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  1. #1

    Trait-Tree Ideas for RockX

    since Kelsan stated in the burglar forum, that they are experimenting with a tree system for the classes, we should collect hopes and concerns in an own thread, to give some feedback to our developer. Since I'm not really good in those things (English isn't my main language), I'm starting with two obvious hopes and concerns:

    My hopes:

    - I generally like skill trees in games (for example in Path of Exile) and the system in mounted combat wasn't that bad. My hope is, that a tree system could give options for more different and unique builds.

    My concerns:

    - A tree system could also lead to static builds. For example a build for Damage, a build for Healing and a build for tanking. When done wrong, the game could loose a lot of its flexibility. For example I built my warhorse tree once and have no intentions, to change anything on it.

    But Kelsan already said, that they are aware of this problem:

    The only Trees currently in LotRO are the Mounted Combat trees which are linear and restrictive. This design makes perfect sense for a system that is exclusive to a small level band and limited by encounter type. With this as the current example of Trees, it is a logical assumption that should we move classes to a Tree system that it would be very similar.
    All I can say is that, our classes are much more complex and hinge on player choice. Our experiments in Trees have been to support/encourage player experimentation in both specialization and generalization.

    P.S. I'd prefer such a tree system for my legendary items over the current legacy system at any time.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Manchester, UK
    Hmm. Interesting. A tree system INSTEAD of the classes could be good. Have to watch that everyone doesn't end up building whatever the current flavour of the month happens to be, tho. Make it easy to spend, but real-time consuming to recover spent points? It would also be nice to have no cap on how many points you can assign to any given ability.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    All I have to say is, "please, no trait trees." I rather like LotRO's approach and would prefer it not be like most every other mmo.
    Hromgar, Captain
    Wardens of Numenor, Landroval

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Seattle, WA
    What I would like to see is communication in the process. Give us more intervals for uproar and the inevitable acceptance..a controlled burn, so to speak. If they wait until it's all ready to go to Beta, it's gonna be a lot of flame all at once, and could result in pushing people over the edge (as far as their desire to play).
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  5. #5
    Please no Trait trees. Lotro's system is so much better than the tree system. Are people really complaining about traits? If you want to make people happy fix the LI system, fix the fight clubbing in the moors, fix items on the bug list, add a new pvmp map, but don't go fixing what isn't broken. There is plenty of broken that needs fixing.


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by borges_maze View Post
    All I have to say is, "please, no trait trees." I rather like LotRO's approach and would prefer it not be like most every other mmo.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Mellora1 View Post
    Double agreed!
    Second Marshall Maywyn Eorthas of Rohan - Captain - Rank 13

    Tyrant Gate Wargkönig, Son of Krithmog - Stalker - Rank 15

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Watertown, MA
    What do people hate so much about trait trees? I'm genuinely curious.

    See, because the current system gives us only 8 class traits per line, to go into 7 trait slots. And at least for Captains, one trait slot always goes to Now For Wrath, at which point a second one needs to always go to another Blue trait, usually Relentless Optimism, because both Red and Yellow have at least three traits that are never worth equipping, and there's no incentive to take more than 5 in any one line anyway.

    So it can't be that people hate trait trees because they promote stale builds, because it would be tremendously difficult to get trait builds that are any staler than what the current system gives us.

    So. I'm curious. What's so bad about trait trees?
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by borges_maze View Post
    All I have to say is, "please, no trait trees." I rather like LotRO's approach and would prefer it not be like most every other mmo.
    ^ This

    At a time, when just months ago, the "market leader" moved away from a strict trait-tree system to a system more like LOTRO's current system because trait trees are far too restrictive, reduce player enjoyment and because of both of those was leading to players leaving the game it makes no sense at all for Turbine to be taking what is, in effect, a retrograde move for the industry.

    LOTRO's trait system was one of the more progressive such systems in the industry - I fail to see how taking a step backwards can be seen as progress.

    All The Best

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    I also agree that the talent tree system is an old and passing thing, and that lotro should not migrate to it. The system lotro currently uses is quite honestly the best I have seen in any mmo to date. The change from it to a old system that dates back to I believe before diablo II. I can't really remember any game before diablo II which used the talent tree system.

    It's old and not very well thought out as a whole because it ends up always being too restrictive in the long run. It prevents people from being creative with there choices and pigeon holes them into "optimal builds". The reason it does this is because each skill is always successively gated behind the next, so to get any actual progress one is required essentially to invest fully into one tree. This in turn kills hybrid roles, which is a problem mmo's have had since there inception. The Dreaded Tank/mage/warrior combo of doom. However turbine has effectively fixed that issue with there current trait system, the talent tree system will only break it again.



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