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  1. #1

    Bullroarer release notes and crit rating

    On first glance looks like major hit to hunters, with changes to agility/fate and crit ratings. Looks like to maintain crit rating we will have to start stacking fate now as a secondary stat, which for many means less vitality and more sqishiness. We'll see soon enough.....

  2. #2
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    Of course, all things on Bullroarer are subject to change, but right now we (And burglars) are at a fault for a large decrease in critical rating due to this change.

    Before U10
    1 Agility = 1.75 Critical Rating
    1 Fate = 2 Critical Rating

    After U10 (Build 1)
    1 Agility = 1 Critical Rating
    1 Fate = 2.5 Critical Rating


    Definitely a nerf, but note: right now with Bullroarer we won't have power problems ever again (7,000 power with 2,000 ICPR, will definitely be reduced in Build 2)
    Last edited by zalladi; Jan 31 2013 at 03:47 AM. Reason: Incorrect values
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  3. #3
    agil and fate atm is 1.75 crit rating each so the reduce to agil crit is gonna be a huge hit to dps

  4. #4
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    Great screw us up even more. gonna have to give up on vitality to get some crits, not that we arent squishy enough now. well unless we're getting some kind of buff hunter will not be worthy of playing anymore, I was expecting a buff on U10 but i guess ill just start lvling up my RK since hunter isnt worth invensting time into.

  5. #5
    -.- really! i mean really!!!.... another N-E-R-F. This is gonna be very annoying to deal with, it isn't horrible but gives an even better reason why to grab a RK or champ over a hunter. Those class updates they promised in the Q&A should come fast cuz at this rate i may gonna jump ship (game is slowly losing its touch, and these nerfs to my favorite class don't make it better).

    Metaphor: Why should i accept a helping hand when it has kept hitting while?
    Last edited by Legonist; Jan 30 2013 at 06:12 PM.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  6. #6
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    I play a hunter in the moors, I can honestly say I am finally to the point where I am convinced turbine does not like the hunter class. Im not regrinding, they will loose money on me if they nerf my hunter as I pay to bring him to the moors.

    Really some clueless people over there, I mean the hunter is a great toon to play I really enjoy the challenge in the moors. As is its a tough and It keeps me interested because its hard, but this nerf is ridiculous.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    Definitely a nerf, but note: right now with Bullroarer we won't have power problems ever again (7,000 power with 2,000 ICPR, will definitely be reduced in Build 2)
    Burned through my power really fast while doing some parses actually ... and my old gear had way more +icpr and fate than my new one. Have do some way more testing before I can talk about how my dmg is doing.

    Imho this change should be delayed (and though over a couple of times too)

  8. #8
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    Pre U10 I have 13875 crit in my PvE build. Post U10/in Bullroarer, I have 11337. This means a 2.5% reduction in crit (25% to 22.5%)

    A fully geared hunter should have no problems with crit and this should not be too much of an issue given that many pieces already have fate as it is. Most of my crit comes from base crit anyways. U10 won't change a thing for my hunter. My minstrel and cappy however, are not happy with some changes, but that belongs in a different thread

    Creeps: Highly Unimpressed, Babyasparagus, Schleichend | Blood Hand
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    Pre U10 I have 13875 crit in my PvE build. Post U10/in Bullroarer, I have 11337. This means a 2.5% reduction in crit (25% to 22.5%)

    A fully geared hunter should have no problems with crit and this should not be too much of an issue given that many pieces already have fate as it is. Most of my crit comes from base crit anyways. U10 won't change a thing for my hunter. My minstrel and cappy however, are not happy with some changes, but that belongs in a different thread

    Before everyone hyperventilates keep in mind that dps effectiveness is RELATIVE and absolute values don't mean anything. We don't know the full implications yet and how every class will be affected. Also keep in mind that magnitude is also going as a result of crit changes. Hunters/burgs, even with the AGI nurf still have the easiest time reaching high levels of crit rating since their primary stat increases crit along with mastery. STR and Will classes will have lower ratings. We could on a relative basis be getting a huge upgrade since our magnitudes are higher
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    Pre U10 I have 13875 crit in my PvE build. Post U10/in Bullroarer, I have 11337. This means a 2.5% reduction in crit (25% to 22.5%)

    A fully geared hunter should have no problems with crit and this should not be too much of an issue given that many pieces already have fate as it is. Most of my crit comes from base crit anyways. U10 won't change a thing for my hunter. My minstrel and cappy however, are not happy with some changes, but that belongs in a different thread
    Any chance you could pop into the moors on bullroare and get some samples for a PvP build? Ive put a lot of time into my hunter grinding out to get more agility. Id just like to see how things shake out in a pvp build, if my damage in the moors goes down even a fraction thats an unacceptable nerf IMHO. I like a challenge but less DPS for a hunter in the moors = a waste of time.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    I like a challenge but less DPS for a hunter in the moors = a waste of time.
    Agree.
    If hunter gears were to have all 3 vit/agil/fate on their gears then I'm fine, but that's likely not to happen as 2 of them well only appear on a gear (as high stats).

    Really bad nerf, power pool for hunters is a good idea but it will take an effect on your light armor classes but that is for another class. This time turbine is messing around far too much, messing with not one class but 5.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by lioheart View Post
    Agree.
    If hunter gears were to have all 3 vit/agil/fate on their gears then I'm fine, but that's likely not to happen as 2 of them well only appear on a gear (as high stats).

    Really bad nerf, power pool for hunters is a good idea but it will take an effect on your light armor classes but that is for another class. This time turbine is messing around far too much, messing with not one class but 5.
    You arent kidding its a really bad nerf.


  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    You arent kidding its a really bad nerf.
    Better wording: it is a ridiculous nerf! This update has got to be the worst class update.

    Will changes is going to affect 3 classes big time (this is for another thread but pointing it out since i have a cap level rk and lm)
    Agility changes well affect both hunters and burgs.
    With Fate changes it does nothing for your heavies!
    Is it just me or does turbine just love only their heavy classes?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lioheart View Post
    Better wording: it is a ridiculous nerf! This update has got to be the worst class update.

    Will changes is going to affect 3 classes big time (this is for another thread but pointing it out since i have a cap level rk and lm)
    Agility changes well affect both hunters and burgs.
    With Fate changes it does nothing for your heavies!
    Is it just me or does turbine just love only their heavy classes?
    No they love their wardens, champs and mini's thats pretty clear. Im not sure what happened to burgs though, they got on the poop list but they used to be top of the food chain. Its more grind really, and im sure there will be a lot of sales around fate soon. It's really to bad too because I know there are a lot of people who are really invested into their toons and tire of turbine screwing with this &&&&.

    Really a shame, while I know its a game and its not going to ruin my life, lol, it certainly isnt going to get me pumped up to reccomend the MMO to other people. It already has a negative rep in a lot of corners of the web, this will just piss more people off. Its got to be store driven, I cant really think of another reason why a company would blatantly piss off their customers. Guess the most passionate community really is a cash cow, lol good for turbine.


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    Any chance you could pop into the moors on bullroare and get some samples for a PvP build? Ive put a lot of time into my hunter grinding out to get more agility. Id just like to see how things shake out in a pvp build, if my damage in the moors goes down even a fraction thats an unacceptable nerf IMHO. I like a challenge but less DPS for a hunter in the moors = a waste of time.
    I think there is either no new gear in this build or no new gear planned (^^). No time to compare BR with Live, but I can tell you one thing: there is no Fate whatsoever on current Hunter PvMP gear on BR. Wipe incoming though, so... can change anytime now.


    I feel so silly. I actually missed pre-RoI approach to stats, when there was more than Agi and its Vit stepchild to think about if only thanks to caps.

    Now I am suddenly not so sure. Are we aiming for simplicity or for complexity this time?

    Also, Turbine being vague and pushing more seemingly random changes? Oh, yes, this is new
    Last edited by Ferthcott; Jan 30 2013 at 11:58 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    Pre U10 I have 13875 crit in my PvE build. Post U10/in Bullroarer, I have 11337. This means a 2.5% reduction in crit (25% to 22.5%)

    A fully geared hunter should have no problems with crit and this should not be too much of an issue given that many pieces already have fate as it is. Most of my crit comes from base crit anyways. U10 won't change a thing for my hunter. My minstrel and cappy however, are not happy with some changes, but that belongs in a different thread
    hmmmmm.... no offense, but this smells bogus.


    current agil provides something like 1.5 to 1.75 crit/agil for Hunters.


    so unless you are getting boatloads of your crit off of flat out +crit rating stuff with a boatload of fate, IDK how you are getting that low of a difference.

    oh and BTW fate and +crit DO NOT increase our raw damage like agil does...



    any way you slice this, its a NERF. a NERF to what is unarguably THE WEAKEST class in the game. And from what I can gauge, The biggest single one yet.


    oh... and RIP to whatever poor stragglers that are still hanging onto the moors..... because your gear has 0 fate on it whatsoever.






    AGAIN I ASK THE QUESTION


    WHERE IS THE FR*CKIN BOTTOM?!?!?!?!?!

  17. #17
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    First,

    AGI doesn't increase our raw dps. It adds exactly 10 to our PM, 1.75(pre U10) crit, 4 evade and 2 parry. There is no innate damage bonus.

    Secondly after ~32k PM you hit a soft curve so AGI is becoming less important anyway even without the nurf.

    If you consider the fact the our magnitudes will greatly increase after U10 you will see that its really not a nurf. Remember that hunters & burgs will still have the highest crit rating in the game and therefore benefit more from the magnitude increases. Lets wait till this plays out before everyone is up in arms.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  18. #18
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    I wanna see turbine when all the hunters [about 30% of the game atleast on my server] will be pissed off and will stop playing. You are nerfing the WEAKEST CLASS, we have been asking for some kind of buff, so you come and just nerf the &&&& out of us.
    RIP - Hunters.

  19. #19
    Our frequent crits are large part of why we get to keep our fourth (fifth?) spot on the dps list. When that crit is lowered some 20-25% of the bat (2.0-2.5% crit percentage points), we will plummet towards the bottom of the dps list.

    I will not be surprised if even a captain in auto-attack mode will beat our new dps.

    Sure, we can drop vitality to gain some fate, but we are squishy enough already. Our medium armour is like paper and dropping vitality will get us killed by even grey mobs.

    This is terrible for the burglars too.
    Tactical classes seems to gain a lot on the physical classes. Wardens changeover to agility is sure to hurt.

    But I am getting so, so tired over the constant nerfing of the hunters.

    We are free points for the creeps unless we got 11 others protecting us full time.
    There is little use of us in a raid - raids even go with 11 people rather than filling up the last spot with a hunter.
    There is hardly a place for us in a fellowship and no spot in a 3-mans.

    And people still believe that Heart-Seeker is one of the most powerful attacks in the game... like it was the first month when we got it like sixty years ago.

    *Le sigh*

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waylen View Post
    First,

    AGI doesn't increase our raw dps. It adds exactly 10 to our PM, 1.75(pre U10) crit, 4 evade and 2 parry. There is no innate damage bonus.

    Secondly after ~32k PM you hit a soft curve so AGI is becoming less important anyway even without the nurf.

    If you consider the fact the our magnitudes will greatly increase after U10 you will see that its really not a nurf. Remember that hunters & burgs will still have the highest crit rating in the game and therefore benefit more from the magnitude increases. Lets wait till this plays out before everyone is up in arms.
    I think I can find ohhhh about 150 fate across all 85 items to select from, perhaps 300 if skipping a truckload of agility.

    The new agile bracelet has 150 agi? And 4xx morale. And 800 critrate. Zero fate. No vita, just 1 stat junk. Again. Frankly, that is so across all the items.

    The change to Fate is due to not enough people shopping Fate stats bundle. The availability of the stat on stuff is unlikely to change.

    I had better bigger faster tougher and more fun Stats on the Moria barter stuff than any available 75-85.

  21. #21
    No one can make any assumptions about how this will affect hunter dps until it's clear how this will work across classes:

    All skills (unless otherwise stated in the skill) have a base 1.5x Critical Damage and 2.0 Devastating Critical Damage. Critical Rating now adds to those values.
    This could end up as a big boost to hunter/burg dps.
    Jennicide, Lore Master ~ Elcastor, Hunter
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  22. #22
    But it does sound like champs, minstrels and wardens (and to some extent RKs) are continuing to rule the roost and there are even more nerfs to agi DPS classes (not just us hunters but even more so burgs) requiring sacrifices to vit and mits. At least a mob has to run 40 m before 1-shotting us... poor likkle burgie has no such luxury.

    P.S. Glad I kept my Wristband of the Footpad...
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennicide View Post
    No one can make any assumptions about how this will affect hunter dps until it's clear how this will work across classes:



    This could end up as a big boost to hunter/burg dps.
    My old copy on BR has circa 7,5k CR, that shows as additional 20%-ish crit magnitude. 687 CR from Critical Eye seems to be adding further 3,6%, though I was under the impression Combat Log was showing significantly lower values. I'll check again once I am more conscious, once wipe is complete and more recent toon can be copied - and perhaps with another build introduced.

    As for what it could end up as - bosses and wannabe bosses: now with Critical Defense

  24. #24
    Well it's quite obvious, hunters get boned again. We need to turn in vit. for fate and that will make us drop like flies that in combination with our paper armor. Turbine must think there are plenty of hunters to drop dead so what the heck, nerf their crit rate by this update.

    I'll guess we'll see a large drop of hunters playing the game this year.

    Great job Turbine. Guess how many turbine points i'm gonna buy this year?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ferthcott View Post
    I think there is either no new gear in this build or no new gear planned (^^). No time to compare BR with Live, but I can tell you one thing: there is no Fate whatsoever on current Hunter PvMP gear on BR. Wipe incoming though, so... can change anytime now.


    I feel so silly. I actually missed pre-RoI approach to stats, when there was more than Agi and its Vit stepchild to think about if only thanks to caps.

    Now I am suddenly not so sure. Are we aiming for simplicity or for complexity this time?

    Also, Turbine being vague and pushing more seemingly random changes? Oh, yes, this is new
    Thats to bad because they will have to replace whatever it is I am loosing from agility. I will not grind for it and I will not buy it in the store so if their goal was to eliminate some peoples desire to pay a sub to PvP as freeps mission accomplished.

    Ive put a lot of time into my hunter to get him PvP ready, I enjoy the class as is and simply wont accept a nerf at this point. I know a lot will QQ, I will as well but im going to put my money where my mouth is if the nerf goes through without some compensation, then they loose the VIP sub fees. In the end thats about the only recourse we have. The real question is how many are prepared to excersise.


 

 
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