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  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by astalyn View Post
    I was saying that perhaps the mods would consider 1v1ing in general "fight clubbing". Turbine has already made it clear (to me, at least) that the moors is an area intended for big battles; most of the times I have been to 1v1 circles, other players have tried to stomp them out demanding we "take it to candy mountain" because the moors is apparently intended for group v group (big battles).
    1v1s do not exist in the presense of other players.

    It's no longer 1v1 when a 3rd player appears.

    And yes, these "circles" and collusion leading to them is also cheating IMHO.

    Oh and btw...I disagree that the moors is intended for (big battles). Frankly I think it's at its best when there are VARIED sizes and groups out there. The "risk" of being really solo is the reason I have played this game for so many years...what is it 6 now?
    Last edited by Thane9; Feb 26 2013 at 04:01 PM.
    [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma][B][COLOR=darkorchid]Second Marshal[/COLOR] Luc Brandenbuck[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#a9a9a9][FONT=Tahoma] ~[B]Battlemaster[/B]~
    Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe
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  2. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by astalyn View Post
    /signed

    I just worry that 1v1ers would get mistaken for clubbers, and that the line between clubbing and sparring would be blurred. The last thing I want is for 1v1ing to be outlawed unless it's a constant double-KB situation.
    IMHO there is NO sparring between creep and freep that is not cheating. It's collusion just to accept "terms" of a fight like that.

    It removes the risk of the "open" PvMP zone and frankly I blame for a great deal of the problems in the moors currently.

    It needs to be creeps v freeps wherever and whenever and in whatever sizes of groups are to keep that open feeling.

    Otherwise we may as well just have a queued arena. And that would ruin the best aspects of the moors IMHO.
    [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma][B][COLOR=darkorchid]Second Marshal[/COLOR] Luc Brandenbuck[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#a9a9a9][FONT=Tahoma] ~[B]Battlemaster[/B]~
    Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe
    [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=lime][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT=Tahoma][B]Champion[/B][FONT=Tahoma]:[SIZE=1]'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
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  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    these "circles" and collusion leading to them is also cheating IMHO
    1v1 circles are cheating? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    Frankly I think it's at its best when there are VARIED sizes and groups out there.
    So do I, and that includes the 1v1s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    IMHO there is NO sparring between creep and freep that is not cheating. It's collusion just to accept "terms" of a fight like that.
    Why? Someone still dies nonetheless, just like the VARIED sizes of groups out there. It's still player vs player and the intent is to have fun and lock teeth with skill and tactic -- JUST like your size-varying groups (unlike fight clubbing where the intent is to rank up without having to try, ie. cheating).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    It removes the risk of the "open" PvMP zone and frankly I blame for a great deal of the problems in the moors currently.
    Lol, no it doesn't. Me 1v1ing someone doesn't stop ANYONE else from joining in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    It needs to be creeps v freeps wherever and whenever and in whatever sizes of groups are to keep that open feeling.
    And nothing can stop that. Game mechanics overrides player actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    IMHO.
    Probably the most important part of your post. Your logic is skeletal and practically obsolete.
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  4. #354
    [
    [OOC] Bairash: 'people have been offering 50G per gear peice if i farmed for them' OC] Bairash: 'but im getting 150G today for getting someone 2 armor pieces today'

    isnt this considered gold farming ?



    Signed

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d01000029c7c4/signature.png]Imhealingu[/charsig]

  5. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    IMHO there is NO sparring between creep and freep that is not cheating. It's collusion just to accept "terms" of a fight like that.

    It removes the risk of the "open" PvMP zone and frankly I blame for a great deal of the problems in the moors currently.

    It needs to be creeps v freeps wherever and whenever and in whatever sizes of groups are to keep that open feeling.

    Otherwise we may as well just have a queued arena. And that would ruin the best aspects of the moors IMHO.
    And you continue to be wrong just like every other time you post this. There is more risk of dying in a 1 on 1 then there is in a raid and there is less a chance of getting renown/infamy (unless you are 1 on 1ing someone obviously inferior to you). In fact, when I 1 on 1 on my champ or mini I use as few of my cds as possible if I know I am fighting someone or a class with bad gear or just set up not to do as well and I have died plenty of times because of it (but I learned to be a much better player). Most of the raids running around will zerg whoeever they see, the warg packs will attack groups smaller and still HIPs/sprint if they have any chance of dying. THAT is removing the risk and THAT is just as much farming as the farming of freavers and more likely to get you rank/comms in the long run.

    So stop your non-stop pointing of fingers at 1 on 1ers and start focusing on the zergers who truly deserve it. It's also an absolute joke to blame the Moors problems on 1 on 1ers because a) there is so little of it anymore with raiders zerging the 1 o 1ers so much and b) the OP imbalance making the 1 on 1s pretty commonly imbalanced. I challenge you to actually outline any real issues 1 on 1s are causing.
    Last edited by avengingbananaslug; Feb 28 2013 at 02:47 PM.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  6. #356
    There are several instances of planned 1v1s to the death against the enemy in Tolkiens books. It's not cheating, and it's in keeping with lore.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000c7eb3/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  7. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    There are several instances of planned 1v1s to the death against the enemy in Tolkiens books. It's not cheating, and it's in keeping with lore.
    Haha. +1

  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    There are several instances of planned 1v1s to the death against the enemy in Tolkiens books. It's not cheating, and it's in keeping with lore.
    Yes, but its 1v1, and the result is final. Generally that is the end of that battle... It does not generally include a rez after completion, and repeated 5000 times...

    /signed... Clubbing bad, Farming worse... Rank used to mean something, especially to other PvMPers.

  9. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    In fact, when I 1 on 1 on my champ or mini I use as few of my cds as possible if I know I am fighting someone or a class with bad gear or just set up not to do as well and I have died plenty of times because of it (but I learned to be a much better player). Most of the raids running around will zerg whoeever they see, the warg packs will attack groups smaller and still HIPs/sprint if they have any chance of dying. THAT is removing the risk and THAT is just as much farming as the farming of freavers and more likely to get you rank/comms in the long run.

    So stop your non-stop pointing of fingers at 1 on 1ers and start focusing on the zergers who truly deserve it. It's also an absolute joke to blame the Moors problems on 1 on 1ers because a) there is so little of it anymore with raiders zerging the 1 o 1ers so much and b) the OP imbalance making the 1 on 1s pretty commonly imbalanced. I challenge you to actually outline any real issues 1 on 1s are causing.
    I'm not quite certain you're understanding Thane's perspective. I'm confident Thane has engaged in multiple 1v1s. However, much like other PvPers, an organized or pre-determined 1v1 seems a bit off and/or out of line with open PvP.

    In fact, when I 1 on 1 on my champ or mini I use as few of my cds as possible if I know I am fighting someone or a class with bad gear or just set up not to do as well and I have died plenty of times because of it (but I learned to be a much better player).
    For me, this is the issue I have. If a class/player has agreed to a pre-determined 1v1 with the notion that their opponent is completely underclasses or UP and/or OP, a loss has already been determined and you're essentially fighting for simple renown or infamy, depending on the faction. I'm not entirely sure that shouldn't be considered farming. It's the pre-determination in 1v1s that makes it sketchy.
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  10. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    Yes, but its 1v1, and the result is final. Generally that is the end of that battle... It does not generally include a rez after completion, and repeated 5000 times...
    It is good game design to follow the lore of the books, however it would be bad game design to follow the reality of death being final.
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  11. #361
    /signed

    Simple as that, never had any respect for clubbers.
    Bloodspill of Eldar, rank 15 Stalker and leader of the Angbands Shadow tribe.

  12. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    I'm not quite certain you're understanding Thane's perspective. I'm confident Thane has engaged in multiple 1v1s. However, much like other PvPers, an organized or pre-determined 1v1 seems a bit off and/or out of line with open PvP.
    More out of line than a pre-determined group fight where 12 people overrun 3? I can guarantee I have seen more fair 1 on 1s then I've seen fair group fights. In fact, the fairest group fights I've seen have been either organized ones or ones where one side has decided to fight in the opposition's NPCs or something similar, which is no different than an organized 1 on 1 except #s. Besides that, most open PVP are raids actively avoiding each other or unable to find each other and in the mean time overunning soloers and small groups. I see no way in which this is better for pvp then a 1 on 1 circle.


    For me, this is the issue I have. If a class/player has agreed to a pre-determined 1v1 with the notion that their opponent is completely underclasses or UP and/or OP, a loss has already been determined and you're essentially fighting for simple renown or infamy, depending on the faction. I'm not entirely sure that shouldn't be considered farming. It's the pre-determination in 1v1s that makes it sketchy.
    Yes but with some exceptions, people who do organized 1 on 1s try not to pre-determine the outcome (by blowing all their CDs for example) and those that do tend to not find many opponents. What I'm saying is if I do know my opponent is UP I will make the fight even and give them a chance to win by, say, not using bubbles on champ or heals on mini. Maybe this is because I know they don't have ranks, audacity, skills. It gives them a chance to work on their fighting skills without needing to just hide in a raid to avoid getting zerged and leech infamy/comms simply by going around zerging, which, again, is most of the raid fighting going on now. The biggest raid leaders on Silverlode pretty much brag about not caring if the fight is fair or not and actively seek to make the sides as unbalanced as possible. That is fighting for simple renown/infamy more than anything and certainly farming.

    I prefer organic 1 on 1s too but there are so few of them, just as there are so few organized 1 on 1s now. The raiders seem to have pretty much won in the Moors, so it's a joke to blame 1 on 1ing on any problems in the Moors. When I go out there and get attacked by 4 wargs, all of whom HIPs and sprint at the slightest possibility of dying, please tell me how that is in anyway less pre-determined on their part, fairer or containing more risk then a solo, organized fight.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  13. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    It is good game design to follow the lore of the books, however it would be bad game design to follow the reality of death being final.
    Death being final was not the point of that post... My point was, where do you draw the line at what is a 'lore' based 1v1, and what is farming? 1 duel? 2 duels? 3 duels? 4000 duels? How do you monitor it without implementing an arena where you can log and draw stats from it?

    Perhaps Turbine should start logging deaths, if a character dies to the same enemy 10+ times in a single day, they are booted from the moors till the next day... Would slow the farming process at least, and wouldn't happen very much outside of clubbing/farming unless it's really just that slow of a day...

  14. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    Death being final was not the point of that post... My point was, where do you draw the line at what is a 'lore' based 1v1, and what is farming? 1 duel? 2 duels? 3 duels? 4000 duels? How do you monitor it without implementing an arena where you can log and draw stats from it?
    I cannot see Fight clubbers finding any lasting success in staging perpetual 1v1s, they might get a few freebies in sure, but it's too much work in the long term. I trust that the player base can tell the difference between the two and report it accurately. I also trust turbine to interpret the logs upon investigation.

    I believe the point where a reasonable act becomes overcome by suspicion is reached rather quickly when it comes to botting a fake 1v1, taking an obvious dive in a fight, and 1v1ing a freever.
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  15. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post
    And you continue to be wrong just like every other time you post this. There is more risk of dying in a 1 on 1 then there is in a raid and there is less a chance of getting renown/infamy (unless you are 1 on 1ing someone obviously inferior to you). In fact, when I 1 on 1 on my champ or mini I use as few of my cds as possible if I know I am fighting someone or a class with bad gear or just set up not to do as well and I have died plenty of times because of it (but I learned to be a much better player).
    Generally +1 to this, although the definition of what a CD skill can vary depending on player outlook, server norms, etc.

    For my part, I conduct pretty much every 1v1 w/o the two real BA CD skills: Moving Target and uruk-heal. If an opponent uses a stupid skill first, I might pop one of these depending on my judgement of necessity, but almost as a rule I end up underestimating the need and so lose such fights. But I see each of these losses as an opportunity to learn what works and what doesn't, and to think of new strategies to make the fights closer, fairer, and more fun.

    Most of the raids running around will zerg whoeever they see, the warg packs will attack groups smaller and still HIPs/sprint if they have any chance of dying. THAT is removing the risk and THAT is just as much farming as the farming of freavers and more likely to get you rank/comms in the long run. So stop your non-stop pointing of fingers at 1 on 1ers and start focusing on the zergers who truly deserve it. It's also an absolute joke to blame the Moors problems on 1 on 1ers because a) there is so little of it anymore with raiders zerging the 1 o 1ers so much and b) the OP imbalance making the 1 on 1s pretty commonly imbalanced. I challenge you to actually outline any real issues 1 on 1s are causing.
    Run away with me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    There are several instances of planned 1v1s to the death against the enemy in Tolkiens books. It's not cheating, and it's in keeping with lore.
    Unlike RK's... ./Duckandrun

    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    Yes, but its 1v1, and the result is final. Generally that is the end of that battle... It does not generally include a rez after completion, and repeated 5000 times...

    /signed... Clubbing bad, Farming worse... Rank used to mean something, especially to other PvMPers.
    Please tell me you're referring in the above post to a farm session, not a 1v1. Because personally, if I lose to anyone at all, whether close friend or someone I'm seeing out in the moors for the first time, I keep going back to fight them because my loss means they know something I don't. If I feel like the other guy's just going bat-&&&& crazy popping ridiculous skills to avoid losing at all costs, and I have no way of countering it, I may give up... But probably not.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    I'm not quite certain you're understanding Thane's perspective. I'm confident Thane has engaged in multiple 1v1s. However, much like other PvPers, an organized or pre-determined 1v1 seems a bit off and/or out of line with open PvP.
    1v1's are indeed not exactly "open PvP", but what that term stands for in this game is currently so pathetic, a few people who want a more challenge generally opt to duke it out solo. Why? Because "open PvP" is atm often no more then a bunch of mindless drones following that one guy who has a reasonably inventive mind or some leadership qualities, and maybe that one guy who has a basic idea of what target needs to be burned down first. That's not to say RvR's aren't fun, but unless you're the raid leader or target caller, you're probably thinking far less than you would otherwise.

    Solo'ing forces you to rely on yourself, and 1v1'ing takes that a step further by - generally - enforcing some basic rules on what is okay and what is just "Iwin". This allows for, again, closer, fairer, more challenging and therefore more fun fights than a random solo encounter in "open PvP".

    For me, this is the issue I have. If a class/player has agreed to a pre-determined 1v1 with the notion that their opponent is completely underclasses or UP and/or OP, a loss has already been determined and you're essentially fighting for simple renown or infamy, depending on the faction.
    Absolutely not. For instance, I have a few friends that I engage in multiple 1v1's with, sometimes for hours on end. Rarely do more than 2-3 consecutive fights end in exactly the same result. While a lot of that has to do with the random number-based nature of combat in this game (crits, dev's and all that), much of it also comes down to split-second reactions, a player's sense of timing, (with this expansion) the number of OP's, the presence of the ON buff, and so on.

    Also, in the case of class imbalances, as avengingbananaslug said, a regular 1v1'er will always adapt to using fewer/more skills to even the fight. As a BA, for instance, I could choose to hinder-kite like a madman against all melee classes, and while champs, guards or burgs have options to counter this (Sprint, HiPS and re-stun, etc.), it would have to be a good captain to still give me a fair fight. Likewise, I would be a total dick to pop MT against a hunter, especially seeing as how so few of them even know how to mouse-turn and get inductions off. Therefore, as I said before, it is my practice to not use MT or uruk-heal unless forced to, to play in Skirmisher with a fire-trap to compensate for the reduced DPS, to refrain from using VT against squishier classes like RK's or hunters, and so on. And yet the only fights where the outcome is predictable are the ones where I go up against players I know are more skilled than me with the aim of improving through practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kril View Post
    Death being final was not the point of that post... My point was, where do you draw the line at what is a 'lore' based 1v1, and what is farming? 1 duel? 2 duels? 3 duels? 4000 duels?
    Read above where I said stuff about repeated fights for practice, would you include that under "farming" just because the count may indeed go up to a ton?
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  16. #366
    /signed for full rank-removal of anyone caught!

    And also include all players caught participating in arranged sparring, which also spoils PvMP......part of the reason I've not played in a while, Ettenmoors had completely stagnated.

  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I decided to make this thread in the interest of making sure that even Turbine cannot fail to see how angry so many are over the clubbing issue that has become a nefarious rot on so many servers. Exploiting in general in the Moors has spread like wildfire and Turbine takes virtually no action against any form of exploiting. Clubbing is an insult to the PVMP community and to those who work for their ranks.

    Clubbing was punishable under Codemasters by a complete removal of all ranks from a character after a GM investigation into it. Such a punishment would be a complete deterrant to clubbers to take part in it. It is time for Turbine to actually DO SOMETHING to show people that there are rules of play in this game, yes, even this game.

    Turbine put your cash aside and just do the right thing. PVMP is being utterly degraded by this.

    I'm going to draw as many players as I can to this thread, and I won't let it disappear quickly. Anyone who is against clubbing, post here and show Turbine that you are tired of it.
    /signed

    Enough of this.
    I've been at the mercy of men just following orders. Never again.

  18. #368
    Please, turbine, PLEASE.

    Put an end to this!

    I am seeing so many people do this (from the leaderboards) and it makes me feel (for lack of a better word) sad. All the work that I took months to do, someone does in 2 days.

    There is nothing sporting about it, and worse yet, they (freeps, mostly freeps do it anyway) will be able to use that against me with the new battle field promotions (a wonderful idea btw. unfortunately, it promotes clubbing....). They didnt even earn it. I did.

    Please save the majority from the unfair minority.

    END CLUBBING! please. (many people have suggested great ways to do this. look and them and please consider them.)


    Now, Forever and Always:
    /signed
    Cheiftain Ashtu-1, Defiler of Landroval
    Master Guardsman Jythro, Captain of Silverlode

  19. #369
    /signed

    Same problem on the german servers.....
    Chieftain Todespudel / Poodle of Death
    - Officer of Mog Ruith -

  20. #370
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    /signed
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2621a010000173c61/signature.png]Chukkie[/charsig]

  21. #371
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    Firstly I would like to ./signed. I am not surprised there has been no comment from Blue's but I am shocked this thread has lasted this long..

    Trying to move away from the use of terms because after reading the last gazillion posts it seems that the culprits are using the confusion over names of certain things to confuse matters. So, I think that any player who controls, by way of a 2nd account, box or another player to allow themself to defeat that character and therefore benefits by way of inf/renown comms etc is cheating and should have their inf/renown reset and not allowed to change names or servers.

  22. #372

    This is sad

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...Read-this-Book

    So how can this not be some form of cheating ???
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d01000029c7c4/signature.png]Imhealingu[/charsig]

  23. #373
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    I thought I'd seen everything until now. Ettenmoors is now officially broken...


  24. #374
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    That pic was the best...of the worst.

    /signed

  25. #375
    /signed
    Farming and 1 vs 1 circles are the worst aspects of pvp.
    .

    http://pogonina.com
    I'm not a fraid.

 

 
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