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  1. #326
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    /signed.

    My server *used* to be heavily policed for this activity, any clubbers found would be demolished on sight. Now however, it is very accepted, and when the clubs start breaking out, you may as well log off, because there will be nothing else going on.


    (edit) calling rank farmers or freever farmers "clubbers" is a bad choice of wording. I consider clubbers the fight clubbers who stand around in a big circle 1v1ing. The fight clubbers argue they are not farming, but "soloing" with no risk over and over is, in the end, farming, whether it's intentional or not. Hunting for those solo opponents in the wild carries far more risk, and requires more patience then just having them set before you on a platter. Either way, both definitions of a clubber need to be stopped IMO.
    Last edited by MorenaT; Feb 23 2013 at 11:51 AM.
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  2. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by MorenaT View Post
    I consider clubbers the fight clubbers who stand around in a big circle 1v1ing. The fight clubbers argue they are not farming, but "soloing" with no risk over and over is, in the end, farming, whether it's intentional or not. Hunting for those solo opponents in the wild carries far more risk, and requires more patience then just having them set before you on a platter. Either way, both definitions of a clubber need to be stopped IMO.
    I'm sorry, what do you mean "no risk"? And what do you mean by equating 1v1'ing to farming?

    For one, at any 1v1 circle, there's the quite real risk of a burg/warg/hunter coming along and profiting from the remnant of a just-finished 1v1. And there's always the chance that people with your mentality will come zerging out of the blue (because you're doing the moors "a favor", or w/e your go-to excuse is, I couldn't be bothered to find out). And oh, of course, your bout can always be interrupted by that one random greenie who just saw red.

    Also, the phrases "no risk" and "on a platter" seem to imply that people at 1v1 sessions will only go for the easy fights where they stand no chance of losing (although I may have misread you there, and I'm sorry if I indeed have). But the fact is that avid 1v1'ers actually go with the intention of testing themselves against equal or stronger opponents, or to keep in metaphorical shape, or give someone weaker the practice they need to get better, and so on, which is why almost as an unspoken rule you will see them limit (if not avoid) their use of cooldowns/heals/ridiculous skills/pots. Of course, there's often that one guy (or girl, not to be sexist) sitting there looking for easy renown/infamy, sure. But any half-arsed 1v1'er will recognize it as such and simply refuse to give the player in question what they want so they'll get fed up and leave eventually (or, as sometimes happens, call out the 1v1 circle).

    Myself, I spend hours "clubbing". At other times, I run around solo, and sometimes I'm even forced to join a zerg simply because there's absolutely nothing else to fight anywhere. I find that my 1v1 experience stands me in good stead in pretty much every situation, and I'm not even that skilled or knowledgeable a player. For instance, after returning a couple days ago from a break of a few months, I felt quite rusty and out of the loop w.r.t. game mechanics, class balance, the lot. I managed to get in a ton of play time yesterday (yay for terrible Fridays lol), and must've spent at least 60-70% of that time in 1v1's with some great players... By the end of the day I was pretty much up to date on all the most relevant changes I'd missed with RoR and U9, already back up to speed on my own class and how to play it, and had a ton of fun - I died mostly, but I learned a lot from every death. On the other hand, I doubt I would've gained diddly squat (apart from infamy, woohoo!) blindly zerging and/or following Vent/TS/raid targets. Why would you want to put a stop to something that's so extraordinarily beneficial?

    Now, my philosophy is that I don't agree with people that only ever zerg, with no thought for the far-reaching consequences of their actions. However, I also don't spend time on the forums or elsewhere telling Turbine they should take steps to stomp out excessive raiding in the moors (not that they would ever consider that request, if the RoR changes are anything to go by); au contraire, I would only suggest that they implement a model that encourages all play styles. If you want to run around in the moors unfettered, whether solo or as an anonymous part of a mass, have at it like a drunk chicken. Why bother those that are busy testing and improving themselves, and don't wish to bother you at all?

    There's possible caveats, of course: if the 1v1 is in a populated spot at peak time, then the risk of it getting stomped on imo must be accepted by the 1v1'ers without complaint. And if there's a mass of people on on one side wjo just can't get a decent fight because everyone from the other faction is in a gigantic 1v1 circle, I completely understand any zerging born of frustration.

    However, to destroy someone else's fun merely because they won't play with you is childish, immature and quite frankly pathetic.

    P.S.: That, btw, to some extent includes farmers. Like I said in my previous post on this thread, if a farmer merely wants to attain some rank because they're an obsessive "maximizer", and have no intention of PvP'ing at all, I don't see what difference their actions make to anyone else. Even with the upcoming freep bfp's, if they aren't going to PvP, they aren't gaining any advantage over the rest of the moors players - although if it makes a difference to their ability to PvE over someone who never sets foot in the moors, that's akin to exploiting instances etc. and I heartily support punishments.

    If however the farmer intends to actually engage in PvP once they're at/above a certain rank, that imo automatically means they are playing with you, but not in a very fair manner. In that case, again, I say punish them appropriately.

    As has been said many times already, the line is quite blurry, perhaps necessitating erring on the side of caution.
    Last edited by CirdalvalSilnuviel; Feb 23 2013 at 10:30 PM.
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  3. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by Graycient View Post
    Hey there

    Turbine's staff is made up of a bunch of whiny babies who sympathize other whiny babies. You can get banned for saying one swear word in a game that has a swear filter. Yes, their filter is pointless if people have their filters off and complain anyway. It's basically stupid people sucking up to other stupid people.
    /Not signed

    Filters are there but at the end of the day you are responsible for what you say. Your action or inaction with respect to your using curse words and the subsequent punishment for violation of the rules you agreed to abide by is independent of whether or not another player has the filter on. You can't use this as an excuse to try to validate a purposeful use of coarse language that you and the rest of us know is not generally considered acceptable in most circles outside of the game.
    A vote for Sapience is a vote for progress? A 4th fix to get Draigoch to "dragon up" that still doesn't fix the persistent bug in the raid is not how I define progress.

  4. #329
    Join Date
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    Let me explain why I call it clubbing and, clearly, what that means.

    I call it clubbing because that is what it is referred to on Gilrain.

    Clubbing as it is known on Gilrain involves one or more players controlling (directly or otherwise) other characters as a means of farming renown or infamy. Typically this control is in the form of using another account and a character on it as a source of renown/infamy. You kill this character over and over for a constant stream of points. In this way you avoid the PVP and PVE aspects of PVMP. Sometimes people club by getting a friend to help them. The result is the same.

  5. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Sometimes people club by getting a friend to help them. The result is the same.
    This is where it gets hazy.
    Some people call people who 1v1 clubbers when they beat opponents who won't give up by miles every time.

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Sometimes people club by getting a friend to help them. The result is the same.
    This is where it gets hazy.
    Some people call people who 1v1 clubbers when they beat opponents who won't give up by miles every time.

    Then there's that new undergeared LM who ventures out into the moors, who gets ganked by the same warg with no chance over and over without learning any better.

    Where's the line stop?

  7. #332
    You can't kill 1 char over and over again.Eventually after some kills you will get no points.Thats why freevers are worst ever idea. They are killed 5x , delete, make new one kill 5x and that is biggest joke ever Turbine haven't thought people will do that.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0100002de95a/signature.png]Trongash[/charsig]

  8. #333
    Signed

    Do something or you are losing a Member.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d01000030c5f2/signature.png]Jennywen[/charsig]

  9. #334
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    *sees large complaint thread*

    >. >

    <. <

    >. >

    <. <

    QQQQQQQQQQ HUNTERS ARE BROKEN QQQQQQQQQQQ



    my job is done here.


    seriously though: /signed.

    Why has this only recently become a big issue though? people have farmed since SOA. What's changed?

  10. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post

    Why has this only recently become a big issue though? people have farmed since SOA. What's changed?
    F2P made it a lot easier, also, people are just getting more and more willing to do it now that they know multi-boxing isn't even considered an offense.

  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    F2P made it a lot easier, also, people are just getting more and more willing to do it now that they know multi-boxing isn't even considered an offense.
    ah.


    well I sympathize with you squelch, but IDK where this is happening... I have never seen anyone farming themselves in 4 years or on Elendmir...


    is this a server thing? Im reading some people's posts here talking about it as if there is a 50 frever long train continually streaming out of grams in an unbroken line and that this is something that a lot of people are doing and that there are even "farm times" when the action is low...


    not that I don't think farming is bad, but I'm feeling as if things are being blown out of proportion. (or my server is just exceptionally well behaved)

  12. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    ah.


    well I sympathize with you squelch, but IDK where this is happening... I have never seen anyone farming themselves in 4 years or on Elendmir...


    is this a server thing? Im reading some people's posts here talking about it as if there is a 50 frever long train continually streaming out of grams in an unbroken line and that this is something that a lot of people are doing and that there are even "farm times" when the action is low...


    not that I don't think farming is bad, but I'm feeling as if things are being blown out of proportion. (or my server is just exceptionally well behaved)
    I've seen a few doing this on Firefoot now. Warden recently transfered over and has 5 or 6 reavers in a train, been getting 100k renown daily or thereabouts. Then trolls OOC from the freep account bragging about it.

    Hes got a couple buddies there now too joining in. Hes Rank 14 atm. Another guy does same thing with multiple Reavers. This must be stamped out and at this stage make it retrospective and strip them of their ranks. Easy to find the ones "earning" 100k renown/inf per day. So start with those. Word will spread quick enough. A good opportunity to change the rules is when update 10 launches.
    [url=http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/index.php][img]http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/wsiga.php/5668936TsVpp.png[/img][/url]
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  13. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laggus View Post
    I've seen a few doing this on Firefoot now. Warden recently transfered over and has 5 or 6 reavers in a train, been getting 100k renown daily or thereabouts. Then trolls OOC from the freep account bragging about it.

    Hes got a couple buddies there now too joining in. Hes Rank 14 atm. Another guy does same thing with multiple Reavers. This must be stamped out and at this stage make it retrospective and strip them of their ranks. Easy to find the ones "earning" 100k renown/inf per day. So start with those. Word will spread quick enough. A good opportunity to change the rules is when update 10 launches.
    again, I sympathize with the cause (seriously, and I know im sounding like im arguing against you here)

    but If he has a freever trait, why not just find it (i mean, its got to spawn at a rez point unless he is rezzing them somewhere) and destroy it on the spot and get free ren youself while denying him his ren? or just get on creep and follow his freever train to him and zergrush him over?

    I mean its bad and all but seems easy enough to counter.

  14. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    again, I sympathize with the cause (seriously, and I know im sounding like im arguing against you here)

    but If he has a freever trait, why not just find it (i mean, its got to spawn at a rez point unless he is rezzing them somewhere) and destroy it on the spot and get free ren youself while denying him his ren? or just get on creep and follow his freever train to him and zergrush him over?

    I mean its bad and all but seems easy enough to counter.
    They can just move the farming sessions to off hours (6am-10am is very quiet on many servers), remote areas (old plains OP, some places inside ID mine, area behind DG), and avoid community detection..

  15. #340
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    ..............

  16. #341
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    I believe it is indeed a problem that varies on a server-to-server basis. Gilrain has the problem in reasonably small amounts but it is clearly growing.

    Elendilmir probably doesn't have the problem as greatly. Even on Gilrain, Elendilmir is well-known for quality PVP.

  17. #342
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    /signed

    I just worry that 1v1ers would get mistaken for clubbers, and that the line between clubbing and sparring would be blurred. The last thing I want is for 1v1ing to be outlawed unless it's a constant double-KB situation.
    [center][font=andalus][size=2]akara / [/size][size=1]warg[/size][IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/16iyt5f.jpg[/IMG][size=2]blays /[/size][size=1] hunter[/size]
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  18. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by astalyn View Post
    The last thing I want is for 1v1ing to be outlawed unless it's a constant double-KB situation.
    Why? Generally, the most equally matched and fun 1v1's are those that end either in perma-double KB's, or alternating results. Good friends/players with tons of mutual respect might repeatedly 1v1 - knowing fully well that they'll only ever end in double KB's - in order to get practice and stay sharp. There is, as always, potential for misuse and abuse, but it would be unfair if there is no such intent whatsoever.

    I think they should bring back glory DR, personally, imo that made it (ever so slightly) harder for someone to farm.
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  19. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Elendilmir probably doesn't have the problem as greatly. Even on Gilrain, Elendilmir is well-known for quality PVP.
    Elendilmir has just as many farming issues as other servers. However, the size of E doesn't magnify the farming issue the same way that it does, on say, Firefoot.
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  20. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    Elendilmir has just as many farming issues as other servers. However, the size of E doesn't magnify the farming issue the same way that it does, on say, Firefoot.
    Pretty much this. By virtue of their better coordination and more dedicated players, creeps have managed to zerg a few of the more visible farmers into transferring. There are still some around, both freep and creepside. On E it seems like the majority (but certainly not all) of farmers are PvEers after armour sets. Since E has a reputation as a destination server for PvP transfers another significant issue is players who farm elsewhere, and transfer in with a rename to play 'legitimately'. At least a half dozen transfers have done this over the last few months on creeps, and its likely many more have or will do the same (both freep and creepside, of course)
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  21. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Anyway, not surprised that the answers we wanted were not given in the Twitter chat. Dodging the tough questions.
    Always have done m8, they've been asked loads of times by myself and not one question ever made it to the chat, they prefer to answer questions about housing or the store and always will avoid touchy subjects.
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  22. #347
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    I support this.
    [B][URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?385713-Kinship-Revamp-Proposal"][COLOR=#ed2669]A vote for the kinship revamp proposal is a vote for progress! Vote today![/COLOR][/URL][/B]

  23. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    Why? Generally, the most equally matched and fun 1v1's are those that end either in perma-double KB's, or alternating results. Good friends/players with tons of mutual respect might repeatedly 1v1 - knowing fully well that they'll only ever end in double KB's - in order to get practice and stay sharp. There is, as always, potential for misuse and abuse, but it would be unfair if there is no such intent whatsoever.
    I was saying that perhaps the mods would consider 1v1ing in general "fight clubbing". Turbine has already made it clear (to me, at least) that the moors is an area intended for big battles; most of the times I have been to 1v1 circles, other players have tried to stomp them out demanding we "take it to candy mountain" because the moors is apparently intended for group v group (big battles).
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  24. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    again, I sympathize with the cause (seriously, and I know im sounding like im arguing against you here)

    but If he has a freever trait, why not just find it (i mean, its got to spawn at a rez point unless he is rezzing them somewhere) and destroy it on the spot and get free ren youself while denying him his ren? or just get on creep and follow his freever train to him and zergrush him over?

    I mean its bad and all but seems easy enough to counter.
    Currently this pos farmers' favorite tactic is when creeps have tr....just run the train to the 1-shots at the end of the secret path. he just tags them then lets the 1-shots kill them. They really should change it back to where you only get credit for the damage 'you' do.

    The only thing freeps can do is try to leech is renown.
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  25. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I decided to make this thread in the interest of making sure that even Turbine cannot fail to see how angry so many are over the clubbing issue that has become a nefarious rot on so many servers. Exploiting in general in the Moors has spread like wildfire and Turbine takes virtually no action against any form of exploiting. Clubbing is an insult to the PVMP community and to those who work for their ranks.

    Clubbing was punishable under Codemasters by a complete removal of all ranks from a character after a GM investigation into it. Such a punishment would be a complete deterrant to clubbers to take part in it. It is time for Turbine to actually DO SOMETHING to show people that there are rules of play in this game, yes, even this game.

    Turbine put your cash aside and just do the right thing. PVMP is being utterly degraded by this.

    I'm going to draw as many players as I can to this thread, and I won't let it disappear quickly. Anyone who is against clubbing, post here and show Turbine that you are tired of it.
    Here here!

    I agree 100% (I know, no big surprise to those here who know me)

    And I support ANY effort to recognize and officially mark this behaviour as cheating.


    My late response to this thread is a perfect indication of how sickened I've become of the issue. I was a once daily poster/reader/supporter/contributer of the forums and the game...now I'm just coming off a rather long 2+ month hiatus.

    I love this game. I love the moors. But Turbine owes it's player base to provide an upstanding and competative environment. And that's been sorely lacking.
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