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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    United Kingdom
    I was under Codemasters too, but I have to disagree with this idea because Codemasters had very bad protocol in interpreting the issue. Technically, killing another player is not an exploit because it's something that is implicitly allowed; using an argument that the said player randomly gets killed by the same player could be defined as camping, which is something natural in PvP. At its end, I don't see anything wrong with clubbing because it's something present in all MMORPGs. If there was something Turbine didn't intend, then that's considered an exploit. Besides, clubbing is a tete-a-tete affair and does not intervene with the affairs of other players except the parties involved benefit. When it comes to exploitation in PvE, because all players are linked by the environment as a whole, that's when one player can, with everyone else, issue the same exploit thereby being problematic.

    Besides, how would you rationalise clubbing? Let's find some definitions:

    1. The continuous killing of a certain player to earn battle points:

    Let's assume we're in a tournament of some sort: would I be clubbing if I were dueling a player of the opposite faction but coincidentally keep losing? Would that be classed as clubbing? and should I be banned for it?

    2. The intent to gain an unfair advantage over other players by engaging in free-form PvP:
    By this, I simply mean the off-chance that you so happen to be gaining an advantage by coincidentally killing and winning against the same player continuously. In essence, PvP is meant to be free-form and there are no right or wrong answers in strategy. If it so happens that a certain player has unfair advantage, then that is subjective and that leads to most thinking it is a form of clubbing.

    My judgement on the issue stands, and certainly there's nothing mutually irrespective of clubbing. Rather than whining about it, why not intervene by force? That's how most PvPers get involved; if something bothers you, then use force to deal with it.

    To conclude, PvP is an anarchic system and it's really a matter of player-choice to decide what goes. Any effort to reduce player choice simply causes problems within the PvP arena due to elastic the aspect of gaming is. (Of course, anything can be classed as clubbing!)
    [CENTER][I]Mephistopholes - Level 100 Champion (Focus: Tank)
    ~Never Alone~[/I][/CENTER]

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Just want to reiterate what everyone has said. Mostly that it's not right that one invests many hours into earning Glory Rank, while someone else is able to basically cheat their way there with minimal effort and time. Come on Turbine.

    I've also rated this thread "Excellent" as - correct me if I'm wrong - if enough people do it, the thread will have 5 stars beside its title and that'll hopefully help draw more attention.

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mephistophelis View Post
    Let's find some definitions:
    The intent to gain an unfair advantage over other players...
    by using a clearly unintended mechanic:

    1. To use terrain that is clearly not designed in such a way to provide an advantage over other players. For example the use of a piece of landscape that is not accessible by one side or some toons to kill other players or gain immunity to attack.

    2. To use a broken skill mechanic in such a way as to render the complete lack of ability for one side to counter. For example the burg trick spam or macro fire rk fire flapp.

    3. And most importantly: the use of multi-boxed characters to gain an unfair advantage over the opposition;
    That is logging multiple accounts and using them to farm renown/infamy or to break intended game mechanics.

    Note this could be a macro fired second toon as is happening on our server at the moment to have a captain follow a rune keeper about buff healing it. Players are not intended to have a full strength toon as a pet. This is blatantly obvious.

    Or to prevent a strong derail: The taking of freaver account trains around the map and killing them en mass for the return in renown and commendations.

    By abusing this loophole the freep in question gains commodations, which can be used to purchase equipment et all on multiple toons.

    They gain renown which can be used to unlock access to gear they would have to dedicate considerable time to using the intended mechanic.

    And post U10, access to BFP which increases the pvp effectiveness of their toon.

    On Gilrain the freeps have even gained the outnumbered buff because multiple freaver trains were being farmed at the time.

    In all these instances they gain a clear unintended advantage over other players who play the game as intended and is to the detriment of their intent to enjoy the product; or in absolute terms are exploiting to the detriment of other players.

    There is no ground for subjecture on any of these points. It is not hard for turbine to evidence the abuse of mechanics in this way. A warning, followed by ban, followed by permanent ban would, if it was publicised enough kill this behaviour in a blink.

    Finally the more subjective point of two independent players repeatedly meeting to farm each other, or non-multibox clubbing.
    Yes this is more a matter of choice for a customer to indulge in an activity that is not in the spirit of game design, but is never the less, is harder to "prove".
    In such instances it would be possible to look at the occurrance of such activities and have a guideline for what is abuse. Lets be honest if the same two people spent 2 hours a day meeting in the same place exclusively killing only each other over a period of weeks, there are grounds for a sanction.
    "Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
    "Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan

  4. #54
    I agree and stop this madness!
    /signed !

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Bring back CM.

    The original Valdez

  6. #56
    Used to play Battlefield 2 and you used to get something similar with players hiding in a far off corner of the map stabbing and reviving each other just to get a silly medal. Ultimately there was nothing really gained by this action but many an account was reset or banned if they were reported there was even websites to name and shame.

    I have to say I'm not sure how people actually go about this practice the hours that must be spent killing the same thing over and over must be mind numbing.

    Ultimately people have spent years earning their ranks in the moors and see it as a sort of badge of honour, seeing that badge tarnished by someone coming in and doing it all in a month is disheartening and frustrating. Causing the honest players to wonder if it is worth it.

    Turbine please look after your more dedicated pvpers before many leave in disgust at your seemingly flippant attitude to what boils down to cheating/exploiting.


  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Turin, Italy

    We really need some actions.
    You work so hard for your rank then you see someone powerranking, making in a week al ranks you made in years and if you complain you are answered it's technically two accounts and that's not against policies...............

    Even if it's two-three accounts (one for ressing all the time) and even if it's two-three different players doing that, it's still a way to take advantage on others players by breaking game mechanics.

    Please, do something, seriously.

    Third Marshal Navhar Battlehammer Reborn, r12 chm, MMW
    Commander Navharuglycousin, r11 reaver, MARVELS
    my youtube video

  8. #58
    Can I sign it a few more times?
    ./Signed :3

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Unpunished clubbing gives MMO a very bad publicity - it also directly affects fair players due to free equipment/skills currency and will have a huge negative effect with update 10 changes.

  10. #60
    Signed as many times as possible. Bring in the ban hammer.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    /Signed could not agree more

    it is also know as farming, rank farming, which is when person logs onto multiple accounts and makes a f2p reaver on each one of those, then makes them all follow one single multiboxed reaver and takes them to a secluded area and is also logged on his/her main account which is usually a freep and proceeds to kill them all, then makes them retreat, or sometimes they have a purchased warleader to rez them so they can kill them again, or just makes them retreat, refollow onto single target and repeats over and over again.
    Last edited by New_Requiem; Feb 07 2013 at 07:06 PM.
    Shapcidrat SoM-RoR

  12. #62

    and Turbine, is it really that hard to look at the accounts in question (ones reported in the exploit ticket) and see what IP or Mac address they originate from????? If all of the accounts doing the deed come from same IP or Mac that would be further proof that said person is in fact farming rank....also you guys do record combat so you could see that said reavers never attack back...nobody sparring would just sit there and let themselves get killed over and over......

    This is just way too simple to fix for it to go unnoticed........oh and did I say....

    Razzgash R12 Warg -- Razzgrish R12 Blackarrow -- Razztankz R12 Warleader
    Razztoxin R11 Weaver -- Razzhealzu R10 Defiler -- Razzbladez R9 Reaver

  13. #63

    How pathetic is clubbing, throw not 1 clubber a heal ever.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Lincolnshire, UK
    /signed for all my creeps & freepies.
    Pleaaase stop this breaking the game *puppy eyes*
    Iavadur - Black Guard

  16. #66

    Fingers crossed something gets done about this, its getting ridiculous.

  17. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    Don´t have much time to write book about this &&&& atm, but i totally agree - something needs to be done against it asap, weekly there been cought new clubbers and also exploiters.

  18. #68
    The end is here, the ring is gone. I could not help it . . .

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

  20. #70

    And we neither want more EM healing/buffing bots.
    Last edited by Mephisto_EU; Feb 07 2013 at 06:03 AM.

  21. #71
    /. signed

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Local cluster

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Sep 2010

    inb4 delete
    inb4 Celestrata or someone says "Farming is okay because I say so"
    inb4 A Dev deletes this thread because I mentioned Celestrata so I supposedly "attacked" a Dev, or some other &&&&ty excuse to delete this thread.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Waterford, Ireland
    This isn't about what side you're on, or what class you play. This is about ground rules and basic fair play on the simplest level. Keep the support coming.

  25. #75


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