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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Proud Canuck
    1) An AoE DPS attack... even just one that can hit 2 freaking targets... Burgs are the ONLY class that have no AoE skills whatsoever. RK, LM, Champ, Minnie, Captain, Guard... I don't worry when I pull 4+ mobs because I know I can just mow them all down at the same time... Burg though, accidentally pull 4 mobs and its either touch and go (and hope I have enough power to burn em all before more come), or hips. To be able to hit a couple things at once would be nice... Leg sweep as a targetted FM + aoe knockdown would be even better...

    2) Survivability - In the moors, we're useless... CC has been nerfed out the wazoo, and our crits (read dps) are non-existent. In a group, one good 360 degree AoE or a tank that decides its a good idea to run in circles around the troll, and we're dead before we notice...

    3) Rotation speed up... While we have some really nice rotations, we have several skills that are avoided because of the extremely long animation durations or delay before the skill. Many mentioned above...

    Non-Burg Game changes that GREATLY affect the burg:
    1) Conjunctions - These were last revamped when exactly? Sometime LONG before the stat cap was removed... A 6 yellow seems to tick for what? 4-8k... You know, about 2-4 seconds worth of a single DPS classes damage, but takes 6 people 4-6 seconds to get off... I remember when a group that could land a straight consistently was like being in god mode, great heals, high DPS... These days, I give people &&&& for putting in yellows or reds because they would have done more damage auto-attacking...

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Bree and beyond
    Quote Originally Posted by Isy View Post
    (2) Ranged Slot - Burglars suffer by not having a ranged attack and ranged auto-attack. In many ways this is more obvious at lower levels when tagging mobs, but is now more obvious again with open-tapping. I would like to see Burgs given permemant ranged-weapons (choice of hatchets, serrated knives e.t.c.) NOT consumables. Swap the "remove corruption" from the consumable knives to a new Burglar skill instead.
    It would be great to have just one ranged attack that wasn't dependent upon having inventory items. It's a bit too common to be in situations where ranged DPS is called for and all we can do it contribute Reveal Weakness, so having an attack to use would be a positive. Hunters don't have to buy their arrows nor do wardens have to buy their javelins, so giving us the ability to use a non-consumable throwing knife shouldn't be a balance-breaker. It wouldn't be a hugely important skill combat-wise, but I would find it fun to have. (I find for myself that throwing knives and hatchets as implemented simply aren't worth the bother for such a small return.)
    [COLOR=white]Delaney ~ Burglar [/COLOR][COLOR=lime]*[/COLOR] [COLOR=White]Kimbre ~ Warden [/COLOR] [COLOR=lime]* [/COLOR][COLOR=White]Daeryth ~ Captain [/COLOR]
    [LEFT] [URL="http://pillagers.ayakis.com"][COLOR=darkorange]Pillagers of Pipeweed[/COLOR][/URL] ~ [COLOR=lime]Landroval[/COLOR][COLOR=lime]
    [/COLOR]"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." - Frank Herbert

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    your mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Hippo99 View Post
    In my mind, none of these dynamics are transparent. They all involve taking advantage of behind the scenes game mechanics.
    In Options, UI Settings, "Show Skill Queue".

    If you've ever watched a youtube video and seen an hourglass display showing skills' timings, that's where it comes from. It clearly shows the action duration of skills, and was explained in a developer diary.

  4. #79
    1) Mischief: Like so many said before, improved debuffs vs increased duration is a way to go. Being able to stealth in mischief wouldn't be overpowering. Possible debuffing from stealth? (see gambler distraction - intresting mechanic to add to the game).

    2) Stealth: QK > Gambler > Mischief in terms of speed, but even then QK stealth speed is still slow compared to wargs. I'm against the simplification of skills, but this one is overdue. Remove run speed bonuses from traitlines, while making run speed faster while sneaking. We need to catch up to our prey, not have it walk away from us leisurely.

    3) Survivability: This one actually isn't all that bad. I think a few tweaks here and there is what's needed. HIPS on warg is 3min when traited (sprint 3min too another survivability skill), so why not make HIPS last longer on burg (15 seconds?) Immunity to tracking while HIPS'd as mentioned above. TnG could see +25% to melee sources like BA's ranged sources. KO is fine imo, that reflect dot is extremely strong bordering OP (see 9.1 changes). Ready and able is the only non racial 30min cd in game. Hmm. Reaver against the odds is the same skill on a 10min cd with a heal. R&A on 10min cd (with legacy) with a heal too?
    Last edited by Apache140; Feb 26 2013 at 05:08 PM.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    1. Survivability. It's been said enough times but I will also say it again. For a melee class we simply do not have enough mitigations. If you want to get the idea... do a few full BG T2 runs and you will understand why.

    2. Make sure PvMP and PVE players have access to equally good items in principal. Currently the best offhander to get for PvE is 137dps e.g. and PvP one is higher. It's ok for people to choose how to acquire their items either via PvP or PvE but no one should be forced to do either to get the best items to a certain extent. After all this is a PvE oriented game and there are already some must-haves from ettenmoors.

    3. Addle cooldown is a major let down for a lot of burglars. A lot of the current content shows way more inductions than the proclaimed "once every 20 seconds" so getting addle back to 5sec cooldown is fair. Besides this, why get so people angry by changing this? I know a very easy way to make a lot of people happy again and supposedly some of the guys in heavy armour think the same!

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Would like to see a trait line re-shuffle. For example Leaf Walker, Footpad and Swift and Subtle should be in Quiet Knife while Cunning Wound and Spatial Sense go to Gambler.

    Another suggestion would be the ability to apply two tricks to a mob, even if it takes a legendary skill to enable it. One from stealth or simply out of combat, then another once combat starts. It could even take cues from the Warden where applying tricks in particular sequences changes their effects.
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=Cyan][COLOR=Gray][COLOR=DarkOrange]Luewella BRG [/COLOR]- [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrange]Ouroboros MIN[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Cyan][COLOR=Gray][COLOR=DarkOrange] [/COLOR]- [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrange]Ninky HNT[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Cyan][COLOR=Gray][FONT=Arial]
    [COLOR=DarkOrange] [COLOR=DimGray]»[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=DimGray]gwaith-i-har[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][URL="http://www.auroraaustraliskinship.info/phpbb3/"][COLOR=White]

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Delaney View Post
    I like the free-form trait system we have much, much better than the strict trees the mounted combat system uses. If we had to trait our characters to conform with a pre-set tree, it would devastate the ability to customize one's character to match with one's playstyle. This would be a huge loss. It's not the trait system itself that isn't working right now, but some of the traits/lines within it.
    (Generalising to include more than just burglars when replying to this.)

    I have to agree with this. My main for a long time was LM and I enjoy raiding content the most. In some raids, it is/was necessary for a LM to retrait between the trash and the boss, or from wing to wing. I would have to see how the trees work out, if the idea goes ahead, but it does worry me.

    The only way I can see it working in situations like raids would be to have a combination of tree based skills, but still keeping some form of trait system for quick changes in circumstances where quick changes are required. Otherwise the losses may be too great to keep people interested in the long-term. Part of the magic of the game is that you can trait and retrait your class to be dps / crowd control / tank / healer etc depending on the situation you're in, and do so easily.

    Also thinking of 3 mans which I have done in so many different class set-ups to the norm of healer/tank/dps. I'd worry that trees would somehow force players into more classical set-ups to stand a chance at completing T2 challenge. But it does depend on how the trees are developed etc.

    I don't envy the devs this job, to develop trees that conform with the individual class's ability to customise their playstyle depending on what they are facing.
    Friends of Smeagol - Eldar Server

  8. #83


    Dear LOTRO Dev team,

    Here are a few suggestions/opinions I feel strongly about when it comes to the burglar.

    Now I am no hot shot burg, but I do believe we need a change up. You will be losing a subscriber soon if they aren't fixed soon enough. Now, that may not sound bad to an MMO that makes hundreds of thousands per week, but I hope you guys care about the individuals needs within the community. The burglar must be fixed. The burglar simply cannot PVP like it used to be able to. Ever since the MoM expansion, the class has only been hammered and hammered and decreased in ability.

    A few major problems:
    Mits - Apparently by fact, in update 10, Burglars will be the lowest rank of melee classes when it comes to mits. It is extremely difficult to get even 40% tactical mitigations on a Burglar. Just in general, a Burglar's morale drops at an insane rate vs any creep thats worth a look.

    WARGS, however, have 20k morale and insane mits. Don't get me started on the flayer stance. I mean isn't the Stalker class supposed to be the rival of the Burglar?

    Self Survival - To get started, Touch and go is practically useless against Creep classes such as the warg. Bestial claws cannot be evaded, and 80% of wargs (on Brandywine), spam it due to it's insane damage in Shadow stance. Black Arrow's evade is quite insane, while I, myself, have a 70% evade chance when TnG (Touch and Go) is up, and barely evade.

    Quite Knife - Turbine, you are FORCING Burglar's to PVP in Gambler stance. I have been a Quiet Knife Burglar for the last 3 expansions. This expansion, I am forced to trait Gambler and learn it because being a Quiet Knife Burglar lowers your self healing abilities significantly.

    Gambler - Being a Gambler stance, if I do say so myself, is quite fun, but your DPS is very low compared to Quiet Knife. If you are going to force Burgs to PVP in Gambler stance, make the damage at least decent.

    These problems I am bringing about may not be exactly 100% correct, but I have played a burglar since the lvl 65 cap, and I do know this: Turbine, please fix the Burglars. I love this MMO, but I cannot stand playing any other class besides my Burglar. I feel like we have been kicked around too much for the past few expansions. It's time to find another class to throw to the dust, Turbine. I took my time to right this and hope that it somehow becomes notice-able throughout the Turbine community. It is my final straw, because I will not play another class, nor this one if it isn't fixed.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    My big 3:

    1. Stealth seems to serve a purpose in PvMP, but doesn't seem to serve much purpose in PvE. I can generally get around stuff without it aggroing on any character (since they lowered aggro radius a while back) and even if I can't, it's pretty easy to just train stuff. So what use is stealth? One thought I had was to give tiny bursts of stealth to get behind a guy while soloing. You could drop a low-quality lure trap to keep the enemy in combat if you're soloing.

    2. Okay, also related to stealth. I'd really like to be able to go at a regular speed in stealth. I realize there seems to be a balance issue with walk/run speed and stealth, but given other games I've played that didn't force this tradeoff, I'd like to suggest that it doesn't have to be that way.

    3. I'd REALLY like to see an update to FMs. Today, FMs are so boring and unimportant that everyone just skips them anyway. I would suggest that we need some buffing effects from complicated FMs, not to mention non-common damage for yellow FMs...

    If I had a fourth, it'd have to do with a ranged aoe skill while mounted (perhaps a crafted item that you could use?).

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Fandriel View Post
    (Generalising to include more than just burglars when replying to this.)

    I have to agree with this. My main for a long time was LM and I enjoy raiding content the most. In some raids, it is/was necessary for a LM to retrait between the trash and the boss, or from wing to wing. I would have to see how the trees work out, if the idea goes ahead, but it does worry me.

    The only way I can see it working in situations like raids would be to have a combination of tree based skills, but still keeping some form of trait system for quick changes in circumstances where quick changes are required. Otherwise the losses may be too great to keep people interested in the long-term. Part of the magic of the game is that you can trait and retrait your class to be dps / crowd control / tank / healer etc depending on the situation you're in, and do so easily.
    It could work with a system similar to Rift where you can have multiple builds and switch between them just like changing stances. Perhaps? I guess a couple of build slots per toon to begin with, with more available for TP purchase through the store.
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=Cyan][COLOR=Gray][COLOR=DarkOrange]Luewella BRG [/COLOR]- [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrange]Ouroboros MIN[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Cyan][COLOR=Gray][COLOR=DarkOrange] [/COLOR]- [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkOrange]Ninky HNT[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][COLOR=Cyan][COLOR=Gray][FONT=Arial]
    [COLOR=DarkOrange] [COLOR=DimGray]»[/COLOR] [/COLOR][COLOR=DimGray]gwaith-i-har[/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE=1][URL="http://www.auroraaustraliskinship.info/phpbb3/"][COLOR=White]

  11. #86
    First of all, welcome to the amazing group of burglars. Really appreciate that you want to invest in this class. Most of us feel neglected lately and while we were fine for a while, we are a dying class now. Hope that with the coming changes we once again will be the diverse class we used to be!

    1) I know most of the others already said this, but to just let you know its a really really really big issue: Survivability

    2) Swiftness: We are an agile class who strike from shadows. Our blades flash so the enemy has a hard time defending himself. Alas we do this at a pace worthy of my grandfather and he doenst even live anymore. Addle was used by all of us to cut down insane long durations, like flashing blades, surprise strike, reveal weakness etc. I liked the burglar for his quickness, but i lost that feeling the last few months. I can understand the change to addle, but you have to face the underlying problem why we want addle back, its not because we want to interrupt everything, we want to be a fast melee class again.

    3) Legendary skills. Already pointed out several posts back, but our legendary traits dont feel legendary. They are outdated. Please re-consider them and update them considering the latest game changes.

    Goodluck on your job, hope you enjoy to work with the class and hope to hear more from you!

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    San Antonio, TX
    while many have expressed that MM could use a little love, and I agree to a certain extent, I think the traits and traitline overall are very good, and it is due to 2 other factors that it is percieved as less useful: 1) the content simply does not require it. I hope future instances will make MM a viable role more than they have (while there have been some trash wings in OD and Orthanc both where MM can be extremely useful, especially if your group doesn't have crazy dps, there have been almost no bosses where this has been the case (I've seen some very little mention of using a MM burg in saruman t2, but that's it, and I've sadly only tried the fight on t2 once, and not on my burg)) due to most encounters being dps races, and somewhat related to that 2) QK is probably a bit *too* powerful, but that's true of dps for all classes across the board, which feeds back into #1. while I don't want to see dps requirements dumbed down too much, when the encounter is dumbed down if you can bring insane amounts of dps to bear, that's a problem of its own. that's also not particularly germane to this thread, so onward...

    1) all that said, a few minor tweaks could improve the MM experience IMO:
    a) return the dev crit buff in MM line to -10s trick removal cd as it was at Moria launch, instead of the current -5s and +magnitude.
    b) while I think the MM traits overall are good, the -resist to riddle and confound could be rolled into the improved riddle and confound traits themselves, and we could come up with another fun MM trait to take its place. an alternative but less fun modification would be to simply change the trait to a flat finesse buff
    there are probably plenty of other possible minor things that could be considered and chosen among, those are just a couple that popped into my head.

    2) survivability is definitely a concern. burgs generally have the lowest morale pool and some of the lower mits (come u10, unquestionably the lowest mits) of any class. I don't think we need, and would not like to see, a huge buff in this regard, but some tweaking somehow wouldn't be amiss. while I think having to take some thought and care in engaging a mob is good, having a very real risk of getting 1-shot by an aoe is a bit much. TnG and KO can help, but only when they're not on CD, and having to use them as a matter of course rather than as intended for emergencies such as when you pull aggro means they're not available for those emergencies. while it doesn't do much for burgs, my preferred course of action would be to leave things mostly as is, and just scrap the stat and armor set bonus changes intended for u10 entirely as there is no reason for them, and plenty of reason against. again, while that doesn't help burgs, it at least would keep mits in some semblence of order with light armors not capping tactical mit without even trying. back to original point, perhaps an addition could be made to stick and move to help with this. i'm not sure a straight +mit would be appropriate, but a possibility if nothing more creative (hopefully without being contrived, as some class changes have been recently) could be found

    can't think of a 3rd atm, maybe CJs, but idk. and again, even the 2 i mentioned i don't think need major changes. i'm tired of major changes to classes and systems that are unnecessary and generally unhelpful.

    ETA: i'm also very skeptical of a tree-system vs. our current system
    Last edited by tomiathon; Feb 26 2013 at 08:42 PM.

  13. #88
    I agree with most of what has already been suggested. Just a couple of quick additions:

    Ranged Attacks: I don't want to see burgs turned into hunters with toggle stealth or anything like that, but some kind of ranged attack that is an improvement over consumable throwing knives and hatchets would be nice. Maybe knives and hatchets with a longer range than currently available that return to the user?

    AoE: Some variety of burglar specific AoE would be nice... Though I am not sure what kind of a form that could take, were it even possible.
    .......All those moments ... will be lost ... in time ... like tears in rain.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Hey Kelsan, first of all I'd like to thank you for communicating with us, much appreciated. Now for the top 3 things.

    1. Survivability, in my 5 years of burgar I've never been this squishy, both in PvE and in moors. I would like to suggest on giving us some passive tactical mitigation, or add it into gambler talent tree with some other survivability bonuses for example "knives out" + duration. Turning Touch and go into +50% incoming miss chance would do the trick too.

    2. Gambler/Mischief maker. I've always been gambler, all I could ask is to give us some sort of warden "battle memory" so we can store gambles later on in the fight and increase gamble durations. Upgrade the effects of clever retort, 500 morale heal or attack in these days is kind of a joke really. For mischief, it is bit of a mess now and I cant find any reasonable solution onto it, all yours My only tips is to make it our primary debuff line.

    3. Give our CC back in moors diminishing return and audacity destroyed it. With changes in RoI-RoR we lost our burglar status and turned into champions with medium armour and plain bad survivability. Also fix flashing blades, the animation is annoying long, either alter it or add 3rd attack.

    Also: Some sort of ranged dagger throw with reasonable dot and slow would be much appreciated, we're only class with zero ranged skills.
    Last edited by Jureon; Feb 26 2013 at 09:16 PM.
    [Juregar/Laurelin] [Jureon/Evernight] [Ragetrain/Laurelin]
    Member of Puliveivarit
    I was a corner survivor

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    1) A purpose in groups.

    I know we are suppose to be Utility but, unlike LM Utility, or Cappy Utility we can't Choose a real ROLE in groups. (DPS, CC, Heals, Tank, Debuff, Power)

    2) We need Much better power...

    I always have major power issues on my burg. No other class do I have this issue with... I've stopped playing my burg as my main because of it... I don't ever play him now... (he was my main for about 3 years).

    3) Hook up Burg actions to LUA.

    I wrote the TonicBars plugin, burg is only of the only classes that has class hookups into lua, but none of them work. It would allow me to create some much cooler mods with better hooks. Like when Stealthed, when Tier 1 triggers, when Tier 2 triggers, when Tier 3 triggers,
    "Shepherds of the Forest" -- RIP

  16. #91
    1. Survivability- We need some new survival stat/skill/trait. We must be in melee range while we have medium armor, no shield, no tac mit stat bonus(new will), no physical mit stat bonus(might). With update 10 agility becomes the old fate, a junk stat that needs updating.

    2. Mischief Maker- Its the debuffing line for the debuff class and yet it is rarely used more than 2 traits at once(5 QK). The 2 and 5 trait line bonuses need work and I have no clue why poison removal got tied to debuffing line, hunters already had that covered...

    3. Capstone Legendary legacies- In order to run any trait line effectively you need to have the capstone legacy. Ideally I'd like the Legendary capstone cooldown just lowered to 15 seconds and the legacy removed but if thats not possible at least combine them into one legacy so players can change trait lines easier and play around with different builds.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    My top 3:

    1) Survivability. This is a problem for all DPS classes these days (and may be partially fixed by the incoming changes on BR), but burgs more so than any other. For champs, it is mitigated by heavy armour (which gives considerably higher tactical mit for the same rating and, combined with being might based, much higher physical mit without building for it) and good survivability skills. Hunters have similar problems to burgs, but I can generally at least hit BN if I get aggro before the mob reaches me. Burglars (and hunters, to a lesser extent) need a serious base survivability boost. The simple fact of the matter now is that if you get aggro on anything remotely dangerous you will get one-shot, and often just from random target/AoE skills without having aggro at all.

    2) Skill cooldowns. With the speed of DW and all the attack duration buffs available, I often have to use tricks or low damage skills to fill holes in my rotation. A small decrease to the cd of crit chain skills would be awesome.

    3) General trait/legendary revision - Far too many underwhelming or flat out useless traits, which have been mentioned by others.
    Eraelin | Redemnus

  18. #93

    Top three..

    1) I would like QK to have a -% attack duration buff for the stance, or at least get rid of some animations (flashing Blades)

    2) I really like the idea that in MM you can apply more than one trick. AND NOW SO DO YOU!!!!!!!

    3) maybe add some aoe capability? or make knives out -inc damage, not limited to mele? or make it so fellowship maneuvers can be used on all bosses? Seriously, that was my favorite part about draigioch.

    Thanks for Dev-ing it up for us!

  19. #94
    1) To help Gambler line; gambler stance- add reduces cunning attack cd to 2 sec & removes well placed strike induction. Burglar skill bleed legacy should effects damage gambles. Cruel odds should be an automatic critical vulnerability debuff. Cunning wound should be a straight +25% dot which also effects damage gambles. In trait lines switch cunning wound trait with cruel odds trait.

    2) To help Mischief line; reduce cd of clever retort and confound to 1 min 30 sec. Confound the fools: add -30 sec cd to confound/improve confound. Mischief stance add allows the burg to put 2 tricks on a target( a trick removal will remove both tricks). Reverse confounds order of effects, daze/stun first then the debuff.( also change the ridiculous animation). Increase sm snag/quite a snag range to 30m.

    3) To Increase survivability; touch and go and find footing add slow immunity. Side step gives touch and go and find footing -15% incoming tactical damage. Clever retort counts as fellowship maneuver, activates signal buff, escape clause and overwhelming odds. Change enrage from +5% incoming range damage to – 15% ranged damage. Have blind fury give an additional -5% ranged damage. Since there is no more miss chance dust in the eyes +20% miss chance is useless, instead it should place a 30 second fear.

    4) Quiet knife stance, add -4 min hips cd
    Last edited by wolfaqua; Feb 27 2013 at 06:38 AM.
    Syphon lv100 burglar; Galadtharion lv100 hunter; Durweis lv86 guardian; Tarmature lv80 warden
    I'm huntin fo wabbits

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    As I didn't read the full topic due to time, these ideas probably have been mentioned a thousand times, but then again it shows the urge of change:

    Been playing the class for quite some time, I'm not a real update-following person, but as far as I know, the biggest and last ''revamp'' and not a nerf was actually when Moria was released (bare the fact that Safe fall was very good), anyhow:

    Priority (1). Mitigations. Yeah, it has been called out so many times, but it is actually a fear for every group leader to take a Burglar, as they will be oneshot anyhow. Back in Mirkwood, Burglars could tank, this was due to might hanging around 400-500 without trying this, this brought us some 'passive' mitigations. As we all know, these days we are getting huge hits, adding up to 10k, and as we are forced to hug Agility in order to have a bit of utility in a group, we are ''squishies'' and most likely useless in any group and the upcoming raid.

    So my idea would be to drop Critical rating on some jewels and on the new set for us sneakers, as Fate will be the second stat on most items I suppose, and adding Phys/Tact mitigation to it. Either this, or improving trait lines/set bonuses to give us additional mitigations.

    PvP Priority (2). HiPS revamp. As it has been mentioned earlier, HiPS is hardly an escape skill anymore, as pets (spider adds mainly) have bugged it out for over a year as I've noticed now (or at least remember it for over a year). As we have a shiny new dev now, it should (finally) be taken into account, as HiPS is supposed to ''Hide'' against any npc, rather than little spider pets damaging you for 800-1k after you actually use the skill.

    In addition to the mitigation suggestion, Mischief line. It has been, and still is a fairly useless line, apart from a few traits: Disable trait/Counter Defence trait/Riddle trait (x2)/Reveal weakness trait (this is my personal opinion). However, the CD/Disable traits are fairly useless in group play (where it is used mostly) due to the updates of CD/Disable over the years, and the fact that percentages don't do much anymore, they aren't actual percentages. Besides, 5% of 10k is equal to 500, which does often not change the fact that your health will be below 1.5k :P. The Counter Defense trait is good, but I never tested it whether it has any use when a player has maximum critical rating. Besides, it is another percentage (3% versus 6%) and as most fights don't last long, we can not benefit the 3 crits in 100 hits-difference. I would speak for most of us, if maybe one trait improves the addle back to it's old 5 seconds. I have no idea why this was changed, and I think it had been changed as most interrupting skills had been changed, but Burglars don't have any fast skills apart from a few, and Addle used to be (and still is) a skill to cut off most skills such as DEs and Flashing blades AND surprise strike from stealth, which are 3 major dps skills who have a very slow animation... So I hope you could fix anything in regard Addle, while combining the trait lines!

    Having all these complaints said, I am very glad we finally got our own developer, instead of sharing LM-Hunter-Burg developer. I hope you are playing the class as well and enjoying it as much as we do. If you want to know more about the Burglar class itself, I'd suggest you watch some Post-RoR vids, of Kalyna or Nelt for example. They show you a good state of the Burglar these days (capability, survivability and most likely balance between classes themselves)

    ::: ::: ~ Arrostorm
    ::: Commander Vilemaw Sad, Watcher ::: - Get it? ---- ::: Master Guardian Ceburia 'the Banned' ::: ---- Snowbourn[EU]

  21. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Nowhere to be seen.
    It's hard to give only 3 suggestions so I'll give 3 small scale suggestions and 3 large scale suggestions, besides giving 2 points I would heavily disagree on.

    Small scale
    Fix animations on skills to smoothen skill rotations. Skills that pop up to mind are Flashing Blades, Reveal Weakness and Surprise Strike.

    Revamp skills such as Profound (Not sure that's it's name, hasn't been on my skillbar for 2.5 years) and WPS (nerf bleed but make it instant, Inductions don't suit Burglars).

    TnG and KO need some sort of buff to make them viable in the moors again. In PVE they're still good, but in the moors there's only about 10% of moments they would be very useful.

    Large Scale
    MM trait line. Either make it the only CC line or just make it whole different. As it is now Burglars in QK can do their CC duty just as well as in MM in every situation.

    Make Burgs the Assassin type again in stead of the Champ with a bit of CC. In the old days I could single out a target in a raid and get away with it. That's burgs power, to be the most deadly, ambushing class imo. Ways to do this is to buff our stealth, make us untrackable when hipsed and lowering creep stealth detection. As it is now there's no way I'm getting near a group with a BA without being seen or without destroying my build to get more stealth level. Getting stealth level on a stealth class shouldn't be a nerf to it's other tasks.

    Revamp CJ system so it's useful. This is something to discuss with the Instance Devs, or whatever they're called, as well. CJs are the most fun if executed well. And I'm not talking Draigoch style of zombie'ish pushing red and yellows, but the possibilty to use CJs on bosses again, saving the group, which was always what attracted me most to Burgs back in the day.

    Changes I highly repulse
    Getting ranged attacks. We're Burgs, cmon guys.

    Wasting time making us viable in Mounted Combat. It's not pretty for us but I'd rather be awesome on ground and have all that flaws fixed first.
    +Moose+ tells you, 'Do you still need me to put the smack down on this foe??'

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Hello hello Kelsan! Welcome!

    I have a few questions about the new Burglar Trait-trees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsan View Post
    So this sentiment is something that has come up each time we've mentioned the concept of Talent Trees and I think you've clearly outlined where the concerns stem from.

    The only Trees currently in LotRO are the Mounted Combat trees which are linear and restrictive. This design makes perfect sense for a system that is exclusive to a small level band and limited by encounter type. With this as the current example of Trees, it is a logical assumption that should we move classes to a Tree system that it would be very similar.
    Do you mean that such an assumption - regardless of how logical it would be - is incorrect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsan View Post
    All I can say is that, our classes are much more complex and hinge on player choice. Our experiments in Trees have been to support/encourage player experimentation in both specialization and generalization.
    Hmm. The best way I can think of a tree supporting/encouraging player experimentation in both specialization and generalization would be to have many branches.
    Trees are by nature exclusive - certain lines open up other lines, with possible benefits for following a line. There may be a plethora of branches, sticks, and twigs, and we may choose the length of the branch, as well as the number of different branches, but unavoidably we are still being restricted to follow along those lines.
    I am not against this - this adds a whole new level of complexity - and therefore, customization and uniqueness. However, if done incorrectly (overly simplistic and minimal), I would find it a frustrating infringement.
    So, how complex are these trait-trees to be? Will branches overlap? How much overlap? Will they adapt as we level? Would gear affect them? When will this come into the game?
    Would it be possible to hear more about this, to allow us to give some feedback on trait-tree development?
    Thank you, and welcome again!
    Last edited by Beast_of_War; Feb 27 2013 at 04:43 PM.
    Happy LotROing!

  23. #98
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Here, There and Everywhere
    1- Change out of combat restealth to 5sec instead of the current 10sec. Restealth of 10sec after being in combat remains the same. Restealth used to be 5sec and can still be seen on ranger session characters. If no changes are to be made to the frequency that tracking occurs via skill and/or store items...a quicker restealth if out of combat is warranted.

    2- Increase the overall effectiveness of the cunning attack bleed. Non crit bleed tics are trivial to say the least. From stealth, as well as any crit/dev crit bleed tics are substantially reduced by any higher mitigation targets(moors). If no changes are being made to well placed strike induction and positional component...make wps increase in magnitude in relation to how many bleeds the burg has on the target.

    3- Add immunity to movement impairing states with knives out, touch and go and find footing if those skills aren't planned to receive improvements.
    "THE EDGE, there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over"
    — Hunter S. Thompson

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Laforza View Post
    Restealth used to be 5sec and can still be seen on ranger session characters. If no changes are to be made to the frequency that tracking occurs via skill and/or store items...a quicker restealth if out of combat is warranted.
    Originally, there was no cooldown on restealthing out of combat. It caused problems and so the 10 second cooldown was added. The 5 second ranger cooldown is separate, as the actual "skill" the ranger uses is not the same as the one burglars or even wargs use, and it always had the 5 second cooldown.

    Even my Signature is trolling!

  25. #100

    My 3

    Obviously the Squishiness or Survivability seems to be the #1 concern of the majority.. But I think that's more an issue with Medium Armor Mits, the lack of Tact Mit available to them, and AGI classes in General.. so I'll be more Burg specific

    1-Mischief Line. Scrap it and start over. Think of this as the Trickster line.. so it should be the one to have the most tricks available to it, and the most diversity. When Traited deep into Mischief, along with reducing trick Cooldowns, and allowing tricks to stack, up the damage on those tricks so they could almost be the main source of damage, or at the very least a MAJOR part of the rotation.

    2-Bleeds.. and the Gambler. I like bleeds, they're fun.. but Burglar bleeds are very underwhelming. Make it not so when traited deep into Gambler. When traited deep, reduce the cooldown on Cunning Attack to 5s. Allow CA attacks to stack up to 5 with all other bleed skills (and I mean, ALL Cunning Attacks.. even two non-crits). Allow the Burg bleed legacy to affect Gambles. Either do away with WPS, or have the skill open up once 5 bleeds are in place. It would then be insta-cast, wipe all bleeds and replace them with a HUGE whopper of a bleed. The mother of all bleeds. It would have to be more powerful than 5 CA Crits.. or equal to it. Mmm, bleedy goodness.

    3-Animations and cooldowns. I'm of the feeling that all Burg attacks and tricks should be fast skills or immediate skills. If that means reducing the damage on some, I'm ok with that.. But the Burg SHOULD be the quickest. Reduce the animations on ALL the skills and it certainly wouldn't hurt to reduce the Cooldowns on the Burgs main skills (Subtle, CA, Surprise), as well as the two Crit skills (BA and DES). Flashing Blades is just OK, but it's delay and animation are not. Expose Throat is "meh". In fact, none of our Legendaries are legendary. But that has nothing to do with how fast we should be attacking.

    Ok, so I named three but went off a little.. which is pretty much the state of the Burg right now.. unfocused.

    Glad to have you on board Kelsan! Good luck, and I look forward to seeing what you and the Burg community can come up with!


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