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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cillion View Post
    Fair points..

    But you cant understand why people are ticked off at cheaters/exploiters gaining an advantage,or saving time/money this way?

    When did it happen that cheating/exploiting is an OK thing to do?
    What advantage do they gain which isn't trivial?
    The progression rate in itself was supposed to be a part of what made the game fun. As soon as it became an inhibitor, people started this type of behaviour. Fair enough in my opinion, why would you do something thats not fun, and was originally part of the attractiveness of the experience?

    In rebuttal to your second question, when did it matter enough that exploiting/cheating became a defined problem in this game?


    All of this really links back to some sense of entitlement everyone here feels they have. Reality of it is we aren't entitled to anything we aren't already getting.
    Last edited by Untg99; Apr 27 2013 at 12:16 AM.

  2. #527
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    When we live in a society where everyone says 'it doesn't affect me, thus I do no care', then we truly will be screwed.

  3. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    When we live in a society where everyone says 'it doesn't affect me, thus I do no care', then we truly will be screwed.
    Dude, this is just a video game. Seriously.

  4. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Dude, this is just a video game. Seriously.
    Poker is just a card game,chess is a game too... Yet i doubt you would want me cheating when we play against eachother,and i really doubt you would keep playing with me if you know i would keep cheating...

    Double standards based on the type of game?
    Last edited by Cillion; Apr 27 2013 at 07:47 PM.

  5. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cillion View Post
    Poker is just a card game,chess is a game too... Yet i doubt you would want me cheating when we play against eachother,and i really doubt you would keep playing with me if you know i would keep cheating...

    Double standards based on the type of game?
    Apart from the trivial percentage in damages and health, how is it actually affecting your active game experience?

    You're all treating this like the civil rights movement. Yes, it is a problem. Yes it should be stopped. But all I'm seeing here is people completely over-exaggerating it like its an issue of social justice.

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    If they're bad, and they farmed, they are still going to be bad. If they are good and they farmed, they're still going to be good.
    People are still going to complain about their inadequacies long after this issue is resolved. I just don't understand why this gets the face painted to it.


    Thought you get new skills/equipment when you rank up as well as buffs per rank. That itself is enough to condemn such actions. They can't be that bad if they gain new perks to beat you.

    Competition is the basic structure of any PVP and anything that constitute unfair advantage is frowned upon. I really thought ToS/CoC is towards players self-gain and anything that impedes it should get noticed. Does that means rank farming is advantageous to one player and disadvantageous to others? Which means it is against ToS/CoC?

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Dude, this is just a video game. Seriously.
    Allow me, if you will, to wax poetic for a minute here.

    It's not just about a game. It completely applies to society as a whole. You see who people truly are when they hide behind the mask of anonymity. Farmers in this game clearly don't respect the former laws set down by codemasters, and also don't respect other players by their actions. If they can't follow the rules/respect other people in a game why should they be expected to do it in real life either?
    They may not do it blatantly in real life, but eventually the frame of mind that says "I can do what I want to, whenever I want to" during a game will inevitably transfer over to real life. Maybe that means the person drives a few extra miles per hour on the interstate to work each morning. And maybe, because of their speeding, they get ticketed, or worse, get in a wreck. Potentially major if not life threatening consequences can sprout out of "just a video game".

    To you, this may sound like complete nonsense. But I believe that every decision we make shapes who we are and how we act in situations. How a person responds to the big things is utterly dependent on how he responds to the little things. If we can't even play "fair" in a game, how on earth can we be trusted in real life?

    Long story short, yes it does matter that people decide to take a stand against these things instead of the selfish "it doesn't affect me" attitude. Because while it may not happen immediately, letting things like this go unpunished will begin to affect you.

  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatevaplz View Post
    Thought you get new skills/equipment when you rank up as well as buffs per rank. That itself is enough to condemn such actions.
    Yes, and that triviality is the only valid reason for supporting a change of policy in the larger picture. That's where the problem starts, and that's where it should stop. For some reason though, ego and embodied attachments to this game are included all through the problem. Why? I'm guessing it's because the sun burns too much for some people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    Allow me, if you will, to wax poetic for a minute here.

    It's not just about a game.
    I stopped reading here.

    Call it brutal honesty if you wish, but I really think that if you truly think that is the case you need to take a step outside. I'm certainly not advocating for nothing to be done about this, but clouding this issue with something thats not part of it at all isn't helping anything.
    Last edited by Untg99; Apr 28 2013 at 04:15 AM.

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Dude, this is just a video game. Seriously.
    Those who believe that people will never input emotion, effort, or personality into a video game are seriously short-sighted.

    People behave in a video game oh so similarly to how they behave in real life in many ways. Sure, they're a bit braver, but they always boil down to the same thing.

    A jerk in reality is a jerk in a game.
    A wise man stays wise.
    An idiot stays dumb.
    The lazy stay lazy.

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Those who believe that people will never input emotion, effort, or personality into a video game are seriously short-sighted.
    Never said, or meant to imply anything like that at all.

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Yes, and that triviality is the only valid reason for supporting a change of policy in the larger picture. That's where the problem starts, and that's where it should stop. For some reason though, ego and embodied attachments to this game are included all through the problem. Why? I'm guessing it's because the sun burns too much for some people.
    Are you suggesting to take out the reward perks? If so this is a double-edge sword, with nothing to gain in Moors equipment/skills, perks then there are no reward value or stimuli to address players playing it. No one playing it is equals lost revenue to Turbine since this is one of the VIP perks.

    I think since we are in the notion of VIP status. It involves cash, when someone pays to play in uneven terms then there is a conflict. Conflicts in this game can be resolve in two ways. One to suggest or demand changes which is happening now, or leave the game. It is normal for customers to ask / demand changes or return the product. Suggesting they need to go out more is rather a crude statement.

    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Audacity The perks are not that small in contrast to what you previously posted. This doesn't count the skills/armour/traits.

  12. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatevaplz View Post
    Are you suggesting to take out the reward perks? If so this is a double-edge sword, with nothing to gain in Moors equipment/skills, perks then there are no reward value or stimuli to address players playing it. No one playing it is equals lost revenue to Turbine since this is one of the VIP perks.

    I think since we are in the notion of VIP status. It involves cash, when someone pays to play in uneven terms then there is a conflict. Conflicts in this game can be resolve in two ways. One to suggest or demand changes which is happening now, or leave the game. It is normal for customers to ask / demand changes or return the product. Suggesting they need to go out more is rather a crude statement.

    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Audacity The perks are not that small in contrast to what you previously posted. This doesn't count the skills/armour/traits.
    No, I'm suggesting they make farming punishable, but also suggesting we leave the rest of the bull&&&& out of the problem.

  13. #538
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    I know we're all wrapped up in anger about the KB deed change, but let's not forget that this issue has still not gone away.

    If we forget, Turbine definitely will.

  14. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Dude, this is just a video game. Seriously.

    Considering you have (averaged out) more than 1 post a day for the past 4+ years, totalling almost 3000, your above
    quoted statement takes on a whole new light.



    Clubbers, farmers, and multiboxers should all be perma-banned from the game. Period.


    Or should I say...the ToS and CoC should have enforced rules that reflect that sentiment.


    Gone.


    Forever.


    If the cheaters were playing a game by themselves, it would be all on them. Unfortunately, they are playing an MMO, with me, you, and everyone else, and yeah, when they cheat, it matters, and it matters enough that they need to be gone and never come back.


    My 2 cents.

  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    Considering you have (averaged out) more than 1 post a day for the past 4+ years, totalling almost 3000, your above
    quoted statement takes on a whole new light.



    Clubbers, farmers, and multiboxers should all be perma-banned from the game. Period.


    Or should I say...the ToS and CoC should have enforced rules that reflect that sentiment.


    Gone.


    Forever.


    If the cheaters were playing a game by themselves, it would be all on them. Unfortunately, they are playing an MMO, with me, you, and everyone else, and yeah, when they cheat, it matters, and it matters enough that they need to be gone and never come back.


    My 2 cents.
    Don't really see what my post count has to do with that statement. Whether I make one million posts on these forums or one, it's still only a video game.

    Ideally, I agree with the sentiment. But, for me there's too many things that aren't ideal which should be prior to this issue which stops me from really caring about it at all.

  16. #541
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    When a single player can move about the Moors with 20 plus 'freavers' acting in unison due to that many f2p accounts acting on a program, taking keeps by themselves, there is a problem. It's happening. Is there a statement anywhere from Turbine about this being okay or not okay? The intentional deaths of such a group is not okay, imho. But the using of such programs to unbalance the game environment by one person is an exploit in anyone's view and shouldn't be allowed, in my book. Landroval is dealing with Treeone and his 40-armed, Matrix-like reaver one-shotting people and the devs give the standard 'look into it' response and do nothing. Is Turbine serious about fair play?

  17. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Don't really see what my post count has to do with that statement. Whether I make one million posts on these forums or one, it's still only a video game.
    It has a lot to do with that statement.

    Your implication is that, as a game, it's trivial with no investment. However, your post count, even though most of the posts indicate that you are terribly bad at your class, makes it clear that you do have a strong emotional investment and invest more than another person who really does view the game as a trivial hobby.
    "I think we've seen historically that...the serious gamers are much more stable, and they're going to be around for a long time..." Sid Meier

  18. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwiley View Post
    *snip*

    Just to be clear turbine, a majority of you customers feel you endorse cheating. Great for company image that. If I left this game tomorrow and someone asked what I thought of turbine, my response would be they endorse cheating, nice legacy. *snip*

    ./signed
    If someone asked me that question, I'd say it's a company that lacks integrity and pride in their own products. A company that truly don't a **** about their reputation. And for the record, I've unsubbed last month and now f2p, with my last TP's spend on my wargie, Turbine wont see another dime from me untill they fix this and a whole lot of the other known issues.

    /signed

  19. #544
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    PvMP is the main selling point for subscriptions in my opinion. a weekly present and a fancy cosmetic for your portrait are not going to take over that role.
    I don't mind paying a monthly fee, but when the main feature of subscribing is a corrupted version of PvP I don't feel particulary eager to upgrade my account to VIP again.

    and about the "it's just a videogame" remark:
    it isn't, this is just as much a social platform as it is a videogame. You are dealing with real people and real emotions here. And games do not stand loose from the rest of life anyway. Try to tell a barcelona fan it is just a game when his team lost from real madrid hehe.

  20. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I know we're all wrapped up in anger about the KB deed change, but let's not forget that this issue has still not gone away.

    If we forget, Turbine definitely will.
    No why don't we forget this one? It's like the multi-boxers. Oooooooo such a big, bad problem; however, surprisingly, we rarely if ever see any of this going on. I play on one of the busiest servers and I am in the Moors all of the time and I've rarely seen anyone doing either. Mutli-boxers are gimicky and basically bring the whole server down on them when they appear. Rank farmers are out there but is this really wide-spread? Why don't we see it more? I can think of one time in recent memory whey I caught a player farming themselves. I know I can't be everywhere but how can this be such an issue if we never see it happening? The Moors isn't that big.

  21. #546
    I have to agree with Constrictus on this one. Whether Turbine does anything about this AFFECTS no social problems with the world. They should maybe, but how about all the other problems in the Moors and the game? Multi-boxing is way more damaging to the moors(while rare) since it severly effects balance and the fights in the moors.

    Farmers don't do much but look stupid imo.

    This can be easily player controlled and is on some servers. You find people farming,SS post it on forums and people will be looking for them. Either as first target to a raid, always getting ganked if in a 1v1 circle, and more awareness for the people who farm the farmers. I know many people will chase farmers whenever they in moors. They have to basically move servers and name change and USUALLY the stigma of being a farmer carries too. In fact, on Elendimir most farmers are never seen again within a month.

    Try to remember this game is about FUN. Not points.

    I know he is ruining your fun but that is NOT true. YOUR reaction to him being an idiot is ruining your fun. You have a CHOICE to have fun or not. After playing in the moors for 5 years I used to let idiots make me mad but no more.


    Personally, I think burgs and wargs ganking rezes and picking off greenies while letting anyone else go is much cheaper and this is NOT frowned on by community and many,many,many in game bugs have gone on the moors with no timely fixes is much more ridiculous than this issue.

  22. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffor View Post
    No why don't we forget this one? It's like the multi-boxers. Oooooooo such a big, bad problem; however, surprisingly, we rarely if ever see any of this going on. I play on one of the busiest servers and I am in the Moors all of the time and I've rarely seen anyone doing either. Mutli-boxers are gimicky and basically bring the whole server down on them when they appear. Rank farmers are out there but is this really wide-spread? Why don't we see it more? I can think of one time in recent memory whey I caught a player farming themselves. I know I can't be everywhere but how can this be such an issue if we never see it happening? The Moors isn't that big.
    If you read through the previous posts here, you'll notie that a lot of Brandywine players claim not to see this issue. But other servers do.

  23. #548
    Quote Originally Posted by Elerrina View Post
    Farmers don't do much but look stupid imo.

    This can be easily player controlled and is on some servers. You find people farming,SS post it on forums and people will be looking for them. Either as first target to a raid, always getting ganked if in a 1v1 circle, and more awareness for the people who farm the farmers. I know many people will chase farmers whenever they in moors. They have to basically move servers and name change and USUALLY the stigma of being a farmer carries too. In fact, on Elendimir most farmers are never seen again within a month.
    Known farmers on my server regularly PvP. They're not only accepted into groups but they're often protected in raids. With BP's they have become valuable to freeps. Our map stays mostly blue.

    More and more people are being caught farming. Freaver trains can be seen daily.

    How can you tell me this isn't a "problem"?

  24. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exion_Blade View Post
    Known farmers on my server regularly PvP. They're not only accepted into groups but they're often protected in raids. With BP's they have become valuable to freeps. Our map stays mostly blue.

    More and more people are being caught farming. Freaver trains can be seen daily.
    It is much the same on Gilrain. Except farmers are old news. Now we have regular botters who are accepted into freep raids.

  25. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prorsum View Post
    It has a lot to do with that statement.

    Your implication is that, as a game, it's trivial with no investment. However, your post count, even though most of the posts indicate that you are terribly bad at your class, makes it clear that you do have a strong emotional investment and invest more than another person who really does view the game as a trivial hobby.
    The amount of times you wash your clothes indicates your fashion sense.

    But yes, I have invested more time than someone who would have viewed the game as a trivial hobby.
    Suit yourself fancy pants. In terms of my class, name something specific. Don't be shy.

    It's still just a video game.
    Last edited by Untg99; May 21 2013 at 03:18 AM.

 

 
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