1. Making captains PvP to get best PvE gear. I hate going out in the moors, but it is my duty to the kinship I am to get my perserverance and command sets. They need to have PvE sets have the same set bonuses as 6 sec rallying cry and +5% sure strike damage bonus. The other option is to only have PvP sets only work in the moors.
2. Captain DPS is horrible. I can get my might over 3200 and my champ with 2300 might has basically twice the DPS as my well geared MoW captain. I know that we are a support class, but we should have a DPS line that would rival that as on OP guard. An OP guard still isn't that great at DPS, but a captain should be able to match an OP guard.
3. We need another threat skill or two for tanking. Tanking with a captain, especially more then one target, is an absolute mess. If you get a decent DPS class, it is impossible to keep aggro. It is messy using force taunts and waiting for cooldowns to keep the target on yourself. Noble mark works OK on one target, but if you get a great DPS player you are losing aggro. We need to have one more threat skill, would be great for an AoE one, and that would help fix some captain tanking issues.
The other thing is this
PLEASE DON'T NERF FATE ON IDOME, KEEP IT 85 LIKE THE REST OF THE STATS. Just when I though idome would be relevant again, it had to be nerfed
While the hot swaps are annoying there is one blessing to it. Unlike other classes we don't have to make any tough calls when it comes to making a legendary for healing or dps or tanking. Since our pool of legacies are split 4 ways instead of 3 we can offload all buffs onto separate items so that we can keep our main legendaries focused on our 3 tasks (healing, tanking, dps).
Out of our pool of legacies there are 11 legacies dedicated to buffing. Meanwhile we can almost completely fill up on the legacies for any given task. So if we want to dps we can have nearly all available legacies for dps, healing, tanking. Now here is the blessing.... We can have nearly all relevant dps legacies AND 11 buff legacies simultaneously, same with healing and tanking.We don't have any tough calls to make here, we can have it all.
If we lose those 11 buff legacies they will be replaced with nonbuff legacies. After which we lose the effective ability to run with 11 extra legacies. For better or worse those 11 legacies will get distributed along healing, tanking, and dps. Meaning we can no longer "have it all".
Rockx if you go down this road stay in close contact with us. The hotswaping may be tedious but we could easily paint ourselves in a corner trying to fix it. Unless we can just drop legacies without replacing it we would need a good plan in place on how to go about making this happen. I'd rather "hotswap" than lose the ability to "have it all".
TL/DR Hotswapping is annoying but getting rid of it MAY be a bigger annoyance. Keep in close touch with us when you go down this route.
I guess I'm echoing a lot of what has already been said, but I think its still worth saying!
1 - Revamp the long/perma buffs
(IDOME, motivating speech and the 3 tactics buffs). These skills are starting to feel a bit outdated now, they've been around since the beginning and weathered so many stat/itemisation changes that they're really not that relevant anymore. Focus especially looks set to become even more irrelevant than it currently is with the upcoming fate changes so should probably just be ditched. IDOME is underpowered for a legendary trait and just looks kinda weird now the fate component has changed. The other 3 skills are all so tied into LI legacies that captains can be denied entry to raids just for not having the extra LIs to maximise their potential.
So what can be done to fix these issues?
-Firstly get rid of the buffing legacies. They don't add anything to the class, because everyone has them, but just cause more item grind for the class.
-Second re-examine IDOME. Either seriously rebalance and amp up the stats or repurpose it - how about making it more dynamic? Different captain traitlines could change its effects or something, ie LTC capstone gives it a % damage buff, HoH an incoming healing one and LoM a defensive buff.
-Third re-examine what stats the tactics skills give. All have been around since the beginning and havn't kept up with stat changes. Focus especially is outdated and needs changing. How about a crit defence buff to supplement the new focus on this stat in U10, a mitigations buff or a tactical/physical mastery bonus?
2 - Make heralds relevant again
Considering captains are one of only 2 pet classes in the game, it feels like it should actually be beneficial to use them, which it definitely isn't right now. While semi useful while levelling, at endgame I don't think I've ever used any of mine. This is mainly because the banners are so much more useful, and allow more dps or more buffing, as well as being replaceable during combat. Few ways I can think of improving them, not necessarily to all be implemented together:
- Allow in-combat summoning (think calling for reinforcements kind of situation)
- Remove the requirement for herald armaments to be equipped for summoning (allows banners and heralds to be used simultaneously)
- Increase the potency of heralds a lot. Either just up their stats, make the stats on armaments more varied and/or stronger, change some traits to grant heralds specifics rather than up their damage/morale like they do now. Ie change 'Captains Hope' to grant the herald a big heal skill or something along those lines. That could encourage their use not just general but allow to be tailored to different situations too.
- Collapse all 4 heralds into one and just make them more customizable along the lines of the ideas above
3 - Create a new short cooldown melee skill
Especially when I'm dps'ing I find that I often run out of skills to use. There is a definitely a point in my skill rotation when I'm just sitting there waiting for something to come off cooldown, and it really ruins the flow of combat for me. This effect was especially pronounced at lower levels in my opinion. Something along the lines of sure strike/defensive strike would fit in quite nicely; relatively low damage with a small buff attached. How about something with a chance for self morale heal under Light of Elendil (equivalent to the defensive strike power heal)?
With all that said, I don't think captains in a particularly bad place right now and as such sweeping changes aren't really necessarily. Just the odd area to work on Thanks for listening Rock and I look forward to hearing your ideas on this class!
We're pretty much the only class that runs around with a giant 2 handed weapon (other than champs). Why does captains DPS suck so much? Cooldowns on our skills are still fairly high and are locked due to crits/defeat responses making us stand around basically auto attacking.
Levelling this class was the absolute slowest I've seen, we just take forever to beat anything down. Even at end game (when 75 was end game) its terrible.
Reduce cooldowns, increase overall DPS especially in red line and give us a bone and add some new skills.
- We're the only class that has a sprint which does NOT remove slows. The moors armour set does this, for 5 seconds...
Let our sprint remove/ignore slows.
- Heralds are never used, ever. Every captain I see uses banners. If we're traited DPS, make sure our pet does nice dps with us, etc.
Playing well with other captains:
- Rallying Cry does not stack:
- Word of Courage does not stack:
- I don't think any of our shield/blade brother skills stack...
- Forget skill names but Marks for damage/reflect heals/threat does not stack...
As other mentioned we're way to overly reliant on legendary item legacies. Increase our base skills.
I can say I've only tried tanking once or twice (properly traited) it just doesn't work. We simply have no threat and when it comes to waves of multiple mobs, its a complete wipe. Either completely remove the tanking line and replace it with a pet/dps hybrid or have it a good revamp.
Last edited by borstan; Feb 26 2013 at 12:50 PM.
One other request: let marks stack.
Yes, it is potentially overpowered (though somehow reveal weakness stacking fully isn't?!?). I'm good with marks stacking with diminished returns of some sort. e.g. 1 Telling = 10%, 2 = 15%, etc. I like having more options. In the normal raid with 2 Capts, currently you start with "I'll do telling, you revealing, OK?". And that does it for the whole raid. I think it would be more interesting if you could say "we need a bit more DPS here, and heals are good, lets do 2 Tellings for this part, then 2 revealings on the boss". More options, but diminishing returns stop it from being degenerate like burg stacking in TOO or turtle runs.
Even now with a lack of decent choice for the dps/tanking legacies, I prefer to have dedicated LIs for dps/healing/tanking with different relics, LI titles, stat legacies. And I had it prior to RoR expansion.
At the same time no other class is forced to have separate LIs for all possible roles. It is a choice which we - players - are free to make. A Rune Keeper may ignore the fire line and go with 4 LIs only, or even ignore the healing traits and limit himself to 2 LIs. We don't blame champions without tanking LIs, nor do we ask burglars to have gambling tools or every hunter to have a CC bow. At the same time captains are required to have buff-LIs no matter what role they choose. Of course, I saw captains who ignore this requirement and put motivating speech on the main weapon... they get a lot of critics from the player base.
Ishtarien - Captain 105
Ishtarel - HNT 105 / Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Ishtari - RNK 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Lunasa - MNS 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
The Mellowship - [EN] Eldar -> [EN] Evernight
2. Make Shield of the Dunedain usable on the Captain. We need more ways to keep ourselves alive when we get into trouble - and this would be a very easy and common-sense way to do it.
3. Make the Herald and Archer more powerful. This class would benefit so much from having a viable form of ranged damage, especially since developers are so intent on putting melee damage at a huge disadvantage in many fights. Allowing the Herald to actually be capable of tanking something would be a great addition as well, and would give us some Crowd Control options in group content as well as making this class more interesting when soloing.
Anyways... just my 3 cents ^^
1. I am going to say this and I KNOW I will be in the minority for saying it. I feel we need to "remove" the heralds and Archers from the class. The question is this, do we want to become a pet class like the LM class? My answer is no. This is what I feel we might become if we start going down the path of "beefing up" and giving more abilities to our heralds/archers. I say we move away from the pets, I prefer more power be given to our banners.
2. Have our banners affect the entire raid and/or outside the grp the capt is in. Remember the bug where the banners would affect both grps in the raid (lasted a few days). I thought how good this would be in multi-grp situations. One capt have a hope banner, another capt use the might/agility banner, etc. The entire raid would be affected and not just the grp they are in. The true buffing of multiple capts would shine here.
3. Healing as capt, we rely on our RC and spamming WoC. I say if we trait HoH we have more of a heal coming from WoC. As of now, its not where it should be if a capt wants to main heal some of the harder 6 mans. Maybe if we trait HoH, that unlocks RC or another WoC skill. Example when we trait MoW that unlocks our Shadows Lament to not be tied to a defeat response. Have something similar to HoH.
Will think more and post other thoughts later, at work atm.
1) Soloing/questing as captain is so slow compared to other classes. Make our killingspeed faster.
Example of solutions:
A) Give us some kind of stance that increases our DPS wich only is useable when not in group.
B) Blade brother effects applied on ourself.
C) Make heralds stronger.
2) I don't consider IDOME as legendary anymore. Make it as a normal skill/trait. And give us a new stronger one.
Or make IDOME stronger. Give it som additional effects such as, Resists, - attackspeed!
3) Cry of vengeance got an awesome buff with that ress. Only for 20seconds though. I would like to have it seperated from the ress with it's own skill.
If they remove the 11 they will have to refill it with something, that may be good or bad. We need to go down this road with caution and communication. What ever vacuum they create we will have to fill it, do we go with the vaccuum we know or roll the dice for something better?
Last edited by Armitas; Feb 26 2013 at 03:39 PM.
Ideally we want 6 solid legacies for tanking, dpsing, and healing, tossing that left over 11 to hotswaps allows that to happen. Breaking that 11 may mean 9 solid dps legacies and only 6 slots.
Last edited by Armitas; Feb 26 2013 at 03:45 PM.
I'll take hunter for example. Hunter has a surprising number of legacies on their main-hand weapon that are good but not required. Hunters pick the legacies that best suit their play-styles. They don't make multiple main-hands to have access to all of them because they just use the ones that are most relevant to their play-style.
That's what I'd like to see on captain. Meaningful choices for LI legacies without feeling like I'm losing stuff by not using every single legacy available to the captain.
I know you mention that a capthis/her capt but I really do feel the capt has more good LIs then most classes out there. Every class out there has some legacies that are ok and meh. Granted I am not going to disagree a tweak here and there but replacing 11 legacies....I would be a little hesitate on that.should have to make a choice for which legacies work best for
We can all agree on one thing, the Capt is "King/Queen" of Swapping! If they would change this, what would I do with all my precious macros I created. ;-)
Do not play a captain, but since a captain is a man's best friend, I often play with one. I like the current state of the captain, and I think only a few tweaks are needed.
1) Song Brother: this is not a small tweak...with the upcoming ICPR changes, where does this leave song brother? SoW and Inspire become useless, they would need a major change.
2) Pets: Dare I say pets usable with a banner?
3) Idome change should be reversed. Why can't the cappy provide awesomeness to their group?
My thoughts are this for the captain class:
1) Increase the armor value bonus (i.e. double it) without the legacy on defensive strike and lengthen the duration up from 10 seconds. This should help put the captain in more of a tanking role capability.
2) Routing Cry and Battle-Shout need to do more damage than that wimpy number they have now.
3) Words of Courage -> lose the morale cost.
Thank you for this thread for input to provide. I love the captain class I have played main with a Capt as a main from SOA. I agree with the players who wanted to make the banner, marks quicker for the moors the new trait to pull agro when off tanking. 99 percent of Capt cannot solo anyone in the moors the creeps laugh when they see them. The herald have been bad for so long. I have not played mine since the level cap was 50. The Captain has so many problems that is very hard to get at 3. lol
1. Slight DPS increase for PVP and PVE. His DPS right now is the lowest in game. There have been many times when are DPS is so low that I will have difficulties getting a 3 man that already has a Guard and Heals. About half of 3 mans I am told no because of my class. I am not trying to make him OP. There are many others that have posted great ideas for ways to increase our DPS. I want the Captain to be a challenge to play still. Maybe 6 out of 9 on the low dps end for single tgt only! This would also help when getting agro back when an unexpected off tank occcurs! Captain can get threat using a few different ways, but one is DPS.
2. Most Captains run out of power in maybe 1 and half to 2 minutes with food in combat. Most have power return during rally on 100% of the time. Even when solo. The power consumption is huge and it gets much worse when tank traited.
3. Captain sets of armor bonuses are bad. There are many great ideas to fix them above.
increase his DPS so that he playable again and I will very happy! Most players have him as an alt Kin raids, grps only!
Captain for life Mikewulf
Last edited by Cutman; Feb 26 2013 at 06:05 PM.
My top 3:
1. Allow for herald upgrades for raid-level viability: option to add finesse, non-common damage, etc. that are required to contribute
2. Adopt SWTOR-style pet movement (pet auto-jumps to you if it gets stuck out of range, pet only starts a fight if it attacks)
3. Give a "big" heal with a long cooldown to balance the healing skills.
1) Buffs - Make IDOME, Motivating Speech and the a combo of the best of the 3 other buffs a Cappie "aura" and remove "buff" legacies.
2) Banners - The banners of war, hope and power could do with some reconsideration in light of changes to stats over recent years:
For the banner of war (currently gives might/agility which ignores tacticals) I would like to see reversioned for outgoing damage by the group, so stats like +physical offence, +tactical offence and +crit ratings.
For the banner of hope (currently gives +1 non-stacking hope and morale) I would like to see reversioned for healing, with stats like +morale, +outgoing healing, +incoming healing and +crit ratings and possibly reduced power costs.
The banner of power/victory could be reversioned to the "banner of defence" which focuses on providing added defence to the group, so: +morale, +physical mitigation, +tactical mitigation, +resistances, +crit defence.
3) Shields - Use of a teeny-little shield with a bulky, halberd wielding Cappy doesn't fit their tanking style. I would like to see Captains go the way of Champs for tanking, with large bonuses to parry. (In fact, it'd perhaps be better for might to provide parry, agility to provide evade and vitality to provide block). Do away with the shield, and have Halberds be the tanking-threat-mama of despair instead.
1. Please no Trait-TREES. That would kill the class for me, and the game. Traits. No Trees.
Only wow clones use trees. Even GW2, which is the game hinted at by Kate Paiz to be emulating from at only using 5-7 buttons, does not really use trees. Innovate, never regress.
2. We are the most power hungry class in the game, which needs every single power reduction legacy, trait, and virtue in order to stay in the action, so to speak. I would like to choose class traits and legacies without this constantly churning in the back on my mind, will I have enough power, will dropping this trait make me go out of power in a minute, and as so often due to trial and error the answer is yes. I wish this revamp, more than anything, leaves that old and tired topic behind when a captain chooses how to trait.
3. Please find a solution to the buff stick problem. It's annoying to carry 6 legendary items in my backpack, all of which I NEED in order to keep my rotation at an appropriate level. Maybe fold some of the legendary buffs into the skills themselves, which honestly, could use the buff without a LI slot. Perhaps fold some of the necessary LI traits into class traits or capstones (not as great of an idea as all of them are needed currently).
4. Revert Leader of Men to Moria days. A tanking captain given 2-3 abilities does not a tank make, not matter the additions. Tanking is a serious role, and should be treated with more respect than that.
A captain tank should be an "off tank". A single target tank, a clean up tank, a helping hand to the main tank, when a monster goes for the healer in a hectic situation or one is missed by the main tank. In that case, the captain's role should be to pick them up and temporarily be able to act as a tank, but you can't honestly make them a real tanking class so please don't dilute our skills trying to do that.
The old Leader of Men used to provide a fellowship wide bonus to call to arms (been a long time), but now that ability has been removed and diluted to a lesser version for everyone else, to make up for the fact that this particular type of captain is trying to tank. Come on now, that's silly. I used to run LoM in Moria and I ran LoM in ROI, not once did I consider myself a tank.
For actual tanking captains, no offence, but why would you even want to replace a warden or a guardian in a group? For one, you can't. Your skillset doesn't allow for that. And second, if you want to tank instead of playing a support class, which is what the captain is supposed to do, what's wrong with those classes? Jack of all trades, master of none, that is the captain's motto. We are not supposed to be frilled up into having one of our trait lines into a tank role. Gosh.. Why. Even wardens have problems, and they are a tanking class (they have a problem with stuns).
Why open that can of worms, and why did the developers even listen?
Please, revert leader of men to a support role, jack of all trades, single target, secondary line of defence before mobs go for the healer. Let them tank 3 mans, but not go so far as to change their skill sets to try to turn them into a class able to main tank halls of crafting for example, as some players would no doubt expect themselves to be able to, now that they have a tanking line. Tone it down a bit. Clarify expectations for a development end and for the class.
5. Revert leader of men to provide fellowship wide call to arms bonus without any "lesser" modifier. (At least this if nothing else.)
6. Fix our innate power issues without reliance on 50 different things to keep us on par with every other class. Did I say power issues? We have them. A lot of issues with power.
7. I like my banners. I don't want to use pets, but they shouldn't be so bad as to make that the only choice.
Taking it from the top:
As I see it, The captain class is all about flexiblity, and building yourself correctly for the encounter at hand. For this to work as the traits imply, we need to be a competent tank when deep LoM traited, a raid quality healer when deep HoH traited (this might be possible given the defeat response + Hytbold Healer armor combo), and a halfway decent DPSer when deep LtC traited. We still need to maintain the ability to go as we do currently, which is what the non-capstone builds should be focused around.
Part of the problem is with trait taxes.... Fellowship Bro and IDoME are two of them that a lot of people expect from the captain class (with Oathbreaker's Shame as a very close third), and unless we have other legendaries (including the capstones) that provide a more compelling reason to bump one of those big three, most of the legendary traitings are going to look extremely similar across all builds. Now for Wrath is another trait tax - our power issues are so bad that a captain MUST have this trait or they will run out of power (or make the LM want to shoot you) - which essentially forces a two blue trait splash to all builds, which in turn brings up our average healing. Something that would help here is the RK trait mechanic where X traits give a steadily increasing bonus towards that trait line. This leads into another problem...
I have a feeling the herald was built to scale with a stat-capped model, and never really updated, which is why we left it in the dust so badly when RoI came out. There have been many suggestions on how to improve it - but I personally favor smartly marrying the herald to the skirmish system. Looking at two of our traitlines (Lead the Charge, Leader of Men) it indicates that we should be leading a unit into battle, and with the skirmish soldier and herald, we can do just that. I suggest the skirmish system because it offers us the easiest way to alter how it works, while also allowing the captains greater freedom in what the herald looks like. The skirmish system could also allow the herald to run with other traits from various roles, allowing a greater freedom to customize the herald. Either way, right now the LtC traitline is weak because it has two traits for an aspect of the class that is not cutting the mustard.
The single best thing that could happen with buffing is to normalize it UP, and merge all of the buffing related legacies into the class, thus idiot proofing this aspect of the class. Like the Earring, whenever it comes to a group v captain choice, the captain will almost always lose. By also normalizing buffing, it shoots the buff stick issue (which many of us hate), and it also allows the freedom to rework traits and legacies to better assist in the various traitlines... which leads into the next major problem with the class...
The vast majority of legacies are healing oriented. There is not much in the way of DPS related legacies, nor are there any effective tanking legacies (partially from tanking being introduced to the captain class such a long time after we got our legacies in MoM). Long story short, they all need an overhaul/replacement - something to take care of with the next expansion NOT at 85. I also strongly feel that the overall healing legacies are a bad idea for this class, because it allows for LtC to push out abnormally high healing numbers when you stack a healthy amount of might + tactical mastery + a lot of crit - especially since the line is DPS oriented, simply by traiting Relentless Optimism + Now for Wrath and slotting a healing emblem.
There's a lot of work that the captain class needs, but what we don't need is another Earring debacle, where stuff is flagged as a problem, and then promptly ignored. Rather, most of us would be thrilled to have an active conversation with a dev (and much of the angst would likely subside), provided the dev can tolerate some of the more cantankerous of us (like me).
Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir
Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West
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