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  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Admener View Post
    IMO I think that Helm's Deep should be entirely it's own zone. First off the place itself, through the books and lore, is MASSIVE. Why not make it it's own zone? The map could look similar in design to that of Moria with many sections and have the walls on the left hand side, and as you progress, you travel through the keep and fight your way to King Theoden's side. This all comes with plenty of side quests (pick up ammo, honor the dead, etc) as well as Epic and zone story lines. Once you've helped Theoden you begin to ride back out (a different leveling route that have higher levels and such).

    Then the instance cluster that will come out a few weeks following the release of Western Rohan (open landscaping quest hub/stories/epic), the instance coincide with Helm's Deep and allow us to fight bosses within the walls of Helm's Deep. These are instances and are designed for either 3, 6, or 12 depending on the story behind the instance and how it coincides with portions of the book. And I think we've earned the right to fight alongside Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn. Maybe even have a series of quests to help the Elves that come in to help. Who knows, but I feel like we've certainly caught up to the Fellowship, and would benefit from letting us play with the characters at this point in the story.

    Then comes the siege warfare. This will allow Kins to start building Kin fortresses/castles. We will also see tribes/clans within the creep side. I would like to see some sort of corruption mechanic be introduced where the freeps can almost flip sides and become evil minions or something. This whole portion of the book is where people began splitting into their various factions (so to speak) where the the free people fought against the clans and wilderlings or whatever. Idk how these would be implemented but it would be cool to do Kin Sieging and stuff. (Similar to that of GW1 which was considerably better than GW2's guild stuff).

    I'm really just spitballin' here so don't hate, just a few thing I thought would be really cool!

    I'm sorry, aid the what that come to help? Silly me, for a second there I thought you said elves, but that was a ridiculous thing to imagine, and my reaction would have been:
    "Are you crazy fool?! Read the dam books! There is ONE elf only at Helms Deep, and that's Legolas!!! Fufufufufug!!!!!" o_0
    So I'm very glad I imagined that sentence....
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  2. #152
    Musta wrote that before my morning coffee, meant rohirrim xD
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admener View Post
    IMO I think that Helm's Deep should be entirely it's own zone. First off the place itself, through the books and lore, is MASSIVE. Why not make it it's own zone?
    It's nowhere near the size of Moria. That doesn't mean it can't have it's own zone, just that it's nowhere near the size of Moria.

    Then comes the siege warfare. This will allow Kins to start building Kin fortresses/castles.
    No hate. This is just a bad idea.

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Legiorlos View Post
    Helms Deep is one of the major events in Middle Earth history and the way Turbine implements it will be viewed as setting the stage for the other major battles yet to come.
    Honestly, what I feel will "make or break" the success of LOTRO from this point is a few things.
    1) How good the forthcoming housing revamp is.
    2) If/when they upgrade the game's engine, animations and player models.
    3) Cut down on the sheer mass amount of invisible walls, etc that litter the game.

    One of LOTRO's key selling points is the environment and as that starts to fall behind, so will the interest in the game.
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  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by maxjenius View Post
    It's nowhere near the size of Moria. That doesn't mean it can't have it's own zone, just that it's nowhere near the size of Moria.
    If you notice, in my post, that there is no mention of Helm's Deep being comparable in size to Moria, purely design. I was speaking on the map layout, not the size of the zone itself.

    And the note on kinship housing is that I just find Kins to be so static and them having no influence over the whole of Middle Earth. I feel like Kin Skirmishing and Kin progression would be a cool idea and that maybe kin houses can be reinforced and they can be fought around or something. Like I said in my post this is all just spitballing and I get why it would be a bad idea but one can always hope.
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  6. #156
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    We're definitely going to Helm's Deep with our own characters. I'm positive about this. Read:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q21 Alyselle - Is there any multi boss raid (like Orthanc) planned in the near future? #LOTRO
    A21 JWB - Currently, the instance team is working on prototyping the Helm's Deep experience. #LOTRO
    This is from the most recent dev chat transcript. Yes, we're getting Helm's Deep instances, although it is not said if they take place during the actual Siege of Helm's Deep in which Aragorn & Friends fought; although I can't think of any other setting - in the books there is no mention (iirc) of any battles in the days before and after the siege. So I guess we're going to help defend the Hornburg & the Deeping Wall against Saruman's legions of Uruk-hai....and get loot for it. The quote says it's the instance team that's working on Helm's Deep, and this is jwbarry talking, who is the lead raid designer iirc. The question was about upcoming multiple boss raids, the answer was "Helm's Deep experience". It all adds up to Helm's Deep (or parts of it) will be the new raid instance for Western Rohan. While there will surely be more to see of Helm's Deep outside of this raid (The open-world version of it will probably set after the siege) I do not know if there will be session play involved. The epic story will go to there, I guess. But if you are a raider, your character will, too. Even if it says somewhere, we weren't there...we will be.
    Last edited by Deorwyn; Mar 03 2013 at 10:07 PM.
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  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    It sounds like a terrrible idea to me. While it might please the avid PvMPers, it would seriously tick off the rather larger number of people that *don't* do PvMP.

    --W. H. Heydt

    Old Used Programmer
    Good point

    Now back to the matter back at hand. I wouldnt like to see Helm's Deep as a session play mainly because I wouldnt like to miss out on this experience on my character. Why would I see the this amazing battle through Aragorn's or any other character's eyes for that matter when I can see it through my character's very own? Session plays are ways of the story to fold out when your character couldnt possibly be there. When considering how big this very battle was I do not see any reason why my character couldnt possibly be there among the crowd. I am a solo player (in fact it must have been 2 years since I last raided) so session play idea should work out for me but it doesnt. In my opinion it has to be a raid and it has to be a raid of many phases. In my head it would wok out like this: The first phase takes place atop the outer wall where you kill x amount of mobs and have to destroy ladders and if you fail to do so you get overwhelmed by mobs and get defeated before the phase ends you have to defeat a boss too. Second phase would take place after the Uruks would breach the wall, the party would take place face to face with overwhelming mobs and would have to survive x amount of time and then retreat to the keep where they would get a breather with a chest of second phase waiting for them, maybe even have a vendor to repair. The last phase of the battle would be triggered through speaking to Theoden. And you would have to make your way out of the keep through fighting mobs and a boss right before meeting Gandalf and the other character whose name at the moment escapes me (forgive me for being vague, trying to write while a three year-old tugs at my blouse :P). That is how the raid would fold out in my head. And although a strictly non-raider myself, this would be the raid I would join in.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Admener View Post
    If you notice, in my post, that there is no mention of Helm's Deep being comparable in size to Moria, purely design. I was speaking on the map layout, not the size of the zone itself.
    You couldn't have something with a design comparable to Moria unless it's size was also comparable. Not exactly as big, but it'd have to be close. Sure, Gimli was impressed by the caves, but that 's not much to indicate that it was in any way comparable to Moria.

    And the note on kinship housing is that I just find Kins to be so static and them having no influence over the whole of Middle Earth.
    Which is as it should be. Kinships have no place in the in-universe fiction of Middle-earth. They are entirely a player-level (as opposed to a character-level) phenomenon.

    I feel like Kin Skirmishing and Kin progression would be a cool idea and that maybe kin houses can be reinforced and they can be fought around or something. Like I said in my post this is all just spitballing and I get why it would be a bad idea but one can always hope.
    One can always hope for what you agree is a bad idea?
    Last edited by maxjenius; Mar 05 2013 at 12:06 AM.

  9. #159
    No the zone really doesn't need to be the size of Moria, since when has zooming in on specific parts of the map been purely about size. Plenty of other places that are marginal in size to Moria utilize this technique in order for the player to grasp the area better, that's all I was trying to get at.

    And I never said I agreed that I thought my idea about Kin fighting and strife would not be good, because I think it'd be pretty cool and get us involved. I know people don't like when there is the potential for lore debasing, but still it would be awesome.

    Judging from all the other posts in this thread, shooting down people ideas, you're just grumpy for some reason.
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  10. #160

    It should absolutly be seige warfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legiorlos View Post
    Helms Deep is one of the major events in Middle Earth history and the way Turbine implements it will be viewed as setting the stage for the other major battles yet to come.




    Here are some ideas of mine:
    1- First off it needs to be the biggest, most grandiose and innovative thing that we have ever seen in this game so far.

    2- It should introduce a brand new system into the game. I propose some type of new siege warfare system that is the most innovative system yet (maybe class based siege warfare skills that can be ranked up or something, whatever

    happens, siege warfare WILL HAVE to eventually be a big part of Minas Tirith and the Battle of Pelennor Fields when that finally comes out).

    3- They also need to make mounted combat an important part of it too. (Like when King Theoden and company ride out to meet their foes or when Gandalf and Eomer arrive near the end of the battle with the Riders of Rohan and attack the
    field).


    4- The actual battle should be huge. Far bigger than anything we've seen so far. Not just graphically but also involving massive numbers of enemies constantly coming at you (and some of them very tough enemies that requires a raid to

    take down). I recommend using an open world instance format but make it some type of constantly ongoing and evolving open world PVE raid instance (and everyone could earn marks, medallions & tokens of the Riddermark as well as rare loot). There should also be a brand new Helms Deep pvp zone that is completely SEPERATE from the PVE part and yet somehow they can both influence each other (maybe though buffs). The pvp zone should also incorporate mounted combat as well as siege warfare as well. Also you can include a strategically placed yet moving forest of angry huorns on the free peoples side. Monster players can get the ability to mount their warg friends or introduce a new goblin rider class.




    Again Helms Deep needs to be the BEST, most innovative thing that we've ever seen so far in LOTRO. If it’s just something mediocre (or even worse a solo-able area like Isengard (which by the way would have never have happened during

    that time period of Middle Earth)) and it becomes something people eventually get board of and never want to return to than that's going to set a very bad precedent for the future direction of this game. Please Turbine! I'm begging you; please get Helms Deep done right!


    These are only my suggestions. Does anyone else have any ideas of their own they would like to share concerning the Battle of Helms Deep? Any critiques?


    Isangard should be a siege instance as well. That is what they could do. Turn it into an instance where you and all you kin (no matter where they are in the game) can jump into the battle at spawning areas inside HUGE skirmish camps. There are some kinship's' out there that have over 800 members and if they set out to take Helms Deep (or Moria for that matter) they would schedule an assault and all members of the kinship would go there every time they logged in until the assault was completed or routed. You have to get your butt kicked in battle a few times so this should not be a cake-walk. You get a couple of large kinship's together and you'll have an epic event that will go viral throughout the gaming world, not just within LOTRO community.

    I think that there should be an ability for Captains to rally troops to them within heated melee. You know, like joining a Fellowship of sorts. Stats come up of the people who were close enough to answer the call so they can be directed. Any Captain of 50 + should get this. There are some out there that are very gifted tactically and should direct the flow of combat. Captains should get auto update messages of what the other Captains are doing so they can co-ordinate their actions.

    That is how you do all of this. You create an instance. And just like in the ones they already have players get soldiers to direct in battle. Captains give orders and Others carry them out with the aide of their NPC's This really could be awesome if the guys at Turbine would just listen. It really wouldn't be that hard to do either. They already have everything they need and just make few changes here and there, copy and past the code for Helms Deep and set the player parameters for Instances. Then make a few amendments to the abilities and there you have it.


    Have a great day,

    Shadowkillre KoKuRyuKai
    Hunter (32)


    .

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowkillre View Post
    Isangard should be a siege instance as well. That is what they could do. Turn it into an instance where you and all you kin (no matter where they are in the game) can jump into the battle at spawning areas inside HUGE skirmish camps. There are some kinship's' out there that have over 800 members and if they set out to take Helms Deep (or Moria for that matter) they would schedule an assault and all members of the kinship would go there every time they logged in until the assault was completed or routed. You have to get your butt kicked in battle a few times so this should not be a cake-walk. You get a couple of large kinship's together and you'll have an epic event that will go viral throughout the gaming world, not just within LOTRO community.

    I think that there should be an ability for Captains to rally troops to them within heated melee. You know, like joining a Fellowship of sorts. Stats come up of the people who were close enough to answer the call so they can be directed. Any Captain of 50 + should get this. There are some out there that are very gifted tactically and should direct the flow of combat. Captains should get auto update messages of what the other Captains are doing so they can co-ordinate their actions.

    That is how you do all of this. You create an instance. And just like in the ones they already have players get soldiers to direct in battle. Captains give orders and Others carry them out with the aide of their NPC's This really could be awesome if the guys at Turbine would just listen. It really wouldn't be that hard to do either. They already have everything they need and just make few changes here and there, copy and past the code for Helms Deep and set the player parameters for Instances. Then make a few amendments to the abilities and there you have it.


    Have a great day,

    Shadowkillre KoKuRyuKai
    Hunter (32)


    .
    Isengard is dealt with by the Ents off screen. We've played our part in pre-siege Isengard, and won't return to it until it's flooded.
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    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  12. #162
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    Use your brains!

    Obviously the devs thought it out ahead of time, yes the books said that there was only one man, one elf and one dwarf who were not of the rohirrim at helm's deep, but Turbine took care of that in RoR, after hytbold you essentially ARE of the rohirrim, through rebuilding hytbold you become thane, in essence making you one of the Rohirrim, your race can easily be overlooked in this fashion.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazeran View Post
    Obviously the devs thought it out ahead of time, yes the books said that there was only one man, one elf and one dwarf who were not of the rohirrim at helm's deep, but Turbine took care of that in RoR, after hytbold you essentially ARE of the rohirrim, through rebuilding hytbold you become thane, in essence making you one of the Rohirrim, your race can easily be overlooked in this fashion.
    Turbine one step ahead makes sense but would that mean ALL of our characters need to become Thane to make that happen? That would take a long long time lol so must be another solution to fit us elves, dwarfs, and hobbits in
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  14. #164

    The Battle of Helms Deep will make or break LOTRO (continued)

    This is the continuation of an older on-going discussion about Helms Deep that I'm pretty sure existed before the official Helms Deep thread was started in the General Discussion area.
    This conversation was started with the intention of encouraging an ongoing discussion about Helms Deep and the various ways different people think it could (and should) be implemented. I'm glad to see that since than a lot more people have been thinking seriously about the subject enough to warrant it's own major section in the LOTRO forums.
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...or-break-LOTRO

    Since than I've had some additional thoughts of my own on the subject that I'd like to share and figured that it makes sense to continue this topic in the "new" section where it belongs.





    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowkillre View Post
    Isangard should be a siege instance as well. That is what they could do. Turn it into an

    instance where you and all you kin (no matter where they are in the game) can jump into the battle at spawning areas inside

    HUGE skirmish camps. There are some kinship's' out there that have over 800 members and if they set out to take Helms Deep

    (or Moria for that matter) they would schedule an assault and all members of the kinship would go there every time they

    logged in until the assault was completed or routed. You have to get your butt kicked in battle a few times so this should

    not be a cake-walk. You get a couple of large kinship's together and you'll have an epic event that will go viral

    throughout the gaming world, not just within LOTRO community.

    I think that there should be an ability for Captains to rally troops to them within heated melee. You know, like joining a

    Fellowship of sorts. Stats come up of the people who were close enough to answer the call so they can be directed. Any

    Captain of 50 + should get this. There are some out there that are very gifted tactically and should direct the flow of

    combat. Captains should get auto update messages of what the other Captains are doing so they can co-ordinate their

    actions.

    That is how you do all of this. You create an instance. And just like in the ones they already have players get soldiers

    to direct in battle. Captains give orders and Others carry them out with the aide of their NPC's This really could be

    awesome if the guys at Turbine would just listen. It really wouldn't be that hard to do either. They already have

    everything they need and just make few changes here and there, copy and past the code for Helms Deep and set the player

    parameters for Instances. Then make a few amendments to the abilities and there you have it.


    Have a great day,

    Shadowkillre KoKuRyuKai
    Hunter (32)


    .
    I definitely agree with a lot of this and would like to see something developed along these lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deorwyn View Post
    We're definitely going to Helm's Deep with our own characters. I'm positive about this. Read:



    This is from the most recent dev chat transcript. Yes, we're getting Helm's Deep instances, although it is not said if they

    take place during the actual Siege of Helm's Deep in which Aragorn & Friends fought; although I can't think of any other

    setting - in the books there is no mention (iirc) of any battles in the days before and after the siege. So I guess we're

    going to help defend the Hornburg & the Deeping Wall against Saruman's legions of Uruk-hai....and get loot for it. The

    quote says it's the instance team that's working on Helm's Deep, and this is jwbarry talking, who is the lead raid

    designer iirc. The question was about upcoming multiple boss raids, the answer was "Helm's Deep experience". It all adds up

    to Helm's Deep (or parts of it) will be the new raid instance for Western Rohan. While there will surely be more to see of

    Helm's Deep outside of this raid (The open-world version of it will probably set after the siege) I do not know if there

    will be session play involved. The epic story will go to there, I guess. But if you are a raider, your character will, too.

    Even if it says somewhere, we weren't there...we will be.
    Thank you for sharing this. It's very good to know that they got an early start on it.




    The title" The Battle of Helms Deep will make or break LOTRO" was never meant to be taken as a literal absolute. It's meant

    to spark a community conversation to encourage the Devs to keep making LOTRO somewhat live up to it's namesake (an amazing

    game that reflects an amazing book series). Helms Deep is a big deal in that book series and deserves the extra attention

    IMO.

    My thoughts on it are basically this: According to J.R.R Tolkien, the Battle of Helms Deep is one of a very few major

    battles of epic proportions (epic sized battles is one of the more obvious things that make Tolkien's books separate and

    distinct from most other popular works of fantasy fiction).. In the LOTR books there were not many small skirmishes, there

    were a select few EPIC SIZED BATTLES. Therefore if we are going to follow Tolkien's vision of Middle Earth than Helms Deep

    needs to stand out on it's own as something completely different and much larger than anything us "Free Peoples" have

    experienced so far. This event even merits an entirely new system to be introduced for the game (or at least a combination

    of various old systems (like a large scale multi-group skir-instance cluster that 1- cuts down lag, 2- allows for many

    players to take part at the same time. Something where they can see other players in the "instance next door" but they just

    can't get there (this will cut down on lag while giving the feeling of being a part of a massively giant sized battle). 3-

    people can join and leave as fellowships or raids or even solo and than rejoin later if they wish.

    Since this is likely the biggest event that the Free Peoples experienced up until that point in the story. NOT

    making this battle larger and in some ways different than anything we've thus experienced so far in the game so

    far WOULD BE EPICALLY LORE-BREAKING IMO
    Last edited by Legiorlos; May 31 2013 at 04:24 PM.

  15. #165
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    tl;dr

    But I've been playing Turbine games since 1998, and I trust that whatever the heck they come up with, i'll do my best to do it.

    (Fighting is not my strong point. I'm hoping that whh's hypothesis that for the Hornburg we'll have session plays as Rohirrim is somewhere near the truth, and I'll have a predetermined character designed to be able to deal with whatever they throw at him.

    (Since neither my Elf, my Hobbit, nor my female Man were there.)
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  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legiorlos View Post
    Thank you for sharing this. It's very good to know that they got an early start on it.
    The person you quoted is making a lot of stew from one onion. I don't think his conclusion is justified by the material he cites. While I agree that, from what has been said that the Battle of the Hornburg will have one or more instances, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to conclude that our usual characters will be there. And, according to the lore, they shouldn't be.

    The original thread revolved around debates over what Turbine could and/or was likely to do in the complete absence of information from Turbine.

    We now have a press release...which is a very tiny amount of data to go on.

    The only firm statement that has been made is that the battle zone will NOT be a PvMP zone, so that particular position/desire has been closed off.

    During the earlier discussion, the main ways to handle the battle were seen as (1) our characters are there (violates lore); (2) skirmishes (problem is that some people hate skirmishes); (3) session play (problem is that some people hate session play).

    What I suspect is being done is something quite different. It is combining a previously disparate set of technologies to create battles that look bigger than they actually are; comprise one or more instances; are public instances that may be freely entered and left without formal groups causing a new instantiation to be created; use the technique for making creeps to create level 95 Rohirrim soldiers that only exist within those instances but which have persistence across play sessions and can be customized to a limited degree.

    It will be interesting to see what Turbine actually does with this battle, but by now the general structure is set and only time will tell what we get and what players think of it.

  17. #167
    I must confess I will be a bit disappointed if my character isn't present at Helms Deep during the battle. SOme people say having hundreds of Hobbits or Elves or Dwarves there will break the lore, but it wouldn't be 100's in MY story, there would just be me & my bro Legolas.

    We have roamed around Angmar, interacted with the Fellowship in Rivendell & Lorien, opened up Moria, invaded Mirkwood, slapped some Nazgul around & even tweaked Sarumans nose, as well as ridden Giant Goats. The Lore is tweaked when it needs to be for gameplay purposes.

    Still from what we have read I think the ideas written above are looking likely, we will be present at Helms Deep playing a Rohan grunt, with a Hytbold like set of missions to do every day.
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  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheld_GB View Post
    Still from what we have read I think the ideas written above are looking likely, we will be present at Helms Deep playing a Rohan grunt, with a Hytbold like set of missions to do every day.
    That will suit me fine.

    /grunts experimentally
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kheld_GB View Post
    I must confess I will be a bit disappointed if my character isn't present at Helms Deep during the battle. SOme people say having hundreds of Hobbits or Elves or Dwarves there will break the lore, but it wouldn't be 100's in MY story, there would just be me & my bro Legolas.
    The way to make that happen would be for the instances be solo-only, and that's another option that will cheese off quite a few people. (Just as making the Hornburg instances raids would be a major problem to others.)

    When you get right down to it, Turbine can't please everybody, no matter how the Battle of the Hornburg is designed. Their challenge is to seriously offend as few people as possible.

  20. #170
    i really really think that our character should be in the battle of helm's deep, at least in the final battle.
    we, nona, horn, corudan and aragorn, legolas, gimli trio should be there together.
    if not at least our characters, i'll be deeply disapointed.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParrotGuy View Post
    i really really think that our character should be in the battle of helm's deep, at least in the final battle.
    we, nona, horn, corudan and aragorn, legolas, gimli trio should be there together.
    if not at least our characters, i'll be deeply disapointed.
    I betcha that we, Corudan, Horn, and maybe even Nona will show up at the Hornburg AFTER the battle. Whether we get to meet Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli at that time is up to the Valar who sit on their glorious thrones in Massachusetts.

    Consider that so far, all our interactions with events in the main plotline of the books occur either after the Company have gone on their way, or as session play as, e.g., Boromir.

    Even the characters from the books don't always get to be on hand where and when the action is. Consider how Faramir and Eowyn stood on the ramparts of Minas Tirith when the Ring fell, and didn't know what they were seeing, and didn't find out till hours later.
    Last edited by djheydt; Jun 01 2013 at 01:48 PM.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    It is quite possible that our characters may indeed have part in this battle without completely breaking established lore albeit that lore is bent to make our presence there possible.

    When Gandalf arrives just in the nick of time with Eomer and his army of men loyal to him to save the day - would it not be possible for our characters to have joined with them? We are already in Rohan at this time helping the Rohirrim face the onslaught of Saruman. Therefore, it is not too far of a stretch that we would find opportunity to join in with Eomer's army.

    I think the artwork for the current LOTRO loading screen and the backdrop for this forum illustrates this completely...

    welden
    Last edited by welden; Jun 01 2013 at 02:13 PM.
    Welden of Elendilmir

  23. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by welden View Post
    It is quite possible that our characters may indeed have part in this battle without completely breaking established lore albeit that lore is bent to make our presence there possible.

    When Gandalf arrives just in the nick of time with Eomer and his army of men loyal to him to save the day - would it not be possible for our charaters to have joined with them? We are already in Rohan at this time helping the Rohirrim face the onslaught of Saruman. Therefore, it is not too far of a stretch that we would find opportunity to join in with Eomer's army.

    I think the artwork for the current LOTRO loading screen and the backdrop for this forum illustrates this completely...

    welden
    it's from the movies. in the books, eomar and his men fought with the other rohirrim in helm's deep and gandalf arrived alone with the hurons.
    but i think breaking a bit of lore won't hurt.
    i mean, our character weren't in the books, talking with the fellowshimp in lorien or watching them depart from riveldell.

  24. #174

    Lore Violation, what???

    1) I don't see how having our characters at the battle of Helms Deep is a lore violation at all. How is that a lore violation and all the other junk we do in the Epic Story isn't? The dwarves retaking Moria for example? Heck, in the movies they put freakin Elves in the battle of Helms Deep. Now THAT'S a lore violation.

    2) Does anyone here really think they are going to release an expansion called "Helms Deep" and not have our characters even participate in that battle? That would knock a point or two off of review scores automatically.

    Okay, those are my criticisms. I do have one POSITIVE contribution to this discussion. Here is a quote from the press release: "Explore the Westemnet of Rohan and rally each of the five Ridings as Rohan returns to glory." It is possible that in the Epic Story we are part of the group that rallies Erkenbrand's men for Gandalf and shows up "on the 5th day." It also would be nice to participate in the March of The Ents/Siege of Orthanc in some way.


    EDIT: In the books, when Theoden leaves Edoras with he is travelling to the fords of Isen. When he finds out en route that the fords have fallen he decides to travel to Helms Deep instead, against Gandalf's advice.
    Eomer is present at the battle of Helms Deep fighting by Aragorn's side. Gandalf is riding around the Mark rallying Erkenbrand's fleeing men (who previously defended the fords of the river Isen.)
    "On the 5th day" since leaving Theoden, Gandalf arrives at Helms Deep with Erkendrand and all his soldiers. The Hurons arrive on their own accord, not by Gandalf's doing, although he suspected they might do something because he is a Wizard.

    Okay, The Lore Police is done trolling now.
    Last edited by Finnway; Jun 03 2013 at 10:01 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d216000000134c35/01002/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    10,510
    Quote Originally Posted by Finnway View Post
    1) I don't see how having our characters at the battle of Helms Deep is a lore violation at all. How is that a lore violation and all the other junk we do in the Epic Story isn't?
    Nobody is claiming the other things aren't lore violations, but that doesn't justify another one. Indeed it argues that the supply of "lore cookies" to spend making lore violations may be running low and Turbine had better stick closer to the lore from here on out.

    The dwarves retaking Moria for example?
    Turbine has--effectively--admitted that is a mistake and the group of dwarves we helped will be wiped out and the real retaking of Moria will come later.

    Heck, in the movies they put freakin Elves in the battle of Helms Deep. Now THAT'S a lore violation.
    Yes it is and it's one of things that causes some of us to disdain the movies.

    2) Does anyone here really think they are going to release an expansion called "Helms Deep" and not have our characters even participate in that battle? That would knock a point or two off of review scores automatically.
    Since the fight is properly the Battle of the Hornburg, yes, I think Turbine may very well work it so that our characters don't get there until after the battle and help with repairs, clean up, and tending the wounded. If my conjecture is correct, Turbine has a way for us to participate in the battle, not with our characters that were--by the books--NOT THERE.

 

 
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