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  1. #1

    stat changes and gear in the new update

    well, i for one am not happy with the stat changes in U-10. however, if they add fate to the agi gear come u-10 that will help somewhat to alleviate the pain. if not, well my hunters going on the bench until they fix this god-awful mess they made.

    still not exactly happy im losing any crit at all with my current set up though.

    also, can someone on BR actually post any of the stuff that drops from the scaled stuff?
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  2. #2
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    Fate will need to be added to every piece of moors gear to supplement the crit loss from the nerf of agility. Anything short of that is a complete nerf for hunters, same with PvE really. I wont grind again on my hunter, they will loose money. While its fun as hell to go back and forth with hunters on the forums about PvP this is a clear nerf, they certainly didnt need this. I wouldnt be shocked if more threw in the towel completely.

    I know I wont grind more gear for fate stats, not happening.


  3. #3
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    Not sure if anyone else is in the same boat as me...

    But on Bullroarer my crit rating went down, and my ranged crit is LOWER than my melee crit. That can't be working right on a hunter...
    Valondon - Level 100 Hunter
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    Ilodid - Level Something Champion
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    I hunt on Arkenstone

  4. #4
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    Even with the changes to fate you are still better off going for raw crit. Fate is more useful for pve hunters looking for the massive boost to icpr.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  5. #5
    Let's look at a bigger picture:
    -Agility gives less Crit, Fate gives more Crit.
    -Warden gets Agility and therefore a lot new intresting items will be accessible to hunters.
    -Critical Defense will be accessible to all classes.
    And more important:
    Critical Rating now increases both chance to critically hit and the magnitudes of both your critical and devastating critical hits. Critical Hit chance caps or conversion rates have not been altered by this change.
    Yes you may have to grind new gear... sth that rarely happens on new content updates i know (ironic). You better never start playing a warden, or you may realise that it is nice to just have to grind a few pieces of new gear.
    You can gain a lot more survivability. Which will be pretty intresting for PVMP if you stop thinking of DMG > all (despite the fact that you actually gain battlefield promotion which will boost all freeps).
    Hunters will probably still be able to cap crit and even with less crit you will probably don't even loose DPS.

    The current BR build has not included all changes. So relax you got the best working class, since it was never needed to retune it from scratch. Wait and see what actually will happen to your individual Hunter when u10 is live.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by llRaidenll View Post
    Let's look at a bigger picture:
    -Agility gives less Crit, Fate gives more Crit.
    -Warden gets Agility and therefore a lot new intresting items will be accessible to hunters.
    -Critical Defense will be accessible to all classes.
    And more important:


    Yes you may have to grind new gear... sth that rarely happens on new content updates i know (ironic). You better never start playing a warden, or you may realise that it is nice to just have to grind a few pieces of new gear.
    You can gain a lot more survivability. Which will be pretty intresting for PVMP if you stop thinking of DMG > all (despite the fact that you actually gain battlefield promotion which will boost all freeps).
    Hunters will probably still be able to cap crit and even with less crit you will probably don't even loose DPS.

    The current BR build has not included all changes. So relax you got the best working class, since it was never needed to retune it from scratch. Wait and see what actually will happen to your individual Hunter when u10 is live.
    typical warrrden meddling (sigh)... now i have to set it straight...


    you completely left out the part that said crit defence was getting buffed to counter crit mag changes.... essentially nullifying the buff to crit values IF the crit defence/crit values stay the same as pre-u10 (and we all know that we are getting hit with a nerf to crit or a reshuffle of stats.... regardless)

    so out crit will drop while mob crit defense gets buffed and gets more value (in points) added. Dont get me started on PVMP and that whole complex mess.....



    I like how you say that:

    -Warden gets Agility and therefore a lot new interesting items will be accessible to hunters.

    we benefit from another classes change..... how nice. the accidental "fallout" from warden changes (which frankly look like a sizeable buff to DPS wardens) is that Hunters may be able to snatch a few pieces of gear that will actually be worth the bytes that hold its info.... well, IF they actually add it to our loot tables (highly questionable).....

    Now devs will be making their agil gear to work for wardens.... not "that bow class we made back in Shadows of Angmar.. whats it called?"


    When will other classes "accidentally" get a boost from HUNTER buffs and changes?





    my crystal ball prediction: (I have not been wrong as of yet since i started with these back in U6)


    Hunters will find that they are more or less off where they were before... suffering only minor scrapes and bruises (on top of the 100 other "scrapes and bruises" that we have incurred over the past 3 xpacs)

    BUT

    -Light/tactical classes will get large buffs in DPS and survival due to fate/will changes to crit/ tact mit
    -Champs will be ever more desirable, since their power problems have been solved with new power pools and new 5+ parry per might (+3 from live)
    -All of the above will benefit from the battle promo innatley more since 1 point of their morale is = to 3-4 of ours due to their buffs in survival

  7. #7
    in short this is how it will be and will always be (has been used before and will be used again as a good analogy):

    Death by 1000 Cuts: The way a major negative change, which happens slowly in many unnoticed increments, is not perceived as objectionable if it took place in a single step or short period.

    And i quote from Easter Island: Gradually trees became fewer, smaller, and less important. By the time the last fruit-bearing adult palm tree was cut, palms had long since ceased to be of economic significance. That left only smaller and smaller palm saplings to clear each year, along with other bushes and treelets. No one would have noticed the felling of the last small palm.
    Last edited by Legonist; Feb 03 2013 at 10:00 PM.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post
    in short this is how it will be and will always be (has been used before and will be used again as a good analogy):

    Death by 1000 Cuts: The way a major negative change, which happens slowly in many unnoticed increments, is not perceived as objectionable.
    hey! I said that on the other thread yesterday!

    yep that's pretty much it. but Id like to add one more part to add to your articulation of that analogy that might paint a more vivid picture:




    Death by a thousand cuts

    You *accidentally* are cut a thousand times by a rusty knife (because intentional cuts would require the knife wielder to acknowledge your existence)
    Your peers are, on the other hand, getting gifts and massages at "La Uber Leet Spa" and/or kicking back and enjoying a more/less peaceful and useful existence.
    Your enemies (creeps) are pumping iron and tears at the gym, and getting buffed by the same guy that cut your.
    Your "so called" friends: champs/minis/wardens, are laughing at you while you bleed.
    Your enemies come and throw raw sewage at you. You become infected and fall deathly ill
    Your "friends" laugh.
    A champ comes up to you and kicks you in the teeth and spits on you.
    The rest laugh, except the burg... who somewhat understands your pain, but does nothing but watch.



    At least that's what it looks like from the perspective of someone who has played since before the warden class existed. Opinions may differ.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post

    And i quote from Easter Island: Gradually trees became fewer, smaller, and less important. By the time the last fruit-bearing adult palm tree was cut, palms had long since ceased to be of economic significance. That left only smaller and smaller palm saplings to clear each year, along with other bushes and treelets. No one would have noticed the felling of the last small palm.
    ... And then, once all of the palms were gone, the people of the island realized that they had no more palms to build boats out of, and so they were stranded, on a barren desert island, all the palms nuts gone, all the fertile land that could hold their crops was contaminated by the salty sea spray that the palms had once protected against. Starvation and warfare set in, causing the once thriving paradise to become a vicious conflict zone over the few pools of fresh water that remained. All that was left were the "champion moai" doing nothing but sitting there silently, like the lumps of rock they were. All the people's trees had gone into their raising and carving.

    and then the people realized:

    Doh! we shouldn't have cut all the tree's down!


    -The real world Lorax story

  10. #10
    lendas &&&& my thread. you're bad and annyoing
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    typical warrrden meddling (sigh)...
    (Cooky-Troll-Cooky-Troll-Cooky)
    You want to give me more r's? Who do you think you are? A hunter wants to tell wardens how good they are... nice try but just ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    now i have to set it straight...

    you completely left out the part that said crit defence was getting buffed to counter crit mag changes.... essentially nullifying the buff to crit values IF the crit defence/crit values stay the same as pre-u10 (and we all know that we are getting hit with a nerf to crit or a reshuffle of stats.... regardless)

    so out crit will drop while mob crit defense gets buffed and gets more value (in points) added. Dont get me started on PVMP and that whole complex mess.....
    Maybe you should inform yourself better before you start setting things "straight".

    Crit atm:
    Modifiers for Crit is 1.5 and for devestate 2.0 plus any modifiers you can get from relic, traits and similar.
    Crit with U10:
    The same as above with the additional modifiers you gain from your Critical Rating.
    Let's look at Crit Defense right now:
    reduces Crit magnitude based on it's value. Applies to signature or greater mobs.
    with U10:
    reduces Crit magnitude and chance based on it's value. Applies to signature or greater mobs.

    It was never mentioned, that the Crit Defense on Mobs will get higher or lower, the mag stays the same way as it is right now. When Crit Defense was introduced the reduction to crit has been the original modifier, but was changed to mag, so we already had both versions and noone straight had any problems with it, why should anyone have a problem now if both apply? Oh yes i forgot the ppl who knew everything better before it actually happened...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    I like how you say that:

    -Warden gets Agility and therefore a lot new interesting items will be accessible to hunters.

    we benefit from another classes change..... how nice. the accidental "fallout" from warden changes (which frankly look like a sizeable buff to DPS wardens) is that Hunters may be able to snatch a few pieces of gear that will actually be worth the bytes that hold its info.... well, IF they actually add it to our loot tables (highly questionable).....

    Now devs will be making their agil gear to work for wardens.... not "that bow class we made back in Shadows of Angmar.. whats it called?"

    When will other classes "accidentally" get a boost from HUNTER buffs and changes?
    Sorry if you have:
    -no option to buy items
    -kinnies/friends that share loot with you, if they don't need it.
    In that case you may have to grind a few items to be at crit cap, yeah that might be impossible for a 1-2-3-player.

    New gear will be availible for every class, it is still a content upgrade and not a "we change the main stat from warden"-update. The change to agility is made to have less classes based on might and to have more options for upcoming items. After all the possibilities to equip a Hunter will raise, no matter if you like it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    my crystal ball prediction
    After all this is all you do. Staring into a crystal ball. (Troll-Derail-Troll-Derail)
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by llRaidenll View Post
    It was never mentioned, that the Crit Defense on Mobs will get higher or lower,
    I think he was referring to this

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Critical Defence for mobs

    • Signature or Greater mobs now have Critical Defence with the amount increasing based on mob type.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post

    Critical Defence Changes

    • Monster Play
      • The amount of Critical Defence provided by the innate Armour Passive has been reduced. We wanted to create more parity between Freep and Creep access to Critical Defence and felt that the base values were so high they did not encourage investment in Critical Protection Corruptions.
      • The amount of Critical Defence provided by Critcial Protection Corruptiosn has been increased to 1376 per Corruption.




    Critical Rating Revision

    • Critical Rating now increases both chance to critically hit and the magnitudes of both your critical and devastating critical hits. Critical Hit chance caps or conversion rates have not been altered by this change.
    • All skills (unless otherwise stated in the skill) have a base 1.5x Critical Damage and 2.0 Devastating Critical Damage. Critical Rating now adds to those values.
    • Critical Defence's conversion rate to Critical Damage Reduction has been modified to be a counter stat to Critical Rating.
    • Critical Defence will now be available on Armour, Jewelry, and Shields for all classes.



    Critical Defence for mobs

    • Signature or Greater mobs now have Critical Defence with the amount increasing based on mob type.


    translation:

    buff to creep crit defense ability
    buff to crit defense to effectively counter the increase in crit mag
    mobs get more crit defense.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    translation:

    buff to creep crit defense ability
    buff to crit defense to effectively counter the increase in crit mag
    mobs get more crit defense.
    buff to creep crit defense corruptions, nerf to base crit defense on creeps, more base dmg on freeps -> less other defensive corruptions to keep up the same crit defense as on live -> more damage on creeps

    the base crit defense of a creep was high enough to not have a real need to slot in crit defense corruption, that's why the base defense gets lowered and the corruption is increased, yes a creep can slot 6 crit defenses but he can also slot mitigations, morale, damage ... you can be sure to do more damage on creeps or by worst get less damage from them and you don't have to worry if you only play pve because you'll rarely see one there

    btw on beta my warg got 6.1k crit defense, you know how much mag reduction this is? 41.8%
    i don't even know how much reduction it is on live because i never had such a high crit defense rating on live i only know his crit reduction is above 41.8%
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  15. #15
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    I just came out from Bullroarer.., and this is what i can see so far

    a) Fate is feels OP now... a mere 400 fate gives you 3k ICPR. ICPR jewelries are kinda useless now. there is no point having ICPR virtues (eg tolerance) either, as the +81 ICPR is barely worth 10 fate... the ICPR ratings on jewelries have to change, or rather more likely than not, they are going to change the ICPR-Fate formulas. I seriously doubt this is going to go live like this. But if they don't, grinding fate virtues (idealism and empathy gives you a good bang for your buck (about 400-500 more ICPR)

    b) the Crit nerf is really painful... I went down from 9k+ crit to barely 7k crit rating... sure, I can give up my 4 pieces of ICPR jewelries for crit jewelries, but i can't seem to find any agilty rings with decent crit ratings... (and not everyone can afford the eomer jewelries i got free from the "level-up trainer", after 3 pieces of the eomer jewelries i managed to bring my crit back up to 9k... ) expect the eomer jewelries to cost even more after the update. rabbit and fox jewelries can't measure up to them anymore.

    c) elder symbol for first age is skirmish camp barter (sweet! i can finally realistically get my first age bow ) ... the barter is still gated by completion of the erebor instances though, you need 288 seals if you only completed the tier 1 instances, and the number goes down to 100+ seals if you complete the tier 2 challenges. (probably subject to change... a lot of ranting on allowing "casuals" to have access to a first age weapon)

    d) barely felt the removal of the 2-piece and 4-piece stat bonus on the hybolt armor. on the other hand, having earlier access to the 5-piece skill bonus is really nice. I am running with -4s cooldown on blood arrow, i might change that with the shorter cooldown for ISB on a 4-piece bowmaster set, as i find that i burn my morale too quickly on a training dummy... ISB rocks (for now)... the crit chance is a lot higher with the "1 arrow crit, all crit" change, and after i brought my crit rating back to my target of 10k, it generates focus really quickly. power stays at a balmy 4k even with burn hot, you will be hard pressed to bring your power down to less than 3k (and i doubt that it is even possible if you have a ICPR of 2k)... p/s OCPR is a ridiculous 9k at <400 fate

    e) can't seem to build any crit defence. No idea what gear give them, and the gear i currently have access to don't give any crit defence. Haven't tried PvMP to see how important crit defence is.

    summary: our DPS shouldn't be that badly affected if you can trade away your excess ICPR for crit ratings. crit jewelries and off-hand weapons will probably be worth a lot more after the update if it stays this way in bullroarer. champions once again would be the class that gains the most from this update (not sure about the caster class, very little experience with them), and with their power problems removed, (plus the new ability to stack more crits) they would undoubtly become the number 1 DPS class (ST and AOE) and we will be a distant 3rd (and only ST)... (i think full atunement rune keepers would deal much more damage than us, but i am not sure how badly affected they would be by the common power pool). Not to mention that their avoidance got buffed by their new parry rating bring primarily based off might... but they have been trying to balance that by raising the power cost, so it is still a work in progress.

    wish-list: crit rating to be 1.5X agility (down from 2X), or else give us more evasion per point of agility (from 2 to 4 ) to compensate that loss, that would help our survivibility. I wouldn't object if the parry rating per point of agility is increased as well
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jaecynt View Post
    I just came out from Bullroarer.., and this is what i can see so far

    a) Fate is feels OP now... a mere 400 fate gives you 3k ICPR. ICPR jewelries are kinda useless now. there is no point having ICPR virtues (eg tolerance) either, as the +81 ICPR is barely worth 10 fate... the ICPR ratings on jewelries have to change, or rather more likely than not, they are going to change the ICPR-Fate formulas. I seriously doubt this is going to go live like this. But if they don't, grinding fate virtues (idealism and empathy gives you a good bang for your buck (about 400-500 more ICPR)

    b) the Crit nerf is really painful... I went down from 9k+ crit to barely 7k crit rating... sure, I can give up my 4 pieces of ICPR jewelries for crit jewelries, but i can't seem to find any agilty rings with decent crit ratings... (and not everyone can afford the eomer jewelries i got free from the "level-up trainer", after 3 pieces of the eomer jewelries i managed to bring my crit back up to 9k... ) expect the eomer jewelries to cost even more after the update. rabbit and fox jewelries can't measure up to them anymore.

    c) elder symbol for first age is skirmish camp barter (sweet! i can finally realistically get my first age bow ) ... the barter is still gated by completion of the erebor instances though, you need 288 seals if you only completed the tier 1 instances, and the number goes down to 100+ seals if you complete the tier 2 challenges. (probably subject to change... a lot of ranting on allowing "casuals" to have access to a first age weapon)

    d) barely felt the removal of the 2-piece and 4-piece stat bonus on the hybolt armor. on the other hand, having earlier access to the 5-piece skill bonus is really nice. I am running with -4s cooldown on blood arrow, i might change that with the shorter cooldown for ISB on a 4-piece bowmaster set, as i find that i burn my morale too quickly on a training dummy... ISB rocks (for now)... the crit chance is a lot higher with the "1 arrow crit, all crit" change, and after i brought my crit rating back to my target of 10k, it generates focus really quickly. power stays at a balmy 4k even with burn hot, you will be hard pressed to bring your power down to less than 3k (and i doubt that it is even possible if you have a ICPR of 2k)... p/s OCPR is a ridiculous 9k at <400 fate

    e) can't seem to build any crit defence. No idea what gear give them, and the gear i currently have access to don't give any crit defence. Haven't tried PvMP to see how important crit defence is.

    summary: our DPS shouldn't be that badly affected if you can trade away your excess ICPR for crit ratings. crit jewelries and off-hand weapons will probably be worth a lot more after the update if it stays this way in bullroarer. champions once again would be the class that gains the most from this update (not sure about the caster class, very little experience with them), and with their power problems removed, (plus the new ability to stack more crits) they would undoubtly become the number 1 DPS class (ST and AOE) and we will be a distant 3rd (and only ST)... (i think full atunement rune keepers would deal much more damage than us, but i am not sure how badly affected they would be by the common power pool). Not to mention that their avoidance got buffed by their new parry rating bring primarily based off might... but they have been trying to balance that by raising the power cost, so it is still a work in progress.

    wish-list: crit rating to be 1.5X agility (down from 2X), or else give us more evasion per point of agility (from 2 to 4 ) to compensate that loss, that would help our survivibility. I wouldn't object if the parry rating per point of agility is increased as well
    wow, an actual constructive response. thank you!

    very insteresting too. will have to see what things are like when it all goes live. although honestly the best part about you post, to me at least, is that we now have out of combat regen!
    Last edited by 0987654321; Feb 09 2013 at 04:23 PM.
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaecynt View Post
    I just came out from Bullroarer.., and this is what i can see so far

    ((dot.dot.dot.))

    wish-list: crit rating to be 1.5X agility (down from 2X), or else give us more evasion per point of agility (from 2 to 4 ) to compensate that loss, that would help our survivibility. I wouldn't object if the parry rating per point of agility is increased as well
    +Rep!! Great analysis.

    Hope you're wrong about making the Elder symbols harder for casual players. I guess I am one, as I don't raid a whole lot... But I'd sure like to see what a shiny First Age bow could do at 85. My kin is really small, we have a total of five characters at cap. We all rely on PUGs to go after the big brass rings, and my kinmates (Champs, Mini) who aren't Hunters seem to have a much easier time doing that.

    Thanks again for the point-by-point!
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