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  1. #1

    Just starting as Lore Master

    Hello, I am starting a Loremaster and was hoping to have some help with a few questions i have. I am planning on going redline DPS.

    Virtues:

    How should I build my Virtues?
    Is armor more important than Vitality?
    Should I go for Fate/Will vitrues?

    Stats:

    What stats should I focus on?
    Does Might stat help with the damage that Staff Strike does?

    Pets:
    I was thinking of going with the Raven and then Sabertooth but I am not sure what Flanking is? Is it a skill that is on a cool down or does it happen like a crit?


    Thank you very much

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    Hello, I am starting a Loremaster and was hoping to have some help with a few questions i have. I am planning on going redline DPS.
    Going redline may not be the best of ideas at earlier levels, unless you don't mind dying a lot. Once you get the red line capstone though, it becomes worth it.


    Virtues:

    How should I build my Virtues?
    That depends entirely on your playstyle. Zeal, Loyalty, Wisdom, Innocence, and Fidelity spring to mind as useful, and Idealism will be too (after U10). At the earlier levels Empathy isn't bad either, and easy to get via exploration deeds.


    Is armor more important than Vitality?
    Nope.


    Should I go for Fate/Will vitrues?
    If you like. Personally I don't.


    Stats:

    What stats should I focus on?
    Will and Vitality (and soon Fate) are your core stats, followed by raw Mitigations, Morale, Crit and ICPR.


    Does Might stat help with the damage that Staff Strike does?
    Nope, Will.


    Pets:
    I was thinking of going with the Raven and then Sabertooth but I am not sure what Flanking is? Is it a skill that is on a cool down or does it happen like a crit?
    Flanking is a random event on a pet's auto attacks and skills. You hear a little bell, pink arrow flash briefly around the target and they get a debuff icon looking like the pet's Attack Button on the petbar.
    Due to the random nature of the flank effect, the fastest attacking pets usually get the most flanks. The Bog-guardian, Eagle and Raven have the highest flanking rate, although the Sabrecat can reach a decent flank rate too if attacking multiple enemies.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  3. #3

    Welcome!

    Firstly: Welcome to LoTRO, and congrats on picking what is imho the best class in the game! I'll try to quickly answer your questions, but I would like to refer you to the LM Forum for more detailed answers. Most of your questions have been covered in detail there already.

    Regarding Virtues:
    Vitality and Armour are BOTH going to be important early on, as LM's (loremasters) are a "squishy" class. I've never run the numbers, so I can't tell you if Vitality or Armour will give you more bang for your buck.

    Once you've leveled up a bit, get more comfortable with the class, and have more Virtues available, I'd suggest mixing it up a bit. Zeal is a great virtue for survivability, but the power regen of Patience is always good to have.

    Regarding Stats:
    Will is your flat-out most important stat. This is especially important in group play, where LM's sometimes act as "power batteries." We can drain power from enemies and send it to fellowship members. The best kind of battery is the one with the biggest reservoir of power.

    I generally go for Will > Fate > Vitality > Might.

    Regarding Pets:
    While the pet system could use some fixes, it's based on the idea of specific roles for each pet, which makes pet choice largely a situational decision. If you're running MoNF (red traits) then I'd suggest using your Bear. Shatter Arms makes your DPS that much more effective, and the forced taunt will keep the mobs off of you when you get too much aggro. When you're just mowing down landscape mobs, the Lynx gives great initial burst DPS, so you won't have to worry about aggro in that situation. The Sabertooth Cat is largely overrated.

    Regarding Flanks:
    A lot of new LM's don't get this, because it's never explained well in-game. Flanks work like critical hits - your pet has some chance of producing a flank on any of its auto-attacks. It has nothing to do with physically "flanking" the enemy. A flank will be accompanied by a flashing pair of pinkish/red arrows pointing at the mob that has been flanked. The Raven, Eagle, and Bog-guardian have high flank rates. The Bear, Lynx, and Sabertooth have low flank rates.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e215000000074777/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  4. #4

    Red face

    Oh wow thanks so much! That explains why i was not getting flanking by going behind and hitting them with my staff haha. The next question i had was about using a sword and staff. On the wiki it says you can train it at level 28 but it also says it is a leg trait. Which one is correct?

  5. #5
    Short Answer: Both are correct.

    Long Answer:

    A while back, the ability to wield a sword in addition to a staff was given exclusively by the legendary trait you reference. As you'd expect, EVERY LM and their mother slotted that trait because, well, why wouldn't you? It's awesome! So, the devs decided that wielding a sword should be made a trainable passive skill (this is the lvl 28 reference). They took it off the Legendary trait, but the name of the trait remained. Basically, they gave LM's what we all had anyway and freed up another Legendary Trait slot for something else if we wanted it. I still slot the Sword and Staff Legendary Trait because of the stat bonuses, tho.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0e215000000074777/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #6
    Whatever you do OP....don't be afraid to experiment.

    One of the great things about LoTRO is you can change around a lot of your abilities for a given situation....in fact this become more and more important as you get to high levels.

    LM can be comlicated.....but well worth it........it's a class that requires a bit of patience.

    Definitely be mindful of your total morale.....when I first started an LM I was concentrating to much on other stats...I went back and focused a lot more on Vitality and Morale and became much more able to handle things.

    Master Cracked Earth, Blinding Flash, Debuffs, and control of your pet as well as mindful use of your Flanks and you will be on your way.

    Have fun....LM is a great class to play

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralcanwolf View Post
    Regarding Pets:
    While the pet system could use some fixes, it's based on the idea of specific roles for each pet, which makes pet choice largely a situational decision. If you're running MoNF (red traits) then I'd suggest using your Bear. Shatter Arms makes your DPS that much more effective, and the forced taunt will keep the mobs off of you when you get too much aggro. When you're just mowing down landscape mobs, the Lynx gives great initial burst DPS, so you won't have to worry about aggro in that situation. The Sabertooth Cat is largely overrated.
    Silly question maybe, but why the Bear for DPS in MoNF? Isn't the Raven's Mitigation debuff more useful than the Bear's melee/ranged damage debuff? In MoNF our fire damage is somewhat higher than the (still significant) melee damage we put out.

    Oh and I agree with the Lynx until around Lv50 or so, by then its DPS is just &&&&e.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  8. #8
    Flanking: A couple of posters have defined flanks and explained how they happen, but not what it's for (unless I missed it), so:

    A flank is a temporary effect that modifies a couple of your skills for an extra buff when you use them reactively, namely Staff Strike (extra damage) and Wizard's Fire (self heal). Note that the flank is only available for a few seconds and is consumed if you hit one of these skills.

    For more info this appear to be relatively up to date.
    Last edited by StrideColossus; Feb 28 2013 at 11:06 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    3,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    Hello, I am starting a Loremaster and was hoping to have some help with a few questions i have. I am planning on going redline DPS.
    I think red is a great plan, especially for soloing early on.

    For traits it gets tricky. Early on, I usually boost stats like Will and morale. But later in the game, especially if you start grouping, I tend to swap them for -tact damage, icpr, etc. Part of the reason is that you get more stats to will than you will ever need. So you can slot wisdom and get a 1 point dps boost or you could slot something else that you are really lacking in.

    The one trait that seems to stand out as a favorite across classes is Zeal.

    There are no right/wrong answers, so try it out and see how you like it.

    Caster classes are mostly will/fate as far as stats go, but don't neglect your morale/defenses.

  10. #10
    As noted above, play with the class and have fun. If you are standing at the end aof a fight, you did it right. LMs are so versitale there is almost not right or wrong way to setup your LM and play it. Personal play styles count more for this class than the 4 classes I have played. I like the LM so much I have 2 of them.

    A few of my thoughts as to works for my play style.

    1. Early on I like the KoA line for survival. Around level 30 or so I start going more red. Remember at 3 or more your BF gets ganked.

    2. I stack Will/Fate to level 65 keeping only enough Vit to stay alive. I trait my virtues the same. I have no issues in most places handling 3 Orange mobs. In tight zones with limited kiting available I may swap out a few pieces for more vit. This works for me, YMMV.

    3. I prefer the bear as my main pet until I get the eagle, then the eagle except for a few spots. The bears force taunt is critical to me, and once I get the eagle his flanks. While many prefer the lynx, to me it is a one trick pony (stealth strike) that does not scale and the lynx is so fragile it is usless to me. If your style is dependant on CC for survival, you may find the AoE of the saber not so good in close. Pets can be very situational to the zone/instance you may be in.

    4. As I level, I never let my gear/bling get more than 3 levels old. We are a tad squishy to trust under leveled gear.

    This works for me, I have seen some KoA LMs that are just about immortal, but they DPS too slow for my liking. It is another way of playing though. Enjoy, a very fun class if you can master all that we do.
    Used to show a pic... Seems to be broken links now. Good Ole Turbine.

  11. #11
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    Oct 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    Oh wow thanks so much! That explains why i was not getting flanking by going behind and hitting them with my staff haha. The next question i had was about using a sword and staff. On the wiki it says you can train it at level 28 but it also says it is a leg trait. Which one is correct?
    Neither! The level 28 thing is a typo in the wiki - you can purchase a passive skill at level 40 that allows you to equip a sword in your offhand. There is now a legendary trait titled Sword and Staff that gives extra melee damage (and a couple other things).

    Otherwise, Ralcanwolf is completely right, about the background and why it's still called a legendary trait some places.

  12. #12
    I highly recommend that you more than occasionally let your pet take all the aggro and do most of the DPS, while you buff/debuff, cc, and heal. It's good practice. If all you do is staff strike/embers/LotRD/whatever other DPS skill isn't on cooldown and then repeat, you're going to be overwhelmed when you start doing high level instances/raids and are expected to stun/mez/root while keeping a half-dozen debuffs up while making sure your tank and other melee-ers have stun immunity while curing wounds/diseases and while watching your fellows' morale and power levels for healing needs (good times!).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Samsgaard View Post
    I highly recommend that you more than occasionally let your pet take all the aggro and do most of the DPS, while you buff/debuff, cc, and heal. It's good practice. If all you do is staff strike/embers/LotRD/whatever other DPS skill isn't on cooldown and then repeat, you're going to be overwhelmed when you start doing high level instances/raids and are expected to stun/mez/root while keeping a half-dozen debuffs up while making sure your tank and other melee-ers have stun immunity while curing wounds/diseases and while watching your fellows' morale and power levels for healing needs (good times!).
    Yikes!! Now I am a bit scared! How do you prioritize who gets what and when? To me it seems like keeping the healer supplied with power should be first but I have no experence yet.

    That is a awesome idea about letting my pet dps while I handle debuffs and stuns I think I am going to run skirmishes with a warrior and pet to get used to it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    569
    You'll get the hang of it. It just takes some practice. Skirmishes are a good place to practice, but they take you only so far.

    In addition, keep an eye open on the GLFF channel and join small groups. The some good group content at low levels include GB (Greater Barrows) and GA (Garth Agarwen).

    Ask around for help within the game. Where people get into trouble is when they don't say anything at all and hope nobody notices. I've found that many LMs are quite generous with advice. If you mention that you're new, people are often very forgiving of mistakes. Good luck and have fun!

  15. #15
    Thanks a million everyone! I think you all helped to make me a better Lore Master and someone Gandalf would be proud to call such.


    Thank you again

    -Seth

  16. #16
    Ok i lied I need more help lol.

    So I made it to level 38 without being killed (yay) but I am having a hard time with more then two mobs and I think the problem is between the chair and the keyboard rather than the class.

    What is your rotation you use for more than two baddies?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    What is your rotation you use for more than two baddies?
    More a question of tactics rather than rotation as such, we have several stuns and dazes, a few suggestions off the top of my head:

    - You have your Lynx at that level I believe, send it in to attack one of the mobs to get the first big stealth hit in, use Blinding Flash on the other, debuff to help the pet then DPS until the first one's dead repeating the BF as necessary.

    - You also now have herb-lore which insta-roots, try it as an opener to root several enemies for 30s, send in pet and kill one quickly. Also handy in an emergency or if you accidentally pull more than the bargained for.

    - Cracked Earth and a bit of kiting does the same trick.

    - Use warding-lore before pulling if appropriate for the type of mobs.

    If things go bad:

    - Herb-lore as already stated.

    - Light of the Rising Dawn stuns and hits hards.

    - Test of Will can be used similarly although it tends to have a much longer induction.

    - Bear forced taunt? Can't remember when you get the skill, or even if it's level-gated lol.

  18. #18
    I was re-reading the wiki and noticed that since I am traited redline that Blinding Flash only lasts for 5 secs so that explains alot!.

    How is Noble Savage + Hardy Comp + Master of Beasts? It sounds like it turns your pets into combat beasts but I also really want to whack stuff with my sword and staff. For early leveling would you slot Sword and Staff over Noble Savage?

  19. #19
    I personally never ever untrait Sowrd and Staff........some of the blue traits are really nice for buffing up your pets...tho a lot of people don't like them it seems.

    They will definitely be a lot stronger, and you'll get back your long duration Blinding Flash.

    Learn how to use your debuffs and Cracked Earth as well......Cracked Earth is great CC if they don't have a ranged attack.....but you have to make sure not to damage them or the root can be removed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    How is Noble Savage + Hardy Comp + Master of Beasts? It sounds like it turns your pets into combat beasts
    Works good for lvl 40. Really bad for lvl 85.
    Pets don`t scale well.
    I mean - sure, you can level all the way to 85 with blue traitline - but it`ll take you like forever.

    but I also really want to whack stuff with my sword and staff. For early leveling would you slot Sword and Staff over Noble Savage?
    Pre-Rohan the answer was "definitely NO". Today... You may try it. Maybe it`ll work for you for the time being, but around level 50-55 start looking towards Ents+Sword&staff.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    I was re-reading the wiki and noticed that since I am traited redline that Blinding Flash only lasts for 5 secs so that explains a lot!.

    How is Noble Savage + Hardy Comp + Master of Beasts? It sounds like it turns your pets into combat beasts but I also really want to whack stuff with my sword and staff. For early leveling would you slot Sword and Staff over Noble Savage?
    Apologies if this comes over stupid but Its been a long time and I cannot remember what traits you get when (doesn't help that some didn't exist back then -- OK feel old now)

    Anyway. Leveling often benefits from a mixed set up. Traditionally you shouldn't trait deeper than 2 red at low/mid levels to keep the 30 sec Blinding flash. If you have fast loader, its worth looking at traiting it. You can perma-mez one opponent to take it out of the fight by cycling blinding flash on it (30 sec cooldown and Duration). Its takes timing, but can be done.

    Bane flare or storm lore can get you breathing space as well with the advantage of being AoE.

    I would go to 3 red when the benefits outweigh the loss of 10 seconds on your mez. Basically it means when you've got, and can slot Ents. (Ents is near worthless without 3 red 'cos it has a 5 min cooldown; with its 2 mins). Going deeper into the redline is an option when you have the bulk of your AoE skills and feel comfortable just burning it all down.

    You've got 4 class trait slots (maybe 5 by this time). Hardy companion is decent in any event. Master of Beasts is OK, but I'd prefer improved flanking once you get it and Air lore If you want Blue traits. Reds are easy: Flame of Arnor and if you melee, Master of the staff pick themselves.

    Legendaries? In all honesty I've tried Noble savage over the years. They've buffed it a couple of times over the years but it still feels lackluster. Try it and see if you notice a difference. Sword and Staff is not essential any more -- ask any Loremaster how many legendary slots they get and they'll sat 2 (meaning 2 and Sword and staff). You can now use swords without it, but the other buffs are nice enough in their own right. I'd guess most still slot it, if only through inertia. Next legendary you'll get is the eagle, but its a luxury until you get your third legendary slot, and even then slotting one of the capstones could be a better option. By then you should have a better feel for how you want to play anyway, and be swapping builds based on what you are doing.

    Virtues at this point, its more a case of trait what you've got rather than working to a plan. Eventually you will focus on curtain virtues and look to get them all the way to 16 (not whimpering as I type; honest). For now I'd be looking for the traits you have that give you the most:

    1). Morale and Physical mitigation -- both good defensive note these days phys mit is much better than armour for us light wearing types

    2). fate post Update 10; Will now -- primary stat is good, fate looks like becoming very useful in a couple of weeks (don't bother now)

    3) resistance or ICPR -- resistance not great but is useful, ICPR depends if you struggle for power or not.

    4). Vitality or Armour -- Not great, but will do something

    Other stats, out of combat regeneration -- just no.

    Just for information, Innocence, compassion, Zeal, Valour, Wisdom, Idealism, Tolerance and Fidelity should be the ones you look for.


    Sorry, bit stream of consciousness. Bit late for this sort of thing; hope it makes some sort of sense.

  22. #22
    Also when solo'ing you must be careful of losing that 30 second Mez........at higher levels you will need to decide if you can survive just burning through everything with Improved Sticky Gourd and DPS or if you need to be more conservative so you can stay alive in tougher fights.

    There will be places with a lot of adds at once where you can just burn them all down...and then there will be places where having your pet decked out will be much better as healing and the toughness of your companion will be far more beneficial with a lot of blues traited.

    Learn to use it all.........many place in LoTRO are sitautional........like I said before the great thing is there is no real permanent setup, at any time you are free to change things out, the great thing about instances is you can even leave for a few minutes to talk to a Bard at just about any point....this is a really great feature to be aware of and make use of, and it also allows you to sell and repair really quick as well....just make sure you get it all done within a few minutes or the instance will reset.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seth5052002 View Post
    Ok i lied I need more help lol.

    So I made it to level 38 without being killed (yay) but I am having a hard time with more then two mobs and I think the problem is between the chair and the keyboard rather than the class.

    What is your rotation you use for more than two baddies?
    A technique I use when i can..

    If i have 3 mobs. The pet is on one. I keep one mezzed with blinding flash and put wind-lore on the third ranged target. Works even better with "The Study of Wind-lore" trait.. The ranged mob's damage i can heal through while first mob gets killed.

  24. #24
    Oh man thank you so much everyone for real! Everything has been super helpful and I am now working on getting my legendary traits. For some reason Staff and sword just wont drop and its the one i cant wait to get!

    I am also working on my virtues, but I think I may need to grind some out because it feels like I am getting wrecked if I fight more then one mob in Angmar. What level were your virtues when you were 39 (if you remember of course).

    Question about sword and staff, do we become like combat monsters? I am picturing this awesome warrior mage that can burn and fight through any monster toe to toe.

  25. #25
    Sword and staff makes a huge difference to melee capability of the lore master. At level 39 you don't have powerful aoe attacks yet. Against multiple mobs you have blinding flash, bane flare and herb lore to lock down multiple mobs. Call of the valar resets these abilities. Bane flare is interesting in that the first five seconds of the effect is a daze not a stun, so it can be used following a stun without being negated by stun immunity. You can attack during the daze period without breaking the cc, cracked earth is an excellent follow up to bane flare as the root effect of cracked earth will take effect as the mez from bane flare wears off. Once you get powerful aoes and water lore you can burn through large numbers of mobs at once.
    Last edited by Idiotvillage; Mar 08 2013 at 07:27 PM.

 

 
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