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  1. #1
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    May 2007
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    U10 the 2nd age of Farming

    It hasn’t even reached 24 hours after the update and already this is the current state of things:

    Farm Farm Farm.

    Since First age Symbols and Gold Class items drop on tier 1. The majority of the player base has been going into Battle of Erebor t1. It has now reached the point that players looking for groups in GLFF, has referred them as “BoE t1 Farm” There is no incentive to do t2 or Smaug or Flight beyond the initial look of the instances as the same loot pool will drop from t1 Battle of Erebor. Yes, there is the new armour sets but that is really tertiary compared to the player wishlist of 1st agers and Gold Class items. And the path of least resistance is usually more appealling.

    Soo… in an attempt to stop the BG farming of Durchest, loot was removed. Namely 2nd age Symbols and Crystals. We now turn to the Battle of Erebor Farming of 1st agers, Golds and Recipe drops.

    Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring --> LOTRO: The Farmville of the Ring

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    France
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    754
    I had post something worthy... but the site logs me out.... *sigh*

    To sum up.

    My kinmates and I are happy, we finally loot something. Lots of content to do, very different from each others. What we don't want and what we fear, a nerf in drop rate like it's done every time one week after the release of an update (see U9...).

    Please, weight your drop rate hammer before hitting devs

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Land of Bunga Bunga
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    The people who farm after U10, most probably farmed after U9 too, and the removal of drops from public instances didn't change their occupation, but only the most rewarding path to their aim, and the ease of reaching it.

    This is a common gameplay pattern in F2P and Freemium MMORPGS, and even P2P ones have it as a component. My point is: how much this component weighs in the LotRo end-game gameplay? Too much, in my opinion. But the problem is not in the path, it's in the destination. What is there, in end-game, that make people enjoy the game, have fun and/or achieve a sense of accomplishment?

    I can't answer to this question myself on behalf of the community, but I wonder how many of the farmers are enjoying what they do, how many only want of the drops and are therefore doing something they don't like, and how many are doing it because they have nothing better to do.

    Bottom line, my opinion is that it doesn't matter if drops from BoE T1 were removed or corrected: if they were, balances would shift and people would just find the new optimal spot for farming: we need more variety of objectives, in end-game content.

  4. #4
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    4,405
    It seems to me that the farming could be taken care of pretty simply just by making sure that the loot matches the challenge.

    We have three levels of loot available at level cap: purple, teal, and gold.

    We have three levels of challenge available at level cap: T1, T2, T2C.

    Play a simple matching game, and we have:

    T1 drops purple loot.
    T2 drops teal loot. (And maybe purple.)
    T2C drops gold loot. (And teal, because gold is supposed to be rare.)

    Of course, School T2C is far easier than Fires of Smaug T2C, so adjust the rates accordingly: low chance of gold loot for School, high chance for Fires of Smaug.

    As for First Age Symbols: well, they're available in the skirmish camp now, and access is granted if you can beat one of the raids on T1 - that's a pretty low threshold, especially considering that one of the raids has already been 6-manned. Given that, there's no need to even have the Symbols drop on T1 at all. Give them a chance to drop on T2, and a guaranteed drop on T2C.

    Voila - reward is commensurate with challenge.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    13
    Rohan end game has been = T1 Durchest Farming for 2nd ages, Cliving afk farming for recipe, and now will be t1 Battle of Erebor farming for 1st ages.

    Turbine have done a terrible job with loot in Rohan and it all could have been avoided with a few simple changes. New raids should have been given a one day lock and gold items should not drop on t1. Problem solved.

    The funny thing is Battle for Erebor is really easy on t2(not so easy on challenge) and could be easily pug-able but no one will every try it to realise :P

  6. #6
    For us as a raiding kin, its very disappointing, to see how easy it is, to get 1st agers now. we are the only kin on our server that has done ToO fully in T2CM. And now, after 1 day, we see people, who couldn't even do lightning t2cm (which took us 5+ evenings for serverfistkill) have 1st agers, and noone of us has one, becuase we worked yesterday really really hard to do battle for erebor t2cm which we couldn't finish, because we have to learn about mechanics and so on. t1 is just faceroll.

    i wouldn't say anything, if there would be a really great loot for t2cm, but some warsteed things... sry... that's not what it should be! our kin leader already unsubscribed his vip account since an hour, because he is so disappointed. unfortunately i bought 1 year subscription, otherwise i would have unsubscribed too.

    well turbine.. make it a casual game.. but i don't think you can hold the hardcore fans, which are willing to pay about 200-300$ a year vor vip and turbine points..

    2c from a disappointet lotro gamer (till yesterday fanboy)

  7. #7
    Strange that people are farming Battle for Erebor, on Gladden it's all about farming Flight of the Lonely Mountain.

    And I'm sick of it. Ran Erebor, Fires of Smaug, Lonely mountain, now I can't get in a group for anything except for farming. So I gave up, no longer playing. I consider RoR a waste of money.

    I don't directly blame turbine (although, seriously... dropping 1st age symbols in a t1 raid? What do you expect to happen?), the player base is largely to blame. People seem more interested in their stats than playing content.
    Last edited by DJ_JD; Mar 07 2013 at 08:17 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Michigan
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    553
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalion View Post
    It hasn’t even reached 24 hours after the update and already this is the current state of things:

    Farm Farm Farm.

    Since First age Symbols and Gold Class items drop on tier 1. The majority of the player base has been going into Battle of Erebor t1. It has now reached the point that players looking for groups in GLFF, has referred them as “BoE t1 Farm” There is no incentive to do t2 or Smaug or Flight beyond the initial look of the instances as the same loot pool will drop from t1 Battle of Erebor. Yes, there is the new armour sets but that is really tertiary compared to the player wishlist of 1st agers and Gold Class items. And the path of least resistance is usually more appealling.

    Soo… in an attempt to stop the BG farming of Durchest, loot was removed. Namely 2nd age Symbols and Crystals. We now turn to the Battle of Erebor Farming of 1st agers, Golds and Recipe drops.

    Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring --> LOTRO: The Farmville of the Ring

    FYI, not everyone plays online games the way you do. Every player in every MMO has different play styles.

    After the events since december and all the posts on these forums about it. Its of my opinion that you are just a farmer that got his goodies and now you want turbine to nerf the loot drops even more so you can charge your outrageous prices in glff and on the AH. Because that is the ONLY thing that reducing or limiting loot does. It allows you select players to price gouge as much as you can.

    reducing the loot does not cause less lag, The only thing it does is it takes a dump on other players that do not raid 24 /7.. I happen to know quit a lot of people who play on my server that have jobs that work them 10 to 14 hours per day 5 or 6 days a week. add kids and other family / house duties to it and you get very little play time let alone raid availability.

    not only that, their is nothing wrong with farming. farming is not an exploit! Have you looked at your deed log, How about the instance deed log. How many times you gota run the instances or kill the mobs in the instances. The deeds speaks volumes. It tells me that we the players are supposed to farm and run instances over and over. Thats why Turbine also put the slayer deed enhancers in the turbine store.

    understand yet??

    I apologize if my response offends you or anyone else on these forums. But Its of my opinion that folks are upset they can no longer charge players like me 150g to 500g for 2nd age symbols. or 1k gold for the horse lords recopies.

    Im happy with the way this is set up, because since posts like your got turbine to remove the loot from Hybolt my game play as been altered. So im happy turbine set the new loot system like this with Update 10, because NOW the worm has turned on every price gouging player across all the servers.



    Enjoy the new loot system! I am :-)

    NOTE: Sorry if my post makes you mad. This is how i see things happening since December, its my opinion and i feel i am entitled to it.

    As torch would say

    "Flame ON!!!"
    Last edited by Gagmuk; Mar 07 2013 at 08:49 AM.

  9. #9
    @ DJ_JD
    flight to the lonely mountain = 10 mins
    battle for erebor = 4 mins...

  10. #10
    @Gagmuk

    reducing the loot does not cause less lag, The only thing it does is it takes a dump on other players that do not raid 24 /7.. I happen to know quit a lot of people who play on my server that have jobs that work them 10 to 14 hours per day 5 or 6 days a week. add kids and other family / house duties to it and you get very little play time let alone raid availability.
    We aren't asking for a reduction in loot, we want an incentive to do harder content. This is so that we can get groups to do the harder content. As it stands, we have paid money for content that we can't access because everyone just wants to farm something easy.

    This incentive may mean a nerf to loot, but it will still be accessible.

    I apologize if my response offends you or anyone else on these forums. But Its of my opinion that folks are upset they can no longer charge players like me 150g to 500g for 2nd age symbols. or 1k gold for the horse lords recopies.
    As far as I'm concerned, most players aren't upset about this. We're upset that the only way to get the recipes is pure luck.

    Im happy with the way this is set up, because since posts like your got turbine to remove the loot from Hybolt my game play as been altered. So im happy turbine set the new loot system like this with Update 10, because NOW the worm has turned on every price gouging player across all the servers.
    I'm sorry to say, but I consider this very selfish. How about all those people who's game style was forced to change BECAUSE of Hytbold? I can assure you, raiders were not appreciative on no end game content for so long. And the new loot system I find to be very unfair for raiders. (And lets be honest, this update was largely about raiding.)

    *EDIT*
    I'm just saying what is happening on my server. But that statement you made shows how ridiculously easy these raids are, it hasn't even been 24 hours yet.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donikkl View Post
    For us as a raiding kin, its very disappointing, to see how easy it is, to get 1st agers now. we are the only kin on our server that has done ToO fully in T2CM. And now, after 1 day, we see people, who couldn't even do lightning t2cm (which took us 5+ evenings for serverfistkill) have 1st agers, and noone of us has one, becuase we worked yesterday really really hard to do battle for erebor t2cm which we couldn't finish, because we have to learn about mechanics and so on. t1 is just faceroll.

    i wouldn't say anything, if there would be a really great loot for t2cm, but some warsteed things... sry... that's not what it should be! our kin leader already unsubscribed his vip account since an hour, because he is so disappointed. unfortunately i bought 1 year subscription, otherwise i would have unsubscribed too.

    well turbine.. make it a casual game.. but i don't think you can hold the hardcore fans, which are willing to pay about 200-300$ a year vor vip and turbine points..

    2c from a disappointet lotro gamer (till yesterday fanboy)
    I don't understand why you as a raiding kin care about what items others get, and how they get it. I'm sorry but the only point i see why, is because you can't epeen with your shiny First Age weapons because everyone gets it.
    There are T2 only Sets, that give you are good reason to do t2 and don't farm t1. But the much bigger point you call yourself a raiding kin that likes progression like you serverfirstkill at lvl 85 for ToO. Why you don't like the progression for the Erebor Raids. I'm raiding since the first raid in this game and raids are the only reason why i play this game, but i don't care about what items other players get i care about my progression. I love to research bosses and finally after many praxis kill them, maybe kill them as first guild ever. Thats what i love: the challenge.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
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    553
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ_JD View Post
    @Gagmuk

    We aren't asking for a reduction in loot, we want an incentive to do harder content. This is so that we can get groups to do the harder content. As it stands, we have paid money for content that we can't access because everyone just wants to farm something easy.

    This incentive may mean a nerf to loot, but it will still be accessible.

    As far as I'm concerned, most players aren't upset about this. We're upset that the only way to get the recipes is pure luck.

    I'm sorry to say, but I consider this very selfish. How about all those people who's game style was forced to change BECAUSE of Hytbold? I can assure you, raiders were not appreciative on no end game content for so long. And the new loot system I find to be very unfair for raiders. (And lets be honest, this update was largely about raiding.)

    *EDIT*
    I'm just saying what is happening on my server. But that statement you made shows how ridiculously easy these raids are, it hasn't even been 24 hours yet.
    i dont know what happens on other servers as i play only on meneldor. So i can only go by what is posted on the forums and since im not there to witness it myself i consider it hearsay evidence per-say.


    and i think your wrong About people not wanting to do harder content.

    My guild i am in has not raided since myrkwood release due to various reasons beyond our control. so I have not stepped foot into a raid since, until yesterday. I never even tried anything on tier 2, only tier 1. I had fun with, and i got no special loots. I plan on doing more of the content if possible. Heck I even may try a couple pugs if they need it and or i feel up to it.

    So again, to me complaining about loot bein easy to get and wanting to make it harder just seems like a way to get turbine to do the Economy control so players can charge higher prices.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    708
    News Flash: Players always have and always will Farm content.

    I could care less how many times people run any given content. The way loot is set to drop it doesn't matter if you do the fastest or the hardest mode...............it all comes down to how lucky you are.

  14. #14
    @burio: why do you think we did ToO so late? because we also wanted to discover the bosses on our own.
    yesterday we spent many hours in battle for erebor t2cm, and it was just disgusting and disappointing to see people posting theyr first agers for zero expenditure in the serverwide chat.

    maybe i should leave lotro for a while and play ingress instead. it would be good for my body too

  15. #15
    IMO, kins don't do T2(C) because they can't get critical mass of those who want the challenge. It isn't necessarily because the loot is easier to get on T1, but there are players who disappear once they have their loot and those who get discouraged after dying a few times.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    37
    @Gamuk

    I’m sorry to disappoint, I’m actually not a farmer. All of my items I have attained and worked hard for in the runs that I do. Playing the AH? Unfortunately I am a kin crafter and officer, I make no gold as all the resources that I receive goes back into to the kin that I am in, I have barely enough gold to meld relics let alone waste time playing the AH. Yes, everyone has a different playing style, but I don’t understand how you could know my own playstyle when you have no information about my playstyle at all.

    And no, I don’t have the Goodies, I only have one gold item, I was lucky enough to get my Cappy Shield in a >>>Tier 2 BG<<< and that was well earned. Symbols? Crystals? I have gotten enough to outkit my cappy with 2nd agers(Weapon, Emblem, Buffstick), but the rest has gone back to kin to kin members that needed 2nd agers the most. So no I have not charged anyone for 2nd age Symbols cause I don’t have any symbols to charge or place a price onto.

    I’m merely showing my disappointment at the new raiding content, because I am leading t2 runs in co-operation with another kin that operates in my time line(Australian) and tho we have nearly downed t2 Fires of Smaug tonight, it gets kinda disheartening that we’re out there trying to do the hard content, whereas others have just gotten the same loot with easier and less time consuming runs.

    I understand that there are people out there that prefer the path of least resistance, but for my own personal playstyle, and those that raid with me, like to earn what we get, that the items that we have has a story to tell, and that an item that is truly remarkable was gained in some epic fight. Not gained by some 10 minute grind before going back to jumping the Snowbourne fences. So, no, I’m not “mad” I wish you’d actually get the full information of someone else’s “playstyle” before making text about something that is not true.

    Also, my kin is NOT a high end hardcore raiding kin. Its a mature casual raiding kin, but we felt that we would like to progress further and push ourselves to more challenging content than just t1 farms.
    Last edited by Dhalion; Mar 07 2013 at 12:55 PM.

  17. #17
    I am glad they are making progression no longer gated by t2 or t2cm. I am not in a high end raiding kin and don't plan on it. I am glad that I have at least the chance to work at getting a symbol and farming is work anyway you look at it.

  18. #18
    Bottom line: It is easier to get a first age today than it was to get a second age two days ago. In what MMO world does this make sense? Turbine, how can you nerf Durchest looting a few weeks ago and implement U10 like this on day 1?

    Do you guys even know why you nerfed Durchest runs in the first place?

    That aside, I commend you for what appears to be lair raids that will be quite challenging on t2c. We'll just have to see how many kins care to waste their time learning it since you made it so easy to get everything nice in the raid on t1.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    221
    Not sure what you're complaining for. These new skirmishes are awesome!!!!!!

    I wonder when the instance cluster is going to finally come out though...

  20. #20
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    Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wartober View Post
    Not sure what you're complaining for. These new skirmishes are awesome!!!!!!

    I wonder when the instance cluster is going to finally come out though...
    Skirmishes...?

    Mate... This IS the new instance cluster...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dhalion View Post
    Skirmishes...?

    Mate... This IS the new instance cluster...
    That was a joke/sarcasm...

    Made me laugh, heh.
    Chromite (Hunter) - Grumbletocks (Guardian) on Landroval, Appendage (Hunter) on Brandywine

  22. #22
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    The farming of Durch T1 was according to the devs working as intended when it came out - until they decided it was farming. The lair raids now are not challenging on T1 and since first age symbols drop without having to do full clears of the raid of course they're farmed. Five to ten minutes without locks? But let's face it, when they took the Durch farms away it didn't encourage us to do harder content. I've been clearing BG T2C a couple times a weekend but the loot sucks. Last weekend we voted to drink instead of go back for more fail chests from BG.

    Because we want loot, we farm. Because Turbine puts the loot at ridiculously low levels, we farm those. Effort vs. reward. And I've seen the T2 Erebor set for minstrels.... I am underwhelmed. If that is the only reason to do T2 then for some classes it's not an incentive. Cosmetically it isn't even different than the T1 set and it's black and dull looking.

    So we either a) have easy-mode farms to run for good loot (yes, I have a 1st age and a couple teals picked up in 5 runs); b) we have challenging content to run with rewards that more casual players can't get but still want; or c) they stop the farms and we are all bored to tears and quit logging on. To those of you who say we should raid hard content just for the challenge, that works only once. And without a carrot to get me to do something harder, again it goes back to effort vs. reward.

    Minnie looking for farm raid, pst...
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    It's just baffling isn't it. I mean, it is genuinely inexplicable by all historical standards. There are two possibilities.

    1. The Developers really don't know what they are doing (and let's be honest, it's really one very prominently posting Developer at this point that is responsible for all of this). I actually hope this is the case, because at least I could rely on the fact that eventually they should be able to wake up or that someone would be fired, and the game I love could again have even just a thread of cohesive design.

    2. The Developers know exactly what they are doing and they are consciously chasing out T2C raiders by not designing a game in a way that encourages them to stick with it. They are adopting the Candyland model, presumably because they believe it will be more profitable to do so. This possibility is incredibly sad, because, as a raider, there is really no point to stick with the game- raiding kins will atrophy.


    The incredibly frustrating thing is that the Developers are hiding behind their machines with no explanation for these really bizarre decisions. Seriously, how is a design change like this not deserving of a Developer Diary? They do Developer Diaries on far more trivial changes to the game than fundamental loot distribution. That could be because...

    1. They want to string along the T2C raiding crowd as long as possible to maximize profits- a reasonable objective.

    2. Some of them believe that the design decisions are incredibly stupid, but RockX has photos of them in uncompromising positions so they are reluctant to say anything.

    3. None of them realize that their design decisions have no coherence because they are the unwitting victims of a plot by Trion, which has resulted in their water-coolers being contaminated with a chemical that makes them all not a little loopy. Trion, of course, is motivated to lure the last vestiges of the LoTRO raiding community to RIFT. Sneaky &&&&&&&&.


    Where are the articles in the MMO press about these changes? A game maker deliberately distancing itself from its raiding player base has got to be a big story, right?
    Hey bro let's go play Rift.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042070000000cbc65/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  24. #24
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    Oct 2010
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    Frankly, I'm happy with the changes. I, like many others, have a busy work schedule and limited hours for raiding. My kin isn't nearly as active as it used to be, and there are only two or three other real raiding kins on my server. Those kins never run pugs, and even if you're friendly with them, you can only run with them if one of their kinnies isn't available. And I get that. At the same time, they aren't really open to having "casual raiders" in their kins, because regardless of skill, you don't have the highest-level gear to make running challenge mode feasible - which, of course, you usually couldn't get through pugs. Kind of a catch-22.

    Allowing first ages and gold items to drop on t1 greatly reduces the exclusionary nature of the previous raid setups. I love running group content - but, on my server at least, it was previously very frustrating to spend my limited time only on skraids and non-challenge content because people didn't have the "right" equipment. Now the only exclusions are actual skill and time.

    I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, all the complaints that "I had to work so hard and now it's easy for everyone." It's not like you worked for months to get an 85 first-ager, or to slowly rack up equipment to make challenge mode easier, only to see it become suddenly available everywhere. The same loot rules are in place across the board from day 1 of the new content. Turbine hasn't taken anything AWAY from you... if anything, it's given you MORE players to attempt challenge modes with, because now they don't HAVE to put months into progression just to have a shot at it.

    ... which leads me to this: I guess my question for people complaining about the lack of appropriate reward for challenge content is - why are you actually playing the challenge. Is it to prove your skill, is it bragging rights, OR (as I suspect is true for most) is it so that you can have better gear than the Joneses and walk around brandishing said big stick? For #1, nothing has changed. For #2, would you be satisfied by a special title or a low % drop cosmetic / housing item? If not, evidence says you're actually, probably, #3.

    Which is fine. But let's at least be honest that it's about epeen and not something else.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andorric View Post
    Frankly, I'm happy with the changes. I, like many others, have a busy work schedule and limited hours for raiding. My kin isn't nearly as active as it used to be, and there are only two or three other real raiding kins on my server. Those kins never run pugs, and even if you're friendly with them, you can only run with them if one of their kinnies isn't available. And I get that. At the same time, they aren't really open to having "casual raiders" in their kins, because regardless of skill, you don't have the highest-level gear to make running challenge mode feasible - which, of course, you usually couldn't get through pugs. Kind of a catch-22.
    What highest level gear can't you get through pugs. All best in slot items have been acquirable without stepping foot in a raid since Rohan came out.

    Even when Isengard was out, you could get the Orthanc armour and cloak clasps pugging T1 Orthanc, the Draigoch cloak pugging Draigoch, jewellery either solo (Limlight Gorge) or through skirmishes/3 and 6 mans. If you did that, the only item slots you would not have best in slot in would be weapon slot (first ager), and possibly earring drops from Saruman (which are so rare that the raiders running Saruman every week likely didn't have them). No kin is going to turn you down because you lack a first age (assuming you don't want to pug Lightning Challenge) and two extremely rare earrings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andorric View Post
    I'm not sure what all the fuss is about, all the complaints that "I had to work so hard and now it's easy for everyone." It's not like you worked for months to get an 85 first-ager, or to slowly rack up equipment to make challenge mode easier, only to see it become suddenly available everywhere. The same loot rules are in place across the board from day 1 of the new content. Turbine hasn't taken anything AWAY from you... if anything, it's given you MORE players to attempt challenge modes with, because now they don't HAVE to put months into progression just to have a shot at it.

    ... which leads me to this: I guess my question for people complaining about the lack of appropriate reward for challenge content is - why are you actually playing the challenge. Is it to prove your skill, is it bragging rights, OR (as I suspect is true for most) is it so that you can have better gear than the Joneses and walk around brandishing said big stick? For #1, nothing has changed. For #2, would you be satisfied by a special title or a low % drop cosmetic / housing item? If not, evidence says you're actually, probably, #3.

    Which is fine. But let's at least be honest that it's about epeen and not something else.
    If kinships play for bragging rights and there is no reward, you end up with each kinship running T2c every few months to complete the deed for alts after the initial kill. In case nobody remembers, Turbine already tried the whole no reward for completing a challenge bossfight, Blind One hardmode. Two kins completed it on level because they were the only ones who cared enough to keep trying after it was discovered that there was no reward for completing it.

 

 
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