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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viriel View Post
    Can you please explain me then, why clubbers farm those ranks??
    - To get commies.
    - To get gear.
    - To get a 2nd ager.
    - Too stupid to realize the merit part of it is meaningless like so many in this thread.

    And BTW: When I said it's meaningless, I meant it in the context of people talking about how it somehow tarnishes their great achievement. That's entirely what I was addressing and I think that was pretty obvious. But if you want to get into another discussion about whether it's unfair that someone can fightclub to get gear and such, I'm game for that too. That's equally none of your business IMO.

  2. #277
    /signed

  3. #278
    /re-signed....

    and btw ignore the trolls who try to come here and derail the thread by starting arguments about the legitimacy of the anti-farming movement...if they want to put up their "own" petition for those in favor of rank farming they should do so, giving reasons why it should be accepted and condoned, and see how much positive support it gets....
    Last edited by Vezz; Feb 15 2013 at 10:53 PM.
    Razzgash R12 Warg -- Razzgrish R12 Blackarrow -- Razztankz R12 Warleader
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  4. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    I never said it was. To each his own (that works both ways BTW). What I said was, the day they started giving out 20+ renown/infamy for a raid kill where 75% of the people in that raid had very little to do with the kill(s) is the day rank became meaningless. In case you aren't aware, when the game first came out you used to get like 2-3 points per kill if you were in a raid. Any moron can get high rank just by sponging up the renown now. You can be afk on follow ffs. I'll even take this a step further and state almost every meaningful design decision the pvmp developers have made since as far back as I can remember has encouraged people more and more to raid up and play like total cowards.

    And once you realize rank is absolutely and utterly meaningless, you will start to see that it's none of your business if someone pays their subscription to farm their rank in whatever way they see fit.
    Personally I am kinda split on this issue. If someone only wants to farm their own alts (or their friends' toons, as the case may be) but not get involved in the "actual PvP", I don't see how it's anyone else's business what they do. Within this constraint, the farmer has no influence on the quality of PvP, and behaves pretty much like any customer in any single-player game (or, heck, a solo-only PvE'er in an MMO).

    However, and here's the crucial point imo, if they actually intend to engage in PvP with the toon they farmed on, that automatically affects everyone else they play both with and against. Once a rank farmer joins the fray for real, the means with which they acquired their rank becomes a factor if only because it potentially gives them an unfair advantage over anyone that actually PvP'd for their "glory", leaving player skill out of the equation.

    I suppose the question now arises whether or not this conception of "honor" or "fair play" holds any real merit, but I don't wish to engage in that debate just right now.

    +Rep for everything else you said, though I am of the opinion that if players choose to adopt less risky/challenging play styles, that's down to their own attitudes; the devs are merely catering to what they see as the tastes of the majority with their overly raid-friendly changes. Which is sad, but not quite unexpected.
    Last edited by CirdalvalSilnuviel; Feb 16 2013 at 03:01 AM.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#008000]Palaverus Querulus (R11)[/COLOR], [COLOR=#00ffff]Jakyll Andhide (R6)​[/COLOR], [COLOR=#ff0000]Yellowsub Marine (R1)[/COLOR]
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  5. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I decided to make this thread in the interest of making sure that even Turbine cannot fail to see how angry so many are over the clubbing issue that has become a nefarious rot on so many servers. Exploiting in general in the Moors has spread like wildfire and Turbine takes virtually no action against any form of exploiting. Clubbing is an insult to the PVMP community and to those who work for their ranks.

    Clubbing was punishable under Codemasters by a complete removal of all ranks from a character after a GM investigation into it. Such a punishment would be a complete deterrant to clubbers to take part in it. It is time for Turbine to actually DO SOMETHING to show people that there are rules of play in this game, yes, even this game.

    Turbine put your cash aside and just do the right thing. PVMP is being utterly degraded by this.

    I'm going to draw as many players as I can to this thread, and I won't let it disappear quickly. Anyone who is against clubbing, post here and show Turbine that you are tired of it.
    ./signed

    +rep


    I amar prestar aen.. ''the world has changed..''

  6. #281
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    42
    ./signed!
    | Irithyll R10 Lore-master | Meraithe R10 Rune-keeper | Kyreena Minstrel R8 |
    | Wildcatz-1 R10 Stalker |


  7. #282
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    Australia
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    I read the title and already agree.

    /Signed
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    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Renbash-1 ~ Hadrochnyce ~ Lotharius-1 ~ Sabaktes-1[/FONT]
    [color=#FC0303] ~ Riddermark and Brandywine ~[/color]
    [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uSwToWqYOs/]This probably applies to you.[/url] [/center]

  8. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    - To get commies.
    - To get gear.
    - To get a 2nd ager.
    - Too stupid to realize the merit part of it is meaningless like so many in this thread.
    Obviously rank means something for everyone else just not for you. I challenge you. After this maintenance, delete all your creeps above r1. Roll new ones. Now you're allowed to buy anything you want from the store but not to use commendations. Also please you're not allowed to group in anything bigger than 6 players. After reaching r1 on any of them, delete and roll again. And so on. Please post your experience after.

    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    And BTW: When I said it's meaningless, I meant it in the context of people talking about how it somehow tarnishes their great achievement. That's entirely what I was addressing and I think that was pretty obvious. But if you want to get into another discussion about whether it's unfair that someone can fightclub to get gear and such, I'm game for that too. That's equally none of your business IMO.
    Yes, that would't be my buisness in a single player game. Please feel free to do anything you want there. This is MMO game though. Turbine do care about adressing problems with people abusing system in PvE side of this game. Yet they are not consistant and they allow people to abuse the system in PvMP side. This is not only about tarnishing someones achievements but about getting advantage over them. In PvE side that would be punishable offence, yet not here. If Turbine would originally want the gameplay to be not challenging at all like clubbing is, they would simple ( God forbid ) add the ranks to the store. It's not there for a reason.
    Last edited by Viriel; Feb 16 2013 at 07:26 AM.
    .
    R7-R7-R6-R6-R4-R4-R4

  9. #284
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    The Beach Brah
    Posts
    194
    ./Signed

    It's not getting out of hand, It IS out of hand.
    [INDENT][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000002521d2/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  10. #285
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    Jun 2011
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    Waterford, Ireland
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    No more arguing please, will just get the thread closed.

  11. #286
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    611
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    No more arguing please, will just get the thread closed.
    Agreed. Don't argue with 22Acacia...he's just grumpy.

  12. #287
    If you are a maximiser, theres one thing that LotrO has done that forces those maximisers to "club"

    For example, theres a 1h axe, the best axe ingame for Champions, much much better then anything else, higher dps then any other offhand, that you need rank 8 to get.

    For players that dont PvP, but want the best possible gear, theres not much choice.

  13. #288
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    575
    ./signed

    Please do something turbine, I'm watching literally years of my hard work being completely devalued. I like to walk around on both sides and have people immediately respect my effort as a player when they click on me and see my rank. For opponents to stop for a second and second guess whether they really want to attack me. and to make an informed decision based on both my rank and the ranks of all nearby, whether they feel they can win or whether they should retreat etc... how can my opponents get a fair idea of what fight they're getting when they have a choice between supposedly equal ranks but one player farmed for a few hours and I have literally months of ./played in the moors. I equally used to love seeing a new high rank on server, immediately respect that he will be a strong opponent and certainly a transfer of note. My heart would go a little faster at the prospect of trying my skill against such an opponent, my competitive spirit would rise. and the resulting fight would be fantastic. Nowadays I see a new high rank and 90% of the time he's a rank-farmer... he dies horribly and I feel cheated, Where was the worthy fight? The thrill of fighting a high rank is gone... Turbine please bring the excitement back! Rank matters way more than just the advantages you can get (though that matters too)

    also considering how many responses this has and the completely overwhelming support it's gotten I would like to see an official response. If nothing else moves you, how about the fact that this is so serious, players from both creep AND freepside have united behind this cause. How often does that happen turbine?
    Belolth Hisses with fury as venom drips from his maw, scorching the earth, "come manling, my brood hungers!"

  14. #289
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selo View Post
    For players that dont PvP, but want the best possible gear, theres not much choice.
    If they can't be bothered getting it fairly then they do not deserve the best gear.

  15. #290
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by Viriel View Post
    Obviously rank means something for everyone else just not for you.
    Interesting that you claim to speak for everyone but me.

    I challenge you. After this maintenance, delete all your creeps above r1. Roll new ones. Now you're allowed to buy anything you want from the store but not to use commendations. Also please you're not allowed to group in anything bigger than 6 players. After reaching r1 on any of them, delete and roll again. And so on. Please post your experience after.
    I roll fresh creeps on different servers all the time. I played a rank 2 warg for fun just last night. But your challenge is stupid: why would I delete my toons and lose all the skills and such I've accumulated? That has absolutely nothing to do with how laughable I find the argument that someone's rank means anything from a digital ego point of view. Particularly when I consider most of the players in this game rank farmers of one kind or another. That is, and to answer your other ridiculous statement about grouping: I can count on one hand the number of times I've grouped *at all* in the last 4 or 5 years. That's one of the many reasons I find this thread silly. Most of you are easymode zerg farmers from my POV.


    Yes, that would't be my buisness in a single player game. Please feel free to do anything you want there. This is MMO game though. Turbine do care about adressing problems with people abusing system in PvE side of this game. Yet they are not consistant and they allow people to abuse the system in PvMP side. This is not only about tarnishing someones achievements but about getting advantage over them. In PvE side that would be punishable offence, yet not here. If Turbine would originally want the gameplay to be not challenging at all like clubbing is, they would simple ( God forbid ) add the ranks to the store. It's not there for a reason.
    What do you care how someone gained their advantage? From your perspective, it's just someone to play against, right? Whether someone got their rank and the benefits that go along with it through what you consider acceptable means or unacceptable means, they're still just someone to fight against and they are either challenging to fight or not. Do you prefer fighting players that are unchallenging, is that it? Do you feel your rank gives you some Eru-given right to easymode? There are players on our server who never leave one-shots until they outnumber their opponents 2 or 3 to 1 and simply soak renown from their raid all day and night. I've seen many people vault past me in rank playing like this over the years. I find this play style cowardly, laughable, skilless and against the intent of the game. BUT IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS. They pay their sub and they can do what they want with it. I suggest you do the same and let others play how they like as well.

  16. #291
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    Aug 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    No more arguing please, will just get the thread closed.
    In your very next post after this, you argued with someone about farming to get the best gear. What you really mean is, no more arguments from people that don't agree with you.

  17. #292
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    Jun 2011
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    Waterford, Ireland
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    In your very next post after this, you argued with someone about farming to get the best gear. What you really mean is, no more arguments from people that don't agree with you.
    There is a difference between arguing and disagreeing.

  18. #293
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    78

    Thumbs up

    /signed

  19. #294
    I despise farming, but Acacia is right. Anyone who has farmed a brand or zerged a soloer in a raid has no business denouncing rank farming.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  20. #295
    clubbing durchest? or clubbing cliving train?´

    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    If they can't be bothered getting it fairly then they do not deserve the best gear.
    So a player that dont PvP, is always weaker in PvE, then a player that PvP
    Last edited by Selo; Feb 17 2013 at 07:08 PM.

  21. #296
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Portland Oregon
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    944
    I havnt noticed any rampant clubbing on Arkenstone. The few that are discovered gett killed and corpse-jumped by both sides pretty fast. I love the Ark =)

  22. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    What do you care how someone gained their advantage? From your perspective, it's just someone to play against, right? Whether someone got their rank and the benefits that go along with it through what you consider acceptable means or unacceptable means, they're still just someone to fight against and they are either challenging to fight or not. Do you prefer fighting players that are unchallenging, is that it? Do you feel your rank gives you some Eru-given right to easymode?
    BUT IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS. They pay their sub and they can do what they want with it. I suggest you do the same and let others play how they like as well.
    With that attitude taken out to real life we would have every sport champ on steroids and those who would like to do it clean, left in the dust. Who then prefer to fight unchallenging opponents? The one on steroids or the clean one?
    I'm paying for this game too and i got the right to demand something to be done with this issue.
    And finally, I suggest you to start caring.
    Last edited by Viriel; Feb 17 2013 at 08:01 PM.
    .
    R7-R7-R6-R6-R4-R4-R4

  23. #298
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    Aug 2010
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    475
    Quote Originally Posted by Viriel View Post
    With that attitude taken out to real life we would have every sport champ on steroids and those who would like to do it clean, left in the dust. Who then prefer to fight unchallenging opponents? The one on steroids or the clean one?
    But this isn't real life. It's a video game.

    I'm paying for this game too and i got the right to demand something to be done with this issue.
    Let me frame this a different way. Let's say you transfer servers and there are various high ranked freeps and creeps on that server when you get there. Will you care if some of them farmed it? Will it make one bit of difference to your gaming experience if you find out some of the people you're playing against got their rank unnaturally? Will you play them any differently?

    And finally, I suggest you to start caring.

    As stated, I stopped caring about rank long ago when they (Turbine) made it a joke and encouraged everyone to raid up and zerg farm. I suggest you see it for what it is.

  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Acacia View Post
    But this isn't real life. It's a video game.
    And yet, if you are willing to apply this thought process and nonchalant attitude in a video game, can it not be assumed that you are equally willing to do the same in real life? Unless of course, you are someone who shows his true personality behind anonymity but puts on a show for people to see in real life. If that's the case, then I suppose you have a completely different problem.

    I enjoy a good challenge, if I always won then what would be the point in playing? As the saying goes: You can learn nothing from winning and everything from losing.
    I am also a proponent of fair play. Someone using unintended and quite frankly, illegitimate means to gain an advantage over someone else should not be tolerated by any society that expresses some degree of morality.

    I will, if I may, go one step further and say that you too realize that farming is an unfair, or "inappropriate" way of obtaining rank, commendations, gear, and stats. If this were not the case, then why are you making excuses for why farming should be tolerated, or at least ignored?
    Your protestations plainly show that, despite what you have been telling us, you do in fact hold yourself to the same morale standard that we are proposing should be enforced, otherwise you would simply have said "to heck with your standard" and been done with it. Instead you have given examples and excuses for why the morale standard really doesn't apply here, and we should simply ignore farming because it does not (according to you), have any affect on us.

    This would be all well and good, if not for the fact that it is the same morale standard which you are dismissing that gives you any sense of authority in the first place. Because if we didn't both agree that there were some standard which measured "right" and "wrong", then we would not have a common ground to convince each other of anything.
    If you wish to hold to a different standard and say that farming means nothing to you (despite your actions being to the contrary of this statement), then you may go ahead and do so. But if you hold to this, you cannot expect to convince any of us that we are incorrect, because we are operating under different opinions of how morality should be defined.
    Last edited by Andared; Feb 17 2013 at 11:15 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d2160100000e1dea/signature.png]Andrag[/charsig]

  25. #300
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    275
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    *snip*
    Wasn't really how I read it Andared. 22acacia is saying that zerging in a raid is no different to farming. Which I vaguely agree with. 24 vs 12 is hardly a fair contest if you are just facerolling the 12. Bear in mind those numbers are for examples purpose only and 24 vs 12 may actually be a fair fight in some circumstances.

    As for the farming, I can't say I really see a problem with it. I suppose I stand in the rank means nothing camp thou. If people want to farm ranks/comms for pve gear so be it I suppose. Turbine did put some decent pve advantages into pvp and probably shouldn't have. Rather it shouldn't have been the only place to get them.

    If people want to lessen their experience and time spent in the moors by farming/zerging to improve their character.. Then I guess that is how the moors is anyway in some respects. While I find this distasteful, it doesn't really make them a better opponent, and so really means nothing in the end anyway. What are they going to do, make rank 15 and stop earning inf? There is only so many comms one can spend on pots. At some point everyone will make rank 15, assuming they don't raise the cap. Will that balance pvp, probably not. Those taking the path of less resistance are more likely to get bored and move on. In which case they would just be a forgotten player..

    I suppose Turbine have protected themselves from creeps farming freeps for ranks and avoided people bypassing the store for ranked gated creep skills in some sense. In that you would need to be a paying customer to farm freeps. So they are not particularly losing out there, although that would be the argument I would use to actually get them to take action.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000005049e/01005/signature.png]Paso[/charsig]

 

 
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