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  1. #1

    Trapdoor Sanctuary

    This broken skill needs to be addressed.

    The description states "You can burrow into the ground becoming invunerable....."It's purpose is useless if any bleed or damage over time can pull you out of the burrow.
    Keep your joints oiled freeps - for if you dont: Rigormortis has incapacitated you!!

  2. #2
    Lol... Are you asking for a DoT immunity? Just put your webs on the ground and pop your fresh Mordiriths Brand, you'll be ok! Spiders are good enough as they are. Also, a "bleed"... A bleed cant be stopped by burrowing.. Obviously ^^
    Feailuve - Akabath
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Lol... Are you asking for a DoT immunity? Just put your webs on the ground and pop your fresh Mordiriths Brand, you'll be ok! Spiders are good enough as they are. Also, a "bleed"... A bleed cant be stopped by burrowing.. Obviously ^^
    Re-read the original post - and if you want to troll a topic intended to highlight a problem to the devs, then start a new one and mark it TT-topic thread
    Keep your joints oiled freeps - for if you dont: Rigormortis has incapacitated you!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIG0R View Post
    This broken skill needs to be addressed.

    The description states "You can burrow into the ground becoming invunerable....."It's purpose is useless if any bleed or damage over time can pull you out of the burrow.
    Bleeds and damage do not pull you out of the burrow, while CC and interrupts may.
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  5. #5
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    aww ... I was all set to agree wit this post, but then I read it lol. Dots n damage do not pull u outta the burrow, a lucky stun at the time of burrow does.

    but really? thats ballys to complain about something that happens 1/7 times prolly when the other 6 times you get a 14-16k full heal (every spider n their mother has that trait now)

    that heal needs to be nerfed before i'd consider fixing the 15% chance you get stunned outta it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000034d99/01007/signature.png]Jmez[/charsig]
    Jmez Warbringer The Warlord

  6. #6
    while spiders are in a pretty good spot right now. yea, trapdoor shouldnt be able to be interrupted
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RIG0R View Post
    This broken skill needs to be addressed.

    The description states "You can burrow into the ground becoming invunerable....."It's purpose is useless if any bleed or damage over time can pull you out of the burrow.
    TDS is functionally the same as hobbit flop and minstrel feign death, both of which suffer the same vulnerabilities: a perfectly (luckily) timed stun/interrupt will break the induction during the initial animation. No bleed or damage over time can pull you out of it, and once you are down the only freep skill I'm aware of that can pull you out is a warden's desolation skill which has an effect that has a chance to fear the target (25% untraited, 50% traited and VERY rarely) every 4 seconds, since this fear will break the 'channeling' of TDS. Creepside has a basic equivalent in raking claws from a flayer warg that can break hobbit-flop/mini feign-death (unless this skill has changed with U9s interrupt revisions).

    WaI, though perhaps changing the wording to un-attackable instead of invulnerable would be more clear.
    Last edited by spelunker; Jan 23 2013 at 08:18 PM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RIG0R View Post
    Re-read the original post - and if you want to troll a topic intended to highlight a problem to the devs, then start a new one and mark it TT-topic thread
    Angry guy... I thought you were smart enough to understand no DoT can get you out of Burrow, so I thought you meant getting killed by DoTs while in Burrow. Before you make a thread purely for QQing about something that is not even there, think about it first.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Angry guy... I thought you were smart enough to understand no DoT can get you out of Burrow, so I thought you meant getting killed by DoTs while in Burrow. Before you make a thread purely for QQing about something that is not even there, think about it first.
    All Dat logic........ It Huuuuuuuuuuurts us, precious!
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Creepside has a basic equivalent in raking claws from a flayer warg that can break hobbit-flop/mini feign-death (unless this skill has changed with U9s interrupt revisions).
    It did. It now has a 5% (25% if another skill is used, same as all other brute buffs) chance to apply +50% induction time... woot...

    One thing I will point out (not agreeing or disagreeing about whether TDS needs to be fixed) is that freeps have many more CC and interrupt skills so comparing flop and TDS isn't quite fair.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Samus1111111 View Post
    It did. It now has a 5% (25% if another skill is used, same as all other brute buffs) chance to apply +50% induction time... woot...

    One thing I will point out (not agreeing or disagreeing about whether TDS needs to be fixed) is that freeps have many more CC and interrupt skills so comparing flop and TDS isn't quite fair.
    but barring pure luck, the only thing that can ever be timed to stop TDS or Flop is an instant cast interrupt (and this is extremely difficult as well), and I wouldn't consider freepside to have a huge advantage in interrupts (some admittedly, but not a huge one).

    Since I've never used a flop in the moors, (don't play mini, didn't use it on my hobbit) does the spider delayed stun dot break a flop? are there any other creepside skills that can break a hobbit flop once they're in it?

    Are there any other freepside skills besides desolation that can break a weaver from TDS once they've gotten in it?

    I certainly wouldn't be opposed to making a weaver burrow fear immune if creepside had no way to break a mini flop once they're in it.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    but barring pure luck, the only thing that can ever be timed to stop TDS or Flop is an instant cast interrupt (and this is extremely difficult as well), and I wouldn't consider freepside to have a huge advantage in interrupts (some admittedly, but not a huge one).

    Since I've never used a flop in the moors, (don't play mini, didn't use it on my hobbit) does the spider delayed stun dot break a flop? are there any other creepside skills that can break a hobbit flop once they're in it?

    Are there any other freepside skills besides desolation that can break a weaver from TDS once they've gotten in it?

    I certainly wouldn't be opposed to making a weaver burrow fear immune if creepside had no way to break a mini flop once they're in it.
    I'd say its fairtly easy to interrupt a spiders TDS. I'd say im interrupted on it probably 25-35% of the time, but that really doesnt bother me, thats part of the game, you gotta pop a stun pot then burrow to be safe.

    The mini/hobbit flop can be interrupted by latent poison but it barely ever is from my experience. Even after applied (getting through resists and b/p/e, it then also has to go through the same checks when the mini is flopped. So many times I see it get resisted by a flopped mini. Also just part of the game.

    I think what the op REALLY is referring to is his OOC burrow which bleeds do make you pop out of. It's rather annoying.

  13. #13
    I never had a bleed pop me out of "trapdoor sanctuary" unless your talking about "lie in wait"
    The skill is interuptable, this happens if a class does an interrupt during the burrow, at first it was a rare thing, but now that the word got out whenever you stand still for a second while being focused everyone pops interrupt skills and it has a tendency to make the skill just fail

    There is a big diffrence from "enhancing/boosting" a class which is good where it is, to fixing a skill.
    This reminds me when a champions suden deffence could be interrupted with dazes/stuns/fears it got fixed like it should

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  14. #14
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    I can't in good conscience allow a spider to complain about something that is working exactly as it should (can be interrupted just like hobbit silence/feign death), especially when our class is in such a great place right now.

    So... No.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmez View Post
    aww ... I was all set to agree wit this post, but then I read it lol. Dots n damage do not pull u outta the burrow, a lucky stun at the time of burrow does.

    but really? thats ballys to complain about something that happens 1/7 times prolly when the other 6 times you get a 14-16k full heal (every spider n their mother has that trait now)

    that heal needs to be nerfed before i'd consider fixing the 15% chance you get stunned outta it.
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    but barring pure luck, the only thing that can ever be timed to stop TDS or Flop is an instant cast interrupt (and this is extremely difficult as well), and I wouldn't consider freepside to have a huge advantage in interrupts (some admittedly, but not a huge one).

    Since I've never used a flop in the moors, (don't play mini, didn't use it on my hobbit) does the spider delayed stun dot break a flop? are there any other creepside skills that can break a hobbit flop once they're in it?

    Are there any other freepside skills besides desolation that can break a weaver from TDS once they've gotten in it?

    I certainly wouldn't be opposed to making a weaver burrow fear immune if creepside had no way to break a mini flop once they're in it.
    Damage attacks do actually break quite often not just cc.I would say at least 75% of the time i use the burrow it lasts under 5 secs though i think it has more to so with the lag (it only happens with im being zerged down by a large group and the blue volcano it on the screen)

    desolation and potentially any ranged skill ( usually less then 1 sec after burrow) along with any skill in heavy lag all have the potential to break burrow. While a latent will break a flop IF it procs and i think raking claw from wargs will also break a flop and i have heard rumors that gut punch can even be used to stop a flop after it happens but the person who told me about it said he only did it once and wasn't able to repeat it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sezneg View Post
    I can't in good conscience allow a spider to complain about something that is working exactly as it should (can be interrupted just like hobbit silence/feign death), especially when our class is in such a great place right now.

    So... No.
    it doesn't work EXACTLY as it should all the time when there's heavy lag (and some servers lag is ALLOT worse then others ) it rarely works and i think its lag more than the actual skill thats broken thats why while some people seem to feel it works fine others seem to have it fail constantly.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    While a latent will break a flop IF it procs and i think raking claw from wargs will also break a flop and i have heard rumors that gut punch can even be used to stop a flop after it happens but the person who told me about it said he only did it once and wasn't able to repeat it.
    The old Brute Bonus from Raking Claws? Yeah, that was kewl... if you could even get it to proc :/
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    Damage attacks do actually break quite often not just cc.I would say at least 75% of the time i use the burrow it lasts under 5 secs though i think it has more to so with the lag (it only happens with im being zerged down by a large group and the blue volcano it on the screen)

    desolation and potentially any ranged skill ( usually less then 1 sec after burrow) along with any skill in heavy lag all have the potential to break burrow. While a latent will break a flop IF it procs and i think raking claw from wargs will also break a flop and i have heard rumors that gut punch can even be used to stop a flop after it happens but the person who told me about it said he only did it once and wasn't able to repeat it.



    it doesn't work EXACTLY as it should all the time when there's heavy lag (and some servers lag is ALLOT worse then others ) it rarely works and i think its lag more than the actual skill thats broken thats why while some people seem to feel it works fine others seem to have it fail constantly.
    ^ This pretty much sums it up.

    Any induction started before burrow will pop you out (LM's Ents, unless you hit a stun pot, Hunter's HS).
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  18. #18
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    It's very easy to guess when spider will use trapdoor -> hit blinding flash around 4-5k morale (if few ppl are attacking the spider) and most of time the spider will burrow while the projectile is traveling, interrupting the trapdoor. Never seen pure damage interrupt it.
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  19. #19
    Damn, yet another thread made by someone who would rather QQ then l2p

    Funniest thing is its from a spider, if any class needs to be smacked with the nerf bat it's spiders along with wardens.
    My opinion on a class being overpowered is when a noob can pick up the class and beat a decently played or good player while rolling their face on the keyboard.

    Stop and think about what a spider has in their arsenal.
    - skill that gives them an extra 20% physical and tactical mitigation ( that puts a decently ranked spider at more mitigation then a guardian with a shield traited to tank.

    - power drain, huge in today's pvp

    -can't break their legs

    - extra 10% run speed in and out of combat

    - range class, making it easy and dangerous to kite

    -5k heal available every 45 seconds when things die

    -100% reflect damage available every minute for up to 15 seconds

    - in combat burrow that heals them full morale available every 5 minutes

    - they have more cc available to them than any other class



    Add the fact they have a pet that gives them more dps and heal abilities and they can slow an entire raid, mix all that with a Mordi brand and it's a joke


    I don't have a warden but I've seen pretty stupid things that shouLdnt be happening in a pvp zone by any class

    Both These classes take no actuall skill to be played , any derp can mash buttons and win



    But hey I'll be nice and stay on topic for you here....hit a stun pot before burrowing if it bothers you that much that it gets interrupted maybe 3/15 times
    Last edited by sebo2yoface; Jan 25 2013 at 09:42 PM.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Samus1111111 View Post

    One thing I will point out (not agreeing or disagreeing about whether TDS needs to be fixed) is that freeps have many more CC and interrupt skills so comparing flop and TDS isn't quite fair.
    They really don't.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    Damn, yet another thread made by someone who would rather QQ then l2p


    I don't have a warden but I've seen pretty stupid things that shouLdnt be happening in a pvp zone by any class

    Both These classes take no actuall skill to be played , any derp can mash buttons and win

    Strange that warden is the least played class in this game, eh? Roll one and look at the class trainer and then think how long will it take you to memorize all those "button mash to win" gambits.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    Funniest thing is its from a spider, if any class needs to be smacked with the nerf bat it's spiders along with wardens.
    My opinion on a class being overpowered is when a noob can pick up the class and beat a decently played or good player while rolling their face on the keyboard.

    Stop and think about what a spider has in their arsenal.
    - skill that gives them an extra 20% physical and tactical mitigation ( that puts a decently ranked spider at more mitigation then a guardian with a shield traited to tank.

    - power drain, huge in today's pvp

    -can't break their legs

    - extra 10% run speed in and out of combat

    - range class, making it easy and dangerous to kite

    -5k heal available every 45 seconds when things die

    -100% reflect damage available every minute for up to 15 seconds

    - in combat burrow that heals them full morale available every 5 minutes

    - they have more cc available to them than any other class
    1- My R3 Mini has been able to smack down most R7 and under spiders with R5 audacity, while my R0 reaver was able to smack down a R9 mini, you faceroll a spider against a good player and you will be smacked down badly

    LM's have a way more powerfull power drain then what spiders have, yet i see noone whining.

    The extra 10% speed is something ALL FREEPS have if they drink coffee

    Indeed, when things die, in a 1v1 either they or you die, in RvR the spider is knocked down to CC due to dot's being all removable

    The reflect is 1M 30S cooldown with a 5s duration, it takes full venom to get the 15s duration, which in "panic" situacions you don't always have.

    The in-combat burrow is interuptable, and it has been interupted many times

    LM's and burgs have way more CC available, alongside the nasty debuffs
    There is a big diffrence between a class being fine where it is, and it being OP.

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  23. #23
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    ^
    Well said.

    The +mitigation buff is at a base amount of ZERO. One must be hit in order for the mitigation buff to take effect. 10 hits brings it to the +20% modifier, and without heals to back you up, the spider's health is already draining by that point.

    Also, the full heal TDS is only available to those with the trait. With the scarcity of R14+ spiders, this is a P2W problem rather than a gameplay issue.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    along with wardens.

    I don't have a warden but I've seen pretty stupid things that shouLdnt be happening in a pvp zone by any class

    Both These classes take no actuall skill to be played , any derp can mash buttons and win
    I suggest you try, just try, to understand where you're talking about, before saying such things. Wardens definately take some time to learn. Wardens need to be nerfed? So that we cant handle a single solo creep? Great idea. Most of my 1v1's end up in a draw: we both die. And its not my lack of skill, trust me. I see the Moors crowded with LMs, mincers and champs, though, and they walk out of 1v1's like nothing ever happened. Maybe those classes need a nerf, before nerfing Wardens.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I suggest you try, just try, to understand where you're talking about, before saying such things. Wardens definately take some time to learn. Wardens need to be nerfed? So that we cant handle a single solo creep? Great idea. Most of my 1v1's end up in a draw: we both die. And its not my lack of skill, trust me. I see the Moors crowded with LMs, mincers and champs, though, and they walk out of 1v1's like nothing ever happened. Maybe those classes need a nerf, before nerfing Wardens.
    Wardens absolutely take time to learn, but seriously? I run 5 red, 1 yellow, 1 blue 95% of the time, and always reckless with the occasional assailment. Barring 4 red OPs I choose whether or not I want to win a fight vs anything but the top tier of weavers, and Defilers with flies, no cooldowns necessary. I'm quite competent on my Warden, but I know a few who are certainly better than me on my server. Either you're holding back on gambits used (I certainly do all the time) or there is very significant reason to not 'trust you'.

    I'd argue that in a 1v1 scenario LMs are the strongest freep class, and Warden's aren't quite as ridiculously OP since the RoR creep buffs, but they are certainly capable of downright stupid things and are still very much OP.
    Last edited by spelunker; Jan 27 2013 at 05:43 PM.
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