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  1. #26
    Oh good grief folks! If you want it all just handed to you wait a while lotro isn't far from that now so relax have some coffee or tea and enjoy what's left of the game.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    3,203
    Quote Originally Posted by ragesangel View Post
    Oh good grief folks! If you want it all just handed to you wait a while lotro isn't far from that now so relax have some coffee or tea and enjoy what's left of the game.
    People don't want it handed to them, they want to earn it. Say I want the Captain Gold Shield (which I do). The approach to get it isn't to do something hard, no it apparently is grind SH/WP T1 repeatedly. You can't work towards it, it is either there or it is not. The nature of the stats is irritating. If the drop rate is 1%, you need to do about 75 runs to have a 50% chance to get it. But there is absolutely *no* number of runs that will guarantee it.

    drop rate 1% 0.5%
    runs
    1 1% 1%
    5 5% 2%
    25 22% 12%
    50 39% 22%
    75 53% 31%
    100 63% 39%
    150 78% 53%
    200 87% 63%
    300 95% 78%
    400 98% 87%
    500 99% 92%


    I like the First Age for Seals thing -- for those who can't get it to drop in the (now T2) instance by chance, they ALSO have a significant but knowable seals grind. They can evaluate how much work it is and whether it is worth it to them. Grinding for a gold item, you can do 100 runs, have nothing, and know that another 100 runs might not get it for you...

  3. #28
    But how many is some instances? How many is enough? There is no transparency in the current drop rates across instances. We assume that x drops from y at the same rate that a drops from b, yet when we test it we find that can't possibly be the case. School and library teals are everywhere, yet how many of you have seen teal jewelry out of NCF/STH? Or any Fornost wing? Friend plays hunter/warden, been running these instances compulsively to help him get loot(since I'm a guardian tank for whom turbine decided u10 would include no loot beyond the shield which stubbornly refuses to drop despite MANY BfEs and multiple t2 bfe/smaug completions). After more than 100 NCF/STH we have seen no teal jewelry and no golds. After running Water wing to death and doing multiple full clears of fornost to get unlocks for multiple kin members, we have seen no useful loot.

    I'm not a typical player, I have multiple toons at cap, toons I play at a very high level and gear extensively, toons I play for obscene amounts of time each day. This low rate of desirable gear drops, teal and gold, combined with the utterly random and arbitrary nature of when/where things actually turn around, is maddening. A few players with nearly as much time as me have multiple horselord bracelets, multiple gold class items, etc. Players who log in once or twice a week post their golds and ask "when did they add this stuff?". Am I jealous? Yes, not going to lie to you. I'm not "owed" loot, but getting buggered by the rng repeatedly since u9 has left me a bit bitter. If I see one more scrub guardian with crafted eomer armour and purple jewelry, fresh from their first t1 BfE, post the gold erebor shield...I may just pull a nutty.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    27
    I honestly wish they would at least add a second way of aquiring these gold piece. Since they have been introduced i have run somwhere around 500 T2 instances and i have 0 golds to show for it, whereas i know people how have run far less and have 3-4 gold items.

    Now if the say added them to skirmish barters for something like 100000 marks, 10000 medallions and 1000 seals i wouldnt be so ****** of with the system in its current state as i have farmed enough instance at that price to be able to afford 2 golds.
    Im not saying remove the drop, just add something for those of us that are horrifically unlucky.

    Until something is changed with this system i have all but given up running instances apart from if friends/kinnies need help.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e0000000efdbc/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #30
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    Jun 2011
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    Local cluster
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    522
    Quote Originally Posted by Frathir3 View Post
    What? :P I am farming all sorts of instances now, to get marks first and foremost because I am realistic, but also to get gold items. I think you misunderstood what I meant. What I really wanted to say was, that people shouldnt &&&&& because they havent got any gold. (they should then just run some instances untill they get lucky).
    "some instances until"? Give me a break..

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    29
    I remember a time when "Gold Items" dropped on a chance of 100%. Ok around 24 people had to roll for it, an axe if i'm correct. Unfortunatly that axe didn't even had stats... What a &&&&? Maybe, but i felt really good as i got that axe.

    A bit later...
    An elf chick told me, once per week at least, why she inprisoned an ugly guy with a pretty long... sword. After we stole him the sword and rolled his immens body aside a champion found a cloak. He was the happiest champ i've seen so far.

    The same time a guardian was trying to trade for a bell with a twin pair. He tried every week. Every week. The refused to give it to him the next ~ 40 tries. At least, as he grew the age of 60, he was able to debate them to death und received his bell. Believe it or not, he wa a lucky dwarf at this moment.


    Today
    A hunter and his friends went to an old rotten city to swim with some shades and found a new jacket. His first words have been: "Looks ugly"


    Conclusion for me:
    Items are devalued and i'm waiting paitiently for the next reset. Hopefully the global mentality will get to the point of beeing happy of obtaining something special.

    We can get pretty good items now in nearly every instance available, let's be happy if we get one. Let's not grind em out until we hate the instances.
    I hear the silent voices
    i cannot hide...

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    People don't want it handed to them, they want to earn it. Say I want the Captain Gold Shield (which I do). The approach to get it isn't to do something hard, no it apparently is grind SH/WP T1 repeatedly. You can't work towards it, it is either there or it is not. The nature of the stats is irritating. If the drop rate is 1%, you need to do about 75 runs to have a 50% chance to get it. But there is absolutely *no* number of runs that will guarantee it.

    drop rate 1% 0.5%
    runs
    1 1% 1%
    5 5% 2%
    25 22% 12%
    50 39% 22%
    75 53% 31%
    100 63% 39%
    150 78% 53%
    200 87% 63%
    300 95% 78%
    400 98% 87%
    500 99% 92%


    I like the First Age for Seals thing -- for those who can't get it to drop in the (now T2) instance by chance, they ALSO have a significant but knowable seals grind. They can evaluate how much work it is and whether it is worth it to them. Grinding for a gold item, you can do 100 runs, have nothing, and know that another 100 runs might not get it for you...

    Drops for golden items and horse lords recipes % are 0.01%, xo add few 0's on those calculations.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/20224000000192099/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [b]We are Pata Negra, we never forgive, we never forget, we never regret.[/b]

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    177
    The items in this game is as good as it has ever been right now. U have purple gear that drops often.. U have teal that is a bit rare, and gold that is very rare! just like it should be!

    Diffrent loot table for every instance is also very good! Makes alot of content to do and there is always something for everyone in these instances.

    Now, the real problem is that every instance now is a faceroll for most people. U can pull whole instances and zerg everything with some AoE. then u loot and hope u get something.
    Drop chance is good now as all the instances are 2 easy and griding for them is the only way.

    How it should be tho:

    Tier 1 - Can only drop relics and Purple gear - A bad\decent pug can do this with some co-ordinations
    Tier 2 - Can drop purple + teal - A good pug or kin group can do this with some struggle
    Tier 2 challenge - Can drop all loot avalibale for the instance - A well made group of people can do this. Challenge is good

    Now if they made all instances like this, the drop rates should increase very much for tier 2 and tier 2 challenge. This way it is still fun, and when u finaly get the item u can think of yourself. "Well done".

    With current system u just think: I did the same instance 60 times..i finaly won the gold item..Weee...
    Commander Emaldiom [EN] Eldar - Challenger of Saruman - Lotro
    MrMidget - [EuW] League of Legends
    MrMidget2 - [EuW] League of Legends

  9. #34

    Gold is the New Teal

    The problem with the current gold level of jewelry and armour is that it is not rare enough to maintain the desirability of teal items, yet except with respect to the rings, there is no path to gold items other than luck.

    There are so many gold items in the game that I expect that you could fill at least half of the slots on your character panel with them if you collected them all. And it's not like it's only a small handful of players who have gotten a gold item (or several) in U9 or U10. Turbine has created a situation where purple is the new trash, teal is the new purple, and gold is the new teal. Because there are so many gold items to be found, and because they are dropping frequently enough that you, or someone in your kin, or at least someone in GLFF or someone you inspect in Snowbourne has a bunch of them, Turbine has made us feel that teal items are just placeholders and that we're not really well-geared until we're glowing with gold.

    Having created this gold rush, however, Turbine gives us no way to get the gold items except by luck, and luck seems to be distributed very unequally across the player base. At least, it manifests very unevenly in the sample sizes that we are able to perceive.

    The gulf between (1) raised expectations and (2) no reliable way, no matter how much you play and how good you are, to get gold items, is the fundamental problem IMHO. Either:

    (a) There should be fewer gold items in the game (maybe two per class), they should be random drops but extremely rare (much more rare than now), so they're not in your face all the time. No doubt, the most obsessive-compulsive players still will farm for them, but the rest of us who are just averagely obsessive-compulsive will be happy with teals. Or:
    (b) If gold items are going to be as diverse as they are now (multiple jewelry pieces and armour pieces per class, plus off-hand weapon/shield) and not extremely rare, then they should drop fairly often from T2 or be available from barter vendors in exchange for seals or rep items (like the Rohan rings).

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    737
    I expect the gold items were some designer's brilliant idea without knowing much about MMO's.

    I'm sure the design was to have one player find a gold item that would be very rare and be something super cool to show off. Like winning the lottery as someone else said.

    But obviously players with time on their hands and the desire to have the best gear possible are going to farm whatever they can as much as they can to get these gold items.

    Meanwhile, just like a slot machine... The item drops for some guy on his first run who doesn't even know how rare they are.

    So the effects are either:
    1. It increases the gear grind to an absurd level of time, doing monotonous tasks, for those who are willing to grind.
    Or
    2. It rewards people for being lucky instead of being good or dedicated... Meanwhile everyone in their kin is jealous of the item, but they have no realistic path to it...

    Also some of these gold items have pretty absurd stats on them. I was fortunate enough to have the pocket-scroll drop for my guardian and the non-critted version enabled me to change like half my build because it offered up so much in the way of stats.

    Anyway, just a bad idea in my opinion. I'd like to know if anyone is really happy with these. I'd rather earn my gear than get it through luck.
    105 (Captain, Champion, Guardian)

  11. #36
    If they keep going in this direction were gonna need magic find gear.
    Last edited by Armitas; Mar 25 2013 at 06:09 PM.
    .


  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    If they keep going in this direction were gonna need magic find gear.
    Oh god, I needed that laugh.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    2,979
    Quote Originally Posted by DuneBug View Post
    So the effects are either:
    1. It increases the gear grind to an absurd level of time, doing monotonous tasks, for those who are willing to grind.
    Or
    2. It rewards people for being lucky instead of being good or dedicated... Meanwhile everyone in their kin is jealous of the item, but they have no realistic path to it...
    Either? Try both. As far as I can tell, there's ZERO increase in drop chance for completing T2C instances. Getting a vendor item, a T5 relic, 3 seals, and MAYBE some pointless purple item over and over and over again is getting old pretty fast. People aren't going to farm these instances and get nothing in return until the next cluster is released in 2016.
    solien
    armor-plated since SoA alpha 3
    arkenstone: roxxi manor

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ragesangel View Post
    Oh good grief folks! If you want it all just handed to you wait a while lotro isn't far from that now so relax have some coffee or tea and enjoy what's left of the game.
    Been there done that - enjoyed all the end game content many times - not bothered about FLM T2 , T2 Armor for tanking warden is not worth grinding for I have enough seals to but 1st Ager + Armor + have 60000 Medallions , 200K Marks and nothing to spend them on.

    Drank the coffee , tea what ever ..... No I DON'T want it handed on a plate, I will always advocate harder group instances with better chance of reward, but knowing I could run the same boring / mindless group content 4/5 evenings a week until U12 (U11 is solo content) and not get a class item , is highly demotivating, I have already reduced my Lotro time to 2 evenings a week and probably will be 0 days a week very soon, most of the enjoyment I get now is on TeamSpeak with Kinnies and don't need to be logged into game for that... which is very sad as I am a Tolkien Fan and have enjoyed this game immensely for 3+ years
    .

    Getting a Gold Class Item "Soon™" - Currently running 999th ITA Instance

  15. #40
    I had a question I was wondering about.

    I'm looking for my gold captain shield, which comes from mirkwood. There is a cappy shield in warg pens. Would doing warg pens give me a better shot at it. My thinking was it might roll purple shield, teal shield, then gold shield, even though the gold and teal are not identical.
    .


  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2

    Thumbs down gold item drop chance is sux!

    I dont know why but this game getting worse day by day...
    I made 300runs to Bells of Dale T2 and we didnt get any gold items... (6 of us) and this means totaly wasting of my time!
    If you managing better and fair looting system lotro, please set cooldown this instances and give us "Gold Item" with %100 drop chance... Believe me this is better.
    I'll play this game end of this month if nottings change basicly i'll guit playing, as i said before its totaly waste of time with this sux drop chance.

  17. #42
    Considering that my warden can survive tanking any content and hasn't a single lucky gold item. I have no reason whatsoever to bother making more than a passing effort to get these lucky items. My hunter is fine without them as well. To me they are a waste of effort, same as the horse-lord's recipes.
    Welleg , Kelleg, and Gelleg - Crickhollow
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
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    321
    If getting gold items is the only reason you play an instance with 6 people you should indeed consider your motivation.
    A run is never totally wasted because you have fun with friends or pugs... you always get marks and meds and in 300 runs I'm sure you got a good number of other goodies like teals, crystals etc.

    I do agree however that having the gold items in the game is missing it's purpose. I'm sure it was intended as a nice surprise drop but since people want to get the best items for their chars peopel turn to farming. Farming leads to frustration which for 1 person starts at 50 runs and the next person it starts at 200 runs. What Turbine apparently is failing to see is that this system frustrates the majority of the players and only benefits the minority of the players.

    I'm sure Turbine doesn't want to have a frustrated player base so any solution would be more than welcome. Why not remove gold items from endlessly farmable instances and think of another way to acquire such items.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/2921e000000062171/signature.png]Schavuit[/charsig]

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixinix View Post
    If getting gold items is the only reason you play an instance with 6 people you should indeed consider your motivation.
    A run is never totally wasted because you have fun with friends or pugs... you always get marks and meds and in 300 runs I'm sure you got a good number of other goodies like teals, crystals etc.
    ...snip....
    Excatly this!

    You can beat any content atm without the golden stuff, but if you want looking cool for posing purposes it might impress someone - but not me.
    [COLOR=#ff0000][B] Polaris / Nazdar / Furia[/B]
    [/COLOR][COLOR=#00ff00]Gorgonite Captain R9/Jinzo Champion R4/Donato RK R8/Kalira Hunter R6/Tempico Minstrel R3/ Athalmir Warden R7[/COLOR] [COLOR=#ffa500] ... and [/COLOR][COLOR=#ffa500]6 Creeps r10 - r11[/COLOR]

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixinix View Post
    If getting gold items is the only reason you play an instance with 6 people you should indeed consider your motivation.
    A run is never totally wasted because you have fun with friends or pugs... you always get marks and meds and in 300 runs I'm sure you got a good number of other goodies like teals, crystals etc.

    I do agree however that having the gold items in the game is missing it's purpose. I'm sure it was intended as a nice surprise drop but since people want to get the best items for their chars peopel turn to farming. Farming leads to frustration which for 1 person starts at 50 runs and the next person it starts at 200 runs. What Turbine apparently is failing to see is that this system frustrates the majority of the players and only benefits the minority of the players.

    I'm sure Turbine doesn't want to have a frustrated player base so any solution would be more than welcome. Why not remove gold items from endlessly farmable instances and think of another way to acquire such items.
    First of all i dont need anything except gold items i already finished erabor t1's & t2's (i have great erabor set) and i have full upgraded 1st age weapons.
    But i'm a cappy and if i need more heals thats means i need gold items because of the stats.
    I played long time wow, i was holly priest at world's #1 guild called "Nihilum" maybe i must go back to my old game...
    They have better loot table and they are giving the drop chance with the numbers no one knows the drop chance in this game i've asked to GM and he said i dont know. I've checked the forum and there is no info about it, so why i must play this game? They cant give any info and they says just play this game if you are lucky you can get gold items. This is totaly sux!
    Last edited by ikaruz; Apr 09 2013 at 10:04 AM.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgonites View Post
    Excatly this!

    You can beat any content atm without the golden stuff, but if you want looking cool for posing purposes it might impress someone - but not me.
    Its not about "looking cool". One of the reasons I (and others) keep playing at 85+ is to improve and maximize our characters. This goes for pretty much any online game out there. Why do you think stuff like combat analyses are so popular? People want their toons to get stronger and better at their jobs, regardless if the content requires it.

    But If I want better heals on my mini, making it easier for my kin to finally beat the BfE T2 challenge (for example), I need class golds items, I already have everything else. If I want better dps on my champ, same story. There is no gear progression, nothing. There is no other way to improve my characters either, there is no skill or deed progressions left at 85+. You cant train up your skills or stats. We only have one choice in Lotro, get better gear. But the gear is suddenly locked behind a wall of randomness with a non existent droprate, unless you are favoured by the RNG.

    Its enough rare gold pieces to fill almost every gear slot now. Its sick. For most of us its impossible to get any of these items (including horse lord jewellery) unless we run the same instance 500-1000+ times and live in mommy's basement ignoring our real life obligations.

    It takes the fun out of the game at level cap. That's why the new loot system sucks.

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by clarabelle View Post
    But If I want better heals on my mini, making it easier for my kin to finally beat the BfE T2 challenge (for example), I need class golds items, I already have everything else. If I want better dps on my champ, same story. There is no gear progression, nothing. There is no other way to improve my characters either, there is no skill or deed progressions left at 85+. You cant train up your skills or stats. We only have one choice in Lotro, get better gear. But the gear is suddenly locked behind a wall of randomness with a non existent droprate, unless you are favoured by the RNG.

    It takes the fun out of the game at level cap. That's why the new loot system sucks.
    The problem is right in front of you, but you seem to have missed it. You're correct that in this game, after you level up to cap, there is no way to make your character "better" STATISTICALLY except through gear. You are what you wear. So yes, if you feel you need something to chase in order to be "better," the only things you have to chase are gear.

    However, unless the game constantly makes better gear available every month or two, inevitably you are going to hit the "gear cap" and be stuck there until the next major update/expansion. Suppose gold items were dropping often enough or available by barter so that you had them all by now. Wouldn't you be making the same complaint--there's no more gear to chase, you have no way to get better, all the fun has gone out of the game for you?

    As I said in another thread, the problem the devs have created is that they've made gold the new teal. There's enough gold around that it has devalued teal in everyone's mind. However, there's no way to get gold other than extreme luck; so almost all players' raised hopes and expectations are bound to be frustrated.

    In my heart I feel the "gold lust" as much as anyone when I see someone brag in GLFF or kinchat about a drop, but in my head I know that it's stupid and that with a full slate of teal gear, very good skill at playing my class, similarly skilled/equipped kinmates, and a good strategy, we'll beat BfE T2c. We're pretty close to being able to doing it already, we just need to put more time into it. No one is saying "It's hopeless until we get more gold items!"
    Vikky (115 LM) * Iaggo (107 Burg) * Samsgarde (105 Captain) * Samsgaard (85 Guard, retired) * and various lowbies

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Samsgaard View Post
    However, unless the game constantly makes better gear available every month or two, inevitably you are going to hit the "gear cap" and be stuck there until the next major update/expansion. Suppose gold items were dropping often enough or available by barter so that you had them all by now. Wouldn't you be making the same complaint--there's no more gear to chase, you have no way to get better, all the fun has gone out of the game for you?
    Or option #3: Gold items could only be obtained by beating T2 raids which have realistic drop rates. With locks, no one would be able to gear out his toon so quickly that he would run out of things to do. There would be a relationship between difficulty and reward. There would be a point to continuing to run difficult content. Also the gold items (or whatever the top loot) would be just this side of necessary for completing T2C so that there would be a point to getting them.

    Even if the current content were challenging and interesting, (the instances are faceroll and recycled), no one wants to run the same thing 600 times without any reward. At some point no one wants to run the same thing that many times even if they're guaranteed the reward. I mean, "Hotel California" was an awesome song, the first 104,738 times I heard it on Classic Rock radio. Right now Turbine is forcing us to listen to Milli Vanelli on an endless tape loop.

    I expect that in the last month or so before the next expansion, Turbine plans to up the drop rate to the opposite and equally ludicrous extreme. Everyone will be fully geared out with gold items. This won't change things for me a bit. The gear will still be pointless, (and soon to be completely obsolete), and there were still be no sense of accomplishment.

    There is no point to playing a game where the loot chances are virtually impossible and the loot isn't needed anyway. Which is to say, if this is the future of the game, I think I am done giving any more money to Turbine.
    Last edited by NukeTheLag; Apr 09 2013 at 06:45 PM.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,763
    If their goal with gold items is to get people to do ALL content, they're going to get a rude awakening this fall when nobody feels like doing Fornost 200 more times for their L95 gold class items.

    I've come to grips with the fact that unlike previous content, I will never be able to maximize a character at L85 because everything is luck-based and unaffected by skill. But I think their new loot distribution method is stupid, in that the gains don't outweigh the costs. Blatant grind that makes a tiny amount of people happy, and at the same time upsets people who were previously able to maximize their character using at least a measure of skill. The short-term gain of getting the biggest addicts to run something 200 times will not be repeated nearly as much this fall when they give us the same recycled content at L90 or 95.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    530
    i have run so much content that i have already bartered for 20 first age symbols at the t1 price (488) and traded for three of the new erebor armor sets. in that time i still have not gotten any of the gold items that i wanted and have pretty much given up hope of ever obtaining them.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000d123b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    The [url="http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com"]Noldor[/url] of Arkenstone

 

 
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