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Thread: Reeevaaaaaamp!

  1. #126
    RockX is offline The Lord of the Rings Online Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by IngeniousMrToad View Post
    Do you plan on finding a way to get the opinions of those Captains who do not frequent the forums, or do you just plan to listen to the vocal Tanking, DPS, Moors - Happy, forum- dwellers? Just curious.
    Our official forums are a source of feedback. They are not the only source of feedback.

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Our official forums are a source of feedback. They are not the only source of feedback.
    Does Turbine "watch" certain players? I've always thought there were players I figured turbine should pay attention to, that they were yardsticks for the game. At least the endgame types. I remember there was a 'moors raid leader that was really into it and lead raids daily for a few years and then he quit the game, if Turbine knew why. Some with some kin leaders of major kins who leave. Do they know why? Do they care? Maybe they just attribute it to RL or natural game fatique.. But do they really know? Would it be valuable for them to know? Would they do anything with the knowledge?

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    Our official forums are a source of feedback. They are not the only source of feedback.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    Dang spirits got the caps lock down. Stop shouting spirits, we can hear you just fine!!
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  5. #130
    Greetings RockX and good luck with working on Captains.
    There are two major topics I would like to expose: The Captain's signature feature buffing and their dps when traited and geared for it. Additionally I will mention power management as a side note. Even though those are the main topics of my essay it will be a lot of reading with numerous subcategories.

    Buffs:
    In my opinion some buffs have degenerated over the years most notably due to the stat revamp with RoI. Ratings and caps went up or were removed altogether. Back on lvl 65 I could buff 1215 Critical Rating with a SA buffstick while the cap was at 4550, i.e. over 25% of that value. Nowadays the cap is at 13400 while I can only buff around 1800, i.e. less than 15% of the cap.
    The same goes for To Arms (Blade-brother): Back then players usually had 20% to 30% Offence and around 20% from a stance if applicable. So To Arms (Blade-brother) used to increase damage by about 25% / 140% = 17,9%. These days Mastery is beyond 100% so this skill only buffs 25% / 220% = 11,4% (Anthem of War has the same problem).
    I suggest changing To Arms (Blade-brother) to give +skill damage instead of +damage similar to the Reaver's Relentless buff at low health. Thus the damage boost is always the same and independent of Mastery ratings, legacies, traits etc. (maybe reduce its potency to 15% if 25% are too overpowered, also this would even be in line with To Arms (Shield-brother)). The same goes for To Arms (Song-brother) with +skill healing.
    Watch out for +skill damage legacies (e.g. Champion) and traits (e.g. Hunter) though as I would like To Arms (Blade-brother) to be independent of them.
    +Skill damage/healing means that skills gain exactly the bonus which is stated in the tooltip and is not reduced by ratings, traits, legacies and so on as the base is just 100% and not 100% + all other bonuses.

    The next question is: Why are some buffs based on ratings and others on percentage? Relentless Attack and On Guard increase rating, while To Arms, Strength of Will, War-cry, Make Haste and Motivating Speech increase a percentage. Both tactics increase with level but as one needs more rating with higher levels the 'improvement' is just canceled out and the effects stay the same.
    Would it not be easier to change Relentless Attack to buff critical chance, devastating chance and (with the next update) critical magnitude in percent while On Guard increases parry chance, partial parry chance and partial parry mitigation in percent? Depending on rating RA now gives between 2.2% and 5% crit chance, 0.7% to 1.6% dev chance and 2.3% to 6.6% critical multiplier. OG gives roughly the same numbers: 2.5% to 5.6% parry chance and 0.8% to 1.7% partial parry chance/mitigation.
    How about changing both tactics to percentages in the corresponding range? E.g. 4% parry/crit chance/multiplier and 1.3% devastating/partial parry chance/mitigation (bonuses depend of course from the tactic used). Why do I think so? Because ratings on level based skills are neither intuitive nor productive and they are subject to a cap. Guardian's Defence, Overpower and Counter Defence also allow certain stats (Block, Parry and Crit) to ignore caps, so why not tactics as well?

    Regarding Tactics: How about introducing new tactics so players may have more choice? There could be several defensive tactics like +Parry (On Guard), +Block, +Evade, +Resistance or +Critical Defence in addition to some offensive ones: +Crit (Relentless Attack), +Finesse or +Armour Penetration, all of course without buffsticks (legacies for 30 minutes buffs are just rolled into the tactic/Motivating Speech). Thus players can choose the tactic they need most.
    Would it be possible or even desired to let tactics stack on the same character with lowered values (e.g. half crit and half finesse)? But that would probably make buffing even more work.

    Furthermore I would like to see the cooldown on battle rezzes reduced even though they are reset in the newer raids when activating a boss. The need for a trait, legacy and at least one armour set (which are nerfed in the coming update) seems a bit much. Not letting some bonuses, especially armour set bonuses, stack and reducing the cooldown by maybe five minutes could help a lot.

    DPS:
    When creating a new Captain the Class Info states:

    Captains are armoured melee fighters and masters of buffing; skills that enhance allies. They may summon a Herald companion to fight by their side, ensuring they always have an ally to buff. They can also Mark foes, giving benefits to all who attack them. In fellowships, a Captain supports his allies with healing and buffs, while still dealing respectable damage.
    As others in this thread have already pointed out, a Captain's dps is the lowest of all classes while traited for damage which is a clear contradiction to the text quoted above. This means dealing damage in a group as a Captain is neither fun nor rewarding, questing is quite slow and soloing in the Ettenmoors is nearly impossible. Unfortunately I have not played a Captain before the combat changes with SoM so I have never experienced the class's dps pontential back then but it is said to have been quite impressive.
    As I have already mentioned, leveling a Captain is so painfully slow. It gets better at higher levels with Blade-brother and Master of War but the level required for the former is 74. I would suggest introducing all brother skills at level 22 together with Shield-brother without their stats like +crit, +regeneration and -threat and then upgrading them at 70 and 74 respectively. While this does not help the Captain's dps until level 58 where Master of War can be acquired, the Captain can have access to those important skills at low levels just when grouping content (or what is left of it) begins.

    In order to deal 'respectable damage' there are several ways possible to improve that are not exclusive to each other.

    First: Attack speed

    A Captain attacks really slow especially with a two handed weapon and therefore needs Strength of Will (Blade-brother) and Improved War-cry just to attack fluently without waiting for the next attack to fire. Now one cannot keep War-cry up all the time depending on situation, using Blade-brother is not always an option and traiting for Master of War even less. This means an increase in attack speed would really benefit the fluidity of combat and thus the class in general.
    But: Increased attack speed comes at a cost being power consumption and cooldowns. I do not yet know how the new update will affect a Captain's power but this is a point to keep in mind. And the class sometimes runs out of skill which are not on cooldown, so adding a new low cooldown dps skill or just reducing melee skills cooldowns for traiting Lead the Charge would work quite well.

    Second: Crit multipliers

    While the 2-set bonus of Lead the Charge looks quite nice (+15% crit multiplier) it is in fact really low compared to other classes. Champions can get a legacy with +50% and a trait with +25%, Hunters have a trait set bonus with +10%, legacies with 25% for skills and 13% for a stance while Burglars have a devastating hit buff which grants +20% and +15% from a legacy and Guardians have a stance for +20% and several trait set bonuses for up to +30%.
    A Minstrel has a legendary trait with +100% for the most damaging skills, Lore-masters have a legacy with +25% for fire skills and Rune-keepers have a trait set bonus with +25% and a legacy with +30% for lightning skills. Additional there are still items with +Tactical Critical Multiplier for the last three classes (though they benefit the healing Captain as well).
    I would like Captains to have a good chunk more crit multipliers as they have by far the lowest ones save for Wardens. I have seen a proposal of a 'Relentless Optimism for melee skills' trait in this thread and I think this is a very good idea (including Battle Shout would not be a bad idea as well). A legacy or a tiered trait set bonus like Guardians have would work, too.
    Together with the +5% crit chance set bonus of Lead the Charge this would help a lot in the dps department.

    Third: Bleeds/Blade of Elendil

    The Captain has two bleeds being Cutting Attack and Blade of Elendil. While the former has a solid duration and even a slow in its improved version, the damage could be improved considerably (via trait). The long cooldown makes this skill rather bad especially when it is avoided (Ettenmoors!).
    The latter skill has a chance for everyone in the fellowship to cause a bleed on their target which in theory sounds nice. But in reality the bleeds do not stack and are even lower than the one of Cutting Attack. They could very much use a drastic increase in damage as well as stackability (once per fellowship member).
    Furthermore I suggest three different versions of Blade of Elendil due to their different buffs. Each of them uses the battle-hardened state (i.e. only one can be used) and every version has a different effect namely those that are gained by the various improvement.
    One only provides the chance for the group wide stacking bleed Light of Elendil just as the original skill does (with a huge damage increase). The next version can be used to remove corruptions without the bleed and selfbuff and the last version provides the buffs of Inspiring Blade of Elendil without bleed or curruption removal as there are lots of fights where dots or corruption removals are not wanted (e.g. Ivar, the Lieutenant, Flâgît) but those buffs are always useful.
    The only drawback is that this proposition creates two additional skills though I think the benefits (and choices) are worth the trouble.

    Fourth: Heralds

    A Captain's companions are really weak on higher levels but as this topic has already been pointed out elsewhere I will not do so here.

    Fifth: Skill damage

    Battle-master and Adherent of Elendil are quite solid traits for increasing skill damage being even better than comparable traits for the Hunter. Renewed Voice and especially Expert Attacks do their work very well but the rest does not help a lot due to low damage on Heralds and Routing Cry anyway. Regarding Turn of the Tide: The stun does not help much as it is too short compared to the skill's animation duration especially in the Ettenmoors.
    There are only two legacies on the weapon which increase Blade of Elendil and Cutting Attack bleed damage and a legacy for Shadow's Lament cooldown on the emblem though all of them can be regarded as good. The legacies for Pressing Attack/Devastating Blow critical ratings are too low compared to Expert Attacks and critical ratings in general, so they should be combined and buffed a lot. Pressing Attack max targets is a nice legacy and would be even nicer if it affected Routing Cry as well just as a +AoE targets legacy would do.
    Even with so many traits and legacies used the damage is still low. I am not a fan of must-have overpowered legacies of which the captain has too much already. That is why I advise against increasing the power of legacies. At least four traits are fine as well, so a solution could be additional damage on the Lead the Charge trait set bonuses like the Guardian, the Lore-master or the Hunter have in their respective trait lines. Especially since most other classes' trait lines have several bonuses per tier and the Captain feels a bit lacking in this regard (this applies to Leader of Men and Hands of Healing as well).

    So in short increasing attack speed in general with lower cooldowns, increasing damage and crit multipliers via trait set bonuses for Lead the Charge as well as better bleeds and stronger heralds will all contribute to 'dealing respectable damage'.

    Combining all those aforementioned points together could probably prove too much of an improvement but if balanced properly, the Captain could gain a significant boost in terms of dps if traited and geared for it.

    Power management:

    Two years ago I never had power issues on my Captain but while closing in on level 85 I realized that it gets from bad to worse. Admittedly I still have to gear up my character properly first, so I will see whether I have enough place for -power cost legacies and lots of Fate. I will not propose anything for now as long as I have not finished my equipment yet and then I will have to see what the next update will bring.

    There are definitely other issues with this class (tanking, legendary traits, legacy distribution/cost) as well but all of them have already been discussed so I will not add anything here.


    RockX, I hope I succeeded in providing constructive feedback concomitant with a good argumentation while not burying you under a huge wall of text.

  6. #131
    Hello RockX! Thank you for this thread, it is much appreciated.

    I love my captain. It is my main and baring any drastic overhauls to its current concept, it will continue to be for as long as I play this game. It is the hybrid and buffing aspects of the class that draw me to it the most. I like being able to do damage and healing and generate some threat while making other classes better at their main roles and affecting the outcome of a battle. At times the captain can be complex and challenging, but that is a good thing. That's part of what makes it fun. What I do not want to see is a change to the nature of the captain as it is now. For example, I would not want to see our trait lines force us into more specific roles than they are now (i.e. not be able to heal while traited Master of War). We should be able to perform all three roles at all times, but do them more effectively depending on how we trait. Nevertheless I do feel there is some tweaking and upgrading that is needed. I will try to describe them the best I can.

    The Inspiring Captain
    I feel that some of our buffs needs some buffs and some of our skills need some buffs. I'll just focus on a couple here. When I have an on-defeat event, I make a choice--depending on the situation--to throw Rallying Cry or War Cry (I'm not including Shadow's Lament in here since it is opened up by traiting MoW) but I never think to myself, "Or I could throw Routing Cry and that would be awesome!" Two of these three on-defeat events affect my party and one does not. I would like to see some sort of effect added to RoC. Something that affects my group. It could be an outgoing damage debuff on the mobs it hits, or it could be an incoming damage buff to my party, or something else entirely. Yes, slotting Turn the Tide does add a 3s stun to the skill, but lets be honest, a 3s stun is not something that is going to "turn the tide" (an 8s stun, yes, but not 3s) and a stun does not affect bosses. I would really like to see this skill improved, something that will actually make me think about which of these three on-defeat skills I want to use. And its damage needs to be increased. Maybe increased damage could be tied to the MoW traitline or capstone.

    Fighting Withdrawal needs some work. In general, I would like to see a tiny bit more threat management outside of LoM. This could be in the form of being able to put Fighting Withdrawal on anybody in our party or adding some more threat to Threatening Shout. I would like the ability to either pull a mob off another player in a raid or help another player reduce their threat.

    The Legendary Captain
    I would definitely like to see some tweaking of our Legendary traits. You can throw me in with the group that is disappointed with the change to IDOME come the next update. It's probably just my OCD. I have not been on BR to experience the changes first hand and therefore can't really comment on their effect on Captains, but I don't think I will ever be able to look at the tooltip without some feeling of discomfort again. Maybe IDOME needs to become a regular skill, or maybe it just needs to be reworked.

    One thing I would definitely like to see done is actually in reference to SotD. I would like to have a mini version of SotD available if the legendary skill is not traited. Perhaps just a -15% incoming damage effect when not traited?

    I think the capstones are generally very good, but would be happy if they were each made a tiny bit more effective (i.e. add a tiny bit more outgoing healing to HoH, a tiny bit more outgoing damage to MoW, and a tiny bit more threat generation to LoM).

    The Captain's Entourage
    Lets face it, heralds need a lot of love. I would like to see much better benefits when using a herald. Increased damage or better buffs would be a start. But I would like to have a very good reason why I would use a herald in certain situations and a banner in others. Right now, there is little reason (save for lower levels). I would also like to see the Oathbreaker herald's armor scale with your level. It's been stuck at the same level since I got it years ago.

    Some of our banners need some work as well. The banner of war completely ignores our tactical brothers and sisters. How about we add Will to the existing Might and Agility or better yet, we switch the group-wide effects to Physical Mastery, Tactical Mastery, and crit. I also wouldn't mind seeing the Coldfells Banner of Defence have passive stats that are different than the Banner of War instead of the same duplicate ones. One last thing about banners, I would like to see their range extended somewhat. Having to constantly replant my banner during a boss fight because stuff moved does not create for fun gameplay.

    The Appendix
    I know you said to restrict our posts to the top 3 things, but I am going to add a few miscellaneous items here. After all, the game is based on Tolkien's writings and what would his writings be without their appendices? Mine will be much, much, much, much shorter.
    • Would like to see noble mark leach a small amount of threat in addition to its current abilities while traited LoM.
    • Blade of Elendil DoT needs some work. Maybe increase the damage of the DoT or turn it into some sort of debuff.
    • Words of courage definitely needs a bigger up front heal.
    • Battle Shout needs to do much more damage. Considering we have very few ranged skills, a significant boost to damage would make a world of difference. Maybe even do something more intricate, like do more damage the lower the target's morale is or something along those lines.
    • Would like to see something done with Tactic: Focus. I haven't used this in ages (save for threatening champs and hunters that if they pull aggro again, their getting a focus buff) and I worry with the upcoming changes that I won't ever use it again.
    • Would it be too overpowered if a little something extra were added to In Harms Way? I know the damage the Captain takes had to be lowered a number of years ago but I wouldn't mind seeing it get a small boost. Maybe a tiny morale bubble, or a group buff, or something else. I love this skill and want more reasons to use it.
    • Could the range on Cry of Vengeance be increased slightly? I can't tell you how many times I've used this only to have the player be just slightly out of range. Also, on a couple of occasions, I have had this skill rez someone outside of my fellowship/raid in the Moors. Just wanted to mention that while I was on the topic of this skill.
    Thanks again for this thread!

  7. #132
    Just commenting on the DPS-aspect - I think we're perfectly alright as far as grouping is concerned. We contribute to dps by buffing the other classes, so I'm happy with being a low dps-dealer myself.
    This obviously doesn't work when soloing, which is ... slow. So a damage increase there would be nice, if it is limited to solo play.
    The easiest way to tweak that would be to give the oathbreaker-heralds a quite significant boost in sturdyness and damage output (perhaps reduce their cds). We get them when the other heralds become fairly useless and we have to trait red to employ them, so nobody would use them in groups and there should't be any balancing issues (I don't PvP so feel free tor correct me on that).
    Getting the brother skills earlier won't help that much, but should be done anyway as they help to learn the class and simply make grouping more fun.

  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DickerHund View Post
    Just commenting on the DPS-aspect - I think we're perfectly alright as far as grouping is concerned. We contribute to dps by buffing the other classes, so I'm happy with being a low dps-dealer myself.
    And this is proof that many of the captains suffer from a Stockholm-like syndrome where it's OK to have low DPS because we buff the other classes - even though the other classes factor our buffs into what DPS they can do.....
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  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    And this is proof that many of the captains suffer from a Stockholm-like syndrome where it's OK to have low DPS because we buff the other classes - even though the other classes factor our buffs into what DPS they can do.....
    Maybe it would be fairer and make more sense if captain DPS were shifted along a gradient from "self" to "other," where high self-DPS means we have no group buffs (self-buffing only) and the other end has all the group buffs.

  10. #135
    If there's one thing I would like to see improved, it's the captain's traits, especially the trait set bonuses. The set bonuses come nowhere near the potency of the other classes' bonuses.

    Leader of Men: While I am a current user of this trait line, I'm still quite disappointed by it. I feel that too much attention was put into threat generation. This seemed to cause survivability to be neglected. What I would like is almost a total revamp of this trait line, making it more of a buffer's trait line than a tank's. I just don't think that captain's could be very efficient tanks. Also, buffing is the captain's main role. One trait that I think would be mandatory (best word I could think of) would be a trait to replace the morale from motivating speech, and would have the same affects as if the legacy were at its max rank. The legacy is pretty much required (by me at least) for a legendary weapon to be useful.

    Hands of Healing: The only thing I can think of to improve these traits is to improve the Words of Courage trait. As much as I like the larger heal, I think many agree that it'd be nice if it made the HoT stack to three.

    Lead the Charge: I think too much attention is given to improving the pets. The Loyalty trait should still be there, but not Precise Ally. It's just not a big enough bonus to be useful by the level you get it. I'll go ahead and suggest a trait to replace it. This trait would decrease the cool down of Sure Strike by one second, increases the damage by 20%, and also allows it to bypass the enemy's evade.
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  11. #136
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    Hey Rock, just like to offer a suggestion or 6

    First - play style. Are we talking PvP or PvE? But it doesn't really matter as I want to focus on the getting to rather than the got

    Many of the ppl here making great suggestions for a higher grade or end-game Cappie, but what about working up to that? You have to get to lvl85 and to do that you need to solo much of the time. I have found that the captain is not as sustainable in the lower levels as many of the classes so it would be really good to allow the Captain to be more self-sufficient. Then using the armour and weapons, position him to be either a end-game healer/debuff/buff expert.

    My suggestion for lower levels is achieve the ability to dual wield sword & dagger and have the ability to fling (as the trolls have with us) at 25. The dual-wield skill will be the highest it will ever be (so we can one-shot lvl25 npcs) and as we grow in levels reduce the capability (leave it static). This gives us a boost when we need it and encourages us to explore the joys of the captain as we now know it, later on. BTW - heralds...pain in the butt - lose them

    Just my 2cents worth

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranthir524 View Post
    Leader of Men: While I am a current user of this trait line, I'm still quite disappointed by it. I feel that too much attention was put into threat generation. This seemed to cause survivability to be neglected. What I would like is almost a total revamp of this trait line, making it more of a buffer's trait line than a tank's.
    This is how it used to be. Raskolnikov decided to decouple the buffing from the line, since he felt the buffing was something we should do equally as well in any trait line, and I and most other captains appear to agree with him.

    Captains can be good tankers. They just need to revamp the line to improve tanking, instead of tanking the tanking line and reversing it to a buffing line again.

    (If it ever becomes a buffing line again, you're essentially not going to be able to leave that trait line for group content.)
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  13. #138
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    If you re-change the LoM traitline into a buffing line, this will be the must-have traitline...

    No one wants a captain as a Main damagedealer in a raid

    No one wants a captain as a Main healer in a raid

    Captains support damage, support healing, support as an offtank and buff their group regardless of what position they take!
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  14. #139

    thread interupt

    No one should be able to have a creep and a freep on the same server. You know why. maybe U11?.
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  15. #140
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    I'll leave all the smart suggestions to the smart people because everything I want for captains is dumb :

    - Less screaming, more battlecries ("For Gondor ! For Dale ! For Tacos !")
    - Less screaming, more optional warhorns (Boromir did it ! Then he died but still...)
    - Dwarf Captains : more screaming but awesome screaming.

    Yeah, the constant screaming is getting on my nerves.

  16. #141
    I just found this thread now. :P
    I have written a few (maybe lot) ideas to the following post:

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-for-Egg/page2

    Please don't blame me because these are not only 3 things - I didn't know about this restriction when writing my ideas.

    PS. They are at the bottom of the page, more exactly the last 2 replies (number 62 and 63. I hope noone is writing something there to make them be elsewhere.
    Ohh, and one thing I forgot about. Be it my 3rd point then:
    Armaments should give bonuses like banners do. (Max morale, mastery, max power, and mitigations on the moors banner.) The 'Why?' is that most captains are using the banners exactly because of these bonuses.

  17. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsonlyFrae View Post
    No one should be able to have a creep and a freep on the same server. You know why. maybe U11?.
    I think someone took a wrong turn in the forums.
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  18. #143
    Ok OK. Scrap all the heralds and replace them with a mule to carry all our armor as an extra bag. The mule would of course be an oath breaker mule because he failed his last owner and got lost, aggroed everything and got his owner killed.

    The mule would have only 1 skill. Fear. Which it uses in combat. Fear - The mule becomes panicked and runs off into a random direction, aggros everything and dies.
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  19. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    Ok OK. Scrap all the heralds and replace them with a mule to carry all our armor as an extra bag. The mule would of course be an oath breaker mule because he failed his last owner and got lost, aggroed everything and got his owner killed.

    The mule would have only 1 skill. Fear. Which it uses in combat. Fear - The mule becomes panicked and runs off into a random direction, aggros everything and dies.
    Unfortunately, I don't have any reputation to give you for this.
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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    Ok OK. Scrap all the heralds and replace them with a mule to carry all our armor as an extra bag. The mule would of course be an oath breaker mule because he failed his last owner and got lost, aggroed everything and got his owner killed.

    The mule would have only 1 skill. Fear. Which it uses in combat. Fear - The mule becomes panicked and runs off into a random direction, aggros everything and dies.
    Rock make this happen!

  21. #146
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by RockX View Post
    the top 3 things about the class you'd like to see change.
    Jon

    Welcome aboard, I'm really excited to see some Captain love. I'd like to give you some reference for my opinions. I Played Closed Beta SoA, am a kin leader, and a strong mix of casual player with Raid, PVMP. I have 2 level 85 captains, because I love captains so much, I have no other level 85 characters. (At one point in time I wanted the second set of raid locks) I believe that imagery and flavor is more important than stats/mechanics, but game-play trumps all. I hope that you read my critique and suggestions with as much passion and energy I gave writing them.

    1) Heralds!

    Why:
    Conceptually, Captains are leaders of men, our heralds are the embodiment of our dedication to leadership. We should be incentivized to use them, not the current disincentive.

    Mechanically, at cap we sacrifice approx. 2000 Morale and 15dps to use a herald; we need a benefit worth this sacrifice. Comparing it to a LM pet, they sacrifice nothing in order to get a pet that can start FMs or tank a mob.

    Suggestion:
    a) Add an appropriate herald buff on each trait line capstone. Eg:
    LoM- Your herald generates additional threat and all threat is transferred to the captain. When the captain’s Morale falls below ½ the Herald triggers a heal where the Herald sacrifices ½ of it’s morale to heal an equal amount to the Captain.
    HOH- Your herald gains a healing trait such as every strike against a foe also heals the fellowship an equal amount distributed. When the captain’s Power falls below ½ the Herald triggers a power restore where the Herald sacrifices ½ of it’s own power to restore an equal amount to the Captain.
    LTC- Tactical awareness, there is a 20% chance on any successful strike the Herald applies a buff to the Captain with a +10% crit. chance and a +15% magnitude. The Herald also receives an effect that all strikes apply a bleed, damage over time, effect equal to the damage range for the strike.

    Also Give Herald Armaments more variety of function, eg. The Oathbreakers armaments should apply a fear effect to enemies. The Dwarf armaments can deal ancient dwarf damage and add morale, etc.

    2) Trait line Capstones

    2a) Leader of Men capstone Leader of Men

    Suggestion: Add Medium (Warden) shield use to this capstone.

    Why:
    Although LoM traited captains can manage agro, they are still “squishy” compared to Champion tanks (Who can out tank and DPS the captain at the same time). However any fix would have to be a soft fix and not unbalancing, they can’t be as good as GDN/WDN at agro control.

    2b) Lead the Charge capstone Master of War

    Why:
    If a captain is willing to sacrifice their healing traits for DPS the effect should be worth the exchange. As it stands currently a Champion traited “tank” (The martial champion) still generates significantly more DPS than a Captain traited LtC. In effect this causes a raid leader to select even a poorly traited button masher champ over a skilled Red traited Captain.

    Suggestion:
    +10% damage
    +25% dev. Magnitude to Pressing attack and Devastating Blow
    +35% routing cry damage (for a combined +45% ((or 50% with Turn the Tide)))

    2c) Hands of Healing requires no change

    3) Captains Buff traits

    Why:
    Aside from being the most versatile class in LOTRO, the Captains primary responsibility is motivating a group. This is done through our buffs. There is no reason that we effectively have 2 traits that we can select to improve our buffs. (although we potentially have 3 traits to improve our banners, it makes no sense to trait more than 1 of these.)

    3a) Banner Traits
    The Captain’s Victory, Captain’s Hope, and Captain’s Valour traits should either Consolodated to 1 trait other relevant buffs added to each separate trait. E.g.
    Consolodated:
    “Captain of Quality: The enhancing effects provided by your Herald or Standard are more effective. This bonus applies to Hope, Victory, and War.”
    or,
    Relevant buffs added:
    CVict: banner effects +power , +Tactic: On Guard (parry buff) and +5% To Arms (Shield Brother)
    CHope: banner effects +Morale, +Tactic: Focus (icpr buff) and + 5% To Arms (Song Brother)
    CValour: banner effects +Str/Agi, +Tactic: Relentless Attack (crit buff) and +5% To Arms (Blade Brother)

    3b) Additional trait buffs
    Each trait line should have at least 2 buff enhancing traits. This would emphasize our primary role in a fellowship and give us control over how effective our buffs are.

    e.g.
    Hands of Healing Trait line:
    Great Orator: Motivating speech also adds +xxx tact and phys mitigations and +xxx resistance.
    Defensive Maneuvers: Defensive strike applies it’s armour benefits to the entire fellowship

    Leader of Men Trait line:
    Heroic Sacrifice: Improves “In Harm’s Way” to absorb 90% of damage
    Tactical prowess (currect trait)

    Lead the Charge Trait line:
    Vengence of Elendil: Light of Elendil (the bleed) gains +50% damage and can stack up to 3 times
    Captain’s Mark: Improves your “telling mark” to “captain’s mark” allowing it to stack with other Captain’s Telling Mark
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000035761/01003/signature.png]Kromvell[/charsig]

    DRAGONELDER
    Founder of Dragon

  22. #147
    My only issue is that the class guzzles power like crazy. My cappy will be huffing and puffing after two or three fights, while my other non-cappy toons would still be going strong.

    I don't have much problem with the dps issue as a captain is not supposed to be a frontline fighter. If you want to be a frontline soldier then play a champ or guard.

  23. #148
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,628
    Quote Originally Posted by Trilwych View Post
    Maybe it would be fairer and make more sense if captain DPS were shifted along a gradient from "self" to "other," where high self-DPS means we have no group buffs (self-buffing only) and the other end has all the group buffs.
    Unless captain DPS is buffed to be on par with the primary DPSers at the expense of buffing (so that the "second captain" problem is resolved), then there's no point in messing with the out of combat buffs, because all that will do is cause the group to either start at the bard, so the captain can buff then retrait, get a second captain (which can be difficult on some servers), or the captains won't slot the DPS traiting in a group setting.

    Because of how easy it would be to start at a bard, buff the group, and retrait, that makes messing with the out of combat buffs completely pointless - so those are off the table.

    Which brings us to the incombat buffs: Marks, Muster Courage, XBros, IDoME, and War-Cry.

    War-Cry being captain only is a meh change - it doesn't affect us, but it will annoy everyone else. So this is one candidate that can be limited.

    Looking at the Marks - in the context of DPS, the captain will be running Telling Mark more than the others, so that will inherently limit which mark is being used (excepting is with PvMP, which will likely be either Revealing or Telling, depending on the situation). Looking at the other capstone builds, HoH favors Revealing Mark, and LoM favors Noble Mark. However, the distinction is that HoH wants Revealing Mark to affect everyone else, while LoM wants the dethreat buff from Noble Mark to affect everyone else - so making Telling Mark captain only with LtC is going to cause an.... odd... behavior for only one traitline. So while it is an option, it would cause the marks to function differently in one trait.

    Looking at Muster Courage, most players likely do not know that it exists, so changing it will (most likely) go unnoticed - another candidate.

    XBros - unless we have the ability to toggle them without needing a friendly target, this a moot point.

    Then we come to the Legendary Traits. Oathbreaker's Shame, IDoME, and Fellowship Brother (which affects the XBros). To easily cripple the incombat captain buffing ability, we need to have enough Legendary traits that are more desireable for DPS to push these out of the Legendary Trait Slot.

    tl:dr -
    Out of combat buffs can be worked around, but it would annoy everyone involved, so let's not screw with them.

    While it is possible to modify War-Cry, the Marks, and Muster Courage - the best solution is for additional legendary traits to push FB, IDoME, and OS out of the legendary trait slots. Also, until the XBros become self-toggles, there's not much that can be done with them.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Mar 03 2013 at 05:02 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  24. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    This is how it used to be. Raskolnikov decided to decouple the buffing from the line, since he felt the buffing was something we should do equally as well in any trait line, and I and most other captains appear to agree with him.

    Captains can be good tankers. They just need to revamp the line to improve tanking, instead of tanking the tanking line and reversing it to a buffing line again.

    (If it ever becomes a buffing line again, you're essentially not going to be able to leave that trait line for group content.)
    I guess I just want a little less focus on threat generation and more buffing or survivability. Right now, there are three threat generation traits, two survivability traits, and one buffing trait. I would like these balanced out by changing one of the threat traits to a buffing trait.
    Check out my channel! [url]http://www.youtube.com/user/Aranthier?feature=watch[/url]

  25. #150
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Watertown, MA
    Posts
    2,910
    Have you actually tried Captain tanking lately, though? Survivability is not the issue it has. Threat is, in a big way.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

 

 
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