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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmez View Post
    aww ... I was all set to agree wit this post, but then I read it lol. Dots n damage do not pull u outta the burrow, a lucky stun at the time of burrow does.

    but really? thats ballys to complain about something that happens 1/7 times prolly when the other 6 times you get a 14-16k full heal (every spider n their mother has that trait now)

    that heal needs to be nerfed before i'd consider fixing the 15% chance you get stunned outta it.
    Amen. I want a full heal out of my hobbit flop. It has an hour cd so I think it's fair.
    Jeffaman-Guarding Hobbit Jeffro-Burgling Hobbit Tinulaurien-Elf Lore Master Cephus-Champion of Men Lilnooblet-Hunting Hobbit Jeffrandir-Snooty Elf Rune-keeper- All of Brandywine
    Long live the halflings! Praise them with great praise!
    RIP Nidor - Brandywine's bravest warrior


  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    2,055
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    - skill that gives them an extra 20% physical and tactical mitigation ( that puts a decently ranked spider at more mitigation then a guardian with a shield traited to tank.
    Actually it doesn't. If i trait full mits (3 tact,3 phy) and use an armor pot my r11 has 59.6(its capped at 60%) or so BASE mit against tact or phy damage(the same as a hunter,burg,warden can get) before born of shadows buff. so when it tiers up fully it can hit just under 80% the same as guards,champs,captains doing so pretty much means you give up a great deal of health or damage and you pretty much give up the use of the reflect that so many freeps QQ about.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    - power drain, huge in today's pvp
    Not that huge when you factor in mits it ticks for around 120/3 secs on a light armor class with some heavy armor classes taking less then 50/3 secs so its not THAT much especially when you factor in all the skills freeps have to restore power (like group wide lm share the fun) and the fact that lm power drain is FAR larger. there's also a major change coming to icpr so it might be even smaller.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    -can't break their legs
    burgs also have a skill to make them not break legs and there's also bandages so its available to freeps 2

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    - extra 10% run speed in and out of combat
    Coffee= 10% run speed for ALL freeps not just 1 class

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    - range class, making it easy and dangerous to kite
    Range class with 1/2 the dps of freep ranged class all being based on dots that are easily removable

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    -5k heal available every 45 seconds when things die
    Things have to die to use it and the spider has to actually have the trait and have it equiped (not LL spiders are 9+ or pay to win)

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    -100% reflect damage available every minute for up to 15 seconds
    The spider still takes all that damage in addition to taking that damage to make it the most effective they need to drop catch prey,(won't reflect if not being hit) and born of shadows (more mits= less damage reflected) give up a significant amount of damage from the loss of venom and can't get bubbled or shield walled since they HAVE to take damage to reflect damage so its a very situational skill not near as op as freeps say it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    - in combat burrow that heals them full morale available every 5 minutes
    Once again they need to have bought the trait to have the heal AND have burrow actually work and it doesn't always work in heavy lag.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    - they have more cc available to them than any other class
    Could you even say that with a straight face even hunter have more cc available to them then a spider.

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    Add the fact they have a pet that gives them more dps and heal abilities and they can slow an entire raid, mix all that with a Mordi brand and it's a joke
    Lm's/cpts also have pets that can boost dps or heal them both have pretty good healing abilities champs have good dps pretty good healing, multiple self bubbles and can slow almost an entire raid(20 target aoe slow) only u can't run around the champ slow and avoid it

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    But hey I'll be nice and stay on topic for you here....hit a stun pot before burrowing if it bothers you that much that it gets interrupted maybe 3/15 times
    [/QUOTE]

    Actually it gets interrupted more like 10/15 times for me and its NEVER from being cc'd( like i said earlier its a lag thing and i only use trapdoor when im being zerged and there's ALWAYS lag on brandywine when a zerg is around). that would also mean having to save your stun pot just in case you need to burrow so when that cc hits you (and it will) you will probably be dead before you shake off the stun.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    Actually it doesn't. If i trait full mits (3 tact,3 phy) and use an armor pot my r11 has 59.6(its capped at 60%) or so BASE mit against tact or phy damage(the same as a hunter,burg,warden can get) before born of shadows buff. so when it tiers up fully it can hit just under 80% the same as guards,champs,captains doing so pretty much means you give up a great deal of health or damage and you pretty much give up the use of the reflect that so many freeps QQ about.


    Mitigation Caps (from wiki)


    • Light Armour rating: max. 40%
    • Medium Armour rating: max. 50%
    • Heavy Armour rating: max. 70%

    Geez, my shield of the dunedain is jealous of your mits.
    Last edited by Armitas; Jan 28 2013 at 12:53 PM.
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  4. #29
    Has a long reply the forums ate... short and sweet:

    Armitas beat me on the mit caps

    Spiders have fewer compromises in terms of traiting to get their full compliment of CC compared to freep classes.

    Spider WtE is just as effective as the champ slow, the only difference is idiotic freeps can also get caught after the initial drop, or if you put it in a great location. Complain about the Warden AoE slow, that is the OP one.

    The problems you complain about with TDS are related to server lag, which is a problem every class has to deal with in different ways. NS still doesn't fire quite often in laggy situations for example.

    passive falling immunity > bandages, safe fall, and brands combined (lets not start on brands here too though)
    same goes for run-speed.

    Spider power drains are extremely potent against non-will classes in a small group/solo settings. to the point where other than maybe champs, no class can really overcome it.

    Balance is about what is available to people, not what some choose to have or not have. All creep skills and trait are available to every creep, saying that not all of them have them is an invalid argument in the same way a freep arguing their dps is too weak when all their gear is questing quality. Yes depending on how you look at it one is more easily obtained, but it is available for every
    Last edited by spelunker; Jan 28 2013 at 01:45 PM.
    [center][img]http://i58.tinypic.com/2wrm5ja_th.jpg[/img][/center]
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    Oh, you're serious...
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    6,073
    Quote Originally Posted by RIG0R View Post
    This broken skill needs to be addressed.

    The description states "You can burrow into the ground becoming invunerable....."It's purpose is useless if any bleed or damage over time can pull you out of the burrow.
    Quick question: If they sold a skill in the store say R13 "super duper burrow skill" that eliminated bleeds or any DOT would you buy it?

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Wardens absolutely take time to learn, but seriously? I run 5 red, 1 yellow, 1 blue 95% of the time, and always reckless with the occasional assailment. Barring 4 red OPs I choose whether or not I want to win a fight vs anything but the top tier of weavers, and Defilers with flies, no cooldowns necessary. I'm quite competent on my Warden, but I know a few who are certainly better than me on my server. Either you're holding back on gambits used (I certainly do all the time) or there is very significant reason to not 'trust you'.
    I can win any fight if I want, even Spiders. If I would use heals. But Im only using Conviction, when Im in trouble. I win against all Wargs/BAs/WLs but there arent many of those anymore. Lots of reavers.. Also Im talking about r10+ only creeps since theyre the only ones willing to spar me. You can trust me, lol. Beated r15 Reaver on our server today. Not saying Im skilled or good or the best, just saying Im good enough to make a judgement.
    Feailuve - Aeviternus - Vesanus
    Brandywine

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    Actually it doesn't. If i trait full mits (3 tact,3 phy) and use an armor pot my r11 has 59.6(its capped at 60%)
    Not really though i still believe spiders are basically dumbed down to CC in raids(and i'm fine with that since i love some good CC)
    If i go into a raid, the WL uses the point-defense banner, his morale/armor stance, and i pop a armor pot i get in-combat 65.5% tactical mitigation so it's not capped at 60%

    Ex
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000241100/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by MTminas View Post
    Not really though i still believe spiders are basically dumbed down to CC in raids(and i'm fine with that since i love some good CC)
    If i go into a raid, the WL uses the point-defense banner, his morale/armor stance, and i pop a armor pot i get in-combat 65.5% tactical mitigation so it's not capped at 60%

    Ex
    How deep could it go? If you combined your set up with born of shadow. Throw in a "tome of defense" (-10% dmg source) and some destiny perks. How far could you take it?

    ( I know tomes of defense add separately. Just throwing it in there to see how low you can get inc dmg)
    Last edited by Armitas; Jan 28 2013 at 05:29 PM.
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  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Armitas View Post
    How deep could it go? If you combined your set up with born of shadow. Throw in a "tome of defense" (-10% dmg source) and some destiny perks. How far could you take it?
    Well the tome of defense doesn't add to mitigations
    And note, born to shadow is of course included there
    And i don't know how deep it runs, I'd have to get some perks and if i wanted to go crazy i could change all my corruptions to tactical mitigations instead of 4H2M
    No spider would go there though but i'd be nice to see how far you could take it....
    Be glad spiders don't have real burst damage......

    Ex
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000241100/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaapad View Post
    Hmm. There's nothing wrong with the burrow skill as far as I am concerned. Burrow smartly, try NOT to burrow when you see an LM about to throw a mez at you or LOTRD or something like that, and chances are you'll be fine. As for DoTs... eh, once again, burrow smartly. Not when you're going to die within 3-4 ticks but a little bit before that in order to compensate. I don't get popped out of my TDS due to bleeds themselves - the only situation in which I have really noticed it is when a skill such as blinding flash or light of the rising dawn are cast on me literally milliseconds before I click burrow. A lot of that just comes down to luck, or very good judgement by the other player.

    Well played weavers (what few of those remain) should give any freep class a run for its money and generally win most fights with melee classes, even WITHOUT webbing/catch prey. Yes, even LMs minstrels and wardens are beatable without blowing cooldowns (assuming they do not either) speaking from experience. Not going to go into a lecture about how one should play their class here, however...
    I'll be honest, i've had times where "pretending" i was going to die anyhows has actually saved me.
    When i stop running and jump up and down like an idiot they think my burrow is on cooldown.....the last second i burrow and noone even thought of the interrupts

    I'm wondering what cooldowns are you talking about?
    My expirience with LM's has been water-lore-spam to victory, and i don't have too much issues with wardens i know when to melee/mouse turn and when to kite.

    Ex
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000241100/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaapad View Post
    The specific cooldowns I am referring to are trapdoor sanctuary and toxic carapace. Water-lore is a nice skill but even then it is not unbeatable, I think. It does depend on the LM you are fighting, of course. It has a 10 second cooldown however which ties nicely with the 10second cooldown on shadow's bite, assuming you have it. It is quite possible to simply use it the instant you see them raiding their hands to cast water lore, provided you are smart and within melee range, and you will prevent them from healing for a few vital seconds. Generally most LMs will go into a sort of 'panic mode' when they find their water lore feared/interrupted and will not be sure what to do - you can use that opportunity to you advantage and re-stack DoTs, get in close for some melee damage, whatever you feel you need to do. You cannot simply approach an LM with button mashing and expect to be victorious unless they are really somewhat clueless - save fears specifically for water lore OR power drains. All you have to do is fear a power drain once and they will not be able to re-use it for a minute. Simple, really. Movement is also key here - a ranged fight will generally be quite fruitless, you have to balance it with getting in close and moving trickily around them to throw off their inducted skills, particularly burning embers, as much as possible. With clever movement this is quite possible. If they mez you to cast water-lore well that's time they will not be able to spend keeping you down, so use that to your advantage as well. Having an LM as my main personally helps me a lot in combatting them 1v1, and there are only a select few on E who I know I would have difficult fights with. Each to their own though, it does depend greatly on your builld, playstyle, ability to adapt to the fight you're in, ability to judge WHEN you should actually use a particular skill, so on and so forth.


    2cents
    Oh i agree with all this, i tend to melee the ranged and kite the melee for starters, so as for an LM I'll always be in it's face however what tends to happen is i'm CC'ed, they step a bit back and have tar between me and them, by the time i'm in their face again the hot is already ticking.
    Besides this the lag really messes me up, besides having to be in their face the delay on the skill to respond, added some +X% attack duration makes it even worse.
    It's hard to take down a LM that has some experience using that skill, and i don't even bother anymore with certain lore-masters then tend to run into a fight with 3 stacks of the heal already running....

    Ex
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000241100/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

 

 
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