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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennicide View Post
    No one can make any assumptions about how this will affect hunter dps until it's clear how this will work across classes:



    This could end up as a big boost to hunter/burg dps.
    Agility was

    1 point of Agility = 2 points increase in Ranged Critical Rating

    Will be

    Agility will now provide 1 point of crit rating whereas Fate will provide 2.5
    This isnt an assumption, its about as clear as a nerf as there ever has been. Just about every hunter ive seen has stacked agility its crit rating has now been halfed. Are they compensating for it otherways? Perhaps but i cant see where its been articulated clearly, so im basing my current position on the facts I can dicern.

    Ill be happy if you prove me wrong.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murky_Majare View Post
    Our frequent crits are large part of why we get to keep our fourth (fifth?) spot on the dps list.
    If you can't make more dps than any capt, warden, rk, minstrel, lore master or guardian you should delete your hunter.

    About burgs and champs, you should be pretty close.
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Agility was

    Are they compensating for it otherways? Perhaps but i cant see where its been articulated clearly, so im basing my current position on the facts I can dicern.
    Magnitudes are some way to compensate as they are global - close or better than additional two Crit Multiplier legacies if 20-30% bonus from ordinary Crit Rating is going to remain unchanged.

    Whether or how it is neutered by adding critical defense to meaningful mobs or resulting degradation of stats remains to be seen. And calculated by someone who still enjoys that.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    Magnitudes are some way to compensate as they are global - close or better than additional two Crit Multiplier legacies if 20-30% bonus from ordinary Crit Rating is going to remain unchanged.

    Whether or how it is neutered by adding critical defense to meaningful mobs or resulting degradation of stats remains to be seen. And calculated by someone who still enjoys that.
    Ok but this is still an issue:

    Agility will now provide 1 point of crit rating whereas Fate will provide 2.5
    The magnitudes are pulled from the crit rating which agility contributed to ranged crit rating. So if they are consolidating the effect of agility on ranged crit (maybe they arent, still havent seen it articulated clearly) then its a net nerf. Might get more magnitudes but im going to need to stack more fate to increase the chance for the magnitude. Eitherway Im going to need to put more fate into the build and thats a very unappealing prospect for me personally.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    hmmmmm.... no offense, but this smells bogus.


    current agil provides something like 1.5 to 1.75 crit/agil for Hunters.


    so unless you are getting boatloads of your crit off of flat out +crit rating stuff with a boatload of fate...

    Ok, my numbers:

    Agility: 2880 = 2880 crit
    Fate: 295 = 738 crit
    Total crit = 3618 crit

    Base crit from gear: 8319 crit

    11937 crit.

    = 22.5 - 22.7ish % , I actually did my math wrong earlier and my crit is higher than I had thought. I won't be changing my build any, given that my crit won't be taking a major hit. If your crit does, then you're doing something wrong since a lot of agility based gear already has fate and most of your cry won't be coming from agility or crit anyways, Bracer of the Huntsman comes to mind. This isn't so much of a nerf to the PvE hunter, this was to be expected since I was already over capped on crit anyways, it was too easy to cap crit.
    Last edited by QueenArleth; Jan 31 2013 at 10:33 AM.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiNdA-LoS View Post
    If you can't make more dps than any capt, warden, rk, minstrel, lore master or guardian you should delete your hunter.

    About burgs and champs, you should be pretty close.
    IF your not #1 in dps over a sustained period of time your playing your hunter wrong. IMO 90% of the hunters out there don't know how to play their toon.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Any chance you could pop into the moors on bullroare and get some samples for a PvP build? Ive put a lot of time into my hunter grinding out to get more agility. Id just like to see how things shake out in a pvp build, if my damage in the moors goes down even a fraction thats an unacceptable nerf IMHO. I like a challenge but less DPS for a hunter in the moors = a waste of time.
    My current Pre U10 build: 12,681 crit = 24.1%.
    This is with both moors rings, and the full audacity set.

    My Bullroarer/Post U10 build: 10,972 crit = 21.9% crit.
    Again with both moors rings and the full audacity set.

    This is with 2499 agility, 220 fate, and 881 vit.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    My current Pre U10 build: 12,681 crit = 24.1%.
    This is with both moors rings, and the full audacity set.

    My Bullroarer/Post U10 build: 10,972 crit = 21.9% crit.
    Again with both moors rings and the full audacity set.

    This is with 2499 agility, 220 fate, and 881 vit.
    Thanks for testing it, much appreciated.

  9. #34
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    you forgot to discuss this aswell:

    Will now provides 2 points of Tactical Mitigation to compensate for the loss of power contribution
    that means that light armour classes will have way more tact mitigation than us, way!

    Hunters are already struggling to survive, considering that we have NO (useful) ablities and that EVERY role we can perform is performed way better and more effective by another class. Hell, we don't have even the highest single target dps (which should be our "main" role in a raid/grp). Our perform in Ettens is ridiculous, we can't even think about beating an opponent of same skill and experience. Now another nerf has arrived. 2.5% crit may not sound big deal but it is already vital for us. If things continues to go this way, no hunter will ever again have a place in a serious raid/grp. I love this game, respect Turbine for their work, but please, don't destroy my class!
    Last edited by Gambald; Jan 31 2013 at 11:32 AM.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambald View Post
    you forgot to discuss this aswell:



    that means that light armour classes will have way more tact mitigation than us, way!

    Hunters are already struggling to survive, considering that we have NO (useful) ablities and that EVERY role we can perform is performed way better and more effective by another class. Hell, we don't have even the highest single target dps (which should be our "main" role in a raid/grp). Our perform in Ettens is ridiculous, we can't even think about beating an opponent of same skill and experience. Now another nerf has arrived. 2.5% crit may not sound big deal but it is already vital for us. If things continues to go this way, no hunter will ever again have a place in a serious raid/grp. I love this game, respect Turbine for their work, but please, don't destroy my class!
    Yes thats another stick in the eye, but for me on my hunter its about the DPS. If they nerf it I cant justify paying to play freepside anymore. I mean its not my only toon, but hunter is the one i enjoy the most freepside, dont nerf my DPS its keeping my butt alive.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Waylen View Post
    IF your not #1 in dps over a sustained period of time your playing your hunter wrong. IMO 90% of the hunters out there don't know how to play their toon.
    If 90% of hunters, most of which are long term hunters don't know how to play their class then that is a sign clear as glass that the class is broken. A 90% inefficiency rating is a utterly horrible stat which shows just by the shear large number of the stat that the class is truly broken or does not give the players enough good/smart choices that they can use to be better at their class.

    As for the 10%, good for them (they get an invisible cookie) but the 90% is more important and they should be given a better class to understand.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post
    If 90% of hunters, most of which are long term hunters don't know how to play their class then that is a sign clear as glass that the class is broken. A 90% inefficiency rating is a utterly horrible stat which shows just by the shear large number of the stat that the class is truly broken or does not give the players enough good/smart choices that they can use to be better at their class.

    As for the 10%, good for them (they get an invisible cookie) but the 90% is more important and they should be given a better class to understand.
    Hunters are general a "first toon" class because its easy to learn. As such must people don't fully explore the hunter's capabilities. There are certainly things that need fixing - such as a more transparent threat system or medium armour mids ( not just a hunter problem) That doesn't mean hunters are broken.
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  13. #38
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    This is preliminary but I have been testing my dps on the dummies on bullroarer and it looks like my dps is at least as good as it was before. With the new power system , it may be a bit better. A little bit of retooling toward crit and I might be dishing out some good numbers. When I have the time I'll post some samples.
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  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    I won't be changing my build any, given that my crit won't be taking a major hit. If your crit does, then you're doing something wrong since a lot of agility based gear already has fate and most of your cry won't be coming from agility or crit anyways, Bracer of the Huntsman comes to mind. This isn't so much of a nerf to the PvE hunter, this was to be expected since I was already over capped on crit anyways, it was too easy to cap crit.
    As a pvp hunter there is no fate on the moors gear, so big nerf. Bracer of the Huntsman is nice but I dont have power issues, I have morale issues in the moors so go for agil/morale/crit instead of agil/power/crit.
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  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Waylen View Post
    IF your not #1 in dps over a sustained period of time your playing your hunter wrong. IMO 90% of the hunters out there don't know how to play their toon.
    If I had a copper for every time someone said L2P...
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  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tithias View Post
    As a pvp hunter there is no fate on the moors gear, so big nerf. Bracer of the Huntsman is nice but I dont have power issues, I have morale issues in the moors so go for agil/morale/crit instead of agil/power/crit.
    Oh come on, I hate the changes but its not that bad, Battle Promotions will help a lot out there, we're also having a good pvp set I think,but as its not official and Im not even sure I bette stay quiet about it.


    Anyway Im a hunter just as you are, r12 just as you are, but more not that pesimist, I used to solo all the way to r12, in fact I don't play since RoI 'cause real life stuff, I hate how weak we are atm, this is not a QQ but a fact that every high ranked creep can beat faceroll us without much drama, but u10 seems to bring good things for us.... We know nothing, yea we're loosing a bit of critic, but hell yea, what about new relics and so? Maybe we can easily hit the cap.

    None of you has some hopes? I do, I think that u10 will be nice for us....

    Ah and just reading above, we hunters are THE BEST SINGLE TARGET DPS class, but without captains we burn all the power so quick, and we're also an aggro machines, which is not good, but if we go all out withtout taking care of other things, we do, we are.


    See you around the middle earth Hunters, Let's hope u10 brings us GOOD TIMES! I really hope so
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tithias View Post
    As a pvp hunter there is no fate on the moors gear, so big nerf. Bracer of the Huntsman is nice but I dont have power issues, I have morale issues in the moors so go for agil/morale/crit instead of agil/power/crit.
    Hence the reason why I specified PvE hunter. I have my share of PvP and I've already posted what my crit would be. Furthermore, you clearly aren't taking battlefield promotions into account. At r7, I get a +8% morale/damage gain. That's almost a Motivate.

    I don't look for agility/power/crit. I look for crit/physical mastery/agility&fate, just putting that out there since you mentioned the power thing on the Bracer.
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  18. #43
    Hmm, just wondering what everyones morale lvls are at if you all have capped crit? Now, im not yet fully geared but ive only got 10kish crit but im running almost 9k morale as well.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    Hence the reason why I specified PvE hunter. I have my share of PvP and I've already posted what my crit would be. Furthermore, you clearly aren't taking battlefield promotions into account. At r7, I get a +8% morale/damage gain. That's almost a Motivate.

    I don't look for agility/power/crit. I look for crit/physical mastery/agility&fate, just putting that out there since you mentioned the power thing on the Bracer.
    Any way you slice it: Agility got a nerf. When Agility gets nerfed, Hunters get nerfed.

    we went from 1.75 crit/agility to 1 crit/agility

    that means that a 2k agility Hunter will lose 1500 crit right off the bat from agility. Now that may not seem like much, and could be made up by whatever pathetic amounts of fate on our gear, but It's still a blow to an already weak class.


    and that's the point: Incremental nerfs to a weak class while most everyone else gets buffs.

    net result (of almost every update, including this one): Hunters take 1 step back, everyone else moves 2 steps forward. Net result? Hunters are 3 steps behind...

    well... by now its more like 18 steps behind.

  20. #45
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    If you relied on agility for crit, then I can completely understand your concerns. However, if you, like myself, relied on BASE crit as opposed to a stat, then your arguments being that hunters were nerfed is invalid. They made it more difficult to cap. Problem? I was already close to cap with just one lvl 85 2nd ager and some lvl 75 jewellery. That's a problem. After completely gearing out my hunter, I found myself over cap, and I always asked cappies for parry instead of crit. That too is a problem.

    I assure you that come U10, I will find no problems with capping crit and I will not have to reduce my agility and therefore my physical mastery in any way. If you are finding it difficult to cap, something is wrong.

    I am by no means happy with this change, however. My captain is built on might and agility. The amount of might/fate gear does not compare to how much hunters have available to them without even trying. Of the top of my head I can only think of veracity that is might/fate. Of hunter gear, there is the Moria Stone Necklace, A crafted club, etc.

    I reiterate this with utmost confidence, I do not find this to be a nerf, and I have already posted my Pre/post numbers, my hunter remains the same.

    (Again this is my PvE build. Of my PvP build, well that needs some work, but with upcoming changes to monster play as well, it should balance itself out.)
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  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    I assure you that come U10, I will find no problems with capping crit and I will not have to reduce my agility and therefore my physical mastery in any way. If you are finding it difficult to cap, something is wrong.
    Problem is, we are then trading vit for Fate, more dps for lower health aka survivability.
    The nerf wasn't about damage, it was about making hunters squishier than before whereas other classes are hardly affected by these changes. In solo play it is not a problem, but in raids and pvmp you are going to have problems as a hunter even with the battlefield promotions.

    Then again, I am holding back on my opinion on calling it a nerf until I've seen the stats on new gears.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lioheart View Post
    Problem is, we are then trading vit for Fate, more dps for lower health aka survivability.
    The nerf wasn't about damage, it was about making hunters squishier than before whereas other classes are hardly affected by these changes. In solo play it is not a problem, but in raids and pvmp you are going to have problems as a hunter even with the battlefield promotions.

    Then again, I am holding back on my opinion on calling it a nerf until I've seen the stats on new gears.
    Sigh. Clearly no one pays attention. Again, for the third time. Most of my crit comes from BASE crit, not fate. I won't be trading anything at all. My build will remain the same.

    In raids, I'm fine, if I happen to need a bit more vit, I have gear I can switch out. And again, I already acknowledged that PvP is going to encounter some problems, nothing the new changes to PvP won't help to balance out.
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  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    Sigh. Clearly no one pays attention. Again, for the third time. Most of my crit comes from BASE crit, not fate. I won't be trading anything at all. My build will remain the same.

    In raids, I'm fine, if I happen to need a bit more vit, I have gear I can switch out. And again, I already acknowledged that PvP is going to encounter some problems, nothing the new changes to PvP won't help to balance out.
    Happy that you will not be affected and will probably be the only hunter that isn't nerfed like the rest of us. And as for the battlefield promotions that will add damage but will not add the crit that we are losing.
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  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    Sigh. Clearly no one pays attention. Again, for the third time. Most of my crit comes from BASE crit, not fate. I won't be trading anything at all. My build will remain the same.

    In raids, I'm fine, if I happen to need a bit more vit, I have gear I can switch out. And again, I already acknowledged that PvP is going to encounter some problems, nothing the new changes to PvP won't help to balance out.
    Then you hadn't been doing your reading on the updates then and actually pay attention to the changes.

    1. Agility now contribute 1:1 for CR.
    2. Fate now contributes 1:1.5 if i remember correctly meaning it's better for those who cares about big hits.
    3. To maximize dps now we must either lose PM/parry/evade or vit/morale/mits for Fate just for the CR it gives.

    Had you actually gone on bullroarer? Because I had and loss 2.3k crit rating.

    Also, base crit has nothing to do with the nerf (which is like some 3-5k I'm not sure). It is the the point that agility now contributes less towards CR than Fate meaning we must trade something for higher dps.
    Go ahead and keep your build the same, you likely notice the big change once U10 comes when mobs begins to have crit defense and you keeping that same build because with low fate Post-U10 your crit rate well be no more than around 7.3k with 3k agility.



    Oh and remember what you said?
    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    I assure you that come U10, I will find no problems with capping crit and I will not have to reduce my agility and therefore my physical mastery in any way. If you are finding it difficult to cap, something is wrong.
    You are going to have to say bye bye to vit and morale to get CR at cap aka have lower morale and become squishier to get it capped. We'll have to wait and see what are the new gears are like.
    Last edited by lioheart; Feb 02 2013 at 02:20 AM.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lendas View Post
    Any way you slice it: Agility got a nerf. When Agility gets nerfed, Hunters get nerfed.

    we went from 1.75 crit/agility to 1 crit/agility
    it's only a nerf if the amount lost on crit is more than the amount gained on how agility affects out crit magnitude.

    Crit rating is being nerfed, crit magnitude is being boosted. Once the outcome of this net effect has been calculated we will know whether it's a nerf.

    My guess is that losing 2% crit (or the net effect of 2 out of every 100 shots now not critting) will be easily outweighed by the new crit magnitude.

    In addition, our AOE will be heavily boosted with the "one crit, all crit" rule - ok this will be the same for all classes, but then they don't have a trait that adds 5151 to aoe crit rating, and 25% to the magnitude.
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