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  1. #1
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    Have you ever fought a RvR with 7 defilers trowing flies at you?

    I did and it was not fun (on freep side of course). I want to see who will argue that flies don't need a nerf. 5 of the 7 defilers were high ranked (Slideshow, Grogog, Poppies, Ailly and Irritable - sorry if I got any name wrong).

    Not asking about other stuff that might be OP and need nerfs, talking about flies.

    The entire freep raid was with 0 power in 3 seconds. Gratz creeps for the win, you really deserved, very good job. I hope you all had a good laugh while it lasted, because it didn't last long of course.

    Here, have a nice pic of your awesome accomplishment. Sorry I took the pic a little late, it is not showing a freep raid with full morale and 0 power.

    Mellar@Gladden, DOTH Hunter.

  2. #2
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    It happens. Most nights there aren't oodles of defilers, and you know it. Flies are crazy with that many defilers on, but when it's normally just three or four of us it's tolerable. That doesn't mean flies aren't OP, they are, but they aren't raid breakers like people make them out to be.

    Last night it seemed freeps could have used one of their normal leaders, but without any of those folks on you make do. Was not a great night for freeps, buttloads of flies were just another kick in the pants.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shau'nac View Post
    It happens. Most nights there aren't oodles of defilers, and you know it. Flies are crazy with that many defilers on, but when it's normally just three or four of us it's tolerable. That doesn't mean flies aren't OP, they are, but they aren't raid breakers like people make them out to be.

    Last night it seemed freeps could have used one of their normal leaders, but without any of those folks on you make do. Was not a great night for freeps, buttloads of flies were just another kick in the pants.
    Idk, i thought Merridan did well. The flies and the lag were killer last night. Tried to havr it open field, but it wasn't meant to be.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeylad View Post
    Idk, i thought Merridan did well. The flies and the lag were killer last night. Tried to havr it open field, but it wasn't meant to be.
    It seemed disorganized, but a lot of freeps were new to a lot of us on creepside, so that's part of it I'm sure.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shau'nac View Post
    It seemed disorganized, but a lot of freeps were new to a lot of us on creepside, so that's part of it I'm sure.
    Yeah, true. Can flies be targeted? I know one fella asked that during the raid.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeylad View Post
    Yeah, true. Can flies be targeted? I know one fella asked that during the raid.
    Nah, I can throw them at Suzy but they're just as likely to hang out with her as they are to run off to Billy.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shau'nac View Post
    Nah, I can throw them at Suzy but they're just as likely to hang out with her as they are to run off to Billy.
    Aww poo
    Can you aoe them?

  8. #8
    The raid was pretty well organized, leaded by Merridan (Burg).
    We have tried like 3-4 strategies against flies - but nothing helped.
    There is no leader who could deal with that situation.
    Besides we had just 2 minis and 1 RK as healers.
    But w/o power all of us and them were useless.

    But yeah I agreee, it is pretty rare situation when there are out that many defilers, so it was more of exception.
    And of course there was no sense to continue that fight.

    IMO, the best option - introduce controllable amount of flies in the raids (by developers). For example, 3-4 flies per raid would be awsome + maybe longer cooldown.

    P.S.: Of course that is hard to introduce by developers and if gonna happen - it will take tooo much time. So guyz, if you want normal fights in such situations - please, agree on who of defilers is going to use flies - as I've mentioned above - 3-4 per raid would be good and we can have a lot of fun .
    Last edited by Leopoldio; Jan 14 2013 at 04:38 AM.

  9. #9
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    Honestly, much to Grog's chagrin, I use my flies rarely. Usually only in situations when I'm out of, or nearly out of, power and my pots are on CD. I know how much of a pain they are, I'd rather have sustained fights not roflstomps because all the freeps had no flippin' blue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeylad View Post
    Aww poo
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeylad View Post

    Can you aoe them?

    Whatcha mean? They have a small aura, generally when they get near ya they're eating your power. Uhh don't really pay too much attention if they hit multiple people at once, just absorb the blue and keep throwing gourds or slime.

  10. #10
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    Poppies he means can they BE AoE'd and killed, and I think they can... not sure though.
    [B][CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000][SIZE=3]Gladden[/SIZE]
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatManDoo View Post
    Poppies he means can they BE AoE'd and killed, and I think they can... not sure though.
    I was unsure, I mean the earlier question was can you target them. ;P And yeah they can be aoe'd down; they can be CC'd, too.

  12. #12
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    Why don't you spread your healers out or kill the flies. The healing output freeps have is rediculous anyways.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030100000ae792/signature.png]Eunuch[/charsig]
    My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. My power is discombobulatingly devastating.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkshipOfLanterns View Post
    Why don't you spread your healers out or kill the flies. The healing output freeps have is rediculous anyways.
    Yes yes yes. I didn't want to bring it up, 'cause I assumed y'all were just buffing or whatever, but the little encounter we had at the base of GV hill just before the night ended was bad. Y'all were all in a big ball and when we pushed you didn't move, you just stayed grouped up and got aoe'd to hell. Well, 'til people started to run back up the hill.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Shau'nac View Post
    Yes yes yes. I didn't want to bring it up, 'cause I assumed y'all were just buffing or whatever, but the little encounter we had at the base of GV hill just before the night ended was bad. Y'all were all in a big ball and when we pushed you didn't move, you just stayed grouped up and got aoe'd to hell. Well, 'til people started to run back up the hill.
    Spreading is not helping. Flies moving to ones who deals most damage. Those are LMs and Champs. And flies flying around back and forward. While we spread - our healers got killed + we must keep focus fire + handling the flies + to all of that you have to select from 60 targets on screen exactly those flies which is really hard even with tabbing. It is too much to deal with in such big raid + constant video/traffic lags (No matter i have dual video cards and 100MBs connection).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopoldio View Post
    Spreading is not helping. Flies moving to ones who deals most damage. Those are LMs and Champs. And flies flying around back and forward. While we spread - our healers got killed + we must keep focus fire + handling the flies + to all of that you have to select from 60 targets on screen exactly those flies which is really hard even with tabbing. It is too much to deal with in such big raid + constant video/traffic lags (No matter i have dual video cards and 100MBs connection).
    Thing is flies are CC-able and easily killed. I recall at one point laughing on mic because I noticed all of your healers, or at least the three alive, were standing on top of one another in the center of your group. They were promptly dispatched.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shau'nac View Post
    Thing is flies are CC-able and easily killed. I recall at one point laughing on mic because I noticed all of your healers, or at least the three alive, were standing on top of one another in the center of your group. They were promptly dispatched.
    We didn't know how to tackle the flies. We tried piling up to make targeting harder, but that didn't work.

  17. #17
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    Are you talking about Plague Of Flies, Or are you talking about rk 14 store bought Enhanced Plague Of Flies?


    There's a big difference, and I would like to subject you to this wall of text pulled from another thread that offers a few thoughts on this matter.............








    "3. A larger issue is the enhanced plague of flies is for sale on the lotro store which is an R14 skill, so is plaque of flies which is R5. So anyone with 600Tp can buy both and be OP. An R14 defiler should be a handful and should have this ability, you ever seen an R14 defiler? Not a lot around. So the fact these are on sale is a problem and will likely end up getting the skills nerfed."


    "Again we have to make sure we insert the caveat that improved flies are an R14 skill. I don’t think the skill is OP I think the ability for any level defiler to get them is and that’s really the problem. My change would require turbine to rank gate sales (I know that sound ridiculous but this Turbine) to +2 level. So a rank 12 can buy the R14. Sadly I don’t think that’s going to happen so rather than a nerf I’d rather have freeps thrown a few buffs."


    "Power drains are a &&&& mechanic for pvp."


    "first is the ability to buy the advanced skill in the store"


    "As for it being a rank 14 skill, what does it matter since you can have it at R0?"


    "Before this gets any more off topic I'll end here by saying, yet again, improved flies are too powerful for how easy they are to acquire via the store. That's all this is about, if you want to try making it about something else, I suggest making another thread."




    This was my contribution to that discussion..................


    "Whether or not flies are op in and of themselves, and possibly need a mechanic tweak isn't really the issue.


    The issue, and I know it's already been said in this and many other threads, is previously rank-gated creep skills being available in the lotro store.


    Period.

    End of discussion.


    Given the fact that there are NO rk 14 Defilers, US or EU, nobody should be complaining about Improved Flies. It shouldn't even be a topic of conversation.


    If you have Improved Flies and use them in pvp situations, that is supremely weak and fail. Sorry, it just is.


    Im sick and tired of seeing creeps using skills they have no business having.


    Whether it's a Rank 6 defiler poppin Improved Flies or a Rank 6 reaver popping Wrath, Against The Odds, and Dying Rage.


    Lol, wut? Complete and utter fail, that's what.


    For me, and many others, the solution, the ONLY solution, is to remove these skills from the store.


    Sure, it would've been nice to have Improved Swift Bow @ lvl 5 when I was running around leveling, but that would have been fairly ridiculous, insanely OP, and not really in the spirit of the game.


    Same principle applies to the moors.


    From a player standpoint, there is no justification or argument to be made in this regard.


    REMOVE THE ABILITY TO BUY SKILLS FROM THE LOTRO STORE."



    Thank you and have a nice day."

    .............................. .............................. .............................. .............................. ..........

    Now, I would like to go even further, and say that the fact that the Enhanced rk 14 version of the skill was revamped back in 2011 as noted by Kelsan, even though then, as now, there aren't ANY rank 14 defilers in this game, is just terrible, yet shows they are ONLY concerned with money, and who may be buying these skills in the store.


    Fairness and balance aren't even abstract terms to Turbine; the words simply don't exist.


    I would say the same for the peeps that pop these store skills as well.


    Store skills should only be offered as an alternative to Commendations...........ie: you STILL have to be the required rank for the skill, but you have the OPTION of spending comms in game or Turbine Points in the store to aquire that skill.


    Wonder how many peeps would be okay with this?


    For the Johnny Storms that wanna say somethin', flame on.


    I could care less.

  18. #18
    My two cents worth.

    Rank 14 Flies - It doesnt matter what rank the skill is supposed to be. The devs added the ability to purchase creep skills because creeps had lots of skills that were effectively never seeing the light of day (and of course it was a good way to make a buck.) My rank 7 defiler has the upgraded rank 14 flies trait and I expect any halfway serious defiler I encounter to have the upgraded flies. They need to be balanced assuming they are traited. (Side note: Unless they changed it with RoR flies are not generally CCable. They can be feared but thats it.)

    The raid v raid fights -
    Healing - Lots of factors play into the success of a raid, but healing is right at the top of the list. Lots of people in the freep raid were complaining that Creeps are OP. The truth of the matter is that healing largely rules the moors right now. When freep raids have 4+ mins and 4+ capts its really hard for creeps to get any kills. The same is true on creep side when they have 8+ healers. That night the creeps had 7 defilers and at least 2 warleaders. Our freep raid had 3 mins, 1 healing rk, and 1-2 capts at various times. That's just a rough match-up. You will notice that the regular freep leaders usually stack healing before they roll a raid out. That makes a hard night for the creeps.

    Focus Fire/Experience - The 7 flies were a serious pain but our freep raid was also suffering from a lack of focus fire. If the creep raid has 9+ healers and you don't focus and switch targets quickly then nothing is going to die (excepts freeps of course). One clear sign that our focus fire was bad... I tried having all ranged DPS follow a separate target assist with one goal in life: kill all flies instantly. The flies didnt die. I am willing to bet that the creeps werent healing the flies so... that pretty well means the freeps weren't shooting them. I also tried having the 3+ champs focus on nothing but flies. The result...? Questions about how you target flies while the raid fight was going on. The freep raid lacked some experience (and possibly audacity?)

    The Ball Fiasco
    That was ENTIRELY my bad. I had read speculation on the forums that flies are draining power every time you take a step in their AOE. Since our raid was having trouble finding the flies to kill them the thought was: Stay in a tight ball (old Aristeides strat). Dont move so the flies wont drain additional power. In addition if we are all in a ball you know where the flies are going to be... The champs should be able to AOE them. Also if we are in a tight ball it is harder for the creep raid to single out healers and hunters for fast kills. The result... yeah not so much... My bad. Try mixing the strats up. Win some lose some.

    Upshot?
    Its the moors. Death happens. Have fun and fight on!
    Last edited by Mystarr; Jan 14 2013 at 04:43 PM.
    Merridan - Burglar lvl 105 (Rank 12)
    Gormadan - Minstrel lvl 105 (Rank 4) : Traldan - Captain lvl 105 : Celebdan - Weaver (Rank 11)

  19. #19
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    Live, learn, get Luvs.

    The store is there for all, not just freeps. You can spend your money however you wish, creeps can do the same. I have flies and I use them sparingly, for I know their immense power (and the inevitable QQfest that follows).

    As long as we can still kill each other I'm content.

  20. #20
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    I have over 15,000 turbine points i wish i could use on freep stuff. The only real thing i need are a couple upgrade audacity pieces and the helm and chest. But I've put too much time into my guard to just flip back to my creeps.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeylad View Post
    I have over 15,000 turbine points i wish i could use on freep stuff. The only real thing i need are a couple upgrade audacity pieces and the helm and chest. But I've put too much time into my guard to just flip back to my creeps.
    If you're lazy go for virtues and LI stuff. I keep forgetting delving scrolls in the store are only 195TP, that's usually the only thing I buy besides the +20% infamy gain thingies.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shau'nac View Post
    If you're lazy go for virtues and LI stuff. I keep forgetting delving scrolls in the store are only 195TP, that's usually the only thing I buy besides the +20% infamy gain thingies.
    Already have maxed virtues. :x
    Guess I could go for LI, I was gonna level a warden for the moors since I feel guards aren't too useful outside of shieldwalling in raids.

  23. #23
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    Thank you for not saying the words "nerf", "rage", "OP" or making an attack against anybody in this thread
    Last edited by AnElephant; Jan 15 2013 at 09:02 PM. Reason: forgot a word
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  24. #24
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    I shall rage against the OPness of Enhanced Plague Of Flies until they nerf them back into a rank gated skill not available in the store.


    Raise my fist and resist!!......o.O
    Last edited by Althorion; Jan 15 2013 at 10:37 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    I shall rage against the OPness of Enhanced Plague Of Flies until they nerf them back into a rank gated skill not available in the store.


    Raise my fist and resist!!......o.O
    Maybe they'll remove brands, pots and other stupid store tools too.
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

 

 
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