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Thread: IDOME in U10

  1. #1
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    IDOME in U10

    Just wanted a space to rethink IDOME a little given the stat changes coming in Update 10. The following are the interesting ones:

    • Will no longer gives any Power, but it now gives 2 points of Tactical Mitigation.
    • Fate gives 2.5 to Crit Rating; Agility gives 1.
    • Fate gives something like 5.5 IPCR. I don't remember the exact ratio from when I popped into BR just now.
    • Crit Rating increases critical hit magnitude as well as chance


    Side note on that last bullet point: I noticed that I had a 17% chance to crit, 6% chance to devastate, and got around 22% extra crit magnitude. So I don't know what's going on with the formula. It sort of looks like they're adding crit chance to devastate chance to get the contribution to crit magnitude, but then that's off by one from what you'd expect. Rounding error? A hidden diminishing returns effect?

    Anyway.

    Now that folks can't control the overall size of their power pools by stacking Will, the only way for most classes to be more power efficient is through stacking Fate for the ICPR regen. IIRC, buying Fate on an item is about as efficient as buying straight ICPR, if you're only looking at the power restoration, so it's definitely a good deal now.

    So I think (I'd appreciate some fact-checking; my info on stat conversion may be out-of-date) that IDOME now gives the following to everyone in its aura:

    • +850 Tactical/Physical Mastery
    • +297.5 Crit Rating (Chance & Magnitude!)
    • +467.5 ICPR
    • +340 Physical Mitigation
    • +510(!) Tactical Mitigation
    • +255/425 Morale
    • +340 B/P/E


    You actually get the same amount of Crit Rating for U10 as on live, but: Agi classes will have less native crit rating than they're used to, because their primary stat is only contributing 1 point to crit rating rather 1.75 points. So, in theory it gives the same amount of Crit Rating, but in practice it may be a relatively larger benefit than before. But not by, like, a lot.

    On live, IDOME also gives +255 Power. That goes away now. But, instead of less than +277 ICPR, IDOME now gives +467.5 ICPR. This may end up being a pretty big deal. Given the power cost rescaling, that's two or three extra skill uses per minute on most classes. (467.5 ICPR is 2.5 Devastating Blows at ~181 power. The difference between U9 and U10 is roughly equivalent to one extra use of Devastating Blow per minute. And I can't stress enough that, given Fate's old non-linear scaling, it was extremely likely that 85 points of Fate would give substantially less than 277 ICPR.)

    Furthermore, IDOME gives, through Will, 170 more Tactical Migitation than it used to. That's not a huge number, but it's still worth noting.

    Anyway, tl;dr: Power pools got normalised, ICPR is more important than it used to be. Crit Rating contributes to crit magnitude as well as chance. Fate is kind of awesome now. Will gives Tactical Mitigation. Does all this add up to making IDOME a better pick for your legendary trait slot than Oathbreaker's Shame?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    [*]+340 Physical Mitigation[*]+510(!) Tactical Mitigation
    Correct me if I am wrong, but does not Physical mitigation come both from vitality (4 points) and might (2 points)? I believe it was always 510 Physical Mitigation from IDOME at lvl85 and now the Tactical Mitigation was simply raised to the same level.
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  3. #3
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    Yep, IDoME is definitely pulling ahead as a must have legendary (once again).

    I can forsee the 4R/3B raiding build continuing to be dominant because of FB, IDoME, and OS.

    Edit:
    With the latest stat changes, it almost feels like IDoME is starting to move closer to core functionality than it has ever been before.....

    While FB can be dropped while tanking (especially if SotD becomes a self target), IDoME is becoming just a bit too good to pass up.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Jan 31 2013 at 03:48 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunasa View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but does not Physical mitigation come both from vitality (4 points) and might (2 points)? I believe it was always 510 Physical Mitigation from IDOME at lvl85 and now the Tactical Mitigation was simply raised to the same level.
    No, Physical Mitigation is 2 x Might + 2 x Vitality (+ 1 x Armour)

    Tactical Mitigation used to be 4 x Vitality, now it's 4 x Vitality + 2 x Will (+ 0.2 x Armour)

    @Furtim:
    Your stat calculation for IDOME is correct.
    You're missing 340 Resistance and 128 ICMR though.

    The way Critical Rating affects Critical Magnitude is: rating / (300 * level + rating)
    17% Crit Rating = ~7.5k rating -> 7500/(300*85+7500) = ~22% Crit Magnitude so there's nothing fishy going on
    Last edited by Rhaphael; Jan 31 2013 at 09:40 AM.

  5. #5
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    Almagnus: I've sometimes dropped FB while healing in Song-Brother, too. The only good FB effect from it is the Inspire power restore, which I hardly ever fired off because Now for Wrath was restoring more than enough power for my fellowships. We'll have to see how the power pool and Fate changes shake out before determining how valuable it will be now, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhaphael View Post
    No, Physical Mitigation is 2 x Might + 2 x Vitality (+ 1 x Armour)

    Tactical Mitigation used to be 4 x Vitality, now it's 4 x Vitality + 2 x Will (+ 0.2 x Armour)
    Yes, I was going to post exactly this. Previous to U10, you got the same amount of Tactical and Physical Mitigation from IDOME. The reason you get more Tactical Mit from it now is that they added 2*Will to Tactical Mitigation while leaving the contribution from Vitality at 4*Vit.

    @Furtim:
    Your stat calculation for IDOME is correct.
    You're missing 340 Resistance and 128 ICMR though.

    The way Critical Rating affects Critical Magnitude is: rating / (300 * level + rating)
    17% Crit Rating = ~7.5k rating -> 7500/(300*85+7500) = ~22% Crit Magnitude so there's nothing fishy going on
    Thanks! Especially for the Crit Magnitude calculation. How did you derive (or find) that constant, though? I've had a really rough time finding up-to-date info on stats and rating conversions. A lot of what's out there is still pre-Isengard info, and the Isengard-era info is buried in forum threads, which are a bit difficult to filter and search through.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    Thanks! Especially for the Crit Magnitude calculation. How did you derive (or find) that constant, though? I've had a really rough time finding up-to-date info on stats and rating conversions. A lot of what's out there is still pre-Isengard info, and the Isengard-era info is buried in forum threads, which are a bit difficult to filter and search through.
    Up to date stat conversion formula's (written for Isengard but still valid for RoR, I tested it):
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...on-and-Offence

    As for the Crit Magnitude calculation, moebius supplied it, but I can't remember which thread (read it on Bullroarer today). It's the standard rating conversion formula P = R / (K * L + R) with K=300.

  7. #7
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    will IDOME give more ICPR than a fully buffed Tactics: Focus? that doesnt seem right.
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  8. #8
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    Tactic: Focus gives ~85 ICPR. So, yes, IDOME blows it away.

    All the more reason to either revamp or eliminate Focus.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  9. #9
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    The Focus Tactic should be changed to increase Resistance and Tactical Mitigation.

  10. #10

    :)

    ya, focus=useless, in fact just put my buff stick in its place. haha. I am Glad IDOME is getting good attention.
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  11. #11
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    No, Focus is fine as is.

    It's what I give people that keep harassing me for a buff.

    It's the mark of SHAME
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    No, Focus is fine as is.

    It's what I give people that keep harassing me for a buff.

    It's the mark of SHAME
    If they replaced the Tactic: Focus buff tooltip with one that read "You feel the need to sit and think about what you've done.", I would use Focus all the time.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  13. #13
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    The focus buff with a maxed-legacy level 85 SA with no crystals is ~384 ICPR.

    (I made 3 SAs before I got one with more than three majors, so one of them was turned into a swap/buff emblem)
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    No, Focus is fine as is.

    It's what I give people that keep harassing me for a buff.

    It's the mark of SHAME
    hahahaha yes all good captains do this
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    No, Focus is fine as is.

    It's what I give people that keep harassing me for a buff.

    It's the mark of SHAME
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    If they replaced the Tactic: Focus buff tooltip with one that read "You feel the need to sit and think about what you've done.", I would use Focus all the time.

    Hahahaha... I've been giving people that annoyed me the (Unlegacied) focus buff for ages now.... I'm glad to see i'm not the only troll. I also agree with Furtim... a tooltip change for trolling people would be high on my list.

    ...In other news... Yeah Idome starts to look better... Make OB a non-legendary skill!
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    If they replaced the Tactic: Focus buff tooltip with one that read "You feel the need to sit and think about what you've done.", I would use Focus all the time.
    Idk about u, but I have some burgs that cap crit without trying, and only thing that would be helpful and actually needed is icpr.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarefx View Post
    Idk about u, but I have some burgs that cap crit without trying, and only thing that would be helpful and actually needed is icpr.
    Bet they won't after the update, since most hunters and burgs are losing 1500+ crit from the agi/fate changes. Even then, it'd be better if they traded some of that crit for morale/mits/other survivability, instead of capping a stat they already know they can get extra of in a raid.
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    Has the range issue been fixed on bullroarer? Probably the main thing that tips me away from traiting IDOME as a must have is that it doesn't cover the whole fellowship all the time.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Yep, IDoME is definitely pulling ahead as a must have legendary (once again).

    I can forsee the 4R/3B raiding build continuing to be dominant because of FB, IDoME, and OS.

    Edit:
    With the latest stat changes, it almost feels like IDoME is starting to move closer to core functionality than it has ever been before.....

    While FB can be dropped while tanking (especially if SotD becomes a self target), IDoME is becoming just a bit too good to pass up.
    I'm sorry, but I don't understand nor agree with the rationale here - I don't think IDOME is that useful, personally. I only ever use it when soloing! I always run 5 (something) + 2 (something); those legendary capstones are just too useful. When grouping, I always also use Fellowship-Brother. But while people can gear up to improve their own ICPR and stats, they can't give themselves an on-demand +35% damage buff. And that can come in handy very frequently. I know IDOME will add to whatever people can self-improve to achieve, but after a point stats and ICPR are "good enough". So my third mandatory legendary is almost always OB.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belaeren View Post
    I'm sorry, but I don't understand nor agree with the rationale here - I don't think IDOME is that useful, personally. I only ever use it when soloing! I always run 5 (something) + 2 (something); those legendary capstones are just too useful. When grouping, I always also use Fellowship-Brother. But while people can gear up to improve their own ICPR and stats, they can't give themselves an on-demand +35% damage buff. And that can come in handy very frequently. I know IDOME will add to whatever people can self-improve to achieve, but after a point stats and ICPR are "good enough". So my third mandatory legendary is almost always OB.
    I think it just mostly depends on the captain. For example: Fellowship-Brother is great if you are running in Song or Blade brother, but if you are a main-healing Captain running Shield Brother on the tank for the extra healing power it's a pretty underwhelming trait in my opinion, so In Defense of Middle Earth makes a worthy replacement in a situation like that.

  21. #21
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    Personally, I'd like to see IDOME converted to a normal class skill toggle. Replace the legendary slot with one that strengthens our pet considerably, enough to make viable in groups. For those who prefer a banner, the change would allow for more captains slotting OB when IDOME was previously used, therefore increasing DPS in a small yet direct way for said capt's.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aztec_Soul View Post
    Personally, I'd like to see IDOME converted to a normal class skill toggle. Replace the legendary slot with one that strengthens our pet considerably, enough to make viable in groups. For those who prefer a banner, the change would allow for more captains slotting OB when IDOME was previously used, therefore increasing DPS in a small yet direct way for said capt's.
    I would like this a lot.

  23. #23
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    anyone have the numbers for the reduced fate?

    from the patch notes:
    ■ Reduced the Fate contribution from In Defence of Middle-Earth
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  24. #24
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    It was 26 on the last Bullroarer build. Haven't logged in on live yet.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My opinions are my own!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    It was 26 on the last Bullroarer build. Haven't logged in on live yet.
    thank you, sir-ma'am (your pic/sig combo confuses me!)
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