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  1. #51
    Hunters are fine and definately don't need more survivability in PVE. If you are pulling aggro that much, you are doing it wrong. It sounds like you need to give your tank some time to establish aggro. You don't change the class to make it work. You should change how you play. I hate the arguments that you have trouble with something so it must be the games fault.

  2. #52
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Hunters are fine and definately don't need more survivability in PVE. If you are pulling aggro that much, you are doing it wrong. It sounds like you need to give your tank some time to establish aggro. You don't change the class to make it work. You should change how you play. I hate the arguments that you have trouble with something so it must be the games fault.

    Let me repeat this for those that don't seem to understand..................

    I can go forever without pulling agro, but in doing so, i'm nerfing myself from doing the ONE thing i'm supposed to be doing, which is putting max dps on target. (unless i'm performing a cc role, which is another conversation)

    Yes, I give tanks time to establish agro. Doesn't matter, i'll pull it back eventually, unless, AGAIN, i'm nerfing my dps output.

    And to that I say why should I have to?

    Any other class having to "nerf" their skills in a group setting?

    And I don't mean initially for tank agro...I mean sustained throughout a boss fight.


    Any other class at all?

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    Let me repeat this for those that don't seem to understand..................

    I can go forever without pulling agro, but in doing so, i'm nerfing myself from doing the ONE thing i'm supposed to be doing, which is putting max dps on target. (unless i'm performing a cc role, which is another conversation)

    Yes, I give tanks time to establish agro. Doesn't matter, i'll pull it back eventually, unless, AGAIN, i'm nerfing my dps output.

    And to that I say why should I have to?

    Any other class having to "nerf" their skills in a group setting?

    And I don't mean initially for tank agro...I mean sustained throughout a boss fight.


    Any other class at all?
    Well, first off, I will say you are only playing with bad tanks or you don't have a good setup. The well geared tanks in my kin can hold aggro if you give them time to establish it. I only have the problem of managing aggro in pugs or with our newer tanks.

    Managing the aggro when needed is one of the only challenges of this very easy class. Why would you want to make the class even easier to play by giving even more survivability?

    As for what other classes do, I wouldn't know. I have only played a hunter in on level end game raids. I would say that if those classes play a way that you think is more fun, shouldn't you be trying them instead of changing the one you don't like? There are other dps classes. There is even another ranged dps class.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Hunters are fine and definately don't need more survivability in PVE. If you are pulling aggro that much, you are doing it wrong. It sounds like you need to give your tank some time to establish aggro. You don't change the class to make it work. You should change how you play. I hate the arguments that you have trouble with something so it must be the games fault.
    I solo just about all the time, and i can't help pulling 4 mobs aggro when they're right next to each other.

  5. #55
    /signed.

    Being an elf I have the elf parry skill and it has been useful when I draw aggro. It has a long cooldown though and is available only to elven hunters. I think we need a bit more survivability.
    I agree with the OP that we shouldn't need to have to adjust our dps output when we 're supposed to actually... ehm, dps.
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  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Celembar View Post
    hhhhmmmmm i wonder what a 1v1 beteween a ba and a hunter would be like???? hhhhmmmm
    Poorly played BAs would be in some serious trouble, hence why they are rushing to the thread to not sign it.

    Every class in the moors has atleast 2~ 'oh &&&&' skills which enhance survivability.
    Reaver - DR, Against the Odds
    BA - MT, Get a grip
    War Leader - Get a grip, Quitters Never Win
    Warden - NS, DC
    Champ - Bubbles, DN, Sprint
    Guard - Pledge, WH, Sprint
    LM - Wisdom, Storm Lore
    Weaver - Burrow, TC, WTE
    Burg - TnG, KO, hips
    etc.

    All which are in general better skills than CoTH, and either offer more morale/temporary morale than a 1.5k bubble, or have the potential to make you immune to slows for 10+ seconds. Another skill will a sizable CD was needed in terms of balance to counter the amount of I-Win skills like MT, DR, TC which are overboard when solo.

    /signed if changed to parry, and if agile rejoiner heal gets a lower CD, and stacks.
    Last edited by Priestetute; Jan 15 2013 at 11:11 AM.
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  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestetute View Post
    Poorly played BAs would be in some serious trouble, hence why they are rushing to the thread to not sign it.

    Every class in the moors has atleast 2~ 'oh &&&&' skills which enhance survivability.
    Reaver - DR, Against the Odds
    BA - MT, Get a grip
    War Leader - Get a grip, Quitters Never Win
    Warden - NS, DC
    Champ - Bubbles, DN, Sprint
    Guard - Pledge, WH, Sprint
    LM - Wisdom, Storm Lore
    Weaver - Burrow, TC, WTE
    Burg - TnG, KO, hips
    etc.

    All which are in general better skills than CoTH, and either offer more morale/temporary morale than a 1.5k bubble, or have the potential to make you immune to slows for 10+ seconds. Another skill will a sizable CD was needed in terms of balance to counter the amount of I-Win skills like MT, DR, TC which are overboard when solo.

    /signed if changed to parry, and if agile rejoiner heal gets a lower CD, and stacks.

    What two oh &&&& skills do cappies have to enhance their survivability? :P I noticed they were not on your list. =D
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  8. #58
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    /signed
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  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoriph View Post
    What two oh &&&& skills do cappies have to enhance their survivability? :P I noticed they were not on your list. =D
    Make haste, LS.
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  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    And I don't mean initially for tank agro...I mean sustained throughout a boss fight.


    Any other class at all?
    Hmmmmmmm, the only class that I can think that can pull aggro from a tank without challenging it is an rk. But this is very rare, this is the case in which the fight has already been 15sec+ and the rk is just hitting crit/devs. Only happened to me once, pulled Durchest off of my tank while we were doing the 3 heavy in front of Durchest decoy tactic, I literally shot some 10-15 crits/devs with all those buffs from the healing rk, cappy, and mini in my side of the raid. But remember that this is rare.

    In your normal occasion, a hunter would normally pull aggro off from a their tank(s) in bout 10sec after they start dpsing, even if the tank has aggro the boss for a min or 2.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Managing the aggro when needed is one of the only challenges of this very easy class. Why would you want to make the class even easier to play by giving even more survivability?
    Because in raids it well likely cause a wipe if the boss gets out of hand, trust me I've seen many raids getting wiped by hunters who held far too much aggro (BN and DS popped) and the tank still couldn't regain aggro unless challenged by someone.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Hunters are fine and definately don't need more survivability in PVE.
    This thread was originally about hunter survivability in PvMP.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestetute View Post
    Make haste, LS.
    How is make haste an oh &&&& skill for a solo cappy? I'd love to hear the reasoning. If you're in an "oh &&&&" moment, make haste isn't a skill you'd pop.
    Last edited by Theodoriph; Jan 18 2013 at 12:49 AM.
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  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Theodoriph View Post
    How is make haste an oh &&&& skill for a solo cappy? I'd love to hear the reasoning. If you're in an "oh &&&&" moment, make haste isn't a skill you'd pop.
    You could make the same argument for guard or champ sprint.
    Make haste clears slows, gives 5 second slow immunity and the +run speed duration can be legacied up to 45 seconds. Do you really think incombat sprints don't enhance survivability?
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  15. #65
    /signed - but on its own, not enough to make hunter,s anywhere near to being on par with other classes.

    Hunters are a joke to play on the moors atm, with average dps and nil survivability against high ranked creeps.

    Very simple solution for everything you want, simply play a BA!!!

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    8
    The skill would be nic, but useless. Soloing hunter dont need any more survival skills(not even the bubble they have now).

    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    Okay smart person, what do you do in a raid when BN and DS are on cd and you pull agro again? You run around like a chicken for 3 seconds before you die. So nice for you, and the whole group. Yay!


    And before you say anything, sure, hunters can stay in Endurance and spam QS to not pull agro, but then thats kind of beside the point of being a max dps machine like we "supposedly" are. Not to mention boring and completely NOT fun.
    This is just bs If hunt and tank know how to play their class this rarely happens.
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  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by cethwin View Post
    The skill would be nic, but useless. Soloing hunter dont need any more survival skills(not even the bubble they have now).



    This is just bs If hunt and tank know how to play their class this rarely happens.
    My thoughts exactly ^^ (with the BS bit)
    Fractal

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by cethwin View Post
    This is just bs If hunt and tank know how to play their class this rarely happens.
    This. I was in Durchest last night healing, and a DPS Rk kept pulling agro. Literally 5 seconds after the tank got it back on one occasion, the RK hit EC.

    The point being that if all your agro skills are on CD and you pull agro again, you are just not playing well.
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  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by falaswen View Post
    My thoughts exactly ^^
    Quote Originally Posted by falaswen View Post
    Hahaha I laugh too, I can't do anything against 20k reavers, so laugh away. Hah hah, hah hah!
    :Confused: If you can't do anything against 20k reavers which is typically the average morale for ranked reavers, not to mention the fact that a few ranked reavers on Ridder like Fissure, don't even pop CDs like wrath or against the Odds in 1v1s, then how are you fine with hunter survivability? I don't even recall you being a decent fight whenever I encounter you solo in the moors without Hips or TS or a delving pot. So when you are struggling against creeps that are already gimping themselves solo, how are you going to pretend like you have enough survivability?
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  20. #70
    I'm sorry I'm not uber pro against a rank 12 reaver with 20k health?
    It honestly doesn't phase me enough to say 'oh hunters really, really stink. Fu hunter class!'
    Again, its not like I'm meant to kill everything. If you want to bring my average play style in, go for it.
    I'm not exactly a pro, there are players that are WAY better than me.
    This survival thing just doesn't phase me.
    Fractal

  21. #71
    Hunter bubble is a joke..

    Adding a BA evade clone wont help in PvP

    Nuff said, amirite?
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  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by cethwin View Post
    The skill would be nic, but useless. Soloing hunter dont need any more survival skills(not even the bubble they have now).
    Again, the thread was about moors not pve so stop changing the subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by cethwin View Post
    This is just bs If hunt and tank know how to play their class this rarely happens.
    What you said is just literally already been proven false. Even a well played and geared tank well lose aggro from hunters when they go max dps. Ether that or your hunter isn't doing all out dps (late/early boss fights).
    Along side with that, hunters have no really good aggro dumb skills. Only thing to do while BN and DS are on CD is to a) run around and hopefully not die b) just die c)endurance QS spam.
    Last edited by lioheart; Jan 23 2013 at 01:44 AM.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Aronath View Post
    Hunter bubble is a joke..

    Adding a BA evade clone wont help in PvP

    Nuff said, amirite?
    Evade doesn't help hunters even though the normal hunter well have around 16%-20%+ evade rating.
    The bubble is pointless besides from slow removals and stun.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by falaswen View Post
    I'm sorry I'm not uber pro against a rank 12 reaver with 20k health?
    It honestly doesn't phase me enough to say 'oh hunters really, really stink. Fu hunter class!'
    Again, its not like I'm meant to kill everything. If you want to bring my average play style in, go for it.
    I'm not exactly a pro, there are players that are WAY better than me.
    This survival thing just doesn't phase me.
    That is where this thread came from.
    Hunters are suppose to dps, but not kill everything (mainly pvmp, 3/6/12 mans).
    Point was that hunters have a problem on living and that PO is useless (except for power recover in long boss fights) and that an alternative can be found for this skill.
    Last edited by lioheart; Jan 23 2013 at 01:38 AM.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennicide View Post
    The point being that if all your agro skills are on CD and you pull agro again, you are just not playing well.
    So saying that the best hunters on the sever pulling aggro when BN and DS are on CD means that they are not playing well? What if it was the tanks fault for not producing enough aggro or challenging the boss?

    Note: BN only lower perceived aggro, not dump aggro. So it is off you get all that aggro back.
    DS, stated by I think smugo, lowers aggro by 10% which isn't enough since hunters are normal No.2 in aggro.

    These skills have a long CD, BN I believe 2m? with legacy and DS 4:30 with legacy (no capstone). So bout 2-4m going back to dpsing after dropping aggro, what do you do? dps again, and what will likely happen? since that 60% aggro returns, likely another pull unless challenged.

 

 
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