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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010

    Hunter Changes

    The top three changes I would like to see would have to be the following:

    1) Give us some real "Oh &&&&!" skills, while Cry of the hunter is nice and all but if that is on cool down or you click it and then you have to wait till the animation is done before you gain and benefits its to late by then and your dead because medium and light armored classes might as well be wearing nothing.

    2) Heat Seeker - Induction WAY to long and does to little damage if it does not crit.

    3)Bow of the Righteous - Pretty much USELESS it only gives back a microscopic amount of power, at current cap was nice when leveling, it needs some serious scaling.

    Nick DaGrava

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Welcome Kelsan, grab a brew and be assured: We dont bite :P

    Hunter ... Where to start?

    (I) Not so legendary skills

    Bards arrow - Duration is too short, also a mob running around in fear .. not great in any group scenario, right?
    Bow of the Righteous - Power return needs to be %-based and with all due respect ~5 power return (as on BR) is a joke
    Press Onward - Interruptable, a 4s induction and a extremly weak heal/power return -> needs work

    (II) The underused skills aka the penalty bench

    - Merciful shot: I love the corruption breaker, but getting the target to 50% before I can use it?
    - Set Trap/Snare: Why a shared cooldown? Why no boost when using crafted traps, just like oils boost our dmg?
    - Barbed arrow: I feel the damage over time needs to become more mean and angry and .. common dmg bleed O.o
    - Tracking skills: They want to become one skill soooo badly! Why deny them their happy ending?
    - Split shot: I think it could be so much better, maybe a buff to rain of arrows when used or a slow? ...
    - Hunters Art: Hate to say it, but I has to go ... In its current state it just *has* to go.
    - Strengh of the Earth: When SotE grows up it wants to become a instant heal & power over time skills and not a bandaid.
    - Heartseeker: Shot throught the heart and you're to blame, you gave love a ... Point is: Induction and red dot on mobs
    - Camouflage: Remember the scene from the movie when Faramirs rangers sniped the easterling squad out of nowhere? Now look at our hide and seek skill

    (III) Trapper of Foes

    This is a tough one. Many threads tried to fix this line, few have ... well actually I dont recall a good one at the moment.

    This question would be actually worth a seperate discussion, as right now trapper of foes has more foes than followers.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    woa woa woa there.... RoA spam is a nice off-ability to do some AOE DPS just like champions can do single target...

    and in no way shape or form can we out-AOE DPS champions.

    the Lotro Wiki even states AOE as a secondary role.... I think the rain of arrows traits should be consolidated and made into something that allows us to do some AOE.

    I agree that "spamming" a skill is bad design... but I would like to keep the AOE DPS option open for AOEing large amounts of mobs when needed.... Its actually quite fun to use..... no use nerfing what does not need to be nerfed.

    Of course... we could possibly introduce a skill that makes your single target skills temporarily AOE a limited amount of targets............hmmmm....
    When there's more than 6 targets Champions dont stand a chance versus a well geared and AoE traited Hunter unless the Hunter is insanely unlucky. With 10 targets Hunters can even begin to look at 8k+ DPS, and I have yet to see Champions go much beyond 6k DPS.

    I don't care what the LotrO Wiki states, the Wiki is made by players of the game, and considering the herpa-derp state of Arrow Storm Rain of Arrows they were right to put AoE DPS as secondary - heh, they could have put it as primary without me interfering.

    Do please explain why it is fun to use that skill, except the ridiculously high DPS it brings. I can't see it.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    1. Group utility
    Clear and efficient reasons why bring hunter to group. It sucks when everything hunter does, does someone else better. Being invited to groups out of pity is no fun. Or being told to relog on alt.

    2. Hunter is DPS class, allow hunters to do it properly
    Holding down/consciously crippling our own dps rotation just to avoid aggro is no fun. Allow use of more complex rotations for hunters who desire so, which will also included threat managing skills(better then there are atm) which will result in premier dps.

    3. Make use of the fact hunter is ranged class with 40m range
    If you stand 40m away from mobs/bosses in groups, it is most likely you are not getting majority of buffs provided by other members, and you are also avoiding threat leeches from tanks.What is the point of 40m range then?

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    The Internetz
    Quote Originally Posted by Fin. View Post
    1. Group utility
    Clear and efficient reasons why bring hunter to group. It sucks when everything hunter does, does someone else better. Being invited to groups out of pity is no fun. Or being told to relog on alt.

    2. Hunter is DPS class, allow hunters to do it properly
    Holding down/consciously crippling our own dps rotation just to avoid aggro is no fun. Allow use of more complex rotations for hunters who desire so, which will also included threat managing skills(better then there are atm) which will result in premier dps.

    3. Make use of the fact hunter is ranged class with 40m range
    If you stand 40m away from mobs/bosses in groups, it is most likely you are not getting majority of buffs provided by other members, and you are also avoiding threat leeches from tanks.What is the point of 40m range then?
    Seyz!!! You live!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    All the legendary Hunters of Old are coming out of the woodwork now! Im seeing all those epic faces from the good old days...

    All hail the return of Seyz! greatest of all the Hunters!


    The entire Elendmir server is waiting for your return.

    (im seriously not being sarcastic when im saying this. E took a blow when you left because of the class conditions)
    Last edited by Lendas; Feb 25 2013 at 10:58 PM.

  6. #56
    Let's start with Legendary skills:
    It's "legendary", I would like to see it either increase our DPS or increase our survivability. Both of which are the main concerns of hunters right now. We are the definition of glass cannons. Even a well geared hunter has poor mits and good dps OR decent mits and poor dps, being in the middle doesn't offer much for us.

    BoTR, it's a joke.. even in it's live state it does not provide enough power to sustain multiple targets in sustained waves of adds in a solo or 3-man setting that doesn't involve a class spamming power returns. Simply stated, it is worthless and I only trait it because well.. honestly.. the rest of our legendaries suck more.
    Make this return morale as well as power, on crit/dev which is only 25-30% (crit) of our skills a small heal tick would be nice this woud NOT be OP. In a traditional group/raid this would be unnoticeable but solo this would provide a help to our survivability problems. You can't seriously look any one of us in the eye and say this class doesn't have solo issues.

    Press Onward, this is the joke of all jokes. I once tried to use this while solo'ing and realized how worthless it was in my 50's its even more worthless at endgame. Let's not make this another man heal.. that's not what we need. A legendary skill that hasn't scaled, and requires a long induction. Tooltip says when times are desperate.. well why should we have to wait.
    Yes no induction would be nice, or a short non-interruptable induction on the move would even be a step in the right direction. I used this back in the 50's when the heal meant something, at 85 this heal is seriously a laugh. Why would I in my right mind, root myself, and have a long induction for a skill that will have a negative net-morale heal. By the time, or even IF, i get this skill off I'm worse off than I started or worse dead.
    Make this skill scaled by making it a % of total morale. Either do away with the induction or make it so it's not interrupted. Obviously we are using this heal because we are almost dying.. why create a situation that facilitates more damage???

    Then we have a lot of skills that mean well... but they are honestly worthless.

    Agile rejoiner, let's scale this skill or change it's parry gate. At the moment it's worthless. If we are in melee range either we are going to kill or be killed before this has any weight in the fight. The legacy still doesn't make this skill useful and i don't know too many hunters that run that legacy.

    Cry of the hunter, yes great concept, poor execution. By the time the animation is over, I'm already dead, slowed, whatever. Speaking more from a pvp perspective on this skill it's pathetic. While the bubble is up, if you make it past the animation you should be immune to slows.. period. If that means taking away my run speed buff.. fine do it. I hit this skill in moors and I've already had a slow re-applied and the bubble is gone with two auto-attacks. This should be a % of your total morale not a set amount that is not much more than a morale pot.

    Heartseeker, this skill honestly makes me scratch my head. I seriously do not understand why anyone still uses this in their rotation other than everything else is on CD and they are too lazy to keep up Imp Fleet. The threat/dps of this skill is so out of whack it can't be used when you are straddling that threat-threshold. It's used to start a rotation and that is NOT where it belongs. I role a tank and whenever someone starts with this skill I have to follow it with engage so I don't lose aggro. The bright yellow crosshairs is more of a warning for the tank. This skill is meant to hit them where it hurts, perhaps a bleed applied upon crit ORRRRR give us a legacy that directly affects the crit/dev mag of this skill. Why give us a skill that has a literal warning flag and such a long induction that LOS can be lost in pvp??

    Barbed arrow, actually I use this skill a lot and I love it. I do think a bleed should be stackable and the DoT should be crit/dev dependant. Maybe as the guards have make it a trait to stack barb arrow bleed 50% of the time.

    Desperate shot, why oh why is our threat dump on an induction?? Take this away.. if a troll is coming at me let me dump my threat before he get there and one-shots me. The daze never really works against anything other than landscape critters anyway.. This is a mess of a skill that needs some work.

    Legacies.. everyone runs the same ones and nothing else. The three crit % and then stat legacies. Everything else is almost not worth it.

    It's late and I'm too tired to go through every skill that is just out of whack. Basically the hunter has 3 different skills that all do the same thing and only 1 of them actually works as intended. Maybe this is because we have 2 traitlines that barely function and a third that is actually laughed at when slotted. No, seriously.. when people say "yellow-line hunter" it brings about roaring laughter. We are the laughing stock of classes and I see why. We are a DPS class that isn't even really that good at what we do. Our secondary role.. wait.. we don't have one of those. So why can't we be good at what we are supposed to do. Track foes, let us do it mounted, please. Hide in the bushes, give us some kind of buff from camo.. anything. I would get into what's wrong with the yellow line but honestly, I've never even used it once. I think that speaks volumes in itself. Most hunters hear couldn't rattle off yellow line traits, because well.. they are garbage. Our legendaries have been nerfed into the ground, and we have no viable way to really stack mitigations. Show me a hunter with mits near cap and I'll show you a hunter that has pathetic dps. Will based classes have their main stat provide mits. Might based classes give enough vitality on every piece of gear to get near cap, but agility based classes are left chasing mythical gear that provides them some protection. I'm sorry but + raw morale is nearly worthless to me, give me vitality, please.
    ~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
    ~Karukh R10 Warg, Prisonshank R6 Reaver~ Elendilmir
    **Mac User**

  7. #57

    Thumbs up

    So, first, thanks for inquiring. Seriously, we've waited for that for at least two years now.

    Disclaimer: my hunter is my main, with 11 months cumulated playtime, both PvE and PvMP, played regularly in DPS, CC, and off-tanking roles, so I *may* be a *bit* subjective in what I say.

    PvE-wide, we're not in really bad shape, and I would be very disapointed with a class "simplification" when our basic role is already pretty simple so:
    * Don't reduce the numbers of ranged/mellee attacks.

    Still, some skills are truely redondant, namely:
    * passages of foes/nature/shadow: they share a common cooldown anyway, having one skill would not change anything
    * Set Trap/Set Snare: If you really search for skills that can be merged, those are possible candidates. Add the Snare/DoT after root break for example?

    Also, we had a role, back in the days (lvl60,65) of ranged tanking. Think "the vile maw", or Cargaraf at Barad Guldur.
    So the hunter taking the hits could not be the one that DPS the most, but the one that specifically built a gear set for it. We lost that in RoI, were threat "penalty" was removed. I would like some comparable mecanism to be re-added.

    Some people have already talked about our yellow traitline, it's one I regularly use, and yes, mainly for the capstone trait, that's a problem.
    * A total revamp of the yellow traitline, except for the capstone, is something long awaited
    * it should also add a viable role to cc. A lot of end game content don't depends on cc *at all*, so for now, a trapper-optimized gear can't be anything other than a second-hand one. This should change! For example:
    * Add some debuffs, less potent and/ore different than lore-masters one (because I don't want a LM nerf ), like the hit-chance debuff we have on our light oil for example
    * Make it a survavibility-threat-cc line, so we trade DPS for *real* survavibility. And we may have our old ranged-tank role back

    A lot have already been said on our legendary traits, so beeing quick:
    * Bow of the righteous power regen was already two low in RoI. I openned a lot of tickets about it, in every Beta phase since then. On year and half later, this is a least modified: the power regen is reduced to 1/3. For me, RP-speaking, this trait functionnality is now included in Fate, I can be suppressed totally, and replaced with something else. anything usefull (a forced aggro skill, so we can help our healer better than now?)
    * Press onward: make it instant, with the morale restore in percentage of (base?) max morale. Make it possibly crit. or remove the trait, replace with something usefull, and add the current skill to our base skillset. Current version was already pretty bad before the power restore nerf, and did not scale since U2, level 65, last revamp.
    * Bard's arrow: make it instant, maybe with focus cost. Btw, same for distracting shot (or at least reduce the cast time to be similar to quick shot)

    PvMP-wide, it's another story.
    As of now we are, pretty much, dead meat with a bow.
    Limited mobility, no survavibility, can't heal ourselves, can't do anything against BA's MT, can't parry/evade on most wargs while having hard time to gain distance and beeing squishy in mellee.
    But it's not that simple, because even like that, in raids, we provides a large amount of DPS, so a too important buff to ourselves would do horrible imbalance. Some possibilities:
    * Stop disabling our *only* survavibility skill, Desperate Flight, in moors. Replace it with something usefull, like a *temporary* in-combat stealth, giving ourselves some seconds to move and be safe.
    * Makes Press Onward an instant cast, as said before. As of now, it's impossible to use it in real fight, and btw we takes more damages during the cast than it heals, CC'ing while casting it beeing impossible since audacity.
    * A survavibility traitline as proposed above.
    * Increase Cry of the Hunter bubble, by twice at least, or a fraction of our (base?) max morale. Provides a (short, 5s max) immunity to snares.
    * Something to compense Moving Target. *Temporary* (20s?) tactical damage, for example, on a 5-10m CD
    * Some creeps (wargs) have the ability to be doing damage as tactical source, thus beeing not sensible to parry/evade, and then, our little parry-based heal HoT is useable at all. Provides us a possibility to use it even if we don't parry. With a CD, with a critical strike on some melee skill, etc...

    And, to be complete, some ideas, already heard now and then:
    * Make purge poison useable on the move, or at least, remove the animation root
    * While we are at it, remove *all* animation roots, like swift bow one. It kills us to often when we need to move and can't (LMs could talk about that to)
    * Heart Seeker could have a specific critical multiplied, or enhanced critical chance, like some DPS skills have on the minstrel. Or increase base damage, reduce induction time, anything, but it's not really usefull as of now: 90% of time you do more danage in the same time with swift bow+pen shot+two auto-attacks, it also cost less power and half of the action can be done on the move.
    * The untraited fleetness skill have no utility. It could be if it did not cost 6 focus. Why not reduce this to 3, if not removing it completely? This would help both our mobility and survavibility with the current bonus, and makes the traited version way more powerfull.
    * Distracting Shot now gives us a cool threat management tool. But it's to ineffective. In fact, it's only really usefull now if used with the reset effect available in PvMP set, making it on a 1m cooldown. Add this possibility in a trait? Maybe on "Swift Recovery"? Or simply reduce distracting shot CD to 1m if not traited?
    And, a stated above, make at least the traited version instant.

    Sorry, that was quite long, and maybe hard to read since english is not my native language, still I hope this may be useful.

  8. #58
    Something I know I could use would be a combine root/daze/stun/whatever and sprint. (probably to replace one of our lesser legendary traits like bard's arrow). Something that would allow us to get back at range again when something tries to take us down in melee. Also of course some more efficient heals.
    The logical order would be light armors as the squishiest, medium armors as ok but not strong enough to tank and heavy armors able to tank. Due to their heals, light armors tend to last longer when beaten on that hunters. Don't get me wrong though, I believe part of this is due to some classes being straight out overpowered (minstrels/wardens for instance).

    Still though the hunters should be the dps class for raids and should have reasonable survivability when giving up some dps. One of the things that I find a bit worrying is that burglars have been more wanted for recent raids (burglar-stacking for dps in ToO) and that champs with their AoE dps is coming a bit too close to hunter's dps at single target.

    On top of this, a skill that allowed us slightly better aggro-management would be good. Cutting the cd of Beneith Notice in half would do fine for me.
    Duskdancer, warg: If found please return to Gwairin, lvl 85 hunter in Evernight

  9. #59
    1. permanent 0 focus loss on movement traited 4 blue
    2. imp fleetness focus cost reduced or duration extended to 1minute.
    3.Skill that increases parry/partial parry in a fashion similar to BAs.
    4.Inductoinless press onward
    5.Cry of the hunter slow immunity 10 seconds
    6.Increase morale value strength of earth regen, and make it a HoT/PoT nonchannel skill so you aren't completely rooted and useless.
    7.Increased morale value from agile rejoiner
    8.25% chance low cut slow removal
    Last edited by Priestetute; Feb 26 2013 at 12:51 AM.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    A blue name post! I almost thought I was unconscious or under some form of very late night delirium, but no, a real, living, breathing dev (typing and writing would probably be better, but you get the idea)! As per your request, I'll attempt to throw out three suggestions that I think we could benefit from most (however, many of the things already said are things we are in dire need of). Each suggestion is listed numerically, with sub-points to clarify specifics.

    1). A clear distinction between trait setups and roles.
    I've leveled both a champion and burglar quite recently and they have very, very distinct differences in trait setups, what skills are useful, and how they perform in combat, even making some skills have totally different effects depending on traiting and stances.

    a.) Suggestions to remedy this: Reconfigure yellow traiting to be debuff-centralized, similar to the Gambler trait line of burglar, with many possible effects and outcomes depending on skills used. Certain skills, like penetrating shot or barbed arrow, apply 'state' effects, similar to the crippling bite on a warg. When these states are present on a mob or target, usages of other skills will have a chance to trigger specific effects. For example, theoretically give barbed arrow a 'pierced calf' state effect on the target, a hit of low cut after this effect is applied has a chance to trip the target and trigger a CJ/fellowship maneuver/knockdown, similar to the warg's crippling bite and pounce combo. Penetrating shot could apply a 'weakened armor' effect, with a chance to apply a debuff that increases incoming damage on the target when hit again with penetrating shot. Blood arrow could apply an effect on devastating critical along the lines of 'shaken' (due the huge damage it puts out, I'd be a bit frightened too) that has a chance to increase target's attack duration and miss chance when more ranged critical hits are landed.

    a2.) As a secondary suggestion, make hunter live up to it's name, a hunter, a predator, and guerrilla, modify some of the previous yellow line traits to improve stealth and possibly even make camouflage usable while on the move while offering large buffs to damage when coming out of stealth. A hunter is something that outsmarts and stalks its prey, we should be able to move about undetected and launch devastating attacks when we have the element of surprise, similar to a burglar, but at range. The elves the class is modeled after used hit-and-run tactics and stealth to their advantage, picking their enemies apart until they were decimated and confused, why can't we play as our role models?

    b.) Blue line is largely fine the way it is, however, there could be modification to induction skills based on stance. Precision is the de facto 'blue line stance', maybe give it an inherent -% attack duration buff to counter the 'invisible' miss chance buff removal nerf, that would pair nicely with the -induction time traiting that usually goes along with it. Precision could also provide induction skills with a lower chance to be b/p/e'd on the grounds of the hunter 'focusing more on his target' while being grounded in one spot to sit out an induction.

    c.) Red line is in need of some polishing. Increase crit multipliers/damage output on single hits to be up-to-par with the DPS blue line can put out, but with slower skill rotations. This might be accomplished by modifying the current trait-set bonuses and phasing out such useless traits as 'Shot Through the Heart' to add things like debuffs or bleeds on some skills when they crit (similar to the Deep Strikes Champion trait), give Strength stance a chance to apply an incoming ranged damage debuff to further augment the slow attack speed, make Heartseeker useful by increasing its crit/dev multiplier, chance to crit/dev, and possibly giving it a knockdown/stun/fear on crit/dev.

    2.) A bit of house cleaning, consolidate redundant/clutter skills/legacies.

    a.) Combine all tracking skills into one skill, with a mob type filter. No induction would be nice also, maybe an addition to the heightened senses trait? Considering the cooldowns on all three tracking skills are mutual, it's kind of sloppy to have three separate skills for it.

    b.) Put similar-effect legacies in all-in-one legacies. Focus/induction threat down should be something along the lines of 'Ranged threat down' rather than two separate legacies. Same for power cost legacies (-% ranged power cost) and crit multiplier legacies (+% ranged critical). Considering that we have a single 'melee crit multiplier %' legacy, having a combined ranged crit multiplier legacy only makes sense on top of that.

    c.) Combine 'trap/snare' traits in yellow-line into one single trait to allow for room for more useful traits. The 'bonuses' that trap traits give can be accomplished largely by crafted/consumable items that were previously unavailable (some of these with even better effects than the bonuses the traits offer) and definitely don't justify an entire two-three traits all to themselves.

    d.) Get rid of the awful 'rooting' animations on camouflage, intent concentration, Burn Hot, purge poison, tracking skills, various induction ranged skills, etc. There are so many skills that hunters have that create an artificial lag that is just as likely to get us killed as real lag. Having to stop moving to use the skill is perfectly fine, but forcing us to stand in place to act out an animation for a second or two that could be done on the move makes a lot of those skills unappealing to want to use at all in a lot of situations (specifically PvMP).

    e.) Scale our skills and legacies! Press Onward and Bow of the Righteous are the most un-legendary legendary traits in existence at the moment. The induction on Press Onward is far too long to be of any use anymore, in both the current PvE and PvMP climate where speed and movement are paramount, on top of the fact that by the time the heal goes off, you'll more than likely be dead. Bow of the Righteous's power return is just.. unacceptable. Strength of the Earth could use a bit of a boost too, as well as Agile Rejoinder, they need to at least slightly on-par with other classes self-heal skills, since there are many times when a hunter finds himself solo, as much as any other class would. Threat down legacies also need to be scaled to reduce threat on a level proportionate to our current DPS, they're currently useless in comparison to other legacies.

    3.) Medium armor mitigation boost and survivability skills.
    Hunters are ridiculously squishy shells of their former selves. We need a universal boost to mitigation and something to allow us to hang on for those additional few seconds for a healer to get to us or for us to squeeze in those last few skills.

    a.) For the 'just a few seconds skill', something that doesn't eliminate us from combat completely (Desperate Flight) and isn't a pathetic excuse for a survival skill (Cry of the Hunter) would be nice, along the lines of maybe the Reaver's Wrath skill, with each skill use we gain back a % of morale/power.

    b.) The 'oh shi-' button, a skill that drops perceived threat (like beneath notice) and also returns a large % of our morale/power all at once, possibly resetting some skills while we're at it (Cry of the Predator, Distracting Shot, Dazing Blow, Press Onward if traited, Rain of Thorns, Bard's Arrow). This would be a viable option for both PvE and PvMP, allowing us a large heal as well as the threat drop we need when Beneath Notice has been burnt and the tank needs a second to reacquire aggro.

    c.) The alternative to a heal 'oh shi-' button, is the obvious +% evade/parry chance buff. Another alternative might also be a -% ranged/melee/tactical incoming damage buff for a decent duration, say 25 seconds and 35 seconds with a trait. -% incoming damage would not negate all damage we receive or be imbalanced, but would provide seconds to get ourselves back on the level when we're out of buttons.

    Yes, this is a lengthy bit of suggesting, but hopefully it can provide at least some groundwork or ideas for the future, as well as all the other great suggestions here.

    In summary, hunters are in a very bad place when compared to other classes. We are in need of a universal DPS boost, universal survival boost, and some housecleaning on redundant skills. Hunter is a class with many 'bandages' and no real 'surgery' done to fix it or better it, and is quickly falling behind the others. There is no longer anything hunter can do that no other can, and our primary role, DPS, is becoming lackluster in light of other classes. We have two traitlines completely centralized on single-target DPS, yet we can be outdone by classes that can specialize on three different roles when traited correctly. Hunter needs to become a needed member of the fellowship/raid group, as well as a powerful solo presence in PvMP if played correctly, none of which it is currently.
    Last edited by Kajil; Feb 26 2013 at 05:48 AM.
    [center]RIP Character signature generator, June 2013.[/center]
    [center]Theiol, Fervar, Turthonn, and Vanka, [i]retired LOTRO[/i]|Croue, Folter, [i]Rift - Shatterbone shard[/i][/center]

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Moscow, Russia
    1) Revamp our legacies..
    Power cost reductions and critical multipliers should be 2 legacies instead of 4, we don't really got a choice atm, we need to maximise our dps, so there is no room left for power cost at all. And add some new legacies, something blood-arrow based for example.

    2) Scale properly to 85 all our old skills/traits, everybody mentioned them here already, i wont do copy paste to save your time

    3) Do something with Trapper of Foes, we don't have a content for that CC line at all, make it based on strong debuffs, so 1 hunter can trait it for raids and be very useful with it.

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2009

    Hunter Revamp

    1 Definitely consolidate the legacies. Crit Multiplier. Threat down. no matter if focus or induction. This also can give the way to adding a few new legacies. Cry of the hunter bubble magnitude (giving more then 1.5k health on it.) as an example.

    2 HEARTSEEKER - I want to love heartseeker. When the induction was lowered, the damage it did was also lowered, so the amount of damage to time was still awful. Get rid of the aiming reticles. Like others have said, a creep can just hide behind a tree when they see it on them. Maybe combined with the critting from stealth skill this can make hunters feared in the moors again.

    3 Yellow line I play as a raiding hunter. Even when leveling, I never remember using traps to how much the yellow line wanted us to use traps. I want yellow line as a debuff-buffing-cc line. Give us a burg like skill for incoming damage. A debuff to incoming healing. etc. A debuff to mitigations, etc.. Ideally you can have a DPS Hunter and a debuffing hunter in your raid.

    I do agree that hunters should be king of ranged dps, if not ALL dps, because we dont do anything else in a group besides DPS. Most other classes have secondary roles they excel at, and then can dps just as good if not better then a lot of hunters. Either give us higher dps, or a viable secondary role for a group.
    Melliot - Hobbit Hunter and many alts :)

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    1. Consolidate the focus and induction legacies on power, threat and crit. Increase the cost to compensate for the consolidation if needed.

    2. Our legendary traits are in need of looking at. One I would particularly like looked at is Bow of the Righteous. With the changes to update 10, the power return has been reduced so far as this skill is a shade of what it once was and probably should be a trait rather than taking up a legendary slot. Should it remain a legendary skill though, it needs a slight boost. If a power return boost is out of the question (with the changes to fate coming), perhaps add a small morale return with every hit?

    3. Personally I feel the red and blue lines are pretty solid at the moment. The yellow line though should be changed/tweaked with higher level content in mind. Simply put, with the CC immunity prevalent in instances (on bosses) and the fact that the Burglar and Lore-master both fill that role better than any hunter, it might be time to take a look at the line as a whole.


  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by sirwillow View Post
    Second- please don't make changes with PvMP solely in mind. PvMP is NOT the main focus of the game, and it shouldn't be the main focus of the class overhaul.
    This, I think, is an important point. I know it won't please some people and some people spend most of their time there, but changes should centre around PvE and raiding.

    My changes reflect alot of what others are saying:

    1. Yellow line changed from CC to debuff/DoT which I think will compliment the dps/crit lines we have (think RK fire line with poisons/diseases)

    2. Rescale skills to be relevant to lvl 85 both in terms of dps and induction/CD (this includes legendary skills)

    3. Either increase survivability or increase threat management.

    Think what a hunter means to you, to me it means a character that can kill/maim/confuse a monster with the help of nature and other creatures.

  15. #65
    As you might have seen from other posts I have made, I am quite disillusioned that making suggestions helps so very little and I fear that many players feel the same and thus do not reply to this post with their concerns.

    The one goal I would like with this revamp is to feel useful in groups again and be asked to come along in groups.
    I don't want to hear "um, can you bring something other than your hunter?" or feel like I am deadweight in the group.
    I have yet to be in the Isengard 3-mans or any of the U9 instances. There simply has not been any use for me on my hunter.

    Anyways, some things I would like to see changed;

    The first is to our LIs.
    Currently we have doubled up on several of them like crit - induction and crit - focus, or power cost induction and focus.
    The other classes do not have this, so basically our LIs end up being twice as expensive as other classes.
    There are legacies to specific skills in all classes of course, and that is okay, but this double dip leaves us at a disadvantage compared to others.
    This issue is also made worse because these four "majors" are more or less must haves. (And probably the main reason - if we go by the parsed dps posts - that we cling to the 3rd / 4th spot on the dps race).

    Second point is our medium armour;
    It is too weak compared to the heavy armour. According to posted numbers it is amazing how less damage a mob does against heavies compared to medium. As a result many hunters buff up their vitality to insane levels just to avoid being essentially one-shoted by mobs.
    I do not know whether all classes medium armours are treated the same, but honestly, the hunters medium armour feels so much worse than say a champ wearing the same medium armour.

    A third point is threat generation;
    Many hunters have to go say max 70-75% dps (e.g. auto-attack and QS only) just to avoid taking aggro from even a good guardian/warden. When checking the parsers afterwards, the aggro is grabbed even the hunter do far less dps than the champion. So I would like to see that our aggro per point of damage be adjusted.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Thumbs up

    Another thing:

    Make Hunter's Art a viable skill!

    Currently it works like this:
    -In Strenght: Adds +5% ranged damage for 20 seconds. Costs 1 focus. Costs 53 power.
    -In Precision; Adds 1032 finesse for 20 seconds. Costs 1 focus. Costs 53 power.
    -In Endurance: Adds 296.4 ICPR for 20 seconds. Costs 1 focus. Costs 48 power.

    Ok the problems with this:
    -To keep the buff(s) up, we have to click the skill every 20 seconds. It's not fun to do.
    -It costs 1 focus per 20 seconds. When we click it we already lower our DPS, just to click it. Then instead of a focus skill we can use to do great damage, this skill consumes 1 focus so we can't use another focus skill instead.
    -We don't need more finesse from this skill. Currently my hunter got almost 22% finesse like most hunters, having more is not needed.
    -ICPR BOOST! Did anyone do their math when they gave this an ICPR boost? 296.4 ICPR / 3 = 98.8 power. Costs 48 power. Which means this skill gives 50.8 power every 20 seconds, but it also costs 1 focus per 20 seconds. Ridiculous!

    My suggestion to a new Hunter's Art:
    Make the skill a buff that tiers up while in combat every time you press it. It will still have it's cooldown/or only useable on-defeat. But costs 2 focus instead. Max tier will be 4.

    Strenght will add +2% damage per Hunter's Art.
    Precision will add +1% crit chance and +1% critical multiplier per Hunter's Art.
    Endurance will add -1% threat and -1% power cost per Hunter's Art.

    Variation are possible! So you can have 2x the buff from Strenght, 1x from Precision and 1x from Endurance for example.
    You will just need to change stance ofcourse and use the Hunter's Art in the stance you want.

    The buff will last up to 9 seconds out of combat. Like Red Haze from champions.

    This will make Hunter's Art viable. Everyone will try to keep their buffs up in the long fights. But every kind of player will want different buffs. To have the max tier you have spend 8 focus and at least spend 160 seconds in combat or killed 8 mobs. So it won't be overpowered.

    That's it, thanks. (copy before i get logged off)

  17. #67
    I think the effect of Hunter's Art should be decoupled from the stance you are in, I like the idea of the stackable buffs as it makes the rotation more involved and slightly more skillful. Why not have 3 stackable effects for hunters art, with the one which is applied being dependent on which skill was used most recently i.e. quick-shot, penetrating shot, or swift-bow... Much like RKs affinity is set by the skill which they used last but in this case only for the hunter's art skill.

    Maybe swift-bow effect could reduce the hunters inductions, quick shot effect could reduce the hunters threat generation and penetrating-shot could apply a debuff to the target being hit... These could be tiered up by stacking the same effect or the hunter could mix-and match all 3 but at lower tiers. Also, add some damage back to hunters art to make it an attack (even if slightly weak).

    I think this simple change to one skill could really change the hunter rotation and allow a lot of flexibility depending on what the situation requires... For example they could go full -threat buff, or just go in to machine-gun mode by stacking the -inductions buff. Presumably any debuffing effect would not stack between hunters so if more than 2 were in a raid they would have to co-ordinate a bit on who would be keeping the debuff on the target etc.

    This change would also give hunters 3 things they have been asking more for a long time i.e. more damage, potent threat reduction, raid-wide utility.... The only caveat is that they cant have all 3 at once!!!
    Last edited by Bhoris_they_spider; Feb 26 2013 at 05:27 AM.

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Teh interwebz
    Tried to post this 3 times last night, gave up, hopefully the forum's had it's morning coffee now and won't be so stroppy...........

    Anyway, I see a few people talking about hunters art and some form of ranged mark, this sounds good. Now, the thing is, this particular tech is already coded and in the game which would save the dev valuable doughnut time. In one (or possibly two) session plays in the epic story you get to play a ranger and/or an elf, if memory serves correctly, one of the skills the session play character has is to put a mark on a mob which causes the next ranged attack to do massive damage, I think (someone will now for definite I'm sure) that you had to be stealthed to start the chain, how this would translate to PvE would be as follows ...

    1) Camouflage (usable on the move, not as good as burg one, more effective in "foresty areas")

    2) Hunters Art marks one target

    3) Super-duper-hyper-mega-what-Heart-seeker-should-be ranged shot on target.

    Longish induction on bow shot, longish cool down, but these can be reduced via legacies and traitlines.

    I was Bhorn, bhorn to be wild... dum-de-dum-de-dum.

  19. #69
    Hi kelsan, nice to 'have' you

    My wishlist, consider some of, please:

    - scaled, instant Press onward, usable on the move
    - consolidated crit, power, threat legacies
    - Burn Hot usable on the move
    - Cry of the hunter - i reduced usage of this skill to slow removal, bubble is not existant (1 hit), slow immunity is needed, replace it with speed buff
    - give us one stun with knockdown when critted (distrating shot or dazing blow)
    - low cut - replace bleed chance to slow removal chance (with legacy)
    - new parry/evade skill comparable to BAs Moving Target
    - i love idea of Improved fleetnes as toggle skill, but it would be to mutch, but i love it
    - slows from quick shot and barber arrow stackable
    - increase base bleed dmg on barbed arrow or increase duration
    - remove for the love of god yellow marker from heartseeker, it is no longer big hitter, no need to alarm target.
    - increased dmg from stealth
    - increased DoT on Set Snare
    Last edited by giboosc; Feb 26 2013 at 05:54 AM.
    Gilrain: Keeslanaff - r12 RVR
    Withy: Keeslaff - r13 HNT, Cometodaddy - r9 BA, Warglaff -r7 STK

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Wales, UK
    1. Press Onward scaled, instant cast and possibly useable on the move. (Similar mechanic to uruk heal.)

    2. Cry of the Hunter gives 10s of slow immunity upon casting - I have found myself slowed almost immediately after using CotH in EM which is irritating.

    3. Yellow line altered, with the inclusion of a trait that allows camo to be useable whilst moving, with an increased stealth level and decreased movement speed.

  21. #71
    First, welcome to this forum Kelsan! It is nice to know someone is here to listen to us and our complaints .

    I am not a Moors player, so all I will write here is exclusively about PvE hunter.
    I will start by stating the 3 main things bothering me right now.

    1- Legendary traits

    The three capstones are actually nice (it could be argued that untraited Fleetness is close to useless), the other four are rather underwhelming:
    - Nothing legendary about an induction fear (Bard’s Arrow)
    - Bow of the Righteous never scaled with our power costs and is becoming irrelevant with U10
    - Rain of Thorns is a 3min CD, so a situational skill that is tied to our almost nonexistent secondary role does not feel “legendary” to me.
    - Press Onward is a long induction (so leaving us vulnerable) for mediocre returns at best.
    You could think of an improved Heart Seeker (reducing induction time and/or feeding focus, making it into a focus shot, …). One of this skill’s problems is that it is less damaging than a “Swift Bow –Penetrating Shot” sequence (for example), while being less reliable and at least just as long.

    2- Legacies

    It has been mentioned before, but it feels redundant to have separate legacies for induction/focus skills (critical damage, power costs, threat reduction). It could be a nice improvement to merge them.

    3- Secondary role

    It seems that our intended secondary role is currently Crowd Control. While the possibility to permanently control from 2 to 3 enemies with Distracting Shot (traits and legacies), Bard’s Arrow and traps is appealing, “Adaptation” in newer raids means this is useless although I have to confess I never had the chance to use this in any instanced content (never ran Ost Dunoth on level).
    I must say I would be fine with having only one role (DPS) in raids, but being able to fill some other spot in instances (3 or 6man) would be interesting.

    4- Bonus : how about some mobility ?

    I would be fine having 3 trait lines that would go like :
    - Main (more efficient) dps : much like current gameplay
    - Secondary role (TBD)
    - On the move DPS : something that allows to hit things while never having to stop running, whithout having to refresh a focus-expensive "stance" like Imp.Fleetness. In my opinion, this would definitely have to be less powerfull in terms of raw DPS than the "main" trait-line, but could be usefull in some situations (PvE or PvMP).

    Now, some comments about some things I have read on this thread and in other hunter related threads.

    - First, I would start by saying that our ability to DPS, in a raid environment, is actually fine.

    No, we are certainly not out-dps’ed by rune keepers. No, we are not constantly out-dps’ed by burglars and champions. In Orthanc, several hunters (myself included) have shown that hunters were on par with champions and “unseen” burglars at lvl 75 : see this thread. Champions now have more single target potential than us due to the captain’s changes: they have more “attack duration” buffs than before, and those benefit champions much more than us. But we still have the 40m range, and yes a lot of mechanics favor ranged damage over melee damage.

    - Second, NO, hunter’s dps is NOT just Penetrating Shot “derp-spam”.

    Going with five blue traits, Improved Fleetness with Faron buff (or Huntsman at U10) and spamming PS like a mad man sure is efficient, and it is easy, but it is not the only way to do good damage.
    In fact it is not even the best one: Hunters who reported the best results in Orthanc T2 at lvl 75 or dummies at 85 (Yelk, Farasillion and myself) all went with 4 red traits equipped (even 5 for me in some situations).
    Hunter’s class difficulty is marked as “Basic”, so it is fine by me that we have an easy way to do good dps (specifically: going full blue). However, I like that there exist another way, more efficient, that requires a little bit more application. I like that you can be better if you “work” towards it.

    - I see a lot of people complaining about Merciful Shot.

    Untraited, it is still nice to have for the corruption removal part. With Swift Mercy slotted, it can be deadly: the possibility to “tune” the focus cost at which you decide to fire it really gives an opportunity to fine-tune rotations or bursts at some points of the fights.

    - Our threat management tools are fine the way they are.

    Some will complain that we do not have a full threat wipe (unlike burglars) or partial threat transfer (unlike champions). So what? If aforementioned classes grab agro, being melee means they die before they even have the time to use their awesome threat management skills. We have an immediate skill that goes “Dear tank, you have 10seconds to do something or I die” and Distracting Shot, which you have the time to cast if you are not at close range.
    To people complaining that you cannot go nuts without grabbing agro from tanks: when we are required to go all out, tanks actually can hold agro, it just takes coordination. Wardens can generate a crazy amount of threat; guardians don’t (unless going with a critical rating build with blue capstone) but have workarounds such as Engage and Challenge the Darkness.
    To sum up, a good hunter can only show its value if playing with a good tank, and if they are talking. Anyway, tanks have as much problems holding agro from good hunters than from other good dps classes. If there is a problem with threat management, it is on the tanking classes’ end.
    Last edited by Gabli; Feb 26 2013 at 07:45 AM.
    Gabrediel, Original Challenger of Sarouman | Gabramir, Original Challenger of Gothmog

    Unquale - Sirannon [FR]

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsan View Post
    What I’d like to get from you all are the top 3 things you’d most like to see changed about the Hunter.
    (about myself: hunter was my first 'main' class which I stopped playing because it was too popular. No matter how many complaining topics appear on this forum and how loud hunters cry, hunters are always around and are still good at dps.)

    There is only one major change I want to see:

    Viable secondary role.

    CC skills are there already, and they are powerful when used properly. However, most players who choose a hunter class do not want to sacrifice their dps for some vague crowd-control abilities. I observed multiple times when a hunter in a group (e.g. ToO t1 pugs) would refuse to trait trapper line + capstone because he did not have that capstone. First few times this ignorance was shocking for me, later just upsetting.

    We know that champions have tanking as a second role, and RKs are awesome healers (this role is not even secondary, but second-main). Finding a healing RK is easy nowadays, finding a champion who desires (and is geared) to tank is tough but realistic. Finding a hunter who can/wants do anything other than pew-pew is nearly impossible.

    I don't know if buffing further the Trapper line would make any good. CC is not as required in instances as tanking/healing... Maybe add stronger debuffs to that line?
    Ishtarien - Captain
    Ishtari - Rune Keeper / Ishtarel - Hunter / Lunasa - Minstrel
    Ishtaridas - LRM 105 / Ishti - BRG 105 / Cabernetta - GRD 105 / Merlotta - CHP 105 / Medovinus - BRN 105
    The Mellowship || Eldar -> Evernight

  23. #73
    Haven't read everything, sorry if I'm repeating.
    Some ideas, don't know if any are possible, all a bit unrealistic maybe. Generally, I'd like to see more variety in choosing your build/playstyle, more dps/better aggro management to make us wanted, and better survival options in the moors. Please don't make us too strong, just tweak it a little. We are in a good place levelling up, but a bad place at end game.

    So how about...

    - different types of bow, e.g. short bow that is light and fast, with less range maybe, or you have a longbow for big ranged hits. A sling for hobbits that gives a stun
    - different types of arrow instead of tomes in our class slot, e.g. giving slightly increased bleed, reduced induction, some kind of minor buff/debuff depending on what type we slot
    - camouflage - make it so we can move a very short distance in stealth, i.e. enough to get round a corner and line-of-sight something. It's a fun skill to use, but really frustrating when you can't quite get line-of-sight. Don't give us movement, but on a timer!
    - something like burg skill where we can 'hide' another player in stealth
    - aimed shot - a skill where the damage you do depends on how long you aim first, from a split second 'quick shot' up to a 5 second 'heartseeker' thing. It'd take skill, and player choice, to get it right.

    - red line: solo levelling, stand still, big hits
    - blue line: light and fast, mobile (yes, I've always liked blue). PvMP.
    - yellow: raiding = reduced threat, inductionless CC, debuffs that compare to LM
    OR yellow = PvMP less dps, more survivability, inductionless CC
    OR yellow = boar hunter - you have a heavy spear instead of a bow, and various melee/short range skills, better armour mits. Don't care if wardens get annoyed, I'm not talking about a tanking stance.

    -'you catch the scent of a beast' - warning when a warg is 1m behind us. In the moors I'm often dead before the stun wears off, and I don't want a massive morale/mits boost because that'd make us OP. But how come my uber-hunter doesn't noticce when there are 6 wargs creeping up on him?
    - love the idea of mounted tracking, and all creature types in one list. Can you give us the option to filter out npc mobs in moors?
    Make us welcome in 3 mans, preferably by upping our dps slightly.
    -ranged interrupt
    -hunting - have crafting recipes that require meat/skins from particular beasts in the forest (like those 1 morale deer etc), which hunters can hunt for

    Other things depend on what is happening in the game generally. No point giving us better debuffs and so on if mobs will be immune. Can you make instances where hunters are a bit useful? Like for tracking stealth mobs, or using campfire to regen, or just something so that people think 'oh good, we've got a hunter'.

    And most importantly, give hobbits a racial +2% on bows. Just because.

  24. #74
    In no particular order :-

    1. CoTH - 10 sec slow (not stun) immunity - slows are the killer in PVMP.

    2. HS - remove X, boost damage, reduce CD - yes I want the lot.

    3. BH - useable on the move.

    4. IC - useable on the move.

    5. PO - insta cast - on the move.

    6. BN - reduce CD a bit.

    7. Merge the criit multi legs and boost them to 50% a la chimps.

    1-5 - Thats the moors fixed at last - we would be balanced - like BAs/Spiders etc.

    6&7 - Threat dump CD lowered and DPS boost.

    p.s. Would also like Poison Removal on the move and a ranged knockdown chance similar to Headshot - thanks Santa

    No need to spam track - it's in a tin in the cupboard.

  25. #75
    Forget the walls of text:-
    No new skills are required , just a major adjustment to our dps and mitigations.

    Heartseeker should be THE top tier attack in the game and feared by opponents that see the cross-hairs-not just laughed at!!


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