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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Enough clubbing is enough.

    I decided to make this thread in the interest of making sure that even Turbine cannot fail to see how angry so many are over the clubbing issue that has become a nefarious rot on so many servers. Exploiting in general in the Moors has spread like wildfire and Turbine takes virtually no action against any form of exploiting. Clubbing is an insult to the PVMP community and to those who work for their ranks.

    Clubbing was punishable under Codemasters by a complete removal of all ranks from a character after a GM investigation into it. Such a punishment would be a complete deterrant to clubbers to take part in it. It is time for Turbine to actually DO SOMETHING to show people that there are rules of play in this game, yes, even this game.

    Turbine put your cash aside and just do the right thing. PVMP is being utterly degraded by this.

    I'm going to draw as many players as I can to this thread, and I won't let it disappear quickly. Anyone who is against clubbing, post here and show Turbine that you are tired of it.

    Edit: The definition of clubbing:

    'Clubbing' as it is known on Gilrain, is referred to as 'rank farming' on some servers. Its name varies but the interpretation of it remains very similar. It is the process of using a character(s) as sources of infamy/renown with which to accumulate huge amounts of points over an extremely short time by comparison to regular PVMP. Unlike normal PVP, the characters in use have no intention of fighting back. In fact, they are typically being controlled by the player who is farming them. This is usually done via a seperate, F2P account. Reavers, being a free class, can be created in virtually any number at no cost, offering a near-endless source of points. Clubbing and multi-boxing often go hand-in-hand.

    Note: For the purpose of this thread, I do not consider clubbing and organised 1v1 fights to be the same thing. That is a contentious and highly subjective issue. This thread deals only with the repetitive farming of characters that are not intended by any means to fight back .
    Last edited by Squelcher; Apr 25 2013 at 02:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    13
    Totally agree clubbing is an insult to the rest of us players who have spent years ranking, along comes a certain clubber and bamn Rank 11 in a month come on turbine do something before this game dies.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    17
    Pointless even being in Moors or even ranking. Taking the time to do it when someone comes along and ranks up 10 times in a week. Its pathetic and ruining everyone else's time in EM. Do something about it!

    Come on Turbine wake up.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/232210100000c957e/signature.png]Woofwoofwoof[/charsig]
    ....Ry....

  4. #4
    Cheating. no outher word to describe clubing and it must be stoped, turbine must do something about it before it gest worst.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Finland
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    917
    Not so dear Turbine

    Do the right thing for once and fix the clubbing problem instead of making new horses for the store, I can't believe how the quality of staff has changed during the years, other PvP communities would laugh if they would know of this, ignorance like this isn't even possible on major MMOs.

    As OP said this kind of action was not tolerated during the Codemasters era, just cut a bit off of the horse model/mannequin budget and END clubbing.
    Already cancelled sub and waiting for changes.
    Last edited by Jureon; Feb 06 2013 at 12:49 PM. Reason: typo
    [Juregar/Laurelin] [Jureon/Evernight] [Ragetrain/Laurelin]
    Member of Puliveivarit
    I was a corner survivor

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Gonna need some clarification here. When you say clubbing are you referring to where one character repeatedly meets up with an opposing character and lets themselves be killed, or are you talking about where freeps and creeps sit around and take turns fighting each other?

    The former obviously should be have action taken against it. I've heard CM also tried stopping the latter too, and that I do not agree with.
    [LEFT][COLOR=#ffffff]Morlenil Barkolomew Turmuz Shurz Gruubluk

    Posting in white; so people can read my dismal ramblings easier.[/COLOR][/LEFT]

  7. #7
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    12,146
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    Gonna need some clarification here. When you say clubbing are you referring to where one character repeatedly meets up with an opposing character and lets themselves be killed, or are you talking about where freeps and creeps sit around and take turns fighting each other?

    The former obviously should be have action taken against it. I've heard CM also tried stopping the latter too, and that I do not agree with.
    Collusion is collusion. There's no difference.
    [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma][B][COLOR=darkorchid]Second Marshal[/COLOR] Luc Brandenbuck[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#a9a9a9][FONT=Tahoma] ~[B]Battlemaster[/B]~
    Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe
    [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=lime][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT=Tahoma][B]Champion[/B][FONT=Tahoma]:[SIZE=1]'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/COLOR][/FONT]

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    Collusion is collusion. There's no difference.
    A formal 1v1, where both sides agree to some ground rules in the interest of fairness, has no secrecy, deceit or illegal objectives attached to it. Both players will have about equal chances to win, or one will learn more about their opponent and therefore gradually get better through practice.

    I've been playing a warg for a week of two now. I started it with the goal of improving my movement, and so far 1v1's have helped me immensely in gaging my progress. I lose most of the duels, in part due to my low Audacity and rank, but I feel like I'm getting better. I've beaten mid- to high-ranked players, had double-KB 1v1's or traded deaths with regular opponents.

    In principle, whether on my BA or the pup, if a fight is really fun and ends with me winning by 3k morale or less, I will get someone else to kill me. Now, if you were so inclined (as you obviously are), you could indeed see this as proof of glory-trading/cheating. However, you would be mistaken. There's no understanding in place, no discussion of such eventualities, and indeed often I get berated for the act. But it's just a gesture of goodwill on my part, and sometimes it isn't reciprocated even by friends I have on freepside. Do I care? Not at all.

    Really, get over yourself.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#008000]Palaverus Querulus (R11)[/COLOR], [COLOR=#00ffff]Jakyll Andhide (R6)​[/COLOR], [COLOR=#ff0000]Yellowsub Marine (R1)[/COLOR]
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  9. #9
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    Do something against these ridiculous cheater Turbine!
    Second Marshall Maywyn Eorthas of Rohan - Captain - Rank 13

    Tyrant Gate Wargkönig, Son of Krithmog - Stalker - Rank 15

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel View Post
    A formal 1v1, where both sides agree to some ground rules in the interest of fairness, has no secrecy, deceit or illegal objectives attached to it. Both players will have about equal chances to win, or one will learn more about their opponent and therefore gradually get better through practice.

    I've been playing a warg for a week of two now. I started it with the goal of improving my movement, and so far 1v1's have helped me immensely in gaging my progress. I lose most of the duels, in part due to my low Audacity and rank, but I feel like I'm getting better. I've beaten mid- to high-ranked players, had double-KB 1v1's or traded deaths with regular opponents.

    In principle, whether on my BA or the pup, if a fight is really fun and ends with me winning by 3k morale or less, I will get someone else to kill me. Now, if you were so inclined (as you obviously are), you could indeed see this as proof of glory-trading/cheating. However, you would be mistaken. There's no understanding in place, no discussion of such eventualities, and indeed often I get berated for the act. But it's just a gesture of goodwill on my part, and sometimes it isn't reciprocated even by friends I have on freepside. Do I care? Not at all.

    Really, get over yourself.
    I have tens of thousands of legitimate SOLO kills. That means I assumed the greater risk/reward ratio to roam the map alone in search of a kill and THEN fought and won. Players who "agree" to fight each other to the death, not call out for help, not receive help from other players on their side standing by watching, not try to run or escape, not use EVERY ounce of skills and abilities to either win or deny victory to their opponents, are in fact colluding. You can justify your actions all you want but it's collusion. And collusion is cheating. Get better through REAL play, not through arranged fights. The open PvMP nature of the Ettenmoors is really the only thing this game has going for it, and arranged fighting is killing that.
    [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma][B][COLOR=darkorchid]Second Marshal[/COLOR] Luc Brandenbuck[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#a9a9a9][FONT=Tahoma] ~[B]Battlemaster[/B]~
    Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe
    [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=lime][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT=Tahoma][B]Champion[/B][FONT=Tahoma]:[SIZE=1]'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/COLOR][/FONT]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    I have tens of thousands of legitimate SOLO kills. That means I assumed the greater risk/reward ratio to roam the map alone in search of a kill and THEN fought and won. Players who "agree" to fight each other to the death, not call out for help, not receive help from other players on their side standing by watching, not try to run or escape, not use EVERY ounce of skills and abilities to either win or deny victory to their opponents, are in fact colluding. You can justify your actions all you want but it's collusion. And collusion is cheating. Get better through REAL play, not through arranged fights. The open PvMP nature of the Ettenmoors is really the only thing this game has going for it, and arranged fighting is killing that.
    You're doing this on a champ, with (at least post-RoI) a myriad of ridiculous skills, self-heals, cooldowns, self-buffs - including the ridiculousness that is ISB - and so on and so forth. I only started playing a bit before RoI, so I never even knew solo'ing was a thing till maybe a couple months into that expansion. But since then, apart from the odd small group or incredibly rare raid (not since RoR), I've been solo'ing/1v1'ing on a BA and now, in U10, on a Shadow warg that only hit R6 last night. Solo'ing is my playstyle of choice, I on't need you to tell me how beneficial it can be, as far as improving at your class goes.

    1v1's allow for a more practical comparison between yourself and another player. If you ran into that player in open PvP, either you or they would resort to all manner of silliness - that Turbine has allotted some classes in this game - and the result would owe itself more to cooldowns and a class/rank mismatch than player skill. 1v1's remove this stumbling block, at least as long as players are willing to self-"nerf" in the interest of fairness, so that the result is more due to player skill, gear/trait setups (which can also be taken out of the equation) and the random number generators that fuel the misplaced sense of achievement so many players hold dear.

    It isn't collusion, it is a willingness to challenge yourself by limiting the use of some of the more nonsensical things in the game.
    Last edited by CirdalvalSilnuviel; Mar 31 2013 at 04:07 PM.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#008000]Palaverus Querulus (R11)[/COLOR], [COLOR=#00ffff]Jakyll Andhide (R6)​[/COLOR], [COLOR=#ff0000]Yellowsub Marine (R1)[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ffd700]Elendilmir[/COLOR][/CENTER]

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    I have tens of thousands of legitimate SOLO kills. That means I assumed the greater risk/reward ratio to roam the map alone in search of a kill and THEN fought and won. Players who "agree" to fight each other to the death, not call out for help, not receive help from other players on their side standing by watching, not try to run or escape, not use EVERY ounce of skills and abilities to either win or deny victory to their opponents, are in fact colluding. You can justify your actions all you want but it's collusion. And collusion is cheating. Get better through REAL play, not through arranged fights. The open PvMP nature of the Ettenmoors is really the only thing this game has going for it, and arranged fighting is killing that.
    Still harping on about risk/reward, are we? Really, do you think you are the only person that runs solo? I spend an hour or two at 1v1 circles when they're up on my server (which isn't that often), otherwise I'm almost always solo roaming. I'll sum up why you're completely and utterly wrong:
    • 1v1 circles tend to attract the better players, the fights can usually go either way (less true since U10, but still the case if people try to make the fights as balanced as they can). When I am solo roaming the vast majority of the people I meet are either low ranked or awful and stand no chance, they are simply free renown.
    • If you are losing a fight at a 1v1 circle, you can't run/call for help/pop IWIN buttons if you want anyone to spar you in the future. Solo roaming you can do all of those things, if you choose to.
    If anything, solo roaming is more rewarding and less risky than fighting at 1v1 circles.
    Eraelin | Redemnus

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    I have tens of thousands of legitimate SOLO kills. That means I assumed the greater risk/reward ratio to roam the map alone in search of a kill and THEN fought and won. Players who "agree" to fight each other to the death, not call out for help, not receive help from other players on their side standing by watching, not try to run or escape, not use EVERY ounce of skills and abilities to either win or deny victory to their opponents, are in fact colluding. You can justify your actions all you want but it's collusion. And collusion is cheating. Get better through REAL play, not through arranged fights. The open PvMP nature of the Ettenmoors is really the only thing this game has going for it, and arranged fighting is killing that.
    If I use every skill on my mini I will win everytime in a 1 on 1, whether roaming or not. Same with my champ probably now (used to be defilers with traited flies could take me). If I burn fellowships heart, etc that is removing the risk of play. In the kind of arranged 1 on 1s I like to do, I use as little possible and that is far more risk to me then your little supposed playstyle. If you are indeed using all your bubbles, dire need, stone, both horns, etc everytime you find a creep you are in fact getting far less legitimate solo kills than the arranged 1 on 1ers and are truly ezmoding just as much as the zergers. Even more if you are doing that in addition to calling out the creep.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    I have tens of thousands of legitimate SOLO kills. That means I assumed the greater risk/reward ratio to roam the map alone in search of a kill and THEN fought and won. Players who "agree" to fight each other to the death, not call out for help, not receive help from other players on their side standing by watching, not try to run or escape, not use EVERY ounce of skills and abilities to either win or deny victory to their opponents, are in fact colluding. You can justify your actions all you want but it's collusion. And collusion is cheating. Get better through REAL play, not through arranged fights. The open PvMP nature of the Ettenmoors is really the only thing this game has going for it, and arranged fighting is killing that.


    You're a champion... Champions have been grosely easy and very op for quite some time now. NOT having tens of thousands solo kills is a bigger achievement than having tens of thousands solo kills. You meet someone solo, you kill him. Simple as that.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Clubbing was punishable under Codemasters by a complete removal of all ranks from a character after a GM investigation into it.

    We need this asap.

    /signed
    [IMG]http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii524/Martwen/juan_zps65bf8663.jpg[/IMG]

    Badjuanra R12 (BA), Adbulhassan R9 (STK), Fatjuanra R9 (WL)

  16. #16
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    It's cheating and no different than exploiting an instance. I'm honestly baffled why Turbine has allowed it to continue. Stripping ranks sounds like an excellent punishment, as does stripping comms and any gear purchased with comms.
    [COLOR=#FF8C00][SIZE=2][B]Hromgar[/B][/SIZE], Captain[/COLOR]
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  17. #17
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    I am going to continue raising awareness of this cause until some kind of Turbine response is given. Having rules in the game are a given that should be upheld by the developers and their staff no matter what.

  18. #18
    I rated this thread as "excellent". I hope it reaches the hall of fame.

    oh and /signed.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000000c7eb3/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [CENTER]
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  19. #19
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    Signed if I we can still ezmode by purchasing what used to be rank gated skills in the store right away.

    Unsigned if ezmode is removed.

    /sarcasm off
    /grabs popcorn

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilykelowtrow View Post
    Signed if I we can still ezmode by purchasing what used to be rank gated skills in the store right away.

    Unsigned if ezmode is removed.

    /sarcasm off
    /grabs popcorn
    Easymoding is one thing. Cheating is in a league of its own.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I am going to continue raising awareness of this cause until some kind of Turbine response is given. Having rules in the game are a given that should be upheld by the developers and their staff no matter what.
    Hate to say but Sapience did confirm that they do NOT currently,or in the future plan to take action against this issue.. (way too lazy to search the post,but it is there)

    Kelsan said he considers it an exploit of the system to farm freavers or a friend XXXX times for rewards,yet in the end everyone is entitled to play the game how he wants to,and it is a minor issue that doesnt deserve their attention yet (lazyly translated on my part,but its out there too if anyone cares to look for it.)


    Posts about it get deleted,the creator warned (been there... i got asked to stop else id be punished harder then just forum affecting stuff),id love this to get adressed,i come from CM,i never understood why turbine doesnt care about cheats/exploits etc..

    Some gaming sites wrote about this issue,and perhaps if we get the word out there that turbine tolerates such things,and exploits etc in pve,they will be forced to react,cause bad PR does hurt eventually.

    I fully support this thread,and the creator! WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cillion View Post
    Hate to say but Sapience did confirm that they do NOT currently,or in the future plan to take action against this issue.. (way too lazy to search the post,but it is there)

    Kelsan said he considers it an exploit of the system to farm freavers or a friend XXXX times for rewards,yet in the end everyone is entitled to play the game how he wants to,and it is a minor issue that doesnt deserve their attention yet (lazyly translated on my part,but its out there too if anyone cares to look for it.)


    Posts about it get deleted,the creator warned (been there... i got asked to stop else id be punished harder then just forum affecting stuff),id love this to get adressed,i come from CM,i never understood why turbine doesnt care about cheats/exploits etc..

    Some gaming sites wrote about this issue,and perhaps if we get the word out there that turbine tolerates such things,and exploits etc in pve,they will be forced to react,cause bad PR does hurt eventually.

    I fully support this thread,and the creator! WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING.
    If Turbine make the decision to take this thread down, so be it. But I can use other mediums to keep pushing for this and other people will make threads. They are supposed to follow the will of the players. More importantly they're meant to have some ground rules for the game.

    I have not broken the forum code of conduct for expressing an opinion that is held by many players across the game.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Exploiting in general in the Moors has spread like wildfire and Turbine takes virtually no action against any form of exploiting.
    There is a general issue that turbine does not care about blatant exploits.

    They have never acted on terrain exploits, dragged their heals over skill exploit abuses, have not addressed farming/clubbing, instead now rewarded those who engage in it. They can't undo those who have already gained from it which in itself is repugnant.

    Yesterday someone on our server had they dual account captain on follow on their rune keeper, macro buff/healing. If thats not a blatant exploit; what is? The general consensus was its an exploit but whats the point in reporting it, turbine don't act on exploits.

    Just to be clear turbine, a majority of you customers feel you endorse cheating. Great for company image that. If I left this game tomorrow and someone asked what I thought of turbine, my response would be they endorse cheating, nice legacy.

    ./signed
    Last edited by Oldwiley; Feb 06 2013 at 04:01 PM.
    "Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
    "Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan

  24. #24
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    /signed
    [b]Markorin[/b], dwarf, guardian
    [b]Macko[/b], hobbit, burglar
    [b]Markuilas[/b], weaver

  25. #25
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    signed

    Hells yeah! signed! its 1 of the main reasons i dont play creep anymore. start regulating this stuff turbine!

 

 
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