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  1. #251
    Ok my small contribute to this thread

    We all noticed that QK is extremely popular compared to the other 2 lines. Thats because all the skills work the same in all 3 lines and there is nothing breathtaking in Gambler or Mischief to lure people to trait that. In gambler you trade dmg for gamble effects that arent really something (i really like debuffing one though, but damaging one is very low with dmg. 3rd one is good only for pvp). In mischief we trade dmg for... confound and reduced cd on riddle? I like the skills but...

    The best place to bring something that could change the things a bit would be tricks. There should be additional debuffs (or maybe buffs) on non-enrage tricks and i would call them annoyances. Now how would that work? Every succesful hit with one of the non-enrage tricks you have a chance to get Annoyance effect on target. Yeah i said chance.

    I wouldnt bother with numbers because that needs to be tested, but this is how i imagine annoyances...
    Counter Defence Annoyance: This skill is debuffing enemy defences so annoyance like -x armour value or -x tac and phy mit would be ok
    Disable Annoyance: Since skill affects enemy attacking skills would be nice to have -x crit rating, -x% crit magnitude or -x mastery
    Dust in the Eyes: Its movement and miss chance debuff so maybe aditional movement penalty or maybe resistance debuff could be nice.

    QK trait line
    2 traits - +10% chance to get annoyance
    4 traits - +10% chance
    So total of 20% in QK

    Gambler
    2 traits - +10% chance
    4 traits - +30% chance

    MM
    2 traits - +10% chance
    4 traits - +60% chance
    MM legendary - Sets annoyance chance to 100%

    Duration of annoyance should be somewhere around 15-20s. Only one annoyance can be on target at the same time.



    Im done with annoyances :P, but i have some other ideas...

    When we were talking about burgs when i started playing about 3 years ago, we were talking about stealth, debuffs, stuns and CJs. So first 3 are ok but the last one is useless at this point. Thats where Turbine can improve burgs a lot and make a teamwork fun again. What we need in CJs is better magnitude of the primary effects (dmg, dot, heal, power) AND an extra buff for fellowship or debuff for enemy. Crit, crit magnitude, masteries, finesse etc from some more demanding cjs would give us a lot of fun. Epic cj that sets crit chance to 0 for some amount of time is one awesome way to force people do CJs and learn some other mechanics.

    I already mentioned in previous post, but crafted consumables are awesome way to make gameplay and crafting more interesting. We just need this consumables more useful. Long cd, need to stand in place and magnitude of dmg on caltrops make this things pretty useless.

    Theres plenty of place to make some awesome changes in traits as well.
    [b][center]LUTZ THE GOD of Whitywindle[/center][/b]

    [center]Z fanboi[/center]

  2. #252
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    AFK in Dol Amroth
    Posts
    828
    Stick and move needs some attention.
    Fellowship Hadacar: I now have a mental image of a little pea with a NE Patriot's logo painted on it.
    Professional AFKer.

  3. #253
    1. Flashing blades to be a skill, but the legendary to make it AoE at the cost of damage to give burglars a bigger role in AoE fights.

    2. Revamp mischief maker to have a bigger role in raids...1 Way to do this would be to rework The scaling of tricks and quite a snag to make debuffing burglars better than, or equal to LMs since burglars are suppose to be a debuffing class when LMs are suppose to be for CC.

    3. The burglar is a debuff class, not a buff class, so please stop all these garbage buff to the fellowship bonus sets burglars get and make them debuffs like the class was designed to be.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520 a00000006a7cc/signature.png]

  4. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Reichpapers View Post
    1. Let us be able to see our stealth level and stealth movement speed somewhere on our character sheet or on our stealth button.

    2. Make us immune to tracking when within the 10 seconds that our hips covers us. Or, make stealth level play into the tracking mechanism.

    3. With the finesse explosion, bring touch and go evade back up to 75%, so as to make it somewhat useful. This isn't a casual built in ability to evade attacks...this is a skill dedicated to giving us the evade when in need. Why should it be made useless by other factors.

    4. ...and for the star huggers. Allow rating stars to be seen via a selection (ie. like the mechanic that shows ythe years in game).. This way the haters can keep it off and the lovers can keep it on.
    Stars lol, the stat that shows how well a player can hug a raid and run from a fight. The changes you propose dont help the burglar class outside of the ettenmoors and also doesnt help those that dont feel like doing more killing than running

    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    Assuming that spamming CD or Disable with 0cd does around 600 dps, spamming DiTE in yellow traits would do up to 1,8K dps, thats nice, but still doing normal rotation dps would be higher. But it would still give yellow traited burglar pretty awesome boost to dmg and 1 more reason to trait it. Nice idea.
    i didnt suggest this in order to spam dust aoe for dps...i personally enjoy the burglar class the way it is and wouldnt change anything, but if i can think or something to "improve" that isnt asking to be god mode it would be damage on dust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iluvatardd View Post
    I would rather have improved crafted caltrops. lesser cd, no root on animation, increased dmg, and maybe make it hotspot. There are some mobs in game that use that. I think crafted things have to be more usefull. That can improve both crafting (cuz of more need towards consumables and gameplay for more usefull skills.)

    On the other hand there is no need for aoe burgs. If you wanna aoe maybe you play wrong class. We cant have everything in every class.
    Caltrops are items, they do garbage for damage. Correct me if im wrong but isnt it about 25-100 common damage? I have never bothered to use the caltrops. Im not looking to be an aoe class, dust in the eyes is a 5 second cooldown and hits 3 targets...if the change i proposed happened it would do about 600 damage and isnt being spammed.
    I do it for the lulz. ~SnH~
    People @ turbine/WB are a huge tease, but dont worry they end up screwing you on every update/expansion.
    " When enough scrubs get together, they accomplish great things "

  5. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    Stars lol, the stat that shows how well a player can hug a raid and run from a fight. The changes you propose dont help the burglar class outside of the ettenmoors and also doesnt help those that dont feel like doing more killing than running



    i didnt suggest this in order to spam dust aoe for dps...i personally enjoy the burglar class the way it is and wouldnt change anything, but if i can think or something to "improve" that isnt asking to be god mode it would be damage on dust.



    Caltrops are items, they do garbage for damage. Correct me if im wrong but isnt it about 25-100 common damage? I have never bothered to use the caltrops. Im not looking to be an aoe class, dust in the eyes is a 5 second cooldown and hits 3 targets...if the change i proposed happened it would do about 600 damage and isnt being spammed.
    With 4 yellow traits you have 0 cd on tricks so with your suggestion of giving DiTE damage, yellow build would provide some AoE dps build whether you want it or not.

    And I think you need to read more carefully before you reply to others posts. You are saying caltrops do low dmg, yes we all know that. The suggestion was, to improve their damage and CD and maybe make it a hotspot. Thats what we are talking about here: improvements. All crafted items need a change cause it seems like devs didnt look on their numbers for a long time.
    Naius - Burglar of Withywindle
    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-uYwngjXZI[/url]

  6. #256
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    11
    In the Ettenmoors our Damage debuff does not do as much damage against creeps than NPCs which can hurt a gambler like myself. Audacity effects burglar bleeds except for the Knives Out bleed so if you could at least let us Gamblers get the full amount of damage out of our damaging debuffs that would be wonderful! Stats normal damage debuff gives 441 damage with Audacity it only does 136.

  7. #257
    An idea I have been thinking about is the use of Mischief Maker skills , and making the trait line much more desirable. Especially in a fellow situation.

    That's why I think the 'fun' skills in MM could have a lot more viability beyond their current use. In non-combat situations, they remain as they are now, just fun skills. I'm referring to mainly share the fun, burgle , and practical joke.

    Howether, in a fellow situation, they could be a totally different animal . Lets take share the fun, as an example.

    Share the fun (in combat) could morph into a plethora of different utilities dependent upon the class you target and the stance you are in as a burglar. You could switch between buddies (with a cd) during a battle dependent upon the evolving situation, and whether you are facing each other , behind them or in front of them.
    Say you share with a guardian and the mob is facing the guard and you are behind the mob ,share the fun could be called Big brother, and aoe is split 75% to front arc and 25% to the rear, helping with your aoe problems. The guardian also gains from the skill, and can use a new skill similar to mischievious glee, or your mischievious glee heals both you and the guardian.
    Just an example.
    A champion pair could increase the number of targets your tricks affected or spread your bleeds as an aoe, and the champion gained power if you used mischievious glee, or evasion if you use touch and go, dependent upon your stance.
    A minstrel pair could amplify their healing upon whom you were assisting, or increase the potency of your tricks to reduce incoming damage or attack speed. The Minstrel would gain a 5% threat reduction while you were in QK stance.

    The possibilities are quite staggering, and make you quite useful as a support debuff class. It would make MM quite attractive. I'm not sure how you would fit gambler into the equation but using similar ideas your gambles could affect you and your buddy. These are skills, as I said, adaptable to a situation and would add such a huge amount of versatility and complexity to the class.

  8. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by TreacleTealeaf View Post
    An idea I have been thinking about is the use of Mischief Maker skills , and making the trait line much more desirable. Especially in a fellow situation.

    That's why I think the 'fun' skills in MM could have a lot more viability beyond their current use. In non-combat situations, they remain as they are now, just fun skills. I'm referring to mainly share the fun, burgle , and practical joke.

    Howether, in a fellow situation, they could be a totally different animal . Lets take share the fun, as an example.

    Share the fun (in combat) could morph into a plethora of different utilities dependent upon the class you target and the stance you are in as a burglar. You could switch between buddies (with a cd) during a battle dependent upon the evolving situation, and whether you are facing each other , behind them or in front of them.
    Say you share with a guardian and the mob is facing the guard and you are behind the mob ,share the fun could be called Big brother, and aoe is split 75% to front arc and 25% to the rear, helping with your aoe problems. The guardian also gains from the skill, and can use a new skill similar to mischievious glee, or your mischievious glee heals both you and the guardian.
    Just an example.
    A champion pair could increase the number of targets your tricks affected or spread your bleeds as an aoe, and the champion gained power if you used mischievious glee, or evasion if you use touch and go, dependent upon your stance.
    A minstrel pair could amplify their healing upon whom you were assisting, or increase the potency of your tricks to reduce incoming damage or attack speed. The Minstrel would gain a 5% threat reduction while you were in QK stance.

    The possibilities are quite staggering, and make you quite useful as a support debuff class. It would make MM quite attractive. I'm not sure how you would fit gambler into the equation but using similar ideas your gambles could affect you and your buddy. These are skills, as I said, adaptable to a situation and would add such a huge amount of versatility and complexity to the class.
    This sounds pretty interesting and would improve the support role of burglar. I would say comprehensive implementation could be like this:
    Quiet Knife stance - Share the fun as we know it - low range, sharing stealth.
    Gambler stance - high range (40m) - sharing mischievous delight heals with the target.
    Mischief stance - high range (40m), providing a buff to the target depending on its class
    Champion - + 2 AoE skills targets
    Lore-Master - -15% skills inductions
    Warden - reflect dmg (dmg could be equal to the lvl of target)
    Guardian - +15% percieved threat
    Hunter - +1 focus every 10 seconds
    Minstrel - +5 seconds anthem duration
    Rune-keeper - -10 seconds shocking touch cooldown
    Captain - +20% devastating blow and pressing attack critical chance
    Burglar - +10% positional dmg, -10% percieved threat
    Naius - Burglar of Withywindle
    [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-uYwngjXZI[/url]

  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinsgarCZ View Post
    This sounds pretty interesting and would improve the support role of burglar. I would say comprehensive implementation could be like this:
    Quiet Knife stance - Share the fun as we know it - low range, sharing stealth.
    Gambler stance - high range (40m) - sharing mischievous delight heals with the target.
    Mischief stance - high range (40m), providing a buff to the target depending on its class
    Champion - + 2 AoE skills targets
    Lore-Master - -15% skills inductions
    Warden - reflect dmg (dmg could be equal to the lvl of target)
    Guardian - +15% percieved threat
    Hunter - +1 focus every 10 seconds
    Minstrel - +5 seconds anthem duration
    Rune-keeper - -10 seconds shocking touch cooldown
    Captain - +20% devastating blow and pressing attack critical chance
    Burglar - +10% positional dmg, -10% percieved threat
    Yours is a lot better and more comprehensive than my initial examples, but thats what I was hoping for.

    I wondered if Practical joke could become 'Joke's on you!' in MM stance, and enable the skill to be used to create a burglar only fellowship manouvre. A single red,blue, green, or yellow fm . Maybe traited you could extend it to 2. Would run a different type to normal fellow, and different function.
    If you were in a fellow, the other fellows wouldn't have the same animation as a fm, instead an icon would appear above the burglars toon similar to a gamble over a mobs head.

    Red = +dmg for 5second/ increase threat transfer of provoke if used.
    Yellow = + tactical mitigation / increases targets of your next trick by 2.
    Blue= sap 5% power from the target to the targets target/ next hit on targets target gave the targets target x power for 5 secs
    Green= salve (increase the effect of the next morale benefit to targets target by 10%) / brambles (reflect x damage of any type on targets target for x seconds)

    Maybe burgle in MM tree could be traited to some type of in combat item wear reduction or repair every 30 mins for you and your fellows.

  10. #260
    Mostly play burglar as an alt and 90% pvmp 10% pve. Just some ideas (have not read entire thread)

    1) Touch and Go - Add +25% evade chance against melee attacks (kind of a flip side version to a BA moving target's +25% evade against ranged attacks). I still feel a weakness to tactical is needed as every class should have a weakness (cough wardens cough). Someone mentioned a run speed buff to the skill, which is a good idea.

    2) HIPS - Reduce CD and Legacy bonus so it matches the warg's. (5 min, 3 min with legacy).

    3) Mischief Stance/MM line - Enrage changed to a wind-lore-esque debuff with a boost when traited (its current mechanic is way too strong against BAs and rather useless in pve). Some kind of boost in mits/crit defence like warg flayer (since you can't stealth). Boost in quite a snag! debuff.

    4) Legacies - Feint Attack/Lucky Strike/Small Snag CD legacies make it so that you have to have a different LI for each trait line, which limits the variety of the class. I personally have a set of LIs for gambler and mischief as these are how I like to play in pvp. However, I have trouble fulfilling a primary ST dps role in pve without a QK/FA build.

    5) Lackluster skills in general - Clever retort (CD + magnitude), Well-placed strike (CD + induction + magnitude), Flashing Blades (animation), Dust (magnitude), Exploit Opening (CD), Trip (CD + magnitude + legendary bonus).

    6) Ready and Able - Too strong when it's used, but its long cool down leaves it overlooked. A removal or re-imagining would be nice, but not at the top of the list of changes needed.

  11. #261
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    21

    My Ideas

    Assuming the class revamp uses the 3 tree's like most games, Rift, WoW etc. These are what i'd like to see. The Burg is a support roll which I feel needs to change a bit to give more versatility to play style.

    #1. Class Revamp Trees.

    (A) A dedicated tree for DPS. Call it an assassin or glass cannon if you will. This tree should be dedicated to pure single target dps. A Burg with most of their points invested in this tree should be a great single target damage dealer. As of right now, the burg is frowned upon because even a Champion can out DPS a Burg (single target) and that needs to change. Left side could be spike dmg and the right side of the tree could be DoT's maybe. There are a lot of options as far as this goes.

    (B) A tree dedicated to support rolls. Investing in this tree will allow the burg to Debuff, CC etc. Points could be invested in passive skills that increase fellowship maneuvers.

    (C) The third tree could be something like survivability. As of right now the Burg is running into melee combat and getting beat worse than a clothy. There's something seriously wrong with that since Burgs have to be in melee range. Depending on how many points there are to spend, this may or may not be a good idea.

    #2. Ranged Combat! Add it into the skill trees if necessary but Burgs should at least be able to use a short bow or crossbow. The range won't be as far as a Hunter with a long bow, but something is needed here.

    #3. A temporary stealth skill (with a somewhat short CD) when aggro is not focused on the burg. Duration or CD could be altered by investing points into the survivability tree perhaps. This skill isn't designed to replace HiPS, it's made for using those abilities in combat that are enhanced when used from stealth.
    Last edited by scottypimpin; Jul 23 2013 at 04:27 AM.

  12. #262

    in short

    1) fix meele dps role coz of being squishy at fights,
    2) More usefull legendary traits,
    3) Need hips cool down reduction. like wargs got 3 min.

  13. #263
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Mukilteo, Washington
    Posts
    209
    I know you said 3, but here goes, in no order of preference:

    1. Flashing Blades: From the front of the mob, no change. From the back, +50% damage + bleed.
    2. In skirmishes, the soldier is useless for running stealth. Have a soldier "stay until I'm in combat" command.
    3. Touch and Go: Make the mob miss only available when attacking from the back with a shorter cool down, and add a Touch and Stay skill that has the 50% miss chance and 25% damage mitigation. Who really Touches and goes?
    4. Disable: Love it
    5. Mischievous Delight: Have a deed (Self Delight, in the spirit of double entendred Burg Deeds) that, when slotted guarantees power + PoT.
    6. Dust in the Eyes: If we do "glass in the eyes", there has to be a DoT (minimal) on us. The real world aspect of throwing glass shards means your hands are getting damaged, along with the opponents' eyes. By the way, where is that glass coming from? I mean, dust comes from the ground. Another thing... how does Startling Twist remove that dust in the mobs' eyes?
    7. Startling Twist: LOVE IT!
    8. Counter Defence: Love it
    9: Clever Retort: I like the idea of having a deed slotted where we can select the buff we want, unslotted, leave it as is (random). Also, having it slotted, you get a 100% increase in damage/DoT/Heal/Power.
    10. Riddle: So, I'm 19m away from a group of orcs, and I riddle one of them, and he's the only one that hears it? AoE Riddle should be slotable as well.
    11. Exploit Opening, Trip, Marbles, Exposed Throat: FM are a burg's bread and butter. In fact, I'd like Fellowship Maneuvers to be more integral to the operation of the game. If the doofus that can't figure out that they need to do red in Hew the Stone (RRRRRB), they get a debuff of damage for 10s (-50%). In other words, the Fellowship Leader sets the FM, and if the Fellowship uses it, they get a +5% on top of the normal FM, and if someone blows it, they get a debuff.
    12. Addle: Love it.
    13. Exposed Throat: From the back, up the CJ chance by 10% when in fellowships
    14. Well Placed Strike: Shorten the time by 1%, and also bring back the "I got smacked, so it interrupted my well placed strike" interrupt. In other words, if you are placing a well placed strike and you get hit, you stop placing that strike.
    15. Confound: Shorter cooldown (90 sec) + 5 sec non-break on mez apply. I don't know anyone that uses it, because of the cooldown and the frustration with the breaking of the mez after 2 seconds. Thinking about it, I have to keep the mobs busy for 15 seconds, and I may as well be hitting them while waiting for the mez to kick in.
    16. Burgle: Be able to... burgle cash, burgle to the 50 item queue
    17. Ready and Able: I am afraid to use that one, due to the cooldown, and not having it when I need it. Make a deed to reduce the cooldown to 15 minutes. (suggested name: Always Ready, Always Able)
    18: Escape Clause: Reduce the R&A cooldown 5 minutes (ie. you have 20 minutes left, after Escape Clause, 15 minutes left)
    19. Find Footing: Love it! Especially love it in the Moors when I have 40HP left and some Reaver stuns me.

    Again, I would really like the Fellowship Maneuvers to be more tightly integrated into the game again to the point of where when playing, when the leader puts the one up on screen, if used, there is an extra buff, and the sad sack that is totally clueless about them gets a de-buff (10s or so). Plus, if a group does the "it's all about me" maneuver (Skittles on the Floor would be hilarious on the screen if it happened), there is minimal gain. (Reward good behavior...)

  14. #264
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    612
    Im not sure if it's too late for suggestion but... I'd like to see burg's movement is faster. Other games made me used to the: sneaky class deal less damage each hit than a "toe to toe" melee dps class, but their attack speed is much faster. I really dont feel that in LOTRO's burg. Actually I think burg should have - attack duration in quiet knife stance. I read that some skill will have shorter animation in HD, that's a good news. I hope Kelsan could make burg faster.

  15. #265
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Mukilteo, Washington
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by xDementedx View Post
    It's good but not great. It has great use in 3-mans and 6-mans as a main ranged dps focus target and I agree with you in those situations however not so much in raids unlike the other tricks where the mobs can 1-shot non-tank classes if not at full morale. It's a gamble (ha) and has potential to do more harm than good. It needs something else added to it and the reason it has been mentioned because it is one of the least used. 5% to ranged damage is good but not something I would prefer over the other tricks, especially being a single target trick.
    I love enrage when duo-ing with a hunter. Here's the setup:

    We stand about 10m apart.
    I do a RW, hunter begins the attack.
    When the mob gets close to the hunter, I enrage it.
    When the mob gets close to me, I do a startling twist, aim, run behind it, SS, Crit chain, and if it's still alive when it wakes up, another enrage.

    Little risk, high reward!

    Also, in groups, when the minstrel/LM (or me) is being attacked, tabbing over to do an enrage can save the day!

    Like others have posted here, it can be a tank annoyer.

  16. #266
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    81
    Having played a burglar as my main for over 6 years, here's just a few reverts to what it use to do well.

    Conjunctions - a great idea by Turbine badly neglected, bring back its usefulness and survivability in groups.
    Stealth - fog of war so we can explore again
    Burgle - some teal armour/weapons not BOC or BOA

    Only a few suggestions to make it fun to play again.
    Leader of S.O.A Firefoot

    85 LM 85 Min 85 Burg 85 Capt 85 RK 84 Guard 65 Warden 75 Champ 85 Burg

  17. #267
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Mukilteo, Washington
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by watarun View Post
    Having played a burglar as my main for over 6 years, here's just a few reverts to what it use to do well.

    Conjunctions - a great idea by Turbine badly neglected, bring back its usefulness and survivability in groups.
    Stealth - fog of war so we can explore again
    Burgle - some teal armour/weapons not BOC or BOA

    Only a few suggestions to make it fun to play again.
    Hear Hear!

    I would love to have CJ's mean something again. I'm playing on Crickhollow at the moment, and I have yet to get Wings of the Windlord or Breath of Freedom (or even close to them) on this server. Draigoch was the last we heard about CJ's.

    For Burgle, I may start using it again, and lastly, for Fog of War, I miss rolling a new toon, and wondering where this toon has been. It's kind of like I'm new again, and I love discovering what I missed on other toons.

 

 
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