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Thread: Reeevaaaaaamp!

  1. #76
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    First of all welcome to the Captain RockX, I hope you will quickly figure out that the majority of Captains are very reasonable consumers of the class and you will find few people wishing for true paradigm shifting changes.
    With that in mind, I hope you take any complaints very seriously as some have been around for 6 years, and nothing would make us happier than finally seeing these issues resolved.
    So I hope, that finally we can have an actual dialogue with our Captain dev to find out where Turbine wants to go with the class, what the limits of our wishes should be.

    To that end, my first request, please please please, more communication, I don't think any of us need Orion-esque levels of posting, but a couple of posts a week in which you share your ideas, it would go such a long way.
    This community is full of good ideas but there is almost no direction to them at the moment.

    As you can see by the thread I started, keeping this down to 3 issues will be difficult, so I will just go with some broad strokes.

    1. DPS and levelling/soloing
    Now I post these together because quite frankly they have a lot in common. At the moment the Captain at higher levels is a more than decent solo class, it has some self healing, decent DPS thanks to blade-brother and more than enough survivability. However the way the acquisition of skills throughout the levels is laid out now most of the boosts to soloing come at a later level. If you go to the systems guys and ask them what level the majority of Captains are, I think you will find two peaks, one at max level, and one around 30. That is because most people become disillusioned with the Captain around this level. When other classes start to come into their own and acquire the stronger of their bread and butter skills the Captains DPS seems to stagnate at this point it creates a wall most people do not bother punching through, they feel it simply takes them too long to kill anything. The worst of it is, this wall has been there since the launch of the game, and has never been looked at. At the very least you should look at shifting skills around so that solo oriented skills and abilities are available at earlier levels.
    Of course this ties in with another overall problem that we have, that problem is low DPS and it was caused by one simple change to the game:

    Weapon...speed...normalisation

    Before the Weapon speed change our DPS came from big crits on slower attack speed weapons, halberds were the slowest weapons available which meshed perfectly with skill like Devastating blow with a large crit damage.
    But then weapon speed was changed and our skills weren't, and while other classes were buffed up with the notion of "everyone should have DPS for soloing" the Captain stayed behind and drifted to the bottom of the pack.
    Now RockX, if you tell us here and now that it is Turbine's intention that the Captain class, even when building for DPS, should be the lowest DPSer in the game, I and many with me will never mention it again.
    If that is not the case however, a solution (long overdue) must be found to bring us back to the middle of the pack. For gods sake, we should be able to hit harder than a guy in pyjamas wielding a lute!!!
    Many solutions are being suggested, personally I would like to see our big crits come back. When my Lm friend tells me his 3s CD ranged skill can crit for almost 10k and my hardest hitting skill with all buffs barely makes 7k (a rarity I might add) then i feel something is amiss, don't you?


    2. Banners and Heralds
    Early on in the game the devs saw that pets were quite squishy in group content, and when the pets died the Captain's buffs went away, and that was not exactly fair. Enter the Banners, a good solution at the time, but after many changes to the game's core mechanics and inflation on stats it is time for a thorough revision.
    The problem boils down to the fact that getting out a herald in most cases does not justify the loss of stats from unslotting the banners. The banner captain-only buffs, I might add, are not a luxury either.
    Now there are a lot of ways to tackle the problem, and again, a lot of good suggestions have gone before this post. I think more important is to look at the end result of any revamp.
    In my opinion a banner herald revamp should:
    1. Make the herald viable for group play
    2. Re-evaluate the value of the current banner/herald buffs and all associated traits.
    3. Revamp the way herald cosmetics are applied
    4. Make choice between different heralds significant

    3. Legacies
    Really not a lot too say beyond what has already been said, buffsticks and buff emblems are unfun is what it comes down to, if you read the suggestion thread you already read my ideas on redistributing the legacies in a fair way.

    So it's late and for now that's all I really needed to say, hope some of this resonates.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    Personally I don't see that as a problem. LIs shouldn't just have the best 6 legacies on them, you should have to make a choice for which legacies work best for you.

    I'll take hunter for example. Hunter has a surprising number of legacies on their main-hand weapon that are good but not required. Hunters pick the legacies that best suit their play-styles. They don't make multiple main-hands to have access to all of them because they just use the ones that are most relevant to their play-style.

    That's what I'd like to see on captain. Meaningful choices for LI legacies without feeling like I'm losing stuff by not using every single legacy available to the captain.
    Quoted for truth, as the kids say. I was going to say exactly this.

    The only other thing I'll add is that "you can have it all" is pretty much inevitably going to be followed by "you must have it all".
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erethal View Post
    Allow for specialized roles while retaining the option for a solid hybrid role.
    It was very worrying to read in the last Twitter dev chat that one goal for the class revamps is to “reduce the hybrid-homogenized nature of our classes.” The main reason that I love the captain is the ability to fill in multiple secondary roles within a group. It is a fun and challenging dynamic that makes the captain really stand out. While it would be really cool to have the option to specialize in one role, I greatly hope that with these major revisions and the new trait “trees,” it will remain possible to build for a hybrid role: diminished abilities of each role that become powerful when brought together. All I ask is that you keep this in mind as you do your magic on our amazing class!
    This, very much for me. This is also a reason why I hate talent trees, which basically disallow custom-hybridization and promote complete cookie-cutter builds, even for non-raid content. I don't have much hope for the direction the devs are going otherwise, though.

    Upgrading the heralds would be nice as well; I think the most common request is to have herald damage match our weapon damage type.

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  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    While the hot swaps are annoying there is one blessing to it. Unlike other classes we don't have to make any tough calls when it comes to making a legendary for healing or dps or tanking. Since our pool of legacies are split 4 ways instead of 3 we can offload all buffs onto separate items so that we can keep our main legendaries focused on our 3 tasks (healing, tanking, dps).

    Out of our pool of legacies there are 11 legacies dedicated to buffing. Meanwhile we can almost completely fill up on the legacies for any given task. So if we want to dps we can have nearly all available legacies for dps, healing, tanking. Now here is the blessing.... We can have nearly all relevant dps legacies AND 11 buff legacies simultaneously, same with healing and tanking.We don't have any tough calls to make here, we can have it all.

    If we lose those 11 buff legacies they will be replaced with nonbuff legacies. After which we lose the effective ability to run with 11 extra legacies. For better or worse those 11 legacies will get distributed along healing, tanking, and dps. Meaning we can no longer "have it all".

    Rockx if you go down this road stay in close contact with us. The hotswaping may be tedious but we could easily paint ourselves in a corner trying to fix it. Unless we can just drop legacies without replacing it we would need a good plan in place on how to go about making this happen. I'd rather "hotswap" than lose the ability to "have it all".

    TL/DR
    Hotswapping is annoying but getting rid of it MAY be a bigger annoyance. Keep in close touch with us when you go down this route.
    I was thinking along these same lines while reading all the suggestions to eliminate buffsticks and hot swaps. Just to be clear, there is a difference between a buffstick and a hot swap. While they may be the same item, the usage is different. The buffstick gets used for buffing prefight and gets put away. The hot swap is actively used during the fight

    I will agree that the buffstick legacies, 3 Tactics along with Motivating are annoying and could be rolled into the skills. The other buffing legacies such as To Arms and SoW which are commonly used on hotswaps pose a different issue.

    I agree they would be replaced with something else and will most likely be desirable. Our main weapons would not have room for these added legacies so these legacies would end up on a hot swap anyway. This may actually lead to MORE hot swapping during combat.
    Gungus - Captain

  5. #80
    Please don't ruin our red traitline by making it yet another DPS role with negligible support potential, or even lowered survivability, we have plenty of such classes already. I'm okay if you buff the damage a bit here and there, but really, Captains can kill things outside of instances just fine!
    If LtC becomes just another mediocre DPS role, 99% of all Captains will be asked to trait blue or go away...or how many overpower guards have you seen in (non-trivial) instances lately?

    I agree that our swap-item arsenal quickly becomes excessive, but I also agree that the buff potential should stay largely unaffected by traits. I don't want to lose the relatively big freedom to trait as I want just because people want to get rid of a buff-stick.

  6. #81
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    the captain is in a lovely place at the moment. I'm going to suggestion a new mechanism of "dancing" rotation just for interesting skill-to-skill play instead of random cooldown skills. the only major issue on captain currently is power useing sheild-brother and there tanking roll is poo. please make captain tank roll OP at regaining power to self. they shouldn't need to roll excessive fate along side rolling lodes of vit gear.

    many of these version might be the more potent versions in the trait line. but so many veriations of buffs to play around with I'm not going to make a trait tree list because I found it too easy getting idea with this mechanism.

    I highly doubt anyone could find a "1 rotation" win, simply because of the nurf put into place that non of these buffs stack with themselves or re-apply. a captain is forced to go different routes simply to keep most hots/buffs skills on while he debates to himself skill by skill "should I do more dps?". like a warden tanking...

    New mechanism -tactics:
    tactics is simply a 3 tier of skills. using a tier 1 unlocks tier 2 and locks tier 1. using a tier 2 unlocks a very strong teir 3. using a tier 3 unlocks tier 1 again. depending on your choice of tier 1 skill, your tier 2 change. depending on your tier 2

    tier 1 skills:

    ~battle shout - 25m range - applies buff "attack!"
    ~defencive strike - increases captain physical and tactical mit - applies buff "on guard"
    ~inspire - heal brother and captain depending on which brother is applied - applies buff "helping hand"

    tier 2 - "attack!" buff on:
    ~sure strike - cannot be avoided and never misses - applies buff "ATTACK!!"
    ~grave wound - applies slow (5s) and small threat over time (15s) - applies buff "aggressor"
    ~words of courage - 10m damage shout, group buff +5% melee damage for 10 secs - applies buff "inspiring"

    tier 2 - "on guard" buff on:

    ~sure strike - applies threat over time for 15s - applies buff "aggressor"
    ~grave wound - group buff
    excpet captain, -10% aggro from damage - applies buff
    "inspiring"
    ~words of courage - applies hot to captain and brother (depending on brother) - applies buff "empowering"

    Tier 2 - "helping hand" buff on:
    ~sure strike - (melee attack skill) increases group inc healing by +5% - applies buff "inspiring"
    ~grave wound - (melee attack skill) applies group-wide small hot for 10sec - applies buff "empowering"
    ~words of courage - everyone in 10m range is healed - applies buff "healing hands"

    Tier 3 buffs - "ATTACK!!" buff on:

    ~war-cry - 7m aoe shout. applies small dot (stun in dps traits too)
    ~valiant strike - big single target damage with even bigger crits.
    ~rallying cry - 25m range shout that damages and applies dot (20s)

    Tier 3 buffs - "aggressor" buff on:
    ~war-cry - large aoe aggro, 2s forced taught
    ~valiant strike - medium threat and buff +20% aggro generated for 30s
    ~rallying cry - 25m range shout that applies threat over time (20s)

    Tier 3 buffs - "inspiring" buff on:
    ~war-cry - decreases attack duration of group by 15% (30s)
    ~valiant strike - (blade of elendil). buff lasts 30s
    ~rallying cry - 10meter corruption removal skill

    Tier 3 buffs - "empowering" buff on:
    ~war-cry - applies group power-of-time (20s)
    ~valiant strike - (melee skill) applies to-arms for brother and captain (15s)
    ~rallying cry - applies strenth of will for brother and captain (15s)

    Tier 3 buffs - "healing hands" buff on:

    ~war-cry - applies group heal-over-time (20s)
    ~valiant strike - heals group amount damaged
    ~rallying cry - applies group buff +10% healing (30s)

    Analysis:
    many of these are very potent. I'm hopeing it'll take 3/5 seconds go go round the tactics from tier 1 to 3 then ready to hit a tier 1 again. so many of the hots and buffs shouldn't be able to apply twice or stack per captain or else the potency will go too extreme. the captain skill level will show massively when chooseing what rotation to do. applying buffs will lower dps, hitting healings might lower buffs, and for once the captain can semi-range while keeping some buffs up and heal/aggro

    you'll notice that choosing the offence to start off will stop you being able to heal. instead your teir 3 will either be dps/aggro/buffs. same with healing at beginning. you can only heal/buff in teir 3. have the middle skill (defencive strike) letting T2 choose between aggro/buffs. so no matter what you choose at the beginning you can apply the "inspireing" buffs.

    there are 9 skills for the toolbar here. these remove; brother skills (3), all dps skills(8), in combat buff skills(3). all healing skills(5?) and even noble mark imo. it would massively focus captains on learning "tactics" mechanism right to function while many other skills being more like cooldowns should be and not in skill to skill rotations.


  7. #82
    1. Song-brother Strength of Will turned into something that isn't redundant with its Inspire effect. Perhaps a buff to critical heal chance?

    2. Heralds. They are too squishy and don't do enough damage. In PvE they're whatever, but in PvP they are just a free defeat event for creeps. I often find difficulty soloing in the Moors because of this. My suggestion would be to roll Archer abilities into those of the Herald with two toggleable stances: one for melee mode and one for ranged mode. The only difference between the two stances would be the Herald's two main skills. Melee Herald would be used for Off-tanking while the Archer would aid with DPS and provide ranged slows. Both stances would allow the Herald to use Lend Courage and the Archer's evade buff.

    Also, I think the two defunct red traits that affect pet stats should be rolled into the pets and replaced. I would love to see a trait that makes Cutting Attack do more damage and another trait that makes Blade of Elendil remove 4 seconds from Shadow's Lament's cooldown just like the Orthanc Dagor set used to. That was a fantastic set bonus that really spiced up the red traited Captain's rotation and DPS, yet it was present during an expansion in which HoH traiting was the king for grouping. That's not the case now.

    3. Make Haste needs to provide slow immunity to the caster for its entire duration independent of any armor set. The 5-piece Perseverance bonus would still be useful when playing a group support/healing role since it would only then be able to help allies. I'm just tired of having to perform six gear swaps (two Pers pieces and swap LI, then back to two Command pieces for the finesse and my main weapon) just to remove a slow so that the BA I'm trying to kill can't slow kite me for 5 seconds. This would also give us a fighting chance against Spiders.
    Last edited by GeorgeBaggy; Feb 27 2013 at 06:21 AM.
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  8. #83
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    I don't think the cappy needs a revamp, the class is imho in a rather good place - we can't dps very well, yet we're not a dps class (we do have ridiculous mounted dmg tho), nor heal nor tank very well but we aren't any of those classes really (as it should be). There are some little things tho:

    1) Power management - I haven't tested a cappy on BR, I do not know how u10 will affect us. But power is a big problem both in raids and while soloing (bigger than it should).
    2) Heralds - the only reason I found for using them is when I soloed difficult landscape mobs and needed more heals than just Rallying Cry. There is a reason no cappy brings a herald to a raid... or pretty much anywhere. This is something that could be improved
    3) Equipment - atm best PvE armour is attainable only through PvP. I see no reason why both PvE and PvP armour couldn't have the same bonus if it's so good.

    I'd like to clarify more about our heal and dps role - cappies can both mainheal and maintank up to 6-man content without too much trouble so I don't think we need changes there, pretty much at all.
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  9. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    Broski, LoM never used to give full shield-brother effects to the fellowship. All who were not the Shield Bro received the "lesser" effects, same as Fellowship Brother works now. We didn't lose any buffing capabilities with RoI, instead keeping what we had while having more freedom to trait blues and reds while supporting.
    Ugh, like I said, it's been a long time. I don't recall exactly if LOM provided it or not, but I recall that not every captain was able to give fellowship wide call to arms. I know LOM was Moria story gated.

    Secondly, during at least Moria days, fellowship call to arms was much more powerful than it is now. I am quite certain it gave +10% damage to each fellow. I can't check right now, so off the top of my head again, it's nowhere near as potent now.

    So, that's basically what I meant, in a roundabout way.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ental View Post
    Secondly, during at least Moria days, fellowship call to arms was much more powerful than it is now. I am quite certain it gave +10% damage to each fellow. I can't check right now, so off the top of my head again, it's nowhere near as potent now.
    Blade Brother's To Arms with Fellowship-Brother equipped gives 10% to everyone but the Brother, who receives 25%.
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  11. #86
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    Since I see the Charisma thread being tossed about, let me explain again why I think it's a terrible idea that runs counter to the whole idea of the Captain class.

    Thematically, the Captain is defined by two things: defeat events and our banners. Anyone who has never listened to the old Casual Stroll to Mordor Captain Roundtable from 2010 needs to go do so. If nothing else, it'll get you mega pumped about playing Captains again.

    In the middle of the roundtable, one of the participants (Elborigorn of our old guide, I believe) says that he thinks our defeat events are misnamed. He thinks of them as victory events. We achieve something cool (getting a big crit, killing an enemy), and as a result we unlock the ability to do something cooler. We convert a small success into an even bigger success in a dramatic way. Succeeding unlocks the use of skills that help us succeed more.

    Yes, Charisma gives us a mechanical benefit for achieving a success, but the gameplay it creates lacks immediacy. If the current defeat event system is like winning a high-stakes poker hand, Charisma is like making contributions to a 401k. Sure, the latter might add up to just as much or even more money in the long run, but I think there's no question about which of the two is more fun.

    And, more than that, in this analogy, Charisma is saying, "Oh, you just won that big poker hand? How good for you! Now put it in your 401k and maybe take it back out when you retire." Yawn.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    If the current defeat event system is like winning a high-stakes poker hand, Charisma is like making contributions to a 401k.....

    "Oh, you just won that big poker hand? How good for you! Now put it in your 401k and maybe take it back out when you retire." Yawn.
    Our current system is more like winning a high-stakes power hand over and over and over again, yawn. There's no joy in winning that much.

    Hitting Rallying cry when your group is full of power and morale, and hitting war cry on top of another war cry is terribly boring and wasteful. Actually having a useful place to put that defeat response and put it to good use is dynamic rather than the yawn fest of just hitting defeat responses when they light up.

    There is nothing contrary to our defeat response in Charisma, it is a continuation of that premise. I have made my crit go to over 30%, which is far above what it was when captains were first built. My RC cooldown is 6seconds, far below what it once was when captains were first built. Rallying cries have changed tremendously over time and yet the mechanic remains the same.

    The fact is defeat responses have moved from an exciting rarity to overflowing, meanwhile the mechanic that runs them remains undeveloped.
    Charisma would help match that mechanic to fit our current times.

    Charisma takes those overflowing defeat responses and puts them somewhere dynamic and useful, making each defeat response exciting again rather than just another buff to maintain. We go from mindless defeat response dumping to an actual strategy on using those defeat responses. Mindless defeat response dumping is not respectful of our class definition, however development to match the changes over time is.
    Last edited by Armitas; Feb 27 2013 at 12:21 PM.
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  13. #88
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    Mechanical this, mechanical that, I'm not talking about mechanics. I'm talking about theme. "I'm going to ignore this event that popped up" is thematically bad. Yes, I would rather "waste" a Rallying Cry on over-healing than have something I put in my back pocket and forget about.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  14. #89
    1: Heralds. I know I'm in the minority, but I want banners done away with, and heralds to be the main self/group buff for captains. You could either customize your heralds, via weapon and armour to enhance your role, i.e. traited red, herald equipped red to be a dps role. Or, for example, traited red, herald outfitted blue to be a more hybrid role. Or any combination there in.
    I also think this could help clear up some of the gear decisions being pigeon holed via almost necessary skill enhancers on certain types of gear, i.e. rallying cry cd as a set bonus. This could allow gear and set bonuses to give bonuses like +stat or +phys. mastery and leave say to arms cd on a herald sword.

    2. Captain shield. I would love to see a shield that is in between a light and heavy shield, a medium shield if you will, that has a bit more defensive capability while still enhancing the captain's hybrid type role. Even if this shield is only equipable with the LoM capstone traited.

    3. My one pet peeve. I can't stand the block with a 2h weapon. We have a stat called parry. I understand that a (sizeable?) group of captains refuse to play with anything but a halberd, but seriously, why not call it parry? My only guess is that block is a much more powerful stat than parry, but maybe just increase the rating for parry while traited LoM. Or just carry a shield.
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  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Mechanical this, mechanical that, I'm not talking about mechanics. I'm talking about theme. "I'm going to ignore this event that popped up" is thematically bad. Yes, I would rather "waste" a Rallying Cry on over-healing than have something I put in my back pocket and forget about.
    You're not ignoring it, you're buffing your entire group with it immediately. It is an additional defeat response, one that is useful always.

    Each "victory" brings your group to a scalable and increasing level of inspiration rather than the current flat level of inspiration. Any real group would be inspired more and more with each victory, going from despair to hope progressively. This is not happening in our current system. Several victories are wasted, and others are used to prevent from sliding further into despair. Charisma, through every small victory, moves the slider from despair to hope as the battle progresses. This is what I mean by the captain having a dynamic effect on the group rather than a static one.
    Last edited by Armitas; Feb 27 2013 at 01:46 PM.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx3d View Post
    Please don't ruin our red traitline by making it yet another DPS role with negligible support potential, or even lowered survivability, we have plenty of such classes already. I'm okay if you buff the damage a bit here and there, but really, Captains can kill things outside of instances just fine!
    If LtC becomes just another mediocre DPS role, 99% of all Captains will be asked to trait blue or go away...or how many overpower guards have you seen in (non-trivial) instances lately?
    Couldn't agree more!
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  17. #92
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    I've said 1 thing I want in first reply. Here's 2 others.

    2. More threat to the tanking Captain, preferably in the form of a moderately sized threat leech.

    That would help with both single-target and AoE threat. While AoE threat is hurting the most, from my observations in raid situations where DPS skyrockets due to buffs and debuffs Captain single target threat isn't really good enough either. Like the strong DPSers have to throttle their damage a little when Arg tries to off-tank Durgoth in Dragon Wing (main tank kites his clones), so I'm really doing a disservice to my friends when I chose to tank on Arg instead of my Warden Rechart.

    What my single target does seem to be good enough for is fights where DPS are focused up on something else for a time. Athgrat for example: champs burn adds, and in fact Athgrat takes little aoe damage in that time. Plus that's a 3man so there's a paucity of damage increasing buffs and debuffs.

    Oh, and to curtail anything about "l2p Argendauss", getting threat on an LoM Captain is extremely simple. Noble-mark is fire-and-forget. Then you got threatening shout on a 10s CD and you chain GW after CA. Fill in the gaps with doing as much damage as you can. Real simple. Only two things I could do for threat are these: replace sword with Halberd for what's likely just auto-attack threat, and start dropping vit for might and more damage. Both of those lessen my already inferior survivability. Screw that.

    So a threat leech, how to implement? Like I said going through the threat-building motions while Captanking is really simple--so simple sometimes I wonder if we deserve threat because of that--so maybe make it something skill-based, or if that's too hard then luck-based. Maybe on Defensive Strike or Sure Strike or both if they crit, making us gear kinda like litany-spam guards. It'd have to be a doozy of a leech though to make a crit-opened leech otherwise a 4-times-a-minute-for-sure leech on like BoE or Battle-Shout or, hell, Inspire would be more effective. A 25m threat leech like a warden would be appreciated, probably a 10m one like a guard would be more appropriate though (unless you put it on Inspire).


    3. Herald revamp

    Heralds suck, generally. I used them in ToO T2 trash pulls sometimes to make my 3-GC set bonus work a little better. Sometimes I use them solo. But they need some help, and I say that based on hardly ever seeing heralds put in play at endgame.

    I'd like to see them brought back into good favor as if they were Loremaster pets. But I want us to keep banners too, so heres an idea I probably stole off an earlier thread:

    Keep our banners, keep our banner items and their stats. Do away with armaments as equip items and make them consumables that grant the skill to summon a particular type of herald, like for an LM. Give our heralds different buffs than that of the banners. Stuff like crit + finesse, crit D + parry, and +X% OGH are some ideas for new herald banners. Let us use both heralds and banners. This will

    -Revive a rarely used aspect of the Captain
    -Increase our buffing capacity by a little bit.
    -Increase our damage by a little bit (BTW herald damage sucks and so does LM pet damage, maybe little bump is in order?)
    -Look good to your bosses
    -Piss pet-haters off. Sorry, y'all can adapt, I have no sympathy because heralds aren't a difficult mechanic.
    -Buff solo and leveling captains, which has been called for several times in this thread. Brother skill + banner stats.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000363f98/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  18. #93
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
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    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    2. More threat to the tanking Captain, preferably in the form of a moderately sized threat leech.
    I definitely agree with Omen on this. AoE threat is obviously hurting a lot more than single-target, but they could both use a bit of work. If you have a choice between increasing our AoE threat generation or giving us a threat leech or threat copy, I'll take the leech or copy any day, since that may not help out with generating AoE threat specifically but it'd help with keeping aggro in pretty much any situation. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to both more threat generation and a leech (and/or copy) at the same time!
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  19. #94
    And interesting idea that I think hasn't been brought up in this thread yet was to rework heralds by integrating them with the skirmish soldier system.

    Whether this is the way to go or not, it seems there's a consensus that heralds are quite underwhelming and need help.
    "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

  20. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Bezmer View Post
    And interesting idea that I think hasn't been brought up in this thread yet was to rework heralds by integrating them with the skirmish soldier system.

    Whether this is the way to go or not, it seems there's a consensus that heralds are quite underwhelming and need help.
    My skirmish soldier is more powerful, but my herald is so much smarter. Maybe the skills and stats of a soldier with the pathing AI of a herald?

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Evenprimes View Post
    My skirmish soldier is more powerful, but my herald is so much smarter. Maybe the skills and stats of a soldier with the pathing AI of a herald?
    Yes definitely, both pets and soldiers stand to gain. My soldier is an absolute nincompoop.

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  22. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    7,600
    Weighing in on the mechanic thing:
    Charisma is the only mechanic I've seen suggested that seems like it fits with what the class does - but I really don't think the problem with the class IS the mechanics, we have a bunch and they all work rather well.

    Rather, our biggest problem are the MAGNITUDE at which our skills work and the cluster that is our legacies. I really don't want an Orion Mini 2.0 style change to the class, because most of what it has works fairly well. I just want the capstone builds buffed up a bit so they become viable alternative to the primary classes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer View Post
    So a threat leech, how to implement? Like I said going through the threat-building motions while Captanking is really simple--so simple sometimes I wonder if we deserve threat because of that--so maybe make it something skill-based, or if that's too hard then luck-based. Maybe on Defensive Strike or Sure Strike or both if they crit, making us gear kinda like litany-spam guards. It'd have to be a doozy of a leech though to make a crit-opened leech otherwise a 4-times-a-minute-for-sure leech on like BoE or Battle-Shout or, hell, Inspire would be more effective. A 25m threat leech like a warden would be appreciated, probably a 10m one like a guard would be more appropriate though (unless you put it on Inspire).
    We could have a small threat leech on every VS and Inspire HoT pulse - however, too big of a threat leech, and we're going to be able to tank by spamming two skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evenprimes View Post
    My skirmish soldier is more powerful, but my herald is so much smarter. Maybe the skills and stats of a soldier with the pathing AI of a herald?
    From what I've seen, it's like the skirmish soldiers are either permanently in the guard or aggressive AI state - which would explain them doing rather dumb stuff. If we retain our herald bar, I don't see it being an issue.

    What I would like is greater freedom in defining what the herald does - because the players will know far better than the devs will (like with the skirmish system), so we should have enough flexibility to do something like:

    DPS Herald of War
    Healing Herald of Hope
    Tanking Herald of Hope
    PvMP Archer
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Feb 27 2013 at 02:47 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    50

    Make Routing Cry A Distributed Damage Skill

    Some interesting ideas on here led to me having a brain wave concerning Routing Cry. I think most would agree that it could use a damage boost. This would not be a bad thing, but the skill would remain a boring one and relatively useless against single targets - I'm thinking boss fights in particular here. AOE skills are most useful when there are multiple targets. In many situations we already don't have enough defeat skills - so it makes no sense for one to be nerfed on all important boss fights.

    The solution? Something different!

    Make Routing Cry a distributed damage AOE skill (base damage still needs about a 30% increase though to keep it relevant).

    This would make our defeat event skill (which is supposed to be something special) useful in situations where there are lots of mobs or just one. NPCs already have this mechanic, so it strikes me that it wouldn't have to be designed from the bottom up.
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  24. #99
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    362
    Hey mr. dev,
    I believe captain class is in good position at the moment but it always can be better!


    1. For healing
    I would like to see WoC HoTs stacking. Nothing else.

    2. For buffing (god it's our favourite thing to do!)
    Maybe one more "on defeat" skill?
    For example Skill with no cooldown, which takes "on defeat" response to activate, each use of skill buffs group DPS (and maybe outgoing healing/incoming damage? Could be dependant on X-brother active) by 1% for each use, bonus caps on let's say 10-15% and lasts 60s after each use (using skill again would increase buff bonus and refresh duration).

    3. Legendary traits

    Pleaaaaase re-scale IDoME properly, it's sad to see trait with potential to go to hell, (I am gonna get crucified by other captains but maybe add raw mastery/mits/crit/icpr/morale/power instead of stats? Would solve few problems I guess).

    I hope it will help You to make our class perfect

    ~Ret

  25. #100

    Solo Stance Suggestion

    Could we not have a new solo stance/legendary trait (call it Strength of Beren or something),
    that when activated dispells any pets and dispells any buffs given to other party members (if any).
    In return, the skill/stance would give the captain:
    1. All three types of captain buffs (attack,parry,focus as modified by your LIs legacies) simultaneously.
    [I agree focus needs to be changed to something better - I'm thinking finesse+crit+crit defense]
    2. All three brother stances (Shield/Sword/Song) simultaneously
    3. Strength of Will and To-Arms effects (modified by your LIs legacies) so long as the skill/stance is active.

    Perhaps while the traiting is active the Make Haste skills provide stun immunity for the duration of its effect.

    Any suggestions on the balancing of this or perhaps it is still too little? Perhaps make defeat events only effect the Captain?

 

 
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