Reeevaaaaaamp!

[spikethe3rd]

I would like Improved Tactics skill. It would add a small number of Crit Defence to, Crit, Parry, and ICPR buffs we already have. But it would scale to level and not be able to be tampered with with a legacy. Otherwise I have no complaints about the Captain class.

[Almagnus1]

With these recent Fate changes I want to say I think you and the other developers seem to be on track to effectively end the existence of the support role. By making power so easily managed on an individual basis, you have effectively ended any real need for "power support" in groups, and ultimately that harms the usefulness of Captains and Loremasters. It also removes a layer of strategic depth your gameplay used (emphasis on used) to have.

I think what they did was cut out a lot of the power management stuff, yet everything else support was retained.

If all we did for support was power management, then the entire class deserves to be removed from LotRO.

[Nascephor]

1-Now for Wrath is a mandatory trait. No captain build is functional without NfW. This is plainly stupid. A trait should be an optional part of a strategy, not a mandatory step in order for the strategy to work.
Solution: Make Rallying Cry restore some morale and power on all builds, and the trait NfW would restore a bigger amount of
morale when slotted. The solution is similar to what was done with Valiant Strike.

2-The entire Leader of Men line needs a revamp in order to become usable. The traits do not complement each other and the line fails as a tanking stance: it does not generate enough treat to keep agroo, nor it adds resistances/mitigations/avoidances to increase a captains toughness when tanking. Any or all of the following measures should be considered to make tanking possible with a Captain:
-Legendary bonus "you can block with a 2 hander"becomes "you can block with a 2 hander + if you are using a shield your blocking rate increases 5% and your attacks generate greater treat. Why? because there are no 1-handers that generated increased treat"to replace the treat lost by giving up the Halberd. Plus, most tanking captains tank with Hands of Healing not leader of men. In order to LoM become a true alternative , there must be some added advantage when going 5 yellows. Truth is no sane captain would block with a 2 hander after our new gold shield adds soo much Might and outgoing healing rate. If a captain has the legendary shield, the captain will never again tank with a 2 hander, making Leader of Men even more obsolete.
-Forced attack from Improved Grave Wound increases to the entire duration of the skill if bleeding is applied.
-Grave wound duration legacy goes from +5 to +10s, making bleeds from cutting attack and grave wound stack more evenly.
-Fighting withdraw range increases to 25m, it retains the (secret?) ability to break enemy's stealth but reverses entirely the function- now instead of doing less treat, it leeches all treat generated by the fellowship on the target towards the captain. this skill is never used, Captains do not need less treat generation, they need more treat, especially when tanking. This change to fighting withdraw would give captains a treat leech and at the same time make an obsolete and never used skill something revolutionary on the tanking abilities of captains.

3-Heralds and Banners. Heralds ( and to a lesser degree banners) become less and less useful as levels goes up. By the time a Captain reaches level cap Heralds are nuisance, only used in specific solo situations by captains without Coldfells banner. Victory banner is a waste of inventory slot.
Solution: Make heralds do same damage type as captains main weapon; increase base damage and base armour from heralds. Traits loyalty and Precise ally should make heralds effective tools that compensate for the loss of morale and mastery of the banners. Heralds and banners benefits should level up as % of masteries or total ICPR/ICMR. Examples: War banner now increases mgt and agi for 1% every 5 levls of banner /herald. Combining banners traits with legedary capstones could also solve major issues with banners being underwhelming right now. make banner of war give more damage output when going 5 red, victoty banner give out massive ICPR when going 5y and hope banner give more ICMR when going 5b.

[TinDragon]

Truth is no sane captain would block with a 2 hander after our new gold shield adds soo much Might and outgoing healing rate.

I have two tank setups: 2H and sword & shield. In neither setup do I use the gold shield. It's a really good healing shield, but there are better ones for tanking purposes.

[dietlbomb]

-Legendary bonus "you can block with a 2 hander"becomes "you can block with a 2 hander + if you are using a shield your blocking rate increases 5% and your attacks generate greater treat. Why? because there are no 1-handers that generated increased treat"to replace the treat lost by giving up the Halberd. Plus, most tanking captains tank with Hands of Healing not leader of men. In order to LoM become a true alternative , there must be some added advantage when going 5 yellows. Truth is no sane captain would block with a 2 hander after our new gold shield adds soo much Might and outgoing healing rate. If a captain has the legendary shield, the captain will never again tank with a 2 hander, making Leader of Men even more obsolete.

Darn straight! Captains should be able to tank with shields.

And this:

should never happen.

[Almagnus1]

Darn straight! Captains should be able to tank with shields.

All of the other tank classes in the game get some sort of item to stick in the off hand slot BY DESIGN. Guards and wards get shields, champs have a second weapon.... we get nothing.

I like that we are designed to tank with a 2H weapon. However, until we can better control the stats built into a 2H weapon, we need an offhand item to compensate for the complete and total randomness of that part of the LI system - or we are going to be (yet another) sword and board tanking class.

I want uniqueness, I want to tank in a way that screams captain.

[Brewel120]

Ok I have refined what I want with the revamp of a captain. What I want is that when a group is looking for tank or healer and I send a tell to the leader of the fellow to fill the position, I don't want to be told that no I can't come because they need a real tank/healer...

[Nascephor]

I like that we are designed to tank with a 2H weapon.
I want uniqueness, I want to tank in a way that screams captain.

I stand corrected. You are right.

My suggestion to make leader of man capstone increase blocking when using a shield takes uniqueness from the captain tanking style.

Instead how about make the capstone eliminate any benefit the enemy receives from finesse os class skills, making P/B/E ratings from a captain always apply when going 5Y.

This way captains maintain the uniqueness of tanking with a 2 hander plus we gain a little bit of avoidances. Certainly not enough to makes us better tanks than guardians or wardens, but enough to compensate for the absolute lack of tanking buffs we suffer now. Plus it would be fun to make shadow stanced stalkers fear captains in PvP, as captains today are the most tender meal in the moors.

[furtim]

I want uniqueness, I want to tank in a way that screams captain.

I completely agree. I love how tanking with a 2H feels. Shields are fine, and I don't begrudge anybody who wants to use them on their Captain, whether for tanking or for anything else, but they shouldn't be mandatory. I don't want to be forced into using a shield for tanking.

(And it works out just fine as it is. I've always used a greatsword in my tank builds, and squishiness has never been why I've failed as a tank.)

[Graycient]

Hey RockX, glad to see someone stepping up. You won't regret it We're happy to have ya.



1. Words of Courage - I'd love to see the Morale cost on this skill removed, and Words of Courage HoT stack up to 3 times.

2. Pets - I'd like pets to come back into style. Supply an amazing item in the Ettenmoors and for Crafted that gives a very good boost to its armour, health and mitigation. Paper armoured pets do us NO good. They need to be wearing heavy armour.

3. Buffs - Perhaps they could be incorporated somehow into trait-lines or the new trait-tree system. Remove them from legendary items. I'm really tired of leveling 2-3 Buffsticks after each expansion, as I already have 3-5 LI's on this toon alone to manage.



Anything other than that really doesn't bug me that much at this current moment. Thanks for stopping by the Captain forums!

[Almagnus1]

And starting from a copy and paste from http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Captain_Skills, the list of skills, and my thoughts on them.....
(Upgrades have been removed, and each skill refers to it's fully upgraded version)

Bolster the Weakened
Words of Courage Staple healing skill and one of the few reasons why captain healers are really good in a high mobility fight. Morale cost seems like an unecessary penalty.
Muster Courage Used most frequently for the self heal and fear wiping. Truthfully, I don't notice the buff, so wouldn't miss it if it was gone.
Escape from Darkness In combat rez, one of the defining abilities of our class.
Inspire I like that it heals in Blade and Shield Brother. Power restoration needs to be reevaluated after the fate changes.
In Harm's Way Another defining ability of the class
Inspiriting Call The much needed OOC rez, we should receive this when the LM, RK, and Mini get theirs, not at 40.
Valiant Strike A class defining heal, clearly demonstrating that we are a hybrid by doing both DPS and healing at the same time.

Direct Your Allies
Rallying Cry Class defining heal
War-cry One of the buffs that we keep up 24/7 because it does so much for the fellow's DPS.
Make Haste Very useful mobilzation buff
Routing Cry DPS is increased thanks to the might changes in RoI, and a key tanking skill thanks to it's AE forced taunt. I like the idea of making this a distributed damage skill
Noble Mark Class Defining tanking skill
Telling Mark Class Defining DPS buff
Revealing Mark Class Defining Healing buff
Cry of Vengeance Instant battle rez. It's base version needs to restore more morale so it's not so worthless without Blood of Numenor

Lead by Example
Battle-shout Used to initiate our skill chane, and one of the skills that make us extremely noisy on the battle field
Defensive Strike Key tanking skill, formerly used to help with power issues in tanking (thank you Eg >=(
Sure Strike Good offensive skill, but rather bland. I like the mechanic to help accelerate Battle Shout, but it's could just as easily be rolled into Defensive Strike and the skill eliminated.
Devastating Blow A good alternative to PA... a possibility to merge it and PA is to make the skill a distributed damage skill with an optional damage bonus for a single target.
Cutting Attack I like that it's a bleed, I like that it slows.
Pressing Attack See Devastating Blow
Last Stand This skill is pretty awesome when combo'd with IHW, but on it's own, it's lacking. If you need this when tanking, you're probably already screwed to begin with. It's useful in PvMP against greener opponents, but completely useless against the vets. This skill could use an upgrade.
Threatening Shout Staple tanking skill.
Blade of Elendil Really good finisher for our skill chain. However, for a corruption removal, it's pretty meh.
Grave Wound Good forced taunt in LoM, but Aggressive Stance is a penalty for going after the GW bleed, and that mechanic needs to be re-evaluated.
Kick 30 second Interrupt is less than useful, especially when the other tanking classes have a 15 second interrupt. The CJ mechanic needs to go jump in Mount Doom so the cooldown can be dropped to 15 seconds.
Shadow's Lament I like that it's a strong DPS skill, I do not, however, like that it always has threat on it, and I would really like the threat aspect to be peeled off and reactivated with one of the LoM traits, which would fix the threat spiking problems with LtC.

Prepare for Battle
Tactic: On Guard The tactics are another set of class defining skills, On Guard (AKA Parry) is one of the two that is used quite a bit.
Heralds This has been covered enough in this thread....
War Herald/Banner Buff The banner buffs are another set of buffs that the class is known for. IMO, the buffs need a rethink, as they haven't aged all that well.... War Buff should be converted to a DPS oriented buff that complements the LtC traitline.
Motivating Speech One of the class defining abilities. This skill needs to be raid wide. I hate the "pass the captain" buffing aspect, since all it does is eat up time.
Shield-brother Taking all of it's aspects into consideration, this does a really good job at making the captain tank viable. The only thing it lacks is a power restore on Inspire.
Song-brother This skill needs to unquestionably put out more healing than Shield Brother can dream of, and right now, Shield Brother is still to close. With Inspire as it is, Strength of Will is laregely worthless
Blade-brother It's solid as is, and the default of the X-Bros. The others should be brought up to Blade Bro's power level, and not have Blade Brother nerfed.
Hope Herald/Banner Buff Another buff that sees **ALOT** of usage. It could use some tweaking to better support the HoH traitline.
Tactic: Relentless Attack The one buff that **EVERYONE**, their cat, dog, bear, horse, squirrel, bog lurker, bird, and ferret wants. All of the tactic buffs need to be modal: If they aren't targeted, it's raid wide. If it is targeted, it's single target only.
Vicotry Herald/Banner Buff While I use this while tanking (primarily due to lack of focus on working in fate for the tank build), I don't use this banner all that often. It should be converted to a buff that complements the tanking line without stepping on the Coldfell's Banner's toes.
Coldfells Banner This should remain as it is now: an extremely good incentive to hit R8, and also the best banner for the 'Moors.
Tactic: Focus The mark of shame. Fix or delete.
Command Respect I like this emote, it's an amusing add on to the class =)
To Arms A class defining buff. One aspect of the brother skills that is remarkably good. While I would like this morphed to something that requires more thought than "KEEP IT ON COOLDOWN", it works as is.
Withdraw This is a devisive skill. I tend to use it more than some of the other captains because I tend to do a lot of PUGing (and some tanks that I have been with are **BAD** at holding agro), but overall, the class doesn't produce enough DPS that it's warranted for frequent usage. Also, it's one of the worst skills for the LoM line because it goes from being meh to completely counterproductive.
Strength of Will This skill needs to be rolled into the X-Bro skill, because it has an almost 100% uptime as is. It also creates incentive for swap emblems, which (like the buff sticks) need to go away.
Time of Need I use it as a panic button (like I need an RC RIGHT NOW), others spam it for more defeat responses across the fight. I don't like that it also another strong incentive for a swap emblem.
Archer If I'm expected to sacrifice my banner buff for this summon, it had better do enough DPS to justify that decision. Currently, it does not.

Passive Skills
Most of this (crit defence included) is stuff that makes us, well, us. Let's not dwell on the obvious....

Armour Proficiencies
Shields Since I'm going over the rest, might as well touch on this too.... Until the random stats built into the 2H's can be dealt with, a shield will continue to provide the single best mastery boost for healing that we could possibly muster. As far as tanking goes, S&B should remain a viable option, but done such that it's a threat/survivability trade. DPS wise, 2H wins over 1H.

I'm all for having a new type of shield (buckler) that acts as a stat boost for us.

[Almagnus1]

And starting from the traits listed at http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Captain_Traits

Leader of Men
There's enough missing tools with tanking (agro copy, agro swap, threat leech) and issufficient amount of threat production that the traits seem almost inefficient. With what I have observed with gearing, it's not survivability that's our problem because our gear pool is a superset of champ and guard gear, so we have access to the needed tanking gear thanks to RockX's previous efforts.

What I learned from tanking in other MMOs, forced taunts are necessary to be used on MY terms, not required to maintain things like Agressive Stance or AE agro.

The other issue that's painfully obvious with this traitline is that we need to have our power costs dealt with. This was bad before U10.2, right now, it's almost crippling.
Alert Guard A survivability trait, I'm not sure if it's something that's absolutely needed for tanking. If it focused more on the survivability aspect of tanking, I'd definitely look at it much more favorability.
Echoing Shout It's a needed threat boost, however, it feels like this should be part of Intimidation.
Improved Routing Cry This gives us a much needed tool for tanking. This is an example of what the LoM traits should do.
Captain's Victory I loathe the banner tratis because all of them don't do anything to actively help the captain perform what the traitline is aimed at, but rather they take up a valuable trait slot for a buff that most won't notice.
Defiance Useful for the fights where IHW + LS is needed and the captain must ensure they survive it. I also like this for the 'Moors to annoy creeps =)
Composure I don't really use this because I tend not to use ToN all that much, however, there are other captains that swear by this trait. It's a useful tool, but not all that helpful towards tanking.
Intimidation A must have tanking trait because it effectively cranks up the threat production.
Tactical Prowess Useful for extending To Arms. That said, I would rather see this trait rolled into the skill and another trait take it's place.
Capstone I like how this feels like it's a major component for tanking. It almost feels like this should have a power cost reduction on it.
Set Bonuses

• 2 Equipped The CJ ability for kick needs to be removed so Kick can be improved, and the Mark cooldown should really be part of the Marks themselves. Altering this so that Aggressive stance only falls off when out of combat (which would free up Grave Wound to be used much more strategically) would go miles towards helping out the class.
• 3 Equipped I'm on the fence with this one. It's good for threat production, but at the same time it feels lacking because of the overall performance of a LoM tank.
• 4 Equipped This also gives us another must have tool for tanking, and a solid 4 trait bonus.

Hands of Healing
Of all the traitlines, HoH is the one that needs the least amount of work because it actually does what it's intended to do.
Fear no Darkness Solid trait for improving WoC. Only improvement is allowing WoC to stack with itself.
Strong Voice We did the math on this a while back, and it's the only trait in HoH that is outright bad and needs to be replaced.
Blood of Númenor A solid trait, don't screw with it.
Captain's Hope Like what I said about Captain's Victory, I also don't like this trait because I feel it just doesn't add enough healing power (the ICMR bonus isn't that much compared to what we can output). While it does add a fair amount of morale to the banner, the hope bonus is essentially pointless because of hope tokens. So it boils down to additional morale, and looking at that, versus taking something that will actively help me heal, I'd take another trait - which is why I think this is another good candidate for another trait.
Now for Wrath Until this trait is no longer mandatory, both LtC and LoM will suffer for it. The impression I've gotten from the fate changes is that power management is heading the direction of being far more personal than it has been previously, giving the LM a role they have traditionally had back.
Deeds Before Words Another strong trait for Inpsire
Relentless Optimism Our most powerful healing trait, especially when you start ramping up the crit rating. If anything needed to be gated behind other traits, this trait is it.
Strength from Within Another solid trait that gets used for **A LOT** of things.
Capstone I like what the trait does, especially with how much it improves VS. It's only weakness is Song Brother.
Set Bonuses

• 2 Equipped I have written about this before, so I'll bring it up again.... One of the problems with LtC and DPS is how much healing LtC can output because of this set bonus when combined with a healing emblem and Relentless Optimism. That said, one possibly solution to correct this (which will better allow LtC to output more DPS) is removing the Vocal Skills Healing and Melee Skills healing legacies, scraping the existing HoH 2 and 4 set bonuses, and then creating a scaling +healing of X * 5% skills healing, where X is the number of HoH traits slotted.
• 3 Equipped It's a power cost reduction, while useful, may need to be reevaluated given the fate changes.
• 4 Equipped Like what I said with the 2 Set bonus, and taking a note from the LtC traitline.... a +5% Healing Critical chance to replace the former bonus.

Lead the Charge
Based on what the traits largely do, this traitline does one thing well (Defeat Response procing) and another not so well (DPS). Given the DPS ability of every other Freep class, it's unacceptable that LtC is as bad at DPS as it is.

The key problems with LtC lie in the lack of DPS and the general state of the herald. Overall, the traitline does what it needs to do, but the magnitude is what's off. One of the missing traits is a DPS mirror of Relentless Optimism.
Renewed Voice A solid good starter trait, and a good match for almost any build.
Turn of the Tide I like the stun for it, but I'm on the fence if that should be rolled into the base skill, or remain as it.
Captain's Valour See Captain's Victory. It doesn't do enough, and it doesn't add that much to combat.
Expert Attacks A solid trait.
Precise Ally and Loyalty Because the herald/archer is so bad, these traits are also bad. If the herald/archer is improved, these traits will become better.
Battle-master Good idea, bonus needs to be bigger.
Adherent of Elendil I like the trait, but it almost feels like the legacy should be merged into this trait so it's not quite so flat.
Capstone Like what I said about the herald traits, the herald aspect of here falls flat because of the state of the herald. One missing ability is combat summoning AND a summoning induction decrease.

Otherwise, this trait is mechanically sound, but it doesn't do enough magnitude wise.
Set Bonuses

• 2 Equipped The crit multiplier isn't big enough. This should be increased. Perhaps a scaling crit multiplier?
• 3 Equipped Like I said with the HoH power cost reduction, this may need to be reevaluated.
• 4 Equipped It's a solid bonus, don't screw with it.

[b]Legendary Traits
I like the mix of legendary traits, however, there needs to be two traits that are pretty clear for the roles, with FB and IDoME being the default for a support build. What this boils down to is what each trait can do for the captain in a given build.
Fellowship-brother One of the best of the legendaries, it needs competition.
Oathbreaker's Shame I like this for the DPS aspects, however, given the state of the captain threat, this is a risky trait to run while tanking. If this provided a strong enough captain DPS boost, it would be good competition for FB and IDoME
Shield of the Dúnedain SotD needs to have all targeting restrictions removed, so it can be targeted on the captain, which would greatly improve the trait for tanking and PvMP. It also needs to remain as is, and NOT become a bubble - if we have to spend a legendary trait for it, it should be legendary.
In Defence of Middle-earth It's far past due for this trait to be converted to ratings, and no longer have stats on it. This would help remove the annoying asymetry introduced with the last update. Otherwise, it's good as is.

[Jeremi]

If all we did for support was power management, then the entire class deserves to be removed from LotRO.

You are putting words in my mouth though, and and responding to me as if I claimed something I never did. I never said all we did for support was power management. It was however an element of what we did, and added to our class. Same can be said of the loremaster. Now that part of both classes has been rendered basically insignificant, as well as a slew of other traits, abilities, and legacies.

[Finnway]

You are putting words in my mouth though, and and responding to me as if I claimed something I never did. I never said all we did for support was power management. It was however an element of what we did, and added to our class. Same can be said of the loremaster. Now that part of both classes has been rendered basically insignificant, as well as a slew of other traits, abilities, and legacies.

It is true, however, that power management is not a core element of our class. There are so many other interesting core elements that are much more exciting. Almanus1 is right to say that if refining power breaks our class we might as well be cut from the game.

[Almagnus1]

And the third one.... covering the legacies listed at [urlhttp://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Captain_Legendary_Legacies[/url]

The biggest problem facing the legacies is their inability to provide us with several distinct ways to construct an LI that fits in the tanking, DPS, healing, or support role - which leads virtually all the captain LIs to be extremely homogenized. This becomes problematic with the emblems because they all end up being variations of a healing emblem, which in turn, makes LtC suffer because of how much healing it can produce. The healing in LtC is one of the big things sited by players of other classes as to why we can't produce the DPS that is so badly needed by LtC.

The other side of the coin, if too many of the healing legacies are shot, it will cripple the support builds, because they will lose too much healing ability in a 4R/3B, or 4B/3R build. That is why great care needs to be exercised when working with the legacies, and the captain community feedback is crucial to ensure we don't lose a role.

Main Hand
Majors
To Arms Duration One of the legacies that is effectively mandatory for captains - there isn't a situation where I wouldn't want this legacy, and want it maxed. This is a good legacy to be rolled into the base skill.
Kick Cooldown While I like it, many captains do not - the biggest flaw is the inability to have a 15 second interrupt.
Telling Mark Damage It's a solid legacy, necessary for raiding, however, it's not all that useful as a main healer (Revealing Mark is better), and goes unused while tanking (Noble Mark is better).
Devastating Blow Critical Rating While I don't have this on my primary LI it's still a good legacy.
Pressing Attack Critical Rating Same as the DB Crit legacy.
Melee Skill Power Cost An interesting option that is (probably) diminished by the fate changes.
Maximum Targets for Pressing Attack A very useful legacy, and one that is still good with a zero point investment.
Morale from Motivating Speech A buff stick legacy - buff sticks need to go die in a fire, please roll this into the base skill.

Minors
Cry Power Cost Same thoughts as the Melee Skills Power Costs.
Tactics: On Guard Parry Rating Buff A buff stick legacy - buff sticks need to go die in a fire, please roll this into the base skill.
Tactics: Relentless Attack Critical Rating Buff A buff stick legacy - buff sticks need to go die in a fire, please roll this into the base skill.
Routing Cry Damage Because of the other majors, I haven't used this legacy. I could see it being useful, there's just too much other stuff that feels mandatory.
Blade of Elendil Damage As stated above, either the legacy needs to be merged into the trait, or the trait merged into the legacy.... it seems odd that we have two ways to improve the skil.
Cutting Attack Bleed Damage A solid DPS legacy.
Defensive Strike Armour Buff A solid tanking legacy.
Make Haste Duration A solid PvMP legacy.
Battle States and Response Duration An intersting legacy, and one that I'm currently playing around with on a healing 1H sword. The utility it provides is interesting.

Emblems
Majors
Tactics: Focus in-Combat Power Regen Buff The mark of shame needs no shameful legacy.
Rallying Cry Healing One of the keys to the Healing Emblem, however, if Vocal and Melee Skills are merged into the HoH traitline, as suggested above, and RC Cooldown is merged into the base skill, this should remain in the traitline to allow for a different kind of healing emblem to be built.
Rallying Cry Cooldown This legacy is really needed for RC to function. Following the goal of removing the mandatory decisions, this legacy should be rolled into the base skill.
Valiant Strike Morale Return Like RC Healing this should remain untouched.
Strength of Will Effects This is another legacy that should be rolled into the base skill because it is mandatory for captains to function.
Vocal Skills Healing One of the biggest problems with the healing emblem is the global legacies like this one. This type of legacy, while it works in other classes, doesn't work in the captain class because of the hybrid nature for the class, and negating the system of trades setup by the traits. This is the primary reason why I have suggested that this legacy, and Melee Skills Healing, be merged into the HoH traitline.
Melee Skills Healing See above.
Words of Courage Power and Morale Cost This legacy is a) not very good and b) overshadowed by all the other emblem legacies.

Minors
Time of Need Cooldown Why do we need two legacies for one skill? That doesn't seem very efficient, especially when there are so possible options for the class.
Escape from Darkness Cooldown Unfortunately, this, like the ToN legacies, are mostly found on swap emblems. That said, the only place EfD shines is in PvMP and while learning new raids.
Muster Courage Cooldown Mostly used to increase the frequency of SfW, with the increased fear wiping as a secondary benefit. This is also a candidate for a swap emblem.
Time of Need Morale Cost Same story as ToN Cooldown.
Grave Wound Cooldown A must have for tanking.
Shield of Dúnedain Cooldown This legacy is overshadowed by everything else for the emblem. It is extroaridnarily useful, though.
Shadow's Lament Cooldown A must have for DPS.
Words of Courage Pulses An interesting legacy, but overshadowed by everything else for the emblem.

[Jeremi]

It is true, however, that power management is not a core element of our class. There are so many other interesting core elements that are much more exciting. Almanus1 is right to say that if refining power breaks our class we might as well be cut from the game.

You are putting words in my mouth too Finn. I never said it was a "core" element of our class. Nor did I say the fate changes "break" our class. If you took that out of what I said you just misunderstood what I was trying to say.

I did say it was (or used to be) a useful part of our class though - and it would be hard to argue otherwise I think considering Song Brother, Tactics: Focus, Victory Banner... ect are all abilities we have that were designed to help the group manage their power. So it "was" (emphasis on the was part) a part of our class that is no longer of any use, and that's what I was trying saying. This is a bigger problem for Loremasters.

I also mentioned all of the legacies, traits, virtues that are pretty much a waste as well. It's not just abilities. The Fate thing is way out of balance in my opinion, and causes a lot of things on this game to be of little or no use. Fate is just way OP - and trumps almost all power-related content.

[Elrantiri]

You are putting words in my mouth also. I never said it was a "core" element of our class. Nor did I say the fate changes "break" our class. You - like Almgagus - are responding to me over things I never said, and it's hard for me to know how to answer back when you do that.

I did say it was (or used to be) a useful part of our class however - and it would be hard to argue otherwise considering Song Brother, Tactics: Focus, Victory Banner... ect are all abilities we have that were designed to help the group manage their power. So it was obviously a part of our class that is no longer of any use, and that's what I was saying. It's an even bigger problem for Loremasters.

I also mentioned all of the legacies, traits, virtues that are pretty much a waste as well. It's not just abilities. The Fate thing is way out of balance in my opinion, and causes a lot of things on this game to be of little or no use. Fate is just way OP - and trumps almost all power-related content.

It's a problem for several classes if not all of them.

Hunters have pretty much no use of Bow of the Righteous, Press Onward, Strength of the Earth and their power reduction legacies because getting a bit more Fate is superior - though you can argue that BotR doesnt really cost anything to put in.

Minstrels seem to be on 98-100% power all the time, making their power restore skill(s?) completely useless.

As you say, one of the feats of the Captain is to restore power and thereby strengthen our fellowship, and that part has been made redundant with U10. I think it's fine that Fate has been made useful, but Turbine pretty much killed all of our power restore skills in the process. I'm not entirely sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing though, as I would rather be able to ignore power management and focus on the instance mechanics, but on the other hand it also gave another level of difficulty in some instances - instances that are now easier than ever before, and that were pretty easy already.

[Jeremi]

It's a problem for several classes if not all of them.

Hunters have pretty much no use of Bow of the Righteous, Press Onward, Strength of the Earth and their power reduction legacies because getting a bit more Fate is superior - though you can argue that BotR doesnt really cost anything to put in.

Minstrels seem to be on 98-100% power all the time, making their power restore skill(s?) completely useless.

As you say, one of the feats of the Captain is to restore power and thereby strengthen our fellowship, and that part has been made redundant with U10. I think it's fine that Fate has been made useful, but Turbine pretty much killed all of our power restore skills in the process. I'm not entirely sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing though, as I would rather be able to ignore power management and focus on the instance mechanics, but on the other hand it also gave another level of difficulty in some instances - instances that are now easier than ever before, and that were pretty easy already.

I'm old school I guess, and prefer a more strategic game play that centers around skillfully managing your resources while performing your class role as effectively as you can in the process. The newer style seems to be more about dodging red circles that appear on the ground while zerging things to death as fast as you can without any regard for power. So I guess it all depends on what kind of game people like in the end.

I'm not ready to give up on this game yet, but if it keeps going down this same path I will probably start looking for something new soon though. This game is starting to feel too much like WoW for me.

I do agree with you that it's nice Fate is more useful though, and I do think the stat needed a buff. I just think they went overboard with it - and you touched on that by pointing out how it has overshadowed so many other aspects of this game.

[Almagnus1]

I did say it was (or used to be) a useful part of our class though - and it would be hard to argue otherwise I think considering Song Brother, Tactics: Focus, Victory Banner... ect are all abilities we have that were designed to help the group manage their power. So it "was" (emphasis on the was part) a part of our class that is no longer of any use, and that's what I was trying saying. This is a bigger problem for Loremasters.

This is a good thing though, now Song Brother can focus on what it was intended to do all along: Help out the healer.

And on the upside, Loremasters get one of their original functions returned to them: power restoration.

You said you don't want the classes homogenized, so why aren't you celebrating this distinction and press Turbine to give power restoration BACK to the LMs?

[Jeremi]

This is a good thing though, now Song Brother can focus on what it was intended to do all along: Help out the healer.

And on the upside, Loremasters get one of their original functions returned to them: power restoration.

You said you don't want the classes homogenized, so why aren't you celebrating this distinction and press Turbine to give power restoration BACK to the LMs?

I think you missed the point of my post Almagnus, and that is to say it doesn't really help out the healer much anymore in my opinion - because the healer already has endless power.

And I don't understand why you think this change gave more distinction to the classes. All it did was give everyone easy access to an endless power bar as far as I see it. So if anything, I think it further homogenized the game.

[Elrantiri]

This is a good thing though, now Song Brother can focus on what it was intended to do all along: Help out the healer.

And on the upside, Loremasters get one of their original functions returned to them: power restoration.

You said you don't want the classes homogenized, so why aren't you celebrating this distinction and press Turbine to give power restoration BACK to the LMs?

Well, Song-brother still has massive issues IMO, and U10 did nothing to fix it.

Song-brother gives us 3 buffs, -power cost, power restore and outgoing healing. Before U10, two of those were useful and now we're down to one.

I have no idea what you mean about Lore-masters getting ANYTHING back:

Lore-master:

Reduced power drain effect on Power of Knowledge
Slightly reduced power restore effect on Power of Knowledge
Channeling time has been reduced for Power of Knowledge from 17s to 8s (Untraited) and 25s
to 16s (Traited)

If anything, the change Lore-masters got is that they can just stack some Fate and regen power as fast as they can share it, and is that really a good thing except making it simpler?
Most classes won't need a power restore from Lore-master nevermind the power restore Captains bring to the table, they can just grab a bit more Fate and get some good crit at the same time.

Take a look in the Minstrel forum (as they're a primary target for our Song-brother)
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ack-Fate-again

I'm unconvinced, I have 440 fate and my power didn't move let alone run out.

[Almagnus1]

Well, Song-brother still has massive issues IMO, and U10 did nothing to fix it.

Song-brother gives us 3 buffs, -power cost, power restore and outgoing healing. Before U10, two of those were useful and now we're down to one.

I have no idea what you mean about Lore-masters getting ANYTHING back:



If anything, the change Lore-masters got is that they can just stack some Fate and regen power as fast as they can share it, and is that really a good thing except making it simpler?
Most classes won't need a power restore from Lore-master nevermind the power restore Captains bring to the table, they can just grab a bit more Fate and get some good crit at the same time.

Take a look in the Minstrel forum (as they're a primary target for our Song-brother)
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ack-Fate-again

It illustrates how broken of a healing tool it is.

Right now, only To Arms is truly helpful, because it's SoW is pointless with its Inspire.

This XBro needs a revamp.

[Big_A]

I'm one of those captains that stopped leveling at 30. It's not because of low dps... I can deal with that. The reason is that once you hit level 30, you stop getting any useful solo skills until level 50. Take a look:

(Note: This reflects each skill's usefulness in a solo environment... most of these are great group skills)
32: Cry of Vengeance - useless
34: Herald of Victory - very marginal (less so with fate revamp)
36: In Harms Way - useless
38: Tactic: Focus - useless
40: To Arms (Shield-Brother) - very marginal
42: Grave Wound - useless
44: Kick - FINALLY a useful skill about 15 levels later than all other classes get their interrupt!!
46: Withdraw - useless
48: Strength of Will - marginal to useless
50: Time of Need - Useful!!!

So in that 20 level gap which represents weeks to months of leveling, we get an interrupt at level 44, and finally get a useful offensive skill at level 50 (provided our defeat events aren't all on cooldown which they are 2/3 of the time without the legacies).

Here are three things I would do to improve the leveling process:
1. Reduce default cooldown times of defeat event skills. These skills are one of the signature abilities of the captain class, and until you get the legacies to reduce the cooldowns, they are unavailable 2/3 of the time. I'm lucky to get a Routing Cry in once every 4-5 encounters, which makes getting the class deed especially frustrating. I know we can reduce the cooldowns with legacies, but I don't want to wait til level 45+ to feel like I'm actually playing a captain. Either make the reduction part of a trait line, or just drop the default cooldown to 30s. Don't even get me started on the Ettenmoors armor set bonuses. If I don't want to wait til level 50, what makes you think I'll wait til level 85.

2. Fix the level 30-50 dearth of solo friendly skills. Possibilities: Make Kick available in the low 30's. Make the Archer Herald available in the 30's. Just give us something to change the gameplay a small amount.

3. It's been said many times before, but that just means it's important: Make heralds useful again. Some of those skills listed above could actually be used in solo play if the heralds were worth using.

I understand that a captain is, and will always be, primarily a support class who shines in groups. That shouldn't mean that they're an absolute chore to level. Please do whatever you can to make the class enjoyable to solo through the early parts of the game.

[Ellenara]

I really love having a herald to fight alongside me, please don't remove them. It would be great if we could slot them with weapons, armour and jewellery to improve their stats.

[Elrantiri]

I really love having a herald to fight alongside me, please don't remove them. It would be great if we could slot them with weapons, armour and jewellery to improve their stats.

Yes, double the amount of instance farming please :P