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  1. #1
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    Rallying Cry with 0 Second Cooldown

    This has been brought up before somewhere deep in one of the armor bonus threads, but I figured it's worth repeating for quality of gameplay purposes.

    On the latest "close-to-final" Bullroarer build, it's (still) possible to get a 0, yes zero second cooldown Rallying Cry with the new changes to set bonuses.

    In the screenshot below, I've equipped 2x pieces of the 65 Helegrod armor and 4x pieces of the 85 PvMP Perseverence set. From my understanding it works with any sets with the defeat event cooldown. The bonuses stack. I have the emblem legacy also.


    Rallying Cry with no cooldown:


    Now, this could still change before U10 hits live, but if it doesn't..prepare for the Rallying Cry spam?
    Last edited by Beastnas; Feb 28 2013 at 04:50 PM.
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  2. #2
    Not only for Rallying Cry, but for Shadows Lamend and Routing-Cry, too (great for Tanking). I don't think, it's so dramatic for Rallying Cry, because you still have to kill something first. But sooner or later, this will surely be fixed by not letting it stack.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastnas View Post
    Now, this could still change before U10 hits live, but if it doesn't..prepare for the Rallying Cry spam?
    I mentioned it in the other thread. Not sure it is all that broken (maybe in 24 mans it is more so), as a 6 second cooldown is really short enough and the HOTs don't stack. It is pretty rare I get enough defeat events to need more than 1 RC per 6 seconds anyway.

    I think it is more intriguing for the shortened Shadow's Lament myself. 2 Perseverence, 2 Helegrod (which has stats that are awful @ 85), 2 Dagor, and maxed Shadow's Lament cooldown legacy gives pretty good spamming of SL and crit chain...
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Feb 28 2013 at 04:59 PM.

  4. #4
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    Good point. Shadow's Lament, War-cry, and Routing Cry go to 27 seconds with these bonuses, and Shadow's Lament goes even lower with the legacy.

    Yea, the stats will be terrible. But I feel there are enough encounters (and Moors) with so many defeat responses, and combined with crits, that will make this setup OP.
    Beastwise - Captain, R15 | Shock and Awe | Gladden

  5. #5
    Thought they fixed this oversight along with the no CD in combat rezzes.

  6. #6
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    Nah they just nerfed the rezzes.

    Could go even further down the rabbit hole and have 2-Helegrod, 2-Helegrod, 2-Pers to make your SL even lower in CD. I don't much like it though :\. Attack duration too slow, rotation to cramped as it is.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Could go even further down the rabbit hole and have 2-Helegrod, 2-Helegrod, 2-Pers to make your SL even lower in CD. I don't much like it though :\. Attack duration too slow, rotation to cramped as it is.
    If you are really just hunting for rally cries though (as a main healer, or as a healer/power battery in the moors) you could switch to sword and board to speed up your base attack speed, and you probably could complete all the attack chains as fast as they become available.
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  8. #8
    You can force a defeat response every 6s even when nothing dies.

    2 Moors armor +

    ---4 OD; valiant strike grants defeat response. Hit valiant strike

    --- Replace OD with 4 Hytbold (-7s valiant strike CD per each rally cry target)

    ---Use Rallying cry. Valiant strike is off cooldown. Repeat every 6 seconds if necessary.

    Whether that is ideal or not is up to you.

  9. #9
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    Indeed, with 2 pieces of Pers and 2 pieces from both Helegrod sets you can get Shadows Lament down to 5.3 seconds. I'm still not convinced it's that useful, though it may be rather nice for soloing? You may be able to achieve pretty much same result with 2 hele, 2 pers and 2 dagor though if you put BoE in the rotation (and who wouldnt?).

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    You can force a defeat response every 6s even when nothing dies.

    2 Moors armor +

    ---4 OD; valiant strike grants defeat response. Hit valiant strike

    --- Replace OD with 4 Hytbold (-7s valiant strike CD per each rally cry target)

    ---Use Rallying cry. Valiant strike is off cooldown. Repeat every 6 seconds if necessary.

    Whether that is ideal or not is up to you.
    Put on 2 Menestaid along with the 4 OD pieces for +20% healing on Valiant Strike and ofc remember to swap those two pieces for 2 Pers before using RC.
    Also, for VS to come off cooldown that fast you'll need to have at least 2 pets or play in skirmishes with skirm soldiers, 6*7sec or 7*7sec will only remove 42-49 sec of the 60 sec cooldown. Heh, I think I found a use for our heralds xD
    Last edited by Elrantiri; Mar 01 2013 at 04:49 AM.

  10. #10
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    with what you have to scrifice, i say its fair.

    this will make you squishier than a light armor class.

    this will knock a good portion off your total heal.

    i imagine that weak RC every ~3s may wokr out to higher numbers than a single RC every 6s. so, that *might* fill that gap.

    thanks for sharing. this is interesting and fun to theorize about, but i dont think ill put this into the works.


    well... my drinking bird hasnt gotten much use latley. /follow with a drinking bird on my "A" key (RC is A, with my pinky always on the trigger)
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  11. #11
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    If there's ever a place for 0s RC, I'd say it's Flight to the Lonely Mountain. T1 at least, though it's a snoozefest. Now, in T2? Well I'll get back to you on that after Friday night Infamy raid night.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    If there's ever a place for 0s RC, I'd say it's Flight to the Lonely Mountain. T1 at least, though it's a snoozefest. Now, in T2? Well I'll get back to you on that after Friday night Infamy raid night.
    And all skirmish raids. HPS is insane.

    Haven't tried Flight, and now it's been removed, hope it coes back soon, because i think 0s RC will be epic there (atleast in t1)
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  13. #13
    What combination of armor set pieces (Helegrod, Perseverence and Hytbold) would you recommend for a tryout?

    Thanks in advance!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elrantiri View Post
    Indeed, with 2 pieces of Pers and 2 pieces from both Helegrod sets you can get Shadows Lament down to 5.3 seconds.
    How does -40% of a 45 second cooldown translate to -40 seconds?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessEternal View Post
    How does -40% of a 45 second cooldown translate to -40 seconds?
    He said both Helegrod sets. So -20%, -20%, -15%. Count in the legacy and it's 0.45*45s -15s = 5.3s.
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  16. #16
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    Would this even be a consideration compared to the enormous loss of other stats?

  17. #17
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    Depends on the situation. Look and see what losing ~300 Might does, and determine if it's worth the extra RCs you'll likely see. Personally, I think it's pretty funny (and fun) to use in Bells. There are plenty of times where I rattle off 3-5 RCs in a row. In fact, I have a habit of hitting keys twice like an impatient person in a slow elevator, so they go off without me having to think about it. Very amusing to see 75k in heals go out in less than 5 seconds. Though it's obviously overkill. When Flight comes back up, it will definitely be worth trying out on T2, IMO.
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  18. #18
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    I think it might actually be a viable way to go. I dropped ~10% outgoing healing recently as I've started to run a less heal-focused build. (I'm using 4 Command and 2 Perseverance, and six Moors pieces of gear drops your mastery by a lot, especially when four of the pieces are DPS based.) Even with the loss in that much outgoing healing, my actual heals haven't taken much of a hit at all. I have a feeling that this is because so much of our actual healing is crit, rather than mastery, based. (This is without actual testing to see how much actual healing is lost though.) It also seems that since we get most of our crit from out jewelry and LIs, and not our armour, that using lower level armour wouldn't affect crit too much.

    Enabling even more RC spam, even if those RCs were healing for a bit less, would probably be a great way to heal most content.
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  19. #19
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    It's pretty funny to use in the GB cluster or Fornost fire, pulling the entire instance and keeping everyone at full health and full power on my own. I can spam so many rally cries it lags my computer.
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  20. #20
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    TD, what are you losing from the other stats, though? Morale and mitigations, in particular. Even in 85 non-tank gear, where I'm sitting at like 50% phys/45% tact mits and 9k morale, I take non-trivial splash/environmental damage in certain fights.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    TD, what are you losing from the other stats, though? Morale and mitigations, in particular. Even in 85 non-tank gear, where I'm sitting at like 50% phys/45% tact mits and 9k morale, I take non-trivial splash/environmental damage in certain fights.
    It's a good thought, but I don't think it would be too much of an issue. Of course, as you may recall from earlier posts around the U9 timeframe, I'm not huge on morale (and to a lesser extent mits) for healing situations. Using two Helegrod and two Perseverance would definitely lower your masteries, but I think the loss in morale and mits from using Helegrod would be balanced out by the larger chunks of vit that the Perseverance set has. You may end up a little lower, but not low enough to cause any worry, at least in my opinion.

    If I could manage to clear out my inventory a bit I might actually go pick up a couple of Helegrod just to test all of this, but as it is I have like a bag and a half full of gear already.
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  22. #22
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    Alright, so some numbers!
    4/2: This is my main healing set, Four Hytbold and Two Perseverance, using the Pers Boots and Pants.
    2/2/2: 0 sec RC set swaps the Hele gloves and the Hele shoulders in for the Hytbold gloves/shoulders
    (gloves have the +4% tac crit multi, but I'm not sure if that affects heals)
    Buffs up are scrolls, hope token, Relentless Attack, and Motivate. Red-line traited, which you'll be able to tell from the crit %.

    So here's how the numbers changed.

    4/2 2/2/2
    Morale 9704 9573
    Crit (%) 27.7 27.5
    Outgoing Healing (%) 46.5 42.6
    Tactical Mit (%) 40.1 39.4



    As you can see, morale, crit, and tac mit hardly move. Outgoing healing takes a little bit of a hit, but it's not noticeable if you're getting enough defeat responses to use more than one RC every 6 seconds.
    Last edited by TinDragon; Mar 20 2013 at 08:53 PM.
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  23. #23
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    awesome! thanks for the numbers, gonna get those 2 old hele pieces outta my vault! now, here is what i would like to see

    HPS on an instance run with 2pers/4hyt VS. 2/2/2

    Also, and this may play hugely into how beneficial this 0 sec RC build is, but isnt there a class (mini i think?) that has a skill that gives us defeat responses? and if so, what is the CD of THAT skill?

    then, the question is, is THAT skill is spammable, could the mini sit there and spam that thus allowing the cappy to sit and spam RC? If so, could make some T2 raid runs of the new raids a bit easier
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  24. #24
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    Call to Greatness has a 5 minute cooldown and lasts 15 seconds.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoman73 View Post

    Also, and this may play hugely into how beneficial this 0 sec RC build is, but isnt there a class (mini i think?) that has a skill that gives us defeat responses? and if so, what is the CD of THAT skill?

    then, the question is, is THAT skill is spammable, could the mini sit there and spam that thus allowing the cappy to sit and spam RC? If so, could make some T2 raid runs of the new raids a bit easier
    Mini Song of Aid does it, 5 minute cooldown (not sure if that can be shortened by legacies, I don't play mini). Mini call to greatness also does it, 5 minute cooldown and gives you a defeat response every 5 seconds for 15 seconds.

    Not sure how useful a mechanic that is. Most RC spam situations come from lots of adds. That gives you RC from enemy defeats as well as the basically guaranteed PA crits...

 

 
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