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  1. #1

    Why are Hunters so Lameo at soloing multiple mobs????

    OK, Let's start out by saying that I've been playing this game for over five years,
    started in beta and am a life account in Lotro.

    I've leveled three to 85 so far -- a Warden, a Minstrel, and a Burglar.

    I'm currently working on leveling a 63 Hunter.

    Lordy, what a drag that is . . .

    The hunter huffs and puffs -- (Oh First, make sure you have Strength Stance,

    Now, eat some food,

    Now, use some more consumables,

    oh remember, fire/light oils,

    oh remember, bow chants,

    oh right, get extra This and That,

    La de Da)

    NOW > > > > Lay a Trap

    Huff & Puff some more --

    THEN!! TA DA!! Shoot -- Pew--Pew--Pew

    AND THEN . . . ALL OF A SUDDEN . . .

    There are 2,

    no . . . 3,

    no . . . . 4 mobs

    ALL OVER YOU,

    Now KITE, KITE, KITE, Run you weasel Run Run Run.

    Oh NOOOOOO, you stumble, you can't move anymore, Oh Noose!

    And you Fight and Struggle, and then

    YOU DIE.

    Lordy.


    MY WARDEN

    would have wiped all those pissant mobs off her behind

    in 13.9 seconds and been on her way, Without breaking a sweat.


    Hunters suck so lame at soloing multiple mobs that is almost laughable

    However, it is soooo sad.


    Nerf puppies, that is what Hunters are:

    NERF PUPPIES.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Funny it's a German vid...
    I know of an address in Germany:
    Hunt-LOSER strasse in Wardenburg
    (^^ all three medium armours there XD )
    Google-map it if you don't believe me...
    Postalcode 26203

    About that hunter:
    EPIC! Wish I could use my hunter that well.
    I guess I'll stick to wardening those trolls :P

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatimli View Post
    Impressive, great CC usage, but i would like to see how he/she fights branded creep.
    Gilrain: Keeslanaff - r12 RVR
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  5. #5
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    By that level you should have a ridiculous amount of CC. Bard's Arrow, Rain of Thorns, Low Cut Strength Quick Shot and Barbed Arrow slows, Distracting Shot, Dazing Blow, and traps (both skills and crafted ones). Make sure you're utilizing all of them to stay alive.

    Also, consider using Precision stance. Most hunters pull off better damage using Precision due to the focus generation.
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  6. #6
    Generally classes that have low mitigations, low health, require a gimmick to AOE properly, have to be rooted a lot for their damage, and have fair to poor CC skills and no panic buttons without the ability to effectively kite, suck at multiple mobs.

    You could go the CC route with Yellow, or try the mobility route with Blue. Generally if your DPS is high enough you can use Thorns to pin everything down and then burn them one at a time, if they don't resist the Root.

    If not, Lay Trap + Like-Level Triple Traps will help.
    My other Warhorse is a Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit,[I] Defiant-Class[/I], [I]U.S.S. Say My Name[/I], NCC-93144

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    By that level you should have a ridiculous amount of CC. Bard's Arrow, Rain of Thorns, Low Cut Strength Quick Shot and Barbed Arrow slows, Distracting Shot, Dazing Blow, and traps (both skills and crafted ones). Make sure you're utilizing all of them to stay alive.

    Also, consider using Precision stance. Most hunters pull off better damage using Precision due to the focus generation.
    I was going to suggest Precision stance, but there it is already, so I'll just support that option.

    Aside from that, I'm hoping that you have a level 60 First Age bow on you. (I wouldn't assume that for new players, but you have 3 85s, so the tokens should come quickly to you)

    In multiple mob pulls, stick a slow on the first mob you're going to burn down, this will make it so that the 2nd mob is the one stuck in your trap. The first mob should die about the time he reaches you. The second mob should be trapped. The third mob you should be able to kill before the 2nd gets free. Since you have time, run a little distance away from the 2nd mob (if it's still trapped) then you'll be able to kill him in about the same timeframe as the first mob you killed (that is, before it gets to you).

    With more mobs, Low Cut or Dazing Blow and run, turn around and kill em.

    I will admit that my hunter is only 47, so enemy morale may have inflated more than your dps at this point of your character's life. Random pieces of advice below.





    Don't Panic (In large friendly letters)

    Hunters aren't very survivable when getting hit and don't do much AoE dps. Try to avoid situations where those are required.

    If you really have pulled too many, it's ok to run away.

    If you're using CC that has a chance to break on damage, try using Light Oil instead of Fire Oil. Fire Oil's DoT can trouble you.

    If you're in melee range of your enemies, keep up the Swift Stroke parry buff.

    Consider traiting Rain of Thorns or Bard's Arrow.

    If you trait Trapper of Foes (yellow) or The Hunstman (blue) you get access to Explosive Arrow or Improved Fleetness, which increase your CC or mobility, increasing your survivability.

    Switch between Dazes, roots, and Fears. That is, don't hit something with Dazing Blow followed by Distracting Shot right when it breaks free. After a specific type of effect expires, mobs are immune to that effect for 1-10 seconds depending on the effect.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatimli View Post
    Just because people can climb Mt. Everest it does not mean that Mt. Everest isn't tall, or dangerous, or extremely difficult to climb.

    You know what I saw in that video? A hunter who hovered on the verge of death who was LUCKY to not get crit/dev. A single crit/dev and it means there would be no such video. He traited/spec'd himself for that situation, choosing enemies that don't ignore traps, aren't immuned to fear and aren't immuned to daze. Notice how even with ALL kinds of buffs before the combat started a single hit and he was down 25% of his morale before he even got his first shot off. Then for the next 15 minutes he spent who knows how much consumables in the form of traps and pots. His health was on the verge of getting killed by one more hit multiple times. Again he was lucky that the mobs didn't crit or dev him. I saw someone very skilled at using traps but also very lucky to not get finished off. But you know whats the biggest thing stacked in his favor? Unlike many mobs those trolls don't have any ranged attack. Can you imagine if this is even remotely possible when mobs are shooting back? He'd be dead in seconds and all his traps wouldn't mean a thing. Its an impressive demonstration on how to cc mobs that don't range back and aren't immune to any of his cc. It says absolutely nothing about how vulnerable hunters are.
    The only thing worse than a company making bad decisions, is the apologists who cheer it on.

  9. #9
    It wasn't always so. Hunter before ROI could do 4 mobs without even using cc and lived. I never slotted press onward because pots were enough healing to do the job. Issue is mitigation was changed. Hunter/burg are the only classes as of u10 that will not have their main stat contributing to Mitigations as well. You will be lucky to have 5k-6k tactical without sacrificing DPS in the process. Might classes don't since might raises physical you can afford to use your virtues to balance out tact. If you get to 12 or so in the phys and tact mitigation virtues you will regain some ability to do multimobs, but it never comes near to what a warden in dps gear can do. We also need reliable non-induction self heals of some kind. We are a ranged dps class yet agile rejoiner is melee range only and triggers off parry our worst avoidance. Heal pots haven't scaled well either at 65 it would give 30-40% of morale. At 85 it barely 20%. I hold little hope of the devs seeing the issue and doing anything to balance the total lack of defense that agi classes have compared to might / will.
    Welleg , Kelleg, and Gelleg - Crickhollow
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  10. #10
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    OP must be joking... hunters are anything but squishy, easy-to-be-killed class.

    With my hunter on-level I have tanked Gurbák (2nd boss in Foundry) since our tank was kicked on a wall. Again in Foundry I always started the first pull (3 adds) and killed em before the captain is ready with the buffs of the group. And those are 6-man instance mobs, not some pity landscapes... etc, etc.

    What I mean is, I never ever have felt my hunter to be weak in any way. Yes, he is NOT a real tank, not enough mitigations, crit deffense, etc... but he still got some excelent avoidances and tons of CC, even if not traited yellow. I love hunters so much I lately rolled second one, and using only some buffs provided by the box you get when you start I was able to do Small FS landscape quests that my burg and mini before that failed to complete.

    Of course hunter got nowhere near the survivability of a warden,... and he shouldn't.
    I hunt. I kill.

    Warden by destiny, Hunter in the heart.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gelleg View Post
    It wasn't always so. Hunter before ROI could do 4 mobs without even using cc and lived. I never slotted press onward because pots were enough healing to do the job. Issue is mitigation was changed. Hunter/burg are the only classes as of u10 that will not have their main stat contributing to Mitigations as well. You will be lucky to have 5k-6k tactical without sacrificing DPS in the process. Might classes don't since might raises physical you can afford to use your virtues to balance out tact. If you get to 12 or so in the phys and tact mitigation virtues you will regain some ability to do multimobs, but it never comes near to what a warden in dps gear can do. We also need reliable non-induction self heals of some kind. We are a ranged dps class yet agile rejoiner is melee range only and triggers off parry our worst avoidance. Heal pots haven't scaled well either at 65 it would give 30-40% of morale. At 85 it barely 20%. I hold little hope of the devs seeing the issue and doing anything to balance the total lack of defense that agi classes have compared to might / will.
    I can appreciate the comparison to Will classes if their Will stat contributes to their mitigations however it could be argued that we SHOULD have a lower or no contribution to mitigations from our primary stat due to the different role we have. Were not in anyway supposed to be a ranged tank and our primary role DPS does not require higher mitigations in groups. I dont feel that we should be ranged tanks and easily be able to cap our mits from stacking AGI alone.

    I'm uninformed about whether the Will classes do in fact have some contribution from that to their mits. I'm assuming you're correct. And if they do I would argue that if they do it would not mean necessarily that we should. I would argue that preferably we both don't or have a scaling based upon our armour class. Might = heavy = high contribution from man stat to mits. Agi = medium = moderate to low or none from main stat to mits, Will =low = low to none from main stat to mits. With me being happy if we remain 0 as long as the Will classes aren't benefitting disproportionately from their stat. Just kinda seems to make sense from respective roles and cap levels to mits to me.
    Elendilmir - 95 Hunter Berenthalion - 80ish Burg Berendybuck - baby warden Berenion.

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarian_Grace View Post
    I can appreciate the comparison to Will classes if their Will stat contributes to their mitigations however it could be argued that we SHOULD have a lower or no contribution to mitigations from our primary stat due to the different role we have. Were not in anyway supposed to be a ranged tank and our primary role DPS does not require higher mitigations in groups. I dont feel that we should be ranged tanks and easily be able to cap our mits from stacking AGI alone.

    I'm uninformed about whether the Will classes do in fact have some contribution from that to their mits. I'm assuming you're correct. And if they do I would argue that if they do it would not mean necessarily that we should. I would argue that preferably we both don't or have a scaling based upon our armour class. Might = heavy = high contribution from man stat to mits. Agi = medium = moderate to low or none from main stat to mits, Will =low = low to none from main stat to mits. With me being happy if we remain 0 as long as the Will classes aren't benefitting disproportionately from their stat. Just kinda seems to make sense from respective roles and cap levels to mits to me.
    Will classes do actually get mits from their Will starting in U10 (tac mit) but I feel it's a fair compromise since their avoidances are virtually 0, where a decent enough hunter will have high parry and nearly capped evade.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LadyDena View Post
    Just because people can climb Mt. Everest it does not mean that Mt. Everest isn't tall, or dangerous, or extremely difficult to climb.

    You know what I saw in that video? A hunter who hovered on the verge of death who was LUCKY to not get crit/dev. A single crit/dev and it means there would be no such video. He traited/spec'd himself for that situation, choosing enemies that don't ignore traps, aren't immuned to fear and aren't immuned to daze. Notice how even with ALL kinds of buffs before the combat started a single hit and he was down 25% of his morale before he even got his first shot off. Then for the next 15 minutes he spent who knows how much consumables in the form of traps and pots. His health was on the verge of getting killed by one more hit multiple times. Again he was lucky that the mobs didn't crit or dev him. I saw someone very skilled at using traps but also very lucky to not get finished off. But you know whats the biggest thing stacked in his favor? Unlike many mobs those trolls don't have any ranged attack. Can you imagine if this is even remotely possible when mobs are shooting back? He'd be dead in seconds and all his traps wouldn't mean a thing. Its an impressive demonstration on how to cc mobs that don't range back and aren't immune to any of his cc. It says absolutely nothing about how vulnerable hunters are.
    His video was a response to the OP which was a QQ about how poor that class was at handling multiple mobs. I thought his video was a perfect response, and in context to the OP. You are the one that came along and started maligning his aproach with inuendo's of "staging" or "choosing" his venue and opponents and then throwing a snarky comment about how he would do agianst "this" or "that" mob/creep. His video was a perfect retort to the OP. Why derail it?
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Samurai7 View Post
    His video was a perfect retort to the OP. Why derail it?
    Because it wasn't.

    OP complained about issues related to leveling a Hunter. Then compared it to another class in similar situations.

    Video presents endgame character, with specialized equipment and cherry-picked opponent. It is a nice example of applying math from CC cooldowns but it has nothing to do with the problem. You technically can acquire raid-level gear and CC-LI for leveling period, but that is different version of the same issue: my [insert class] does not have to do this.

    And, obviously, it is still worthless when ranged mobs are involved.

  15. #15
    I would like to say that video is a fantastic showcase of hunter cc put to fine use. However, there is not a single instance in this game in which that can be applied. If you want to impress me with hunter survival show me a video of you soloing stoneheight at 85 then I will be impressed. My warden can do it t2 in his dps gear.
    Welleg , Kelleg, and Gelleg - Crickhollow
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Otringal View Post
    ALL OF A SUDDEN . . .

    There are 2,

    no . . . 3,

    no . . . . 4 mobs

    ALL OVER YOU,
    [sarcasm] 4 mobs are really not that much of a hassle... [/sarcasm]
    The first one should be dead before it reaches you.
    the second one should be stuck on your trap
    the third one should be scared away (so he can aggro even more adds when the fear runs out) or stunned.
    the forth one should be dealt with easily enough even in melee range...

    then drink potion, the second and third one should now be breaking free of CC.
    stun or fear the third one again (the CC you didn't use before should be now available).

    Kill second one... drink potion
    Kill third one...

    Oh, and most important:
    Only do this if you feel like a challenge... otherwise just run if you draw more attention than expected.

    I leveled my hunter with almost no use of oils/food/bowchants and never had any trouble like you're describing.

    Just be careful not to draw too many mobs. 3 "surprise" mobs should NEVER appear.
    I believe the Warden spoiled you. :P

    Wardens can just faceroll everything in their path...

    NOTE (Important one): I leveled my hunter BEFORE the changes to medium armour. He was quite more sturdy then ... but could still die if he drew 4+ mobs.
    Last edited by Lucanthanas; Mar 01 2013 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Sarcasm wasn't clear enough...
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  17. #17
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    Hunters are actually excellent at soloing multiple mobs. The secret to success is properly utilizing Crowd Control.

    The following video proves that the hunter in this video knows this:


  18. #18
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    Hunters aren't lameo at soloing multiple mobs. Some *players* will be.

    Obviously, with the classes being different, they will not all be equally adept at every part of the game, but Hunters have plenty of tools at their disposal to deal with multiple mobs, in addition to being by far the fastest and deadliest single-target killers on the landscape.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goatimli View Post
    Oh hey look, its another video designed for the filmer to show his epeen.

    Pop quizz kiddies, what Traitline is he in?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Because it wasn't.

    OP complained about issues related to leveling a Hunter.
    Interesting. Let's see if that is true....

    Quote Originally Posted by Otringal View Post

    Why are Hunters so Lameo at soloing multiple mobs????


    Hunters suck so lame at soloing multiple mobs that is almost laughable


    /dustoff
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  21. #21
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    Rain of Thorns... Sure, its a legendary, but trait the damn thing and be done with it... 5 target AoE root, if you pull too much accidentally, or are planning on killing 5 targets at the same time, it does help...

    Hunters are a single target DPS class, sure, your warden can take 10 mobs on at a time and come out nearly full health, but but a hunter and a warden in a DPS race and see what happens.

    Wardens do need a nerf again though...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by 7Samurai7 View Post
    Reading comprehension failure
    .../pat


    Quote Originally Posted by Otringal View Post
    I'm currently working on leveling a 63 Hunter.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucanthanas View Post
    4 mobs are really not that much of a hassle...NOTE (Important one): I leveled my hunter BEFORE the changes to medium armour. He was quite more sturdy then ... but still died if he drew 4+ mobs.
    /facepalm.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Because it wasn't.

    OP complained about issues related to leveling a Hunter. Then compared it to another class in similar situations.

    Video presents endgame character, with specialized equipment and cherry-picked opponent. It is a nice example of applying math from CC cooldowns but it has nothing to do with the problem. You technically can acquire raid-level gear and CC-LI for leveling period, but that is different version of the same issue: my [insert class] does not have to do this.

    And, obviously, it is still worthless when ranged mobs are involved.
    Actually, in the case of levelling a hunter, this video applies perfectly, as 95% of all landscape mobs are not immune to roots/slows/fears/stuns. As such, the skills demonstrated are perfectly applicable to the OPs concerns about a hunter being able to handle multiple mobs. Ones that, let's face it are no where near as dangerous as what the hunter in the video was facing, and he should be able to blow up one or 2 on level mobs before any of them can even reach him, leaving all the cc skills available to deal with additional mobs pulled.
    Secondly, trying to compare any class with a warden for soloing survivability is nigh on stupidity, because let's be serious nothing else can come close.
    Eilinel, Bejaren- 85 Hunters
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenilie View Post
    Actually, in the case of levelling a hunter, this video applies perfectly
    Sigh, nope. Apples and oranges. Single encounter versus hundreds or thousands of various fights. Cherry - picked mobs versus whatever game throws at you. Following the script versus all unexpected complications, random encounters, respawns, list goes on - when talking about thousands of fights, even a small percentage can result in a frustrating number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenilie View Post
    as 95% of all landscape mobs are not immune to roots/slows/fears/stuns.
    Just as significant part of leveling includes ranged and tactical mobs, stuns, debuffs, spawned adds, interrupts and all you can imagine... not present in the vid. You do not cherry - pick mobs during leveling. Well, you can, but it would only prove the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenilie View Post
    As such, the skills demonstrated are perfectly applicable to the OPs concerns about a hunter being able to handle multiple mobs. Ones that, let's face it are no where near as dangerous as what the hunter in the video was facing, and he should be able to blow up one or 2 on level mobs before any of them can even reach him, leaving all the cc skills available to deal with additional mobs pulled.
    Skills have little to do with that vid unless you count basic cooldown math and tabbing among them, used in completely predictable environment. Having proper gear/traitline is also a no-brainer. Not to mention the only reason vid does not end in rez circle lies in favorable RNG, as already pointed out above. I remember hunters soloing questline boss spider in LG on-level (I think there are still posts about that somewhere, along with Helchgam marathon) - while still scripted and melee-centric it was more complicated and punishment for mistakes had less RNG to it. And yet, it still does not compare to having a half of landscape orc camp respawning in your face right when you aggro whatever previous player did not kill. Improvisation and unexpected - this is where class offers rather little and requires more of so-called skills. (yeah, hello PvMP too)

    Also, let's avoid being hilarious - have you actually tried using capstone Yellow for 1-85 leveling? Without dying of old age? Yeah, didn't think so. Down to vanilla CC we go. I am sure Yellow can make plenty of encounters easier. I am also sure hardly anyone cares. Finally, big part of #1 post describes entire chain of preparations - not sure what is the point of making the game even more tedious. This is the word I'd use if I was to argue with OP. Not "difficult". Unless "difficult to enjoy" perhaps. Or unless you make it difficult on your own - like treating gear/traits/other stuff as casually as many other classes can. Not just Wardens. Which kinda supports whatever point OP had in mind when mentioning alts.
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Feb 28 2013 at 02:54 PM.

 

 
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