Hunter is According to Plan

[Lendas]

Folks... with the recent nerf to our weakest legendary trait to restore 4.9 - 7 power per hit, It's become obvious what has been suspected for a long time now.


lets not delude ourselves into thinking that anything will ever get better, because its been going steeply downhill since RoI. The current playability of the class and the state that we are in is debatable, but what is not debatable is the fact that we have been systematically nerfed, directly and indirectly, for a long time now. The many changes both global and class related as well as the intentional INACTION by our overlords is obvious, and I'm afraid that with this recent round of intentional, direct, and precise changes, My worst fears have been realized.


My fellow Hunters, Turbine has done this intentionally. No one could possibly make the changes or LACK OF changes without having the direct intent of weakening the Hunter class.

I don't know why or what they intend to do with the class. Some steps indicate that they want to move the Hunter population into different classes that they have made similar to Hunter in some abilities (Wardens with 40m range, ports, cost TP to play) or similar DPS output (Champions). Of course, Its impossible to know for sure, but Turbines behavior is almost surely as a result of their corporate overlords' plans, be they some statistician's numbers or some consumer behavioral scientist from WB figuring out how to make the most money.

Of course, this is a long time in the making. WB took over Turbine in late SoM (the time of our last revamp) and undoubtedly have a hand in the situation here. Notice that since SoM, we have only become more dependent on Pen shot, Weaker compared to everyone else, received a disproportionally large amount of borked up/ ineffective skills. We have fallen behind other DPS classes and have become undeniably in a very serious condition in the moors.

But Turbine could not just destroy the Hunter class and be do whatever it wanted to do. This had to be done subtly. If turbine came at the once thriving Hunter population and crushed the class in one swoop or whatnot, the outcry would be enormous and people would just quit off the bat. No, The Hunter class needed to be slowly made distasteful, slowly made the lesser of the classes. They had to maintain the illusion that they still wanted the class to exist, without giving too much hope to those who would wish to stay in the class.

The goal has sadly been achieved. Most Hunters that I know have alts of other classes that they play with increasing frequency and overall the population of Hunters has plummeted. The fun and challenging Hunter play style of old has been, intentionally, replaced with a boring pen-spamming system, with low survival and ineffective skills along the way. Don't you find it odd that in our pre-WB revamp, we had penshot focus cost INCREASED to 3 focus to stop what 1 update later was implemented: the pen-shot-derp-spam.






sure, Turbine lost customers and VIPers.... but their math most likely says that it will pay out in the long run. Having the most popular starter class do fine in the LVLing process only to be dead-ended at endgame is an ingenious business plan to say the least. People, who have already spent on x-pacs, quest packs, store items, and other fluff, will find their Hunter dead in the water at endgame, and will either quit (in which case, money has already been spent and turbine wins) or will re-roll the most similar class to Hunter in terms of DPS or playstyle (in which case turbine also wins with warden purchases or lvling an entirely different toon, getting even more money)

So its win-win for turbine, and maintaining the illusion of viable Hunter endgame is less than the profits they make from those who buy the stuff only to find their Hunter is underpowered in it, and re-roll a different toon.


my friends, This nerf marks the end of the line when it comes to any illusion of the class. This is the plan... Turbine's plan.... and as much as we can tell ourselves it's going to be alright and we will get buffed..... we're not. Any supposed class updates are highly questionable when it comes to weather it will be any real class "UPdate" or weather it will be a re-shuffling of the same broken skills we already have.

the proof is, as always, in the pudding.


I will personally continue to fight for the Hunter class, and I encourage you all to fight as well. I am just trying to warn those who would still hold on, that I would get out of the class now. Yes that plays right into the hands of Turbine, but they make the rules, and I would not struggle on with this any longer. Lets post the warning signs and strobe the lights here "dead end".

Dont expect turbine to buff us folks, cause its their loss.

I know this sounds like a big overblown conspiracy theory, but when big public companies with big money and big data along with company behavioral analysts come along to take over a company, they want to maximize profit, and that's what it's all about. When you follow the Hunter as closely as I have for as many years as I have, you can see that this is a perfectly reasonable explanation. If you have a better one I would love to hear it.



Keep fighting.


Thank you.



TL; DR
Turbine planned to nerf Hunters intentionally over time.

[Zombielord]

It's not a conspiracy ... Apparently they stopped playing their game.

[Lendas]

It's not a conspiracy ... Apparently they stopped playing their game.

No one is that ignorant. The level of fail cant be explain by ignorance alone anymore. Anyone in their right mind would think it completely insane to make a legendary skill return 4.9-7 power per skill use of skills that cost 100-190 power.

The only explanation is that its part of the plan.

[lioheart]

Folks... with the recent nerf to our weakest legendary trait to restore 4.9 - 7 power per hit, It's become obvious what has been suspected for a long time now.


lets not delude ourselves into thinking that anything will ever get better, because its been going steeply downhill since RoI. The current playability of the class and the state that we are in is debatable, but what is not debatable is the fact that we have been systematically nerfed, directly and indirectly, for a long time now. The many changes both global and class related as well as the intentional INACTION by our overlords is obvious, and I'm afraid that with this recent round of intentional, direct, and precise changes, My worst fears have been realized.


My fellow Hunters, Turbine has done this intentionally. No one could possibly make the changes or LACK OF changes without having the direct intent of weakening the Hunter class.

I don't know why or what they intend to do with the class. Some steps indicate that they want to move the Hunter population into different classes that they have made similar to Hunter in some abilities (Wardens with 40m range, ports, cost TP to play) or similar DPS output (Champions). Of course, Its impossible to know for sure, but Turbines behavior is almost surely as a result of their corporate overlords' plans, be they some statistician's numbers or some consumer behavioral scientist from WB figuring out how to make the most money.

Of course, this is a long time in the making. WB took over Turbine in late SoM (the time of our last revamp) and undoubtedly have a hand in the situation here. Notice that since SoM, we have only become more dependent on Pen shot, Weaker compared to everyone else, received a disproportionally large amount of borked up/ ineffective skills. We have fallen behind other DPS classes and have become undeniably in a very serious condition in the moors.

But Turbine could not just destroy the Hunter class and be do whatever it wanted to do. This had to be done subtly. If turbine came at the once thriving Hunter population and crushed the class in one swoop or whatnot, the outcry would be enormous and people would just quit off the bat. No, The Hunter class needed to be slowly made distasteful, slowly made the lesser of the classes. They had to maintain the illusion that they still wanted the class to exist, without giving too much hope to those who would wish to stay in the class.

The goal has sadly been achieved. Most Hunters that I know have alts of other classes that they play with increasing frequency and overall the population of Hunters has plummeted. The fun and challenging Hunter play style of old has been, intentionally, replaced with a boring pen-spamming system, with low survival and ineffective skills along the way. Don't you find it odd that in our pre-WB revamp, we had penshot focus cost INCREASED to 3 focus to stop what 1 update later was implemented: the pen-shot-derp-spam.






sure, Turbine lost customers and VIPers.... but their math most likely says that it will pay out in the long run. Having the most popular starter class do fine in the LVLing process only to be dead-ended at endgame is an ingenious business plan to say the least. People, who have already spent on x-pacs, quest packs, store items, and other fluff, will find their Hunter dead in the water at endgame, and will either quit (in which case, money has already been spent and turbine wins) or will re-roll the most similar class to Hunter in terms of DPS or playstyle (in which case turbine also wins with warden purchases or lvling an entirely different toon, getting even more money)

So its win-win for turbine, and maintaining the illusion of viable Hunter endgame is less than the profits they make from those who buy the stuff only to find their Hunter is underpowered in it, and re-roll a different toon.


my friends, This nerf marks the end of the line when it comes to any illusion of the class. This is the plan... Turbine's plan.... and as much as we can tell ourselves it's going to be alright and we will get buffed..... we're not. Any supposed class updates are highly questionable when it comes to weather it will be any real class "UPdate" or weather it will be a re-shuffling of the same broken skills we already have.

the proof is, as always, in the pudding.


I will personally continue to fight for the Hunter class, and I encourage you all to fight as well. I am just trying to warn those who would still hold on, that I would get out of the class now. Yes that plays right into the hands of Turbine, but they make the rules, and I would not struggle on with this any longer. Lets post the warning signs and strobe the lights here "dead end".

Dont expect turbine to buff us folks, cause its their loss.

I know this sounds like a big overblown conspiracy theory, but when big public companies with big money and big data along with company behavioral analysts come along to take over a company, they want to maximize profit, and that's what it's all about. When you follow the Hunter as closely as I have for as many years as I have, you can see that this is a perfectly reasonable explanation. If you have a better one I would love to hear it.



Keep fighting.


Thank you.



TL; DR
Turbine planned to nerf Hunters intentionally over time.

TL;DR too long to read.

Seriously though? Just a tweak into power restore and you go on about it just like you did with PO and PoTE? How come I'm not so surprise? Oh yea, I was expecting it to happen sooner or later.

Still doesn't changes our overall dps gains with the new gears and bonuses.

Agree that it was a nerf.
Somewhat agree it will hurt many hunters in long long long raid fights.
Do not agree that it will cause a big change because of the 5k hunter power pool and 2k+ ICPR.

Although I well point out this: "Why the hell Turbine is lowering the power restore of low power restore skills?" There is literally no reason to, I mean it. Pointless nerf..................

[Lendas]

TL;DR too long to read.

Seriously though? Just a tweak into power restore and you go on about it just like you did with PO and PoTE? How come I'm not so surprise? Oh yea, I was expecting it to happen sooner or later.

Still doesn't changes our overall dps gains with the new gears and bonuses.

Agree that it was a nerf.
Somewhat agree it will hurt many hunters in long long long raid fights.
Do not agree that it will cause a big change because of the 5k hunter power pool and 2k+ ICPR.

Although I well point out this: "Why the hell Turbine is lowering the power restore of low power restore skills?" There is literally no reason to, I mean it. Pointless nerf..................

This is not about that nerf. This is about that seemingly "pointless" nerf and the Hundred other "pointless nerfs" that we have had over the past 3 years.



What Im saying is there must be a method to the madness. This change just confirmed my suspicion that this needed to be part of the plan. Anyone who was NOT intentionally nerfing the Hunters would look at 4.9-7 power and say "no that's cant be right for a legendary skill"

but they didn't

shows that they are intentionally and sometimes indirectly cutting away at Hunter to achieve the goals that I stated above, making the nerfs not "pointless" but having a purpose of weakening Hunters.



Ps: please de-quote me in your posting.... its taking up lots of space

[Blizzard12]

No one is that ignorant. The level of fail cant be explain by ignorance alone anymore. Anyone in their right mind would think it completely insane to make a legendary skill return 4.9-7 power per skill use of skills that cost 100-190 power.

The only explanation is that its part of the plan.

That trait saves you 2.5-7% power from the total cost of the skill so if I do 20 skills like that I'll have saved enough power to use the skill one more time. I actually don't use that trait, it's way to weak for a legendary trait, not worth the slot. it MIGHT do for a normal class trait.

(I think my numbers are about right)

[Lendas]

That trait saves you 2.5-7% power from the total cost of the skill so if I do 20 skills like that I'll have saved enough power to use the skill one more time. I actually don't use that trait, it's way to weak for a legendary trait, not worth the slot. it MIGHT do for a normal class trait.

(I think my numbers are about right)

more like 1-4% depending on what skills you use most. either way its pathetic.


regardless this is NOT only about that nerf. Its about the whole state of the last 3 years of nerfs and insults to the class.

[Graycient]

It's hard to say, really. It could be either way. It might be a test to get people to play other classes, it might be that the developers just made bad decisions, or it could be that the players giving class feedback are confusing the developers and complaining about changes THEY asked for. Or all of the above.

[Lenilie]

Yes, BoTR is now essentially useless with this change (though let's be honest, it was only marginally useful before). However, on beta just adding a bit of fate to my build I'm having zero power problems with the more than doubled power pool, only slightly increased power costs and more than doubled ICPR values. In a raid situation I doubt I will ever run out of power now.

Please consider this when whining about this change to BoTR. The devs are just trying (though they're making a pretty big mess of it) to balance class power costs/restore skills with the changes to power pools and fate changes.

[Zombielord]

However, on beta just adding a bit of fate to my build I'm having zero power problems with the more than doubled power pool, only slightly increased power costs and more than doubled ICPR values. In a raid situation I doubt I will ever run out of power now.

I highly doubt the way fate works on BR will be the same way it works once U10 is live ...

[Aedfrith]

The point is only indirectly about power management.
The point is that this is an alleged LEGENDARY TRAIT. One you have to work, quest and grind for.
And it is worse than a standard red trait from one of the other classes.

We now have 5 meaningful legendaries to choose from (red and blue capstones, Bard's Arrow, Rain of Thorns, Press Onward).

Great job.

[Blizzard12]

It's hard to say, really. It could be either way. It might be a test to get people to play other classes, it might be that the developers just made bad decisions, or it could be that the players giving class feedback are confusing the developers and complaining about changes THEY asked for. Or all of the above.

What I hate most is the nerf to agility. It seems to me that they're saying that luck(fate) is better than skill(agility) more consistently. I've been playing my hunter for about a one and a half years now, he was my first real char, and haven't been very upset about the state of the hunter, until now. I won't give up my hunter.

[Kongas]

I'm a casual player. I can't run and rerun raid after raid, instance after instance for new gear. All u10 is doing for me is impose a massive nerf from which I'm expected to struggle back to some sort of parity to where I was while other classes surge ahead just by logging in after the patch.

I used to enjoy this game but the armour nerf and the agility nerf, taking away by fiat everything I've worked for, just makes me despair too much to play. I'm already barely logging on and I'm certainly not prepared to go through all the grind to get another class as good as my Hytbold hunter was.

This isn't a rage-quit, it's just weariness. These changes are such a stunning hit to hunters it's taken away my will to play.

[Paligas]

Turbine has no idea what the god damn hell they are doing. As a 5 year veteran hunter, they are fastly approaching the breaking point. WTG Turbine!

[Lenilie]

I highly doubt the way fate works on BR will be the same way it works once U10 is live ...

Based on the way they're desperately adjusting dozens of power costs of various skills across classes with each build of Bullroarer it certainly looks like they're trying to adjust everything else to keep the fate change exactly the way they have it.

Also, try to remember it's not just BoTR that's changing here, pretty much every class is having multiple skills altered (most in ways many players find very detrimental to their buils). It's not a direct slight against hunters here since it's affecting everyone, but rather overall Turbine stupidity and blindness to the consequences of what they're trying to do.

[Kongas]

Based on the way they're desperately adjusting dozens of power costs of various skills across classes with each build of Bullroarer it certainly looks like they're trying to adjust everything else to keep the fate change exactly the way they have it.

Also, try to remember it's not just BoTR that's changing here, pretty much every class is having multiple skills altered (most in ways many players find very detrimental to their buils). It's not a direct slight against hunters here since it's affecting everyone, but rather overall Turbine stupidity and blindness to the consequences of what they're trying to do.

The severe nerfing of the contribution of a stat we have lots of (AG) while boosting the contribution of a stat we have very little of is a direct and specific hit to hunters and burglars also I guess.

When we log on after U10, some classes are going to have benefitted and some are going to be massively weaker. Hunters will be the latter.

[Blizzard12]

The severe nerfing of the contribution of a stat we have lots of (AG) while boosting the contribution of a stat we have very little of is a direct and specific hit to hunters and burglars also I guess.

When we log on after U10, some classes are going to have benefitted and some are going to be massively weaker. Hunters will be the latter.

I'm hoping they give hunters a massive buff next patch, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[QueenArleth]

I know this sounds like a big overblown conspiracy theory...

Yes.

Given the new changes to power, I don't see any reason to even use that legendary trait. As well as press onward which needs a lot of work, this much is true.

We haven't been targeted directly. The only nerf I can think of affects my minstrel too. I'm referring to the removal of base stats on set bonuses, other than that if you feel you've been nerfed, you aren't gearing your hunter well enough it seems.

[Aohh]

I used to care... I have no longer the will to fight.

I'll play my overnerfed hunter regardless.
I can stay in the back in the raids and still discover the content.

It will remind me the time when I was the only dps paladin in WoW pre Wotlk...

I will however hope that raids still will want me.

[Macroscian]

Playing my fav class has become an insult. People ask if I have a main character to log on for raids. And for 3/6-character instances.

It still keeps me from seeing the constant "you must face the target" and it doesn't hurt the eyes as much as RK bright flashes.

I mean it, people ask for my main characters when I'm on either of my 85 hunters - on Brandywine and on Snowbourn.