYS been 64-bit.

    So, I don't see the Freeze Crash problem going away, especially on the Mac Client, until it is re-written to be 64-bit clean. The current memory footprint of an active client is too close to the 32-bit max.
    Bill Magill Mac Player Founder/Lifetimer
    Old Timers Guild - Gladden

    Val - Man Minstrel (90)
    Valalin - Dwarf Minsrel (69)
    Valamar - Dwarf Hunter (105)
    Valdicta - Dwarf RK (105)
    Valhad - Elf LM (65)
    Valkeeper - Elf RK (86)
    Valwood - Dwarf RK (80)

    Valhunt - Dwarf Hunter (70)
    Valanne - Beorning (92)
    Ninth - Man Warden (65)

    "Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
    All about the fun!"


 

 

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