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  1. #1
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    A house in every neighborhood?

    With the housing update coming, I realized that it would be cool if you could own a house in every instance.

    Like one in the Shire, Bree, Thorin's Gate, Duillond.

    also, maybe a kin house in each one too?

    What are your opinion?
    Last edited by JakeTheEmerican; Feb 20 2013 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Id really much prefer houses in the actual game world, even if its the npc houses that we can take over for our own. Housing instances just always turn out to be empty, depressing places.

  3. #3
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    That's true, but I think it would be more limited that way.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JakeTheEmerican View Post
    That's true, but I think it would be more limited that way.
    Well the biggest limitation is obviously not being able to decorate a yard, but honestly, all we do is thrown down 3 or 4 items, picnic tables, trees and thats it. The benefit of having instanced housing connected through all the various kinds of npc structures in the game world is just... wow. Imagine having your house right in Bree, or near the AH in Michel Delving. It would be very immersive and fun, and would bring to life those towns again.

  5. #5
    On the high population servers there is a shortage of housing even with only one house per player, and you want to ask for up to four houses per player on the same server? Queue many more complaints on those servers because some players are getting multiple houses while other players are getting none.

    While the game software does auto-create new housing neighbourhoods when the most recent neighbourhood begins to get full, there is still a cap on how many neighbourhoods the game will allow. Once it hits that limit, that's it, no more new neighbourhoods at all. While I haven't been following the news of the housing update very closely, I haven't heard that Turbine plans to lift the current neighbourhood cap. I suppose they will have to in order to deal with the shortages on the high population servers, or maybe they'll create new neighbourhoods in new locations (100% guess on my part), but being able to own multiple houses on the same server won't work on the big servers unless Turbine radically increases how many houses can exist on the same server.

    There's also the data issue. Every owned house adds data to the database. Every item stored in every owned house adds data to the database. The more data in the database, the bigger and slower it gets, the more disk space it needs, the more memory it needs, the more cpu it needs, the more I/O it needs, and this all impacts the server's general performance. Slimming down the housing data in the database will likely be one of the goals for Turbine, not just the functionality of housing for players.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pluck View Post
    Id really much prefer houses in the actual game world, even if its the npc houses that we can take over for our own. Housing instances just always turn out to be empty, depressing places.
    Wow i thought i was the only one, it feels so empty all the party tables and streets are always empty and lonely i hate it.
    I want the streets to be filled with people and have an atmosphere of joy and fun, Its our home away from the War not a depressing hole i have to store stuff in.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SensBeard View Post
    Wow i thought i was the only one, it feels so empty all the party tables and streets are always empty and lonely i hate it.
    I want the streets to be filled with people and have an atmosphere of joy and fun, Its our home away from the War not a depressing hole i have to store stuff in.
    It's empty because there's no crafting areas, and then there's so many inactive players that own a house, which means active players can't buy one.

  8. #8
    Well considering that with probably 50% or more of the current houses are locked because those players have left the game and haven't logged on in a year or more (but more likely years), it would make more sense for Turbine to simply free up those houses to be used by people that actually are playing the game.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeTheEmerican View Post
    It's empty because there's no crafting areas....
    False. It's empty because there are many hundreds of neighborhoods, and on average there will only be maybe 2 people per neighborhood even logged in at the same time. They were typically empty even when they were brand new and everyone was excited to have a house. You know how many times I ran into someone else in my neighborhood back when all the houses had active players in them? Four. In the entire first year I owned my house. Even if other people were there on occasion, I would have missed them most of the time... I was in my house, and they were in theirs. If we were both outside, chances are about 90% they would have been out of view.

    Putting crafting in those hundreds of neighborhoods (or worse, in the many thousands of houses) would be a bad idea - it would dilute the players even more than we already are. If they want to make housing feel "alive", they're basically going to have to get rid of the whole neighborhood concept, and move the houses to the social hubs (where the crafting is too)... not the other way around.

    Khafar
    Last edited by Khafar; Feb 21 2013 at 01:41 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Pluck View Post
    Id really much prefer houses in the actual game world, even if its the npc houses that we can take over for our own. Housing instances just always turn out to be empty, depressing places.
    This.

    Create housing areas in the actual maps (can be 1 or more areas in each map). Maps like Shire can have multiple locations where housing can be available but not too many places. The limitation of which maps to use would be the type of area so deserted places, restricted and places near fighting will have no housing. So you can have Shire, Bree, Thorin's Duillond/Celendim, Rivendel, hobbit area in Evendim and later on Edoras and Minas Tirith can have parts as housing areas.

    Each area can have 4-5 standard types of housing based on the type of race residing in the neighbourhood (small, large, kin and variations/different yard design).

    Each player will choose an area of housing and a type of house. The player will access the housing as an instance and this will enable many players to own the same house. No limitation on where and what home to get. Maybe the store can be used to unlock additional housing slots so you can own a 2nd house.

    At the neighbourhoods you can have npcs, crafting and other facilities, some can be in houses to reduce load. Neighbourhoods can work like the big hubs work now, multiple instance layers, when there are too many people there.
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  11. #11
    Personally I think it should be possible to have player housing inside the established game towns, but still keep the housing instanced.

    Making the landscape houses available as player housing is not so easy. How large would Bree need to be in order to supply enough houses to satisfy demand for a house that is part of the town itself, without using instances? Then try doing that in The Shire, which is meant to be very rural with small villages.

    IMO, one of the most inconvenient details about the current player housing is where they are located. The neighbourhoods are instanced, but the instance entrances (for Bree, Shire and Celondim at least) are not close to anything convenient. If those instance entrances were inside their closest towns (at the end of an alley or through a gateway or doorway that is part of the relevent town) that could be useful. It's such an obvious option that surely someone in Turbine throught of it when they were making decisions on where to put the housing areas, but instead of that the houses are in the middle of nowhere. Sure, we can port to/from them, but having the housing neighbourhoods appear as if they are an actual part of their respective towns makes more sense from a player perspective.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    Personally I think it should be possible to have player housing inside the established game towns, but still keep the housing instanced.

    Making the landscape houses available as player housing is not so easy. How large would Bree need to be in order to supply enough houses to satisfy demand for a house that is part of the town itself, without using instances? Then try doing that in The Shire, which is meant to be very rural with small villages.

    IMO, one of the most inconvenient details about the current player housing is where they are located. The neighbourhoods are instanced, but the instance entrances (for Bree, Shire and Celondim at least) are not close to anything convenient. If those instance entrances were inside their closest towns (at the end of an alley or through a gateway or doorway that is part of the relevent town) that could be useful. It's such an obvious option that surely someone in Turbine throught of it when they were making decisions on where to put the housing areas, but instead of that the houses are in the middle of nowhere. Sure, we can port to/from them, but having the housing neighbourhoods appear as if they are an actual part of their respective towns makes more sense from a player perspective.


    I agree whole heartedly. I have a house in bree, but it doesnt feel like part of bree to me. Its so far in the middle of no where that even with the tele I abrely go there. And for those who cant tele out, you have to map out which messes with your cd. Housing may have been nice when first im plemented but now it does need a major overhaul.

    How I would love to walk up the alley in bree and be in my nieghborhood.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Georgee View Post
    The player will access the housing as an instance and this will enable many players to own the same house.
    And who gets to decorate the outside?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelamanthDE View Post
    And who gets to decorate the outside?
    Probably "nobody"... decorations would be inside only in instanced housing. However, it's at least theoretically possible that they could use tech like they did for Hytbold to allow each player to see things as they had personally decorated the outside.

    Speaking of Hytbold, someone made a suggestion to let us build our own instanced Hall as Thane of Hytbold... for those who chose to do so, that could be a good way to bring housing into a town. Those who moved to such a house would give up their house in a neighborhood, making room for others to move in if they wished.

    Khafar

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pluck View Post
    Id really much prefer houses in the actual game world, even if its the npc houses that we can take over for our own. Housing instances just always turn out to be empty, depressing places.
    taking the npc houses over sounds like a nice idea, especially hen gondor coming up in the future, but the building the houses in the actual gameworld i really disagree with, i've seen in other mmorpg's that that would destroy the beautiful scenery of lotro... remember, you won't be the only one building a house then
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixxer View Post
    building the houses in the actual gameworld i really disagree with...
    Yeah, that isn't a feasible option - many thousands of houses out on the landscape would turn Middle-earth into a sort of suburban nightmare. Whatever they do, it's bound to be instanced one way or another (whether that's sticking to the current neighborhoods, adding virtual housing in social hubs, or whatever).

    Khafar

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pluck View Post
    Well the biggest limitation is obviously not being able to decorate a yard, but honestly, all we do is thrown down 3 or 4 items, picnic tables, trees and thats it. The benefit of having instanced housing connected through all the various kinds of npc structures in the game world is just... wow. Imagine having your house right in Bree, or near the AH in Michel Delving. It would be very immersive and fun, and would bring to life those towns again.
    this is how it is in EQ2. and you can have many houses. some are instances that are "luxury suites" or even islands you can buy, but many are housing units that are spread among the various cities and towns. I had a sweet pad in south freeport, a tenebrous tangle island and two luxury houses.

    the furnishing of the houses is very cool in eq2 also. i mean you can just set stuff pretty much where ever. i really dont even bother to decorate my house in lotro...its just like...idk cumbersome and you can only put a few things in your house...the housing definitely needs a major overhaul...not just an upgrade

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Yeah, that isn't a feasible option - many thousands of houses out on the landscape would turn Middle-earth into a sort of suburban nightmare. Whatever they do, it's bound to be instanced one way or another (whether that's sticking to the current neighborhoods, adding virtual housing in social hubs, or whatever).

    Khafar

    no no no....you make the door to the house the actual instance....so you can put in like 3 or 4 housing units and house hundreds or even thousands of players in each one. its a tad less personal on the outside because you dont get your "own house" that is visible in the game world, but the inside is as unique as the houses in the neighborhoods they have now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaragi View Post
    no no no....you make the door to the house the actual instance....so you can put in like 3 or 4 housing units and house hundreds or even thousands of players in each one
    Yes, I understand - that's what was meant by "virtual housing in the social hubs" up above. In FFXI, there was actually only one "house" entrance per large city, and every player used it to get to their instanced house. LOTRO can of course do something a bit better than that, although I'm not sure they'll actually take that suggestion. It's quite possible that they'll leave things as they are, but address the "abandoned house" issue and perhaps give neighborhoods some more travel options.

    Khafar

  20. #20

    Forclosures please

    Quote Originally Posted by Joreel View Post
    Well considering that with probably 50% or more of the current houses are locked because those players have left the game and haven't logged on in a year or more (but more likely years), it would make more sense for Turbine to simply free up those houses to be used by people that actually are playing the game.

    I agree. Time to start issuing Forclosure papers for unpaid rent. Everything in these houses should go into escrow. This escrow should be permanent and cannot be deleted by the system. Eviction should be given after one month of zero rent paid.

    Don't open more neighborhoods. Just boot the non-payers.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    Personally I think it should be possible to have player housing inside the established game towns, but still keep the housing instanced.

    Making the landscape houses available as player housing is not so easy. How large would Bree need to be in order to supply enough houses to satisfy demand for a house that is part of the town itself, without using instances? Then try doing that in The Shire, which is meant to be very rural with small villages.

    IMO, one of the most inconvenient details about the current player housing is where they are located. The neighbourhoods are instanced, but the instance entrances (for Bree, Shire and Celondim at least) are not close to anything convenient. If those instance entrances were inside their closest towns (at the end of an alley or through a gateway or doorway that is part of the relevent town) that could be useful. It's such an obvious option that surely someone in Turbine throught of it when they were making decisions on where to put the housing areas, but instead of that the houses are in the middle of nowhere. Sure, we can port to/from them, but having the housing neighbourhoods appear as if they are an actual part of their respective towns makes more sense from a player perspective.

    I think Everquest 2 does this beautifully. You can rent 1-2 bedroom houses right smack in the middle of towns. Housing in the main faction cities would be great. The Shire would require more brainstorming due to it being so rural but it wouldn't be too difficult.

    I would love to be able to own a house in Standgard. I love the rustic wood houses. Interior or exterior.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    Personally I think it should be possible to have player housing inside the established game towns, but still keep the housing instanced.

    ...

    If those instance entrances were inside their closest towns (at the end of an alley or through a gateway or doorway that is part of the relevent town) that could be useful.

    ...
    I've never understand the logic behind this and have suggested the same on this forum a couple of times.

    Moving the housing neighbourhoods closer or inside the towns they are supposedly part of (even if they are still instanced) would mean that players would be more inclined to actually visit their houses, and would increase 'footfall' in Bree, Michel Delving, Celondim, etc. making those towns (and hopefully the neighbourhoods themselves) feel more alive.

    Unless there's a server-load issue with this I can't understand why they are miles away from anywhere, at the moment housing is just some additional vault space and slightly cheaper repair bills.

  23. #23
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    Better yet, don't make the door to the house the instance entrance, make an arch that you go through at the end of the sidewalk the entrance. That way you can have a yard. They can just have a empty yard when you look into the instance from the outside, but when you enter it, your house appears with whatever yard decorations.

    I would actually like them to tweek what they have now for the people that may come back and then make a whole new system for the players playing now. That way, nobody loses anything that may be inactive for now and the people that are playing can enjoy a whole new, vastly improved housing system. I want more location options and more house options. I would love a Mirkwood, Forochel or Rohan house. I want more options, not just 4 locations with 2 different house designs each.

    Not only that, but if they do a instanced house in all the big cities, they shoulc open it up so each character can own a house. My Hunter could have a place in Mirkwood, my Burg in Hobbiton, my Mini is Rohan, then you can have the storage chests act like shared storage throughout your account.

    Just to add a little more. Each land should have 4-5 options for houses throughout the map. They could put an instanced house in MD, Hobbiton, Stock, and Tuckborough. Bree can have Buckland, Bree, Combe, Staddle and Archet. Each location could have a different model. Since they are all towns, they either have a stable or they can add one so you can swift to a hub.
    Last edited by Indy-in-IN; Feb 21 2013 at 12:35 PM.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by StrideColossus View Post
    Unless there's a server-load issue with this I can't understand why they are miles away from anywhere, at the moment housing is just some additional vault space and slightly cheaper repair bills.
    The housing neighborhoods are new landscape. We use the enter the portal to go to the correct instance. They are a lot like the Carn Dum and Urugarth instances in Angmar.

    Our housing is based on the Asheron's Call housing system. In AC, the landscape is covered with housing neighborhoods. I hard to run very far in the wilderness without having a wha? moment. There is a little group of standard and deluxe homes. Kin halls were by themselves. The landscape homes no where near a city were very popular with the customers. We got back and forth via our personal home or kin hall port. There was a portal somewhere on the landscape to get to a community if you did not live there. I used a route finder plugin to tell me to run to portal a - run to portal b - run to portal c - run to Swamp Temple Place portal to drop in that housing community.

    Later on landscape housing was costing too much generating all these new homes. Turbine created the concept of an apartment block which had a bunch of apartments. You had to go to the apartment block portal run around until you found apartment 108 which was your apartment. There were 80? apartments in a block - two floors and four wings on each floor. 108 would be first floor first wing. I think you landed in the center of the first floor. You could recall to your apartment. Although I occasionally saw people in a landscape housing community. I never saw anyone in a housing block.

    IMHO - Turbine went with the neighborhood concept because people liked neighborhoods in AC. It gives some opportunity for player interaction. There never was much interaction in housing neighborhood. You would see people at a kin hall crafting. Or hanging around wanting for a group to form. Kinhalls had hookable portals. Some kins like mine had portal bots.

    Certainly Turbine could have picked 3 doors in Bree. If you owned a deluxe home, you go thru the deluxe door into your house. How would you visit someone? You could do it like Swtor does for personal ships. You have to be in a group with the owner to board their ship.

    It will be intersting to see what Turbine does for the housing revamp.
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  25. #25
    To comment on OPs point, yes I think we should be able to buy a house in every neighbourhood. Multiple ones even, provided you had the cash for rent. Let's face it, any scarcity of a digital product is purely artificial (or ineptitude on the part of the person who created the product) and should not even exist as a concept for people to ponder upon. (I'm aware popular servers are not spinning new housing instaces. See: ineptitude, above.)

    Their placement out there in the wilds, especially in case of Bree housing, is a bad idea. They should be inside the cities. This wouldn't be an issue if there was no cooldown on the return skill, but eh. On the other hand, I've understood this is partly fault of LotRO's engine - any instanced area must exist on the main map so it can be copied and instance-fied. This however doesn't explain why they couldn't build them in some far-away coordinates, place entry portals into starter cities, and then spin them into instances on demand as usual.

 

 
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