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  1. #151
    A note to fleetness hunters who build for crit (like me) - with arch-nemesis mobs having 40% crit defence due to the new changes, it reduces our DPS massively on these mobs. I worked through an example using 100 blood arrows and the total damage done was reduced by *30%* if I understood correctly.

    Time to trait more reds?
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  2. #152
    I'm thrilled to read this. That seems a pretty good summary of the issues. I'm really looking forward to reading more about Kelsan's ideas as to the way forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsan View Post
    Hey all,
    Thanks for the great posts (keep’em coming!), I’m happy to see a lot of passion and desire for meaningful changes. I’m also very pleased to say that my own analysis of hits many of the core issues you’ve outlined. (Yeah… I know, I said the same thing in the Burglar thread, but it’s true!)

    I can’t go too deep into what I’ve been experimenting with, but I wanted to let you know that we are on the same page.

    A few general things I agree with and have been attempting to address:
    1. Lack of survivability – Both general survival and panic buttons are in need of some love
    2. Role Definition is lacking – Bowmaster vs Huntsman (vs other DPS classes)
    3. Trapper of Foes does what? – This line needs a clear purpose in group and solo play.
    4. Skill Rotation needs an examination – we have some redundant and outdated skills
    5. Legendaries that are less than Legendary

    These, of course, aren’t the only things I’m addressing/adding, but I think these are some of the most prominent issues listed in this thread.

    I’m hoping to be able to post my analysis of the class in the near-ish future, so stay tuned!

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Red yellow blue

    DPS Threat Support PVP/Soloplay Survival Role
    Bowmaster ++ + -- ++ + Solo
    Trapper + - ++ + ++ Solo/Group
    Huntsman ++ -- + - - Group

    wow, that was easy... The hard part is bringing sense into it.

    These are my design desicions if I had to change the hunter into a class with 3 different kind of playstyles.

    BLUE (Huntsman)

    For me, it's important to make it less complicated which traitline to pick before entering gamecontent like raids or simply spaces in which traditional range dps is needed. In my eyes, the blue line is perfect for group content, because of its faster attacks which feel far more liquid and less boring, especially in longer fights and the improved ability to restore more power compared to Red.
    This role should be enhanced with better threat reduce skills and some support skills to be a useful contribution to group combat like fast but short stuns, corruption removal or buffs/debuffs.
    Adding -threat to the trapperline with less dps makes no sense imho.

    Yellow (Trapper)

    The biggest problem of the yellow line is probably the barely noticable improvements over a dps role.
    In gameplay, visually and in numbers.
    Do we really need a class mainly focussed on CC (traps)? Especially with no or barly noticable buffs or manipulation skill. I dont think so. So here is what I think could offer the hunter the possibility to a versed supporter role.

    • visually improve the traps of the hunter. Give them an exact border, square if nessesary. I prefer a small colored line above the ground. Just less in your face style.
    • traps should be the hunters pets. They cannot move but you love them.
    • give them a a 3d model like the trap in the dunlandquest. Your fellowship can see borders and models, other friendly players just the object, enemies see nothing.
    • allow using traps while moving.
    • make them more powerful compared to non improved versions. Esspecially with higher damage.
    • less traps from crafting, more from skills.
    • new funny traps! (maybe a 4 set boni or new legendary with a 4yellow requirement)
    maybe something like this:

    A pitfallkit (maybe craftable) allows you to set those traps. Size of mobs result in different trap effects. (Slow, stun, mez, ...)
    • Better CC: Irritation shot and bards arrow with extremly fast induction.
    • debuffing mobs while shooting. (for example Heartseaker applies strong debuff...)
    • in combat group buffs (maybe runspeed or attackspeed)
    • ability to heal groupmembers. Maybe a channeled skill „adhesive bandage„ or „athelas haze“ (group heal/increased inc. Heal)


    Last edited by Schinderhannes; Mar 06 2013 at 10:28 AM.
    Suggestions: Tasks [URL="http://goo.gl/rt4M5"]en[/URL]|[URL="http://goo.gl/BBbhC"]de[/URL]

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Thank you Kelsan :-)

    We all do see you posting more in the burg forums than the hunter one.. Trust me, that's being observed and stored away. We're a very sensitive bunch because of all we've gone through over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsan View Post
    Hey all,
    Thanks for the great posts (keep’em coming!), I’m happy to see a lot of passion and desire for meaningful changes. I’m also very pleased to say that my own analysis of hits many of the core issues you’ve outlined. (Yeah… I know, I said the same thing in the Burglar thread, but it’s true!)

    I can’t go too deep into what I’ve been experimenting with, but I wanted to let you know that we are on the same page.

    A few general things I agree with and have been attempting to address:
    1. Lack of survivability – Both general survival and panic buttons are in need of some love
    2. Role Definition is lacking – Bowmaster vs Huntsman (vs other DPS classes)
    3. Trapper of Foes does what? – This line needs a clear purpose in group and solo play.
    4. Skill Rotation needs an examination – we have some redundant and outdated skills
    5. Legendaries that are less than Legendary

    These, of course, aren’t the only things I’m addressing/adding, but I think these are some of the most prominent issues listed in this thread.

    I’m hoping to be able to post my analysis of the class in the near-ish future, so stay tuned!
    Point for point though:

    1. Please address how a hunter is supposed to beat a mid/high ranked BA with moving Target up and in skirmisher stance.
    2. Bowmaster vs Huntsman - My suggestion from the "easier said than done" department: Keep huntsman as is, make full bowmaster the #1 single target dps class in the game, but make it difficult to achieve.
    3. Trash it
    4. Get rid of P-shot derpspam, no matter how many hunters b*tch.
    • Buff Cool Burn to achieve point 2,
    • trash BOTR, & PO and replace them with something better.
    • Make Improved Fleet a toggle that requires focus to maintain rather than acivate
    • Make Bard's Arrow a base skill not requiring a legendary
    • Make the trait Explosive Arrow innate to Distracting Shot

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    First of all its nice to see a Developer in the hunter forums, so thankyou for that Kelsan.


    1) Press onward instant skill, and scaled properly
    2) While I joined LotRO late, right after the release of RoI, i always hear about the DPS values being trashed on the hunters. I think it is ridiculous that we get out DPS'ed by Rk's and wardens, which have a choice of DPS/Heal and DPS/tank. To quote a demotivational meme..."You had one job..." Our 1 job really is DPS. I have never tried using our limited CC because its hard enough to handle 2-3 mobs already. To have 1 role and 1 role only in a game, and not even have the best fulfillment of that role is ridiculous IMO.
    3)The legacies on LI's need a revamp.
    4)Get a better "Self-heal" than Agile Rejoiner, or increase the multiplier the Agile Rejoiner heal bonus legacy has on the heal buff. Instead of capping it at 100%, cap it at 150%.
    5)Patch notes stated that Strength of the Earth power regeneration was reduced...I dont know if its just me, but the power regeneration on that skill was never scaled properly in the first place. And to reduce it while it was previously useless? That seems like kicking us while we're down.
    Last edited by Mozzarellala; Mar 06 2013 at 08:03 PM.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    We need clear blue water between our single target dps and the dps of other classes. We also need more survivability.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    I have played a lot of MMO's and the Lotro hunter is by far the Chop Chop Choppy Choppiest class I have ever played.

    The two greatest things affecting the hunter class imho is Survivability and Mobility. Trying to fix Survivability ...without looking at Mobility would be a great mistake. In fact both could be combined into a brand new term: FLUIDITY! They say, in the moors that slows are the real killer, well roots are a 100% slow. We don't have to worry about creeps/mobs rooting us, because we do that better than any creep/mob...to ourself.

    Look at this chain of skills; that we use to buff up to maximum damage.
    Intent Concentration (Rooting Dance Animation) ---> Improved Fleetness (Dance Animation) ---> Needful Haste (Rooting Dance Animation) ---> Burn Hot (Rooting Dance Animation) ---> All dressed up and ready to kill som...oh I'm dead. Well I lost at Lotro, but I won at Dance Dance Revolution.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Make Improved Fleet a toggle that requires focus to maintain rather than acivate
    -best idea on the entire forum imho. Have it consume 1 focus for every five seconds (off of your focus bar) in regular fleetness. Improved Fleetness has an inherent 1 focus per five seconds, so just cancel it out, making it consume the 1 focus it gains inherently. This takes fleetness off of our Dance Dance rotation.

    Intent Concentration should be a quicker animation and no root.
    Needful Haste shouldn't have any animation or roots.
    Burn Hot; just take away the root.

    As a side benefit; our dps would increase if the animations decreased on these skills.

    Press Onward -When need is Great, you can move (Rooted) on with little rest...but first, you need to find your missing wallet. Fix: This should be an insta-cast and on the move (like in the wording), with no animation. Also buffed to scale would be nice. Lendas has been hounding for this for awhile now (he even made a petition forum for it). It not even that game-breaking, it should have just been done.

    Purge Poison(Rooting Dance Animation) Did you just try to save that dotted up mini, running from a creep zerg; well surprise your dead. Or how about getting that slow dot off of one of the raiders in BG Gauntlet; now your in the back all dotted up with your own poisons. Fix: This should be an on the move skill with an animation.

    Lets look at our Fluidity on our attacking skills.
    Swift Bow (Induction Root)
    Heartseeker (Induction Root)
    Quick Shot (Induction Root)
    Barbed Arrow (Induction Root)
    Hunters Art (Animation Root)
    Split Shot (Induction Root)
    Bards Arrow (Induction Root)
    Distracting Shot (Induction Root)
    Rain of Thorns (Animation Root)
    Rain of Arrows (Animation Root)
    Mericful Shot (Animation Root)
    Blindside (Animation Root)
    Scouring Blow (Animation Root)
    Swiftstroke (Animation Root)
    Agile Rejoinder (Animation Root)
    Wow, not exactly a very fluid class. But we do have some melee skills as well as Blood Arrow and Penetrating Shot that are non rooting. Thus the invention of the Derp Herp Wyatt Erp Pen-Shot spamaroo. Fix: First, Make all melee skills non-rooting animations (Cough blindside). Secondly, maybe a Quick Shot and Barbed Arrow having an induction, but no root...aka a moving skill. You could also makeRain of Thorns, Distracting Shot and Bards Arrow an on-the-move skill for the ToF traitline. Or maybe just take away some of the many animation roots.

    Now, lets see what a good fluid skill looks like.
    Beneath Notice (Quick animation and no root) This is a very useful skill. Draw aggro, hit the skill while moving away from the mob. Excellent! Now Imagine that it has an animation that roots or a heaven help us induction root. We would get one shotted, before the animation wore off or the induction was done. However, almost every other skill in our aresenal does exactly that to us.

    Finally, after my huge wall of text, we are at the end. To me, our survivability is directly linked to our mobility. If we can move...we can survive. We don't want an I-Win-Button skill, like so many other classes. We don't want any new skill that roots us on our already chocked full bars. We don't need a change in mitigations or medium armor to help us survive. We are Hunters...we should be a very mobile class; were not. We cannot survive long in melee against either bosses or creeps; we die. We cannot get the seperation we so desperately need; we self root. If you speed up our animations, our Mobility and Survivability goes up, as well as our DPS. If you limit our roots; we thrive.

    KELSAN, you could finally set the Hunter Community Free, by fixing our FLUIDITY! . It is within your power.
    Last edited by CAL88; Mar 08 2013 at 02:39 PM.
    [center][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000f3dbc/signature.png]Calatia[/charsig][/center][center][COLOR=GOLD]"I think hunters need another nerf"[/COLOR][/center]

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Grand 'Ole NY

    As a Huntsman

    As a huntsman I have no major complaints. I tend to be the last one alive in the fellowship besides the healer unless there is a very good tank with us. If anything I would like a shorter cooldown on my crafted traps or a mobile trap option besides rain of thorns root. I will admit that over half of our traits don't do much of anything. I personally think tanks need the improvement, they don't hold argo well any more .

  9. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsan View Post
    Hey all,

    It’s your friendly-neighborhood-hunter-dev here to say ‘Hello’ and get the discussion going on the very exciting Revamp you’ve been hearing about.

    What I’d like to get from you all are the top 3 things you’d most like to see changed about the Hunter. These can be sweeping changes, like Focus has intrinsic value or mobile combat, or small-focused changes, like alterations to specific skills or rotations.

    I’d like to avoid the snarky comments/suggestions as that just slows the process down. So please, avoid posting things like:
    “Have you read anything I’ve posted in the last year?!”
    “What’s the point? Not like you’ll listen!”

    I want you to be honest and critical, but stay on topic and come at this with a desire to see real change.
    Please Please Please remove induction interruptions! Or animation interruptions...Or whatever it is that makes it so I can't draw my bow when monster hit me
    My mini can be ganked by 3 mobs and still stand and fire off cries and song at point blank range...Why can't I draw a bow???!!!
    It's so frustrating to want to be an aggressive phenom (like I was in AC) only to find I cant get a shot off when I get jumped by 2 or mobs yet my mini has no such problem...I mean c'mon.... He's supposed to be SINGING. Al I need to do is pull bacvk a string and let go. Which would be harder to do IRL while an Orc has ahold of your gonads? Ok, bad analogy, singing tenor is the answer but anyway......

  10. #160
    I think we'd be too powerful with no interruptions on our skills, and we wouldn't need our slows/stun/roots at all.

    re mobility, how about we can move and induct, but we are slowed to 20% or something. This'd get away from the oh-so-annoying 'you cannot do that while moving' thing (which always seems to come up when I think I have already stopped), but it'd be a double edged sword because it'd be harder to break off an induction skill once started.

    Could be an ok balance in the moors too maybe.

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by CAL88 View Post
    Fix: -best idea on the entire forum imho. Have it consume 1 focus for every five seconds (off of your focus bar) in regular fleetness. Improved Fleetness has an inherent 1 focus per five seconds, so just cancel it out, making it consume the 1 focus it gains inherently. This takes fleetness off of our Dance Dance rotation.
    Just throwing it out there, but am I the only person who sees how awful the idea of a 'toggle fleetness that consumes focus' is?

    Fleetness is a buff that's centralized on skills that eat up focus. You'll be having to renew fleetness FAR more often (reactivating the toggle due to running out of focus) or we'll be drastically cutting our DPS down to something like quick shot > move, lose some focus > pen shot, lose some more focus > quick shot again because I'm out of focus since I used pen shot and about to drop out of fleetness > move > etc.

    Maybe make fleetness a toggle that enables our current focus skills (disabled outside of fleetness/have the normal focus cost without fleetness), reduces their focus cost to zero, allow them to generate focus on hits/crits/whatever (which will force us to maintain our DPS or else lose fleetness), bring back their short cds (maybe set bonuses could eliminate the cd on pen shot again), while costing us 1 focus every 5 seconds? We'd function a bit too much like champs then, but it's still better than the self-consuming focus idea people keep bringing up that will reduce our DPS to something along the lines of a morbidly obese person trying to run a marathon and having to constantly stop to regain their breath.

    So, as previously stated, I'd offer the counter-suggestion for fleetness as a toggle:

    -Fleetness becomes stance-like toggle, alters most focus skills while in fleetness (skills remain unaffected while fleetness is off). Requires 1 focus/5 seconds to maintain.
    -Penetrating shot, blood arrow, merciful shot, etc. now have no focus costs.
    -Penetrating shot cooldown is returned, other cooldowns are left as-is. (Suggest penetrating shot cooldowns reduction/negation as a set bonus or reset on certain skill uses)
    -Focus skills are capable of generating focus on critical hits as-is/with special conditions. Inductions will remain primary focus generators.

    However, as I said, this would turn us into a quasi-Champion at range, but is far easier to maintain than the previously suggested fleetness change.

    And before someone screams 'OP/easy mode', take a look at the state of the class and think about it real hard.

    Apologies if this comes off a little strong, but in the best interests of our class, let's be audacious. Suggest things that are slightly over the top or 'OP', we need it. Forgo the balance issues, those will be sorted later, we just need something done and fast.
    Last edited by Kajil; Mar 09 2013 at 02:44 AM.
    [center]RIP Character signature generator, June 2013.[/center]
    [center]Theiol, Fervar, Turthonn, and Vanka, [i]retired LOTRO[/i]|Croue, Folter, [i]Rift - Shatterbone shard[/i][/center]

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Local cluster
    Quote Originally Posted by Peresbert View Post
    I personally think tanks need the improvement, they don't hold argo well any more .
    Run with wardens much?

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    Run with wardens much?
    LOL the wardens i PUG with usually go DPS instead of tank.. so i can't comment much there...

    Regarding the possible revamp, these are my assessment of a hunter (it may or may not be true, i am in no way a good hunter also i don't PVMP).

    a) BOTR is literally useless as a legendary skill
    b) we have 4 different self "heals", but only 1 of them is instant. the other 3 is quite useless as an "oh-&&&&" skill.
    c) most bosses are immune to our CC-skills, giving us very little time to use our "oh-&&&&". (I tell my minstrel friends, if a hunter grabs agro from the boss, ignore the hunter and let him die, no point healing him only for him to die 5 seconds later and have the boss going for the minstrel instead)
    d) I still use press-onwards... but only because i am lazy to start a camp-fire and regen my morale/power
    e) reflect damage is the bane to my existence... I can kill myself with a single swift bow (if the arrows happens to devastate)
    f) not getting agro is becoming an art... when i run with lower leveled tanks (or less experienced tanks), I can't avoid agro even on endurance stance and with a whisper-draw tome... beneath notice helps but the cooldown is quite long and it lasts only 10 seconds, barely enough to lose the agro. I use hobbit-silence as a secondary agro drop, but that's only available to hobbits (and has a 1 hour cooldown)....

    Wish list
    1) botr to be revamped (i like the regain morale suggestion, even 20 morale per skill translates to about 600 ICMR)

    2) Shorter induction / inductionless press-onwards. (in exchange i don't mind having a 10 minute cooldown upon usage)

    3) improved morale regen for Strength of the Earth... 103 morale per tick at level 85 is really weak, even the level 40/50 athelas pots would give me more morale than that, with the same cooldown time.. I'd rather run up close and get a parry response so that i can use my agile rejoiner instead.

    4) traps to be usable in combat (but in exchange, the cooldown is doubled/tripled) combat traps will instead shorten the cooldown for traps. (while we are at it, tripwires to be usable in combat as well , so that we have another semi-reliable FM starter in the middle of combat, instead of an extremely situational FM starter for groups who can coordinate themselves well enough to cast wrath of the oathbreaker in the beginning of every boss fight)

    5) Reflected damage to be mitigate-able (but not avoidable).. if possible (gives us more motivation to have crit defense, (especially for fires of smaug tier 2) otherwise we will just go on add duty, or pay more attention when we see blades spinning around a target we've just clicked swift bow on...

    6) a hobbit-silence-like skill as an instant agro-drop. in exchange make it such that the hunter will not be able to attack (or possibly move) for 10 seconds (and will still take in any DoTs that may be active / suffer AOE damage to punish the hunter for being forced to use this in the first place. ) with a ~5-10 minute cooldown.

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Remove any self buff that lasts shorter than five minutes. All of them. Then add that damage/speed to a mix of skills.

    That is Hunter's Art, Burn Hot, Fleetness.

    Currently not playing hunter because I'm expected to spam self buffs every minute/thirty seconds/5 minute
    instead of dealing damage
    because i can't deal damage without it.

    Hunter USED to be the only class I was able to play in this game without hurting my hands/wrists/arms. For every poorly timed self-buff this edge was lost. Now it's gone.

    Call it lazy, call it carpal whatsthename, call it anything - playing any other class for an extended period of time hurts my wrist like hell.

    I'd love it if buffs could be running the same length of time.
    I'd love it if self buffs ran at least half an hour.

    I'd love it if buffs could be handled the way they are in one of my otherwise least fav games - slot buffs in any order tied to ONE button - like a revolver drum perhaps - press that one button to cycle through the buffs.
    99.9% of gametime, no doubt I'd use same sequence over and over.

    Save me the pain? Save the class?

    My hunter wants to have fun and play.
    For two years, nobody has said to me 'Log on your hunter, it's raid-time'.
    Noone has asked me to raid with my fav/only playable class. Actually that might be longer than two years, perhaps as much as three.

  15. #165

    Relevant travel skills

    I'd like to see other hunter support skills, like travel, be relevant again. When was the last time you saw someone spamming for a hunter to give them a ride somewhere? It's not needed like before. Most of the new areas have swift travel between every location, and this is a stealth-nerf to hunters. Get rid of some of the swift travel, make it so not every new town is reachable from every other (if you're going from Rohan to Forochel it *should* be an epic trip that takes quite a while and several hops), or at minimum raise the cost of swift travel to 2-4x what standard travel is or make it take a mithril coin.

    Add some more hunter campfires to tie to and/or give us a second campfire tie skill.

    Aside from that, DPS, DPS, and DPS are my wish list. We're soft and squishy and DPS is the one thing we are supposed to do well. Other classes can now do DPS just as well, but they get self-heals and other defenses.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    London UK
    Hi Kelsan

    1. revamp of yellow trait line to something usable. not sure why devs have been so scared and nerfed dps in this traitline. Yellow was actually v useful for soloing mobs in LLG - I'd like to see this developed further. Also with some survivability, melee, cc (that works) in the moors. I hate being so squishy in the moors, I want to get stuck in again instead of being Pepe le pew at the back. I want to leap down from camo again like batman, pow, bish, bash.

    2. Rethink of legendaries - explosive arrow, never use it, press onwards too weak, too long induction etc.

    3. general tidy up - e.g. LI legacies combine induction/focus crit chance. too many skill on the bar ! here we go - focus, press onwards, fleetness, burn hot, hunters art, Go !!! OMG and I havent even fired my bow yet. combine some please.

    Last edited by Martigan; Mar 11 2013 at 04:52 PM.

  17. #167
    Scale our threat reduction skills and legacies way up. Champs have ebbing; we could certainly use something like that.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    St. Louis, Missouri
    1) Combination/simplification of self-buffing. Too much precombat preparation to get best results
    2) rework/recombine of legendaries (combine focus and induction legacies)
    3) yellow trait line improvements--for the decreased DPS (due to none of the increases the other lines receive) we should get more survivability. traits could include buffs to the existing self-heals, longer duration on slows, increased parry/evade from swift-stroke, etc.
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us." --J.R.R. Tolkien (Gandalf, Fellowship of the Ring)

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    6ft under
    Combine travel skills into one that gives a prompt or something. Combine tracking skills into ONE -- if we know how to track the dead, beasts, humanoids, ect. why can't we just track them all and select our target with one skill? Not enough room on toolbar for all these skills + my hotkey'd items (pots, item buffs, ect). Clean it up.

    DPS is fine IMO.

    As for the outcry for self-heals... I don't care for any. I can usually kill my target before it even gets to me, and if I fight multiple ones there's always RoT, low cut, quick shot slow, (not to mention DF and your racial that gives you a buff, ie elf parry). Maybe buff the agile rejoiner heal a bit so it's not below par, or lower it's CD, let it stack, etc. If you really need to add a heal to the class, I'd like to see something like a cry of the hunter that gives a +morale and HoT (mirror warg's rallying howl). Honestly, though, I don't think non-tact classes should even have heals. DPS & med/heavy armour should make up for that.

    I also agree with the other posts about removing or combining the short 20s buffs like Hunter's Art and Fleetness. I have toyed with Hunter's Art (stacks twice, but the 2stack only lasts like >10s if you're hitting it every 10s, and I am usually too focused on combat and my actual DPS rotation to keep this buff up). Burn Hot should stay separate.


    Also, remove the yellow traitline "CC" idea altogether. Change it to a traitline that focuses on dealing deadly bleeds (DoTs) at the cost of DPS. I'd actually use something like this -- I have only ever used the 5 red 2 blue setup because anything yellow was pretty much useless. A bleed traitline would be so much more useful in raids: hunter would still deal damage over time, wouldn't waste as much power by not going full DPS, and threat wouldn't be as high. Just my opinion. I'd really like to see something like this implemented.

    Sidenote: any yellowlined hunter in the moors is absolute fodder unless they are track support for the group. With the above change to bleeds... this yellowtrait joke would be overturned
    Last edited by astalyn; Mar 12 2013 at 07:45 PM.
    [center][font=andalus][size=2]akara / [/size][size=1]warg[/size][IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/16iyt5f.jpg[/IMG][size=2]blays /[/size][size=1] hunter[/size]

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Austin, TX
    my august 2012 wishlist... copied here...

    ~if we could have our 2.6 speed bow back, instead of being forced to use a 2.2 speed bow, our damage WOULD be no holds barred the best single target damage in the game. i never understood why our 2-handed bows have single-handed weapon damage.

    ~remove the dual wield penalty.. ie: no more 80% mainhand/60% offhand damage… make it an even 100%/100%

    ~make current Improved Fleetness be the normal fleetness

    ~make the legendary version be a toggle, remove the focus cost and focus generation, and reduce the focus cost of pen shot and blood arrow

    ~a new ranged skill that requires 3 focus, 10 second cooldown, but consumes all focus, does more damage the more focus pips consumed.

    ~a new melee skill requiring 3 focus, 10 second cooldown, that does same damage as dazing blow, but increases the hunter’s incoming healing by 5% for 30 seconds. can stack 3 times.

    ~passive stats on our Legendary Bows. (javelins for wardens, since they suffer our same problem) all other classes have one passive stat on their second age class item, and two passive stats on their first age class item. hunters could have -% perceived threat, and -% inductions, while wardens could have +% healing and +% lifetap. (i only have a level 48 warden, so asking the warden community would offer better passives)

    ~we have 3 class traits all for set trap… one skill… please consolidate those traits, or transfer them to Trapper trait set line bonuses, and give us two new class traits to make trapper more like burgs / lm / captains. if trapper is supposed to a “backup” for when burg / lm / captain is not available, then trapper needs to allow hunters to actually fill that role. especially when burgs can do everything we can in trapper while doing MORE sustained DPS than a DPS traited hunter

    ~roll “fast draw” class trait into “bow of the righteous,” and maybe even “heightened senses”, too, and create a new red and another new yellow trait

    ~possible new yellow traits / line bonuses to replace traits above:
    ~~improved campfire: allows an in combat morale and power regen
    ~~improved purge poison: removes this from the trapper line bonus and makes it a class trait
    ~~improved set snare: turns set snare into an in combat tripwaire, still granting the slow and DoT, but allowing for the chance of a CJ and a knockdown
    ~~improved camouflage: either usable in combat or allows hunter to move for 10 - 15 seconds without breaking stealth, obviously adding a longer cooldown

    ~possible new red trait to replace fast draw:
    ~~quick shot critical hit resets swift bow

    ~improved arrow storm: split shot crit and rain of arrows crit resets both skills

    ~improved intent concentration: adds a short 10-15 second buff to damage or crit rating/magnitude, or 5 seconds of no focus costs, or resets needful haste

    ~improved low cut: applies bleed without the legacy, legacy changed to increase pulses

    ~improved scourging blow: applies bonus damage for removing low cut bleed, and applies bonus damage for removing barbed arrow bleed. still removes next barbed arrow induction

    ~improved swift stroke: removes next quick shot induction (same buff duration as improved scourging blow’s removal of barbed arrow induction)

    ~some way to have a permanent -10% attack duration by consuming a focus pip on occasion. HAHA there you go, that can be the new S:P hunter’s art bonus! could stack twice! (since many hunters don’t like the finesse buff for some strange reason )
    and my spring 2013 wishlist copy / pasted (sorry for some things being mentioned twice)

    a couple big things for me:

    1)melee skills need to do more damage (remove the dual wield penalty), and add focus (could be added to huntsman bonus (as long as huntsman is not nerfed in any way))

    2)bowmaster line should actually add to range of bow skills, to differentiate more from huntsman.

    3)trapper of foes should really have more stealth and debuff components, ie camo usable as a hunter HiPs, a new ambush style skill, the tracking skills placing either a damage mark and/or power healing mark on the tracked target. and the tracking skills should be usable in combat to provide the debuffs. and all those traits affecting only set trap need to be combined. also, bright campfire should be usable in combat while traited deep into yellow, and possibly used as a lure trap.

    speaking of melee:
    ~swift stroke usage should remove the next QS induction, like how scourging blow removes next barbed arrow induction.
    ~low cut should always apply the bleed, legacy increases the bleed
    ~scourging blow should add bonus damage for both barbed arrow bleed and low cut bleed.
    ~new melee skill requiring 3 focus, does more damage than dazing blow and adds a incoming healing buff to the player on a 10 second cooldown.

    because real hunters know they do more damage using combos while in melee range of the boss. giving us more combos can add more interesting gameplay to the hunter, and make PS derp spammers wonder why they're not doing as much damage as the pros.

    speaking of ranged:
    ~merciful shot needs to be redesigned to be like champion's merciful strike. = does more damage the more pips you have. brainstorm: in strength stance, mercy shot does more damage per pip, 50% enemy morale requirement, minimum 3 pips to shoot, consumes all pips. in precision stance, mercy shot remains with current damage, but is usable at 100% enemy morale, minumum 3 focus, removes 6 focus (usable for ranged corruption removal all the time)
    ~blood arrow should have auto-crit status, since it has a 10 second cooldown and costs morale

    second and first age bows (and javelins for wardens) need to have a passive stat like all other classes' class items (champs get power cost reductions on their 2nd age runes, minstrels get healing threat reduction, etc) hunters should get either threat reduction, induction reduction, power cost reduction, or crit rating (i personally lean toward crit rating, after champs crit rating got boosted with RoR skill upgrades)

    ~ranged block and ranged evade should be combined and renamed "finesse", just like all the other classes that had similiar legacies (RK with tactical resistance, LM and Minstrel likewise)
    ~(shooting the dead horse) power costs and crit multipliers need to be combined
    ~new legacies: +1000-2000 ranged crit rating, +1-5 bow range,

    speaking of bow range.... to make things more interesting, a hunter beyond 50 meters could actually generate less threat for himself, simply because the enemy has a harder time seeing him. and if the enemy is being tanked by a guard or warden or champ or captain, that threat could be added to the tank instead, kinda like the target is confused and thinks the tank is getting all those extra hits in, not realizing that there's a second attacker way off in the distance. if need be, this could be a new skill, or maybe even a revamped buff for hunter's art.

    and please for crying out load... make the purge poison group removal a simple standard yellow class trait, not tied to set bonuses of any kind. there are some people that want perma group removal, and others who adamantly prefer the single target, no cooldown version. a class trait would make us all happy.

    and for all classes:

    after level 50, we stop earning stats as we level (only morale and power) which results in our classes doing less damage after a level up (because of the ratings system, changing no gear) as we level up, we should still earn more might, vit, agility, will, and fate, and even enough physical or tactical mastery (varies by class) to actually ADD to our damage percentage (even if it's only.01%). LOTRO is the only RPG where my character gets WEAKER while levelling up

    also, we should have earned at least 2 more virtue slots by now.

    also, there should be more class deeds to upgrade our class traits and class legendaries to a tier 2 version of the traits.

    speaking of legendary traits... shouldn't the ONE legendary earned through the long 45-50 class quest become a passive, that we never have to trait it to get the bonus? especially considering the sheer scope of the original quests?

    it just feels like there hasn't been any real class advancement since level 60
    and a link to legendary item suggestions: http://my.lotro.com/user-113030/2012...r-advancement/
    Forgotten_Legend, The Baconnaire
    Malinon - 75 Champion | JAZRAIEL - 100 HUNTER | Taeran - 75 RuneKeeper

  21. #171
    Complete boredom of the class needs to be removed. Main reason many people i know either left, including myself, or don't play hunter anymore.

    I'll keep it to 3, but there's so much more..


    1. Put a cooldown back on pen shot & add some variety to skill options similar to the barbed arrow + heartseeker combo, but better. Ideas that come to mind,
    - stacking bleeds from barbed arrow, up to say T3
    - quick shot shot adds a + crit chance on hit (up to 3 stacks for a total ~15%), which is removed at the proc of a crit.
    - skills from stealth add additional bonus eg barbed arrow dots crit on stealth hit from camo, similar to burg.
    - It's time to make induction skills usable on the move. Adds to the reduced boredom idea of the class.

    Nothing more boring than a one button class static class.

    2. Add some fluidity to skills, get rid of silly animations & redundancy. IC, why does it need the animation? Why can't it be instant and on the move? The scourging blow barbed arrow combo that's meant to be instant induction but with the animation, takes 1sec. getting stunned during swift bow, having the first 2 shots damage get cancelled?! (been around since day 1) Why are our CC skills subject to both bpe & resist? Pick one or the other

    3. Get rid of CC as our secondary role. Not only does it have a double check on resists and bpe, we don't have any good CC. Stuns are the only good CC. Add debuffing as our secondary role, debuffs tied to skill crits? Eg crit pen reduces armour, barbed arrow reduces bpe. As with point 1, these debuffs stack up to T3.

    Implement this, i'd come back and try it. On a side note, the moors would need a revamp to keep me here.


  22. #172
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Grand 'Ole NY
    Quote Originally Posted by rannion View Post
    Run with wardens much?
    I've actually ran with a 69 warden, 64 guard and 63 champ and pulled everything when using Rain of Thorns to help them re-align themselves. Once traps broke from combat the 4 adds came after me instead of staying on the tanks while I turned my attention to the one attacking the healer. LM was the second one they went after.

  23. #173
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Honolulu, HI
    Not sure a revamp as such is really in order, tweaks sure. The hunter is in one of the best places it has been in for years--if a hunt is not tearing through on-lvl mobs like they were tissue paper they may accidently have their cosmetics equipped. I'd only ask of the class/content devs: let's not go down the Bliz route of messing with classes every three months so that the class devs can have something to do on the scrum boards. The hunter needs tweaks--like either making Bard's Arrow a regular skill or beef it up to actual legendary status and the other million little things you're obviously going to get when you request a wish list--but not a true revamp. And god knows you won't find consensus here on the forum, especially since there have only ever seemed to be two types of hunter: very capable ones and absolutely awful ones, and both will have vastly differing takes. And 110% in agreement with astalyn. We don't need more self heals. One has really gotta bungle around to get into serious trouble on landscape and if they are somehow dying in the candya** pve instances, they should take that up with their healers. That's no attempt at leetspeak, just saying, imo, this game--and class--is just that easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kajil View Post
    Just throwing it out there, but am I the only person who sees how awful the idea of a 'toggle fleetness that consumes focus' is?
    No, my friend, you are not.
    hunter rnk10-runekeeper rnk10-warleader rnk10-defiler rnk10-stalker rnk9-minstrel rnk8-reaver blackarrow burglar rnk5

  24. #174
    I already threw my 2 cents on the revamp, but I can't think of a better place to post this:

    If you are going to use a "passive" (non-directly damage) skill every time it's up, there should be a way to make it up ("on") all the time.

    Yes, I'm talking about Fleetness. It could/should be turned into a stance, or a side-effect of an existing stance.

    Game design-wise, if there's something (a power, skill, ability whatever) that everybody is going to use the whole time, then that should be designed just as that, not as something apart.

    Almost every hunter I know uses Fleetness and/or has Improved Fleetness traited (at least in PvE). I don't take from that that every hunter out there uses it or traits it, but while Fleetness should stay as a "passive" (non-directly damage) skill that you have to turn on, Improved Fleetness should be turned into a stance (or part of Precision, for example). So those who do trait Fleetness will run with the "Fleetness stance", and those who don't will have to click the Fleetness skill as usual.

    It's so strange to have a skill that improves a stance and a trait that improves a skill that improves a trait. Sounds like a mess.

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    I started this list just before RoR came out, filally i'm done:
    I agree with most of the stuff you said, but some people see the hunter as a purely blue traited DPS class, the hunter is soooo much more. Accually the yellow traited line is, other then stated by most hunters best CC-Class-Line in game, but for effective CC traits should make most CCs Instants. Also there should be some more Debuffskills etc.

    I see 3 different roles(the hunter remains a DPS class!):
    • Red Traitline – Highest burst damage and DPS in game, but requires on the long run a lot of power and is not “power independent” in boss fights.
    • Blue Traitline – Good DPS on single target, capable of moving in combat without losing much DPS and more or less power independent. Less thread generation. Make the hunter capable of kiteing mobs. Survivability.
    • Yellow Traitline – Mainly supporter, Good DPS, capable of debuffing Target, trapping, fearing and stunning foes.

    About the percentual damage:
    I think hunter got a little bit screwed up, when the statcap had been removed. The impact of strength stance has been nerved this way enormously. In My opinion the +10% of strength and +5% of hunter art should not add, physical offence, but should have an extra multiplier in front of the physical offence. So if you have 110% phys offence, you do 210% more damage. With strength you do 220% more damage, so less than 5% more in total. It should be actually 210%*1.1=231%. Then again we would have a good separation of precision and strength. The amount of aggro you generate in strength would be significantly higher that way and the stance has to be carefully chosen. It would also remove the raidhunters who perm spam penetrating Shot....

    Currently obsolete?
    • Heartseeker(Not enough dmg)
      Raise Damage by 50%, crit DMG by 50%, half induction time, 2-5 times higher cooldown, raise Powercosts by 50%-150%
    • Improved Scourging Blow (is just used to have barbed arrow without induction, the additional damage is minimal, not even a tick)
      Additional DMG: 60% Damage of remaining dots + value of 3 dots. If there is no debuff then no additional damage
    • Set Snare(Not much damage and shares cooldown with set Trap)
      Raise Damage to 300-400 every 2 seconds, movement speed – 50-70%, seperate cooldowns from ALL traps!

    • Hail of Arrows(Because of the critcap it’s worthless expect of the multiplier)
      +10% critchance (total) and +50% crit multiplier
    • Shot through the Heart(700(level * 11 * mitigations) extradmg on 85 is barely more than the dot does with on 1 tick)
      remove previous effect and Heartseeker apply's debuff:
      crippels your enemy, -10% outgoing damage, +10-15% incoming damage
      duration 30 seconds
    • Arrow Storm(Not obsolete but far too strong for a single target DPS class!)
      reduces cooldown of rain of arrow to 5 seconds
    • Rapid recovery(usually not worth traiting it since it doesn’t do much)
      agile rejoner, Improved Dazing Blow and blindside recover 30-50% faster
    • Heart of the Bard(Since Heartseeker is useless and has nearly no cooldown, and Bard arrow has quite a high one)
      same effect + apply debuff:
      incomeing heal -50% at lvl 85
    • Spring Loaded Traps(Since the +5% is applied when monster walked into the trap, not when it gets lose, short duration)
      applies a buff to all traps, even items, +5% damage when root ends. Make this buff stackable! (Would be extremly interesting useing multiple Hunters for a damage raise traited yellow!)

    Could use some improvement:
    • Bloodarrow( make it cost 15-25% of damage done AND { Double DMG and, cooldown reduced to 8 seconds OR same damage and no cooldown, costs 2 focus} )
    • Meciful Shot( increase crit multiplier additionally by 25%, do NOT remove the 50% gate, maybe even lower it to 25%, it's a finish of skill! )
    • Hunters Art in precision stance should have a higher finesse rating(then it would be useful for a yellow CC hunter)
    • Agile rejoiner: Increase heal by 25%
    • Blind side: Since it is an interrupt make it an instant.
    • Strength of Earth ( double cooldown, lasts up to 10 seconds, increase per second effect by 30% )
    • Beneath notice ( dumps 10-20% of you total agro, plus -20-30% temporary )
    • Press onward ( Raise cooldown to 8-10 mins, +40-60% effect )
    • Camouflage ( Hunter can move while in stealth, movement speed is SET to 10-20% OR add +20% damage to the first attack, please nothing more, we are not the burglars of the game )
    • Cry of the hunter ( In fight vanish, 130% of run speed, after 10 seconds goes into Camouflage, raise cooldown(know hunters just use it in raids to stun foes next to the healers to give the tank some time, which is nice, but I don’t have the feeling it was meant to be used that way )
    • Purge Poison: make it available while moving,then long animation isn’t a problem anymore

    • Barbed Fury: +30% instead of 20%
    • Cool Burn: Added like the strength multiplier
    • Improved Fleetness(See here)
    • Deep concentration: Allow hunters to use Intent Concentration on the move and makes it an instant + adds power
    • Explosive Arrow: same as before with no induction time, 150s Distracting Shot Cooldown
    • Battle Traps: should work with items and set snare

    • Ranged block and ranged evade should be combined and renamed "finesse"
    • Duration of CC(Traps, Stuns, fear) +1..5sec

    Make light oil stackable up to (3 times by different hunters). Reduce effect to 5%.

    But again the most important thing is you change how strengh Stance/Burn Hot Damage etc. is applied! With level 50 Strength Stance is really cool because you don't such a high physical mastery rating. On Level 85 the difference of additional 10% is effectively less than 5% of the total damage. That was not how the stance was intended to be. Same for Cool-Burn, Hunters-Art etc...
    Heiwyn ~ Warden ~ Belegear
    Taldeen ~ Hunter ~ Belegaer
    Dagan ~ Minstrel ~ Belegaer


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