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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    This is about hunters only.


    Thank you, and have a great day!
    Sorry, but no. If a class gets changed, it has a trickle down effect on other classes. Especially when it comes to monster play. I'm all for giving more survivability, given how much hunters get beat on in the moors, but what are you willing to give up for it?

    You can't expect to have the same survivability as other classes while pumping out that much dps. This is anecdotal evidence, but my BA puts out somewhere around 550-600 sustained dps against full audacity geared freeps/training dummies, burst damage aside. I don't know what the parses are on freep, but given that some people are putting out nearly 4k dps in raid situations, it hardly seems balanced.

    Saying that 'it's about hunters only' would only work if hunters didn't go to the moors.
    Income/This/Behind/Thanks - Reshi/Warrden/Iwill - Post/Overcompensation

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reshi View Post
    Sorry, but no. If a class gets changed, it has a trickle down effect on other classes. Especially when it comes to monster play. I'm all for giving more survivability, given how much hunters get beat on in the moors, but what are you willing to give up for it?

    You can't expect to have the same survivability as other classes while pumping out that much dps. This is anecdotal evidence, but my BA puts out somewhere around 550-600 sustained dps against full audacity geared freeps/training dummies, burst damage aside. I don't know what the parses are on freep, but given that some people are putting out nearly 4k dps in raid situations, it hardly seems balanced.

    Saying that 'it's about hunters only' would only work if hunters didn't go to the moors.


    You're entirely right.........it's not only about hunters.


    It's also about all the other freep classes that would benefit from this skill when grouped with a hunter.


    My bad.


    As for the moors, I don't expect to have the "same" survivability as other classes. I just think hunters should have a little more than they do, and this would definately make some headway in that direction.


    Also, for the 10,000th time, the disparity in dps between freeps/creeps is offset by the disparity in morale between freeps/creeps.


    So sayeth the devs.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Reshi View Post
    Sorry, but no. If a class gets changed, it has a trickle down effect on other classes. Especially when it comes to monster play. I'm all for giving more survivability, given how much hunters get beat on in the moors, but what are you willing to give up for it?

    Saying that 'it's about hunters only' would only work if hunters didn't go to the moors.
    This argument goes both ways, other freep classes have gotton thoughtful and good revamps and updates. During this time the hunter class (possible a few others) got practically nothing that was of use. Update after update with every class getting at least one bug fix and hunters getting nothing, our bugs still buggy and the amount of choices still the same. Its not that I want the hunter class made OP i just want to be on the same level as the classes which have gotten update which were much better then our pitiful update one and a half years ago.

    Being made up to the new par with each update and expansion is a need to keep balance and not leave one class in the dust due to negligence. Sadly the hunter class will always stay the same while others get updates which give them the ability to get to their max potential using all their trait lines and skills in a smooth manner.

    On a side note: Mounted combat for hunters is very nice. If only we had 3 trait lines as good as those for on foot.
    Last edited by Legonist; Jan 11 2013 at 10:15 PM.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by QueenArleth View Post
    By all means, take our pathetic excuse of a bubble. First of all it doesn't spawn until 3 seconds after you hit it, in which case youre probably already dead. Second, sometimes it doesn't even activate. Ive seen this happen way too often. And finally, it's such a small bubble that by the time it spawns, if you aren't already dead, creeps can easily DPS through the bubble, hardly a feat really. It's terrible and was Turbine's way to try to quiet down complaints, way to go turbine. Give us a real survival skill.

    Although I have the elf racial parry buff, it has a long cool down and I like the idea of another one that would be more viable. /signed.
    The hunter bubble has an AoE daze and an AoE slow, plus your inductions are not set back by damage while the bubble exists... isn't that enough? That daze + slow is enough to buy you some time to pop some pots to alter the phase of the battle.

    And also, if this skill is added to the game, it does not affect only hunters but other classes as well. The original poster visualized that this skill affects hunters alone, but the reality is no... it shifts the balance of all classes. The reason why the devs deprived hunters of decent survivability is the fact that your DPS is very huge. And with such huge burst damage comes a penalty, and that is your survivability. Dealing exceptional damage and having decent survivability at the same time is being overpowered.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120301000024bcf2/signature.png]Halphas[/charsig]

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darathelion_Eriagon View Post
    /not signed

    You already have the hunter bubble, that's enough.

    That can be taken down in pretty much two auto-attacks or three bleed ticks. Also, doesn't prevent slows when it's already up, only removes them on use. BAs still have their 30 seconds of MC Hammer duration to wreak havoc on hunters, and our bubble laughably impotent. Oh, and it takes 3.2-.3s before the bubble even spawns after you click the skill thanks to animation time, where BAs MT is an instant cast. There's honestly no comparison here.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darathelion_Eriagon View Post
    The hunter bubble has an AoE daze and an AoE slow, plus your inductions are not set back by damage while the bubble exists... isn't that enough? That daze + slow is enough to buy you some time to pop some pots to alter the phase of the battle.

    No. Just no.


    And let me tell you why.....


    The hunter bubble really is a joke, at least as a viable survival utility in the moors. You don't play a hunter (I think) so you don't really know. Every bad thing said about that skill is true. Every single one. It was poorly thought out, poorly designed and poorly implemented. CC in the moors has become a joke, and you can pot both the stun and the slow. The bubble couldn't save me from a rabid squirrel, and half the time I fall asleep during the animation waiting for the skill to pop off.


    And I would trade Cry of the Hunter for the skill I metioned at the beginning of this thead in a hot second.


    Hunters are, by a fair margin, the squishiest, most unsurvivable freep class (EVERYBODY knows this), yet our dps does not, by a fair margin, out do any other dps class, if at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darathelion_Eriagon View Post
    Dealing exceptional damage and having decent survivability at the same time is being overpowered.

    Yet dealing exceptional damage and having decent survivability at the same time = Burgs, Champs, RKs, Minstrels, Wargs, Reavs, BAs, Weavs.




    Right.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    No. Just no.

    And let me tell you why.....

    The hunter bubble really is a joke, at least as a viable survival utility in the moors. You don't play a hunter (I think) so you don't really know. Every bad thing said about that skill is true. Every single one. It was poorly thought out, poorly designed and poorly implemented. CC in the moors has become a joke, and you can pot both the stun and the slow. The bubble couldn't save me from a rabid squirrel, and half the time I fall asleep during the animation waiting for the skill to pop off.

    And I would trade Cry of the Hunter for the skill I metioned at the beginning of this thead in a hot second.

    Hunters are, by a fair margin, the squishiest, most unsurvivable freep class (EVERYBODY knows this), yet our dps does not, by a fair margin, out do any other dps class, if at all.

    Yet dealing exceptional damage and having decent survivability at the same time = Burgs, Champs, RKs, Minstrels, Wargs, Reavs, BAs, Weavs.

    Right.
    The hunter bubble is fine, the only thing the devs need to change about it is to shorten the animation or remove it once and for all, and increase the amount of morale the bubble has by at least 150%-200% of the initial morale it has right now.

    And regarding about hunter DPS, it is fine, you can kill a signature landscape mob in just a few seconds compared to other DPS classes that needs about half a minute to do so. And to be honest, when you go to other class forums, all they do is whine about the class they are playing right now and how inferior they are compared to other classes. I'm not surprised why you say your DPS is not enough when it actually is. My first character was a hunter and I enjoyed him the most, but I deleted him after a long while when I got bored of him and replaced him with my Guardian.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120301000024bcf2/signature.png]Halphas[/charsig]

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Darathelion_Eriagon View Post
    The hunter bubble is fine, the only thing the devs need to change about it is to shorten the animation or remove it once and for all, and increase the amount of morale the bubble has by at least 150%-200% of the initial morale it has right now.

    And regarding about hunter DPS, it is fine, you can kill a signature landscape mob in just a few seconds compared to other DPS classes that needs about half a minute to do so. And to be honest, when you go to other class forums, all they do is whine about the class they are playing right now and how inferior they are compared to other classes. I'm not surprised why you say your DPS is not enough when it actually is. My first character was a hunter and I enjoyed him the most, but I deleted him after a long while when I got bored of him and replaced him with my Guardian.
    Those changes to the bubble would make it a little better but there is one problem, its fixing a skill that the hunter class has. The hunter class rarely if ever get bug fixes or changes to skills/trait lines. Pretty much all the skills that were useless/broken 8 months ago are still broken or are useless.

    As for hunter dps it is truly a joke the other dps classes can either do the same amount of dps as us but also have a fair amount of survivability/heals. Our dps is still Ok but as a majority glass cannon class the dps does not make up for the few seconds in which most creep classes can easily burn down our moral, also i have had a fair number of npc's do crits that hit for almost all my health. One time in one of the new three mans the boss one shot me when i had two minis healing me. Overall the dps we do does not equal the lack of a good secondary role and survivability.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post
    Those changes to the bubble would make it a little better but there is one problem, its fixing a skill that the hunter class has. The hunter class rarely if ever get bug fixes or changes to skills/trait lines. Pretty much all the skills that were useless/broken 8 months ago are still broken or are useless.
    If they aren't fixing it, then they aren't doing their job properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Legonist View Post
    As for hunter dps it is truly a joke the other dps classes can either do the same amount of dps as us but also have a fair amount of survivability/heals. Our dps is still Ok but as a majority glass cannon class the dps does not make up for the few seconds in which most creep classes can easily burn down our moral, also i have had a fair number of npc's do crits that hit for almost all my health. One time in one of the new three mans the boss one shot me when i had two minis healing me. Overall the dps we do does not equal the lack of a good secondary role and survivability.
    They should increase hunter DPS by a small bit if you feel it's still not enough. But for me, hunter DPS is fine, the bubble just needs to be improved.
    Last edited by Darathelion_Eriagon; Jan 12 2013 at 12:34 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120301000024bcf2/signature.png]Halphas[/charsig]

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Darathelion_Eriagon View Post
    If they aren't fixing it, then they aren't doing their job properly.
    There is a long list of broken skills/trait lines/useless skills which haven't been fixed in over a year. Just need someone like Lendas to post the list cuz its too much for me to remember.
    The end of an age has come and the wheel of time turns on. We will meet again when the wheel allows it.

  11. #36
    /unsigned
    This skill is not necessary for the class by any means. Other tweaks concerning PvP as a whole instead of new skills would be much more sensible.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post





    Yet dealing exceptional damage and having decent survivability at the same time = Burgs, Champs, RKs, Minstrels, Wargs, Reavs, BAs, Weavs.




    Right.
    haha, a hunter can burst me down before I've even made a scratch on him. That bubble makes me spazz out and unable to do anything cause stuns last 2-3sec longer than they should cause of lag/delay. I can hardly see hunters having too much of a problem against anyone except for reaver & weaver.

    then again, the nerf on the store brand might have hit you too hard
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    haha, a hunter can burst me down before I've even made a scratch on him. That bubble makes me spazz out and unable to do anything cause stuns last 2-3sec longer than they should cause of lag/delay. I can hardly see hunters having too much of a problem against anyone except for reaver & weaver.

    then again, the nerf on the store brand might have hit you too hard
    hunters are actaully pretty good, its just no one can play them.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Light12 View Post
    hunters are actaully pretty good, its just no one can play them.
    I know one person in our server that has never complained about the hunter class. He was contented with what the class has and plays it to its maximum potential. I won't say his name since he is one of my friends and also for privacy reasons. I don't want Gladden hunters flaming him at glff just for this matter.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120301000024bcf2/signature.png]Halphas[/charsig]

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darathelion_Eriagon View Post
    I know one person in our server that has never complained about the hunter class. He was contented with what the class has and plays it to its maximum potential. I won't say his name since he is one of my friends and also for privacy reasons. I don't want Gladden hunters flaming him at glff just for this matter.
    jealousy and rage, that is what you will find on the parody of hunters on our server at the moment, I believe I know who you're talking about
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

  16. #41
    ....


    I like trains.

    ./not signed.
    Hunter class is fine imo. If you pull aggro in a raid whilst PVE'ing, use beneath notice and distracting shot and DON'T dps for a little...not that hard guys.
    Also, the damage seems fine to me for PvP'ing. Look at how you play and your rotations, gear etc.
    A little more morale could be given on the bubble, but in all, we ARE a dps class....by all means, yellow trait and go CC in the moors if you want to 'survive'. One way or another, you will die
    Fractal

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    jealousy and rage, that is what you will find on the parody of hunters on our server at the moment, I believe I know who you're talking about
    Quite true.

    And don't tell his name to anyone. Promise me.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by falaswen View Post
    ....


    I like trains.

    ./not signed.
    Hunter class is fine imo. If you pull aggro in a raid whilst PVE'ing, use beneath notice and distracting shot and DON'T dps for a little...not that hard guys.
    Also, the damage seems fine to me for PvP'ing. Look at how you play and your rotations, gear etc.
    A little more morale could be given on the bubble, but in all, we ARE a dps class....by all means, yellow trait and go CC in the moors if you want to 'survive'. One way or another, you will die


    Okay smart person, what do you do in a raid when BN and DS are on cd and you pull agro again? You run around like a chicken for 3 seconds before you die. So nice for you, and the whole group. Yay!


    And before you say anything, sure, hunters can stay in Endurance and spam QS to not pull agro, but then thats kind of beside the point of being a max dps machine like we "supposedly" are. Not to mention boring and completely NOT fun.


    No, give the hunter a meaningful "avoidance" skill.


    How bout this one?.................


    Hunters Defense

    +50% PARRY
    +25% Additional PARRY against Melee attacks

    (would have additional benefit of triggering AR more for the small heal)

    Duration: 25 seconds
    Cooldown: 4 minutes



    There.


    No more crying about that being anyone elses skill.


    Even though there are SEVERAL skills throughout this game that either mirror or are at least very similar to other classes, this skill is now unique and purely hunter.


    Haterz?....................... ......

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by falaswen View Post
    by all means, yellow trait and go CC in the moors if you want to 'survive'.
    Going full yellow line in the moors is just a death sign. Poor dps comparing to blue and red, little to no crit multiplier, and every CC you throw at creeps well just be branded. With that &&&&&& yellow line dps against those big morale creeps, it is better to DF before the fight begins.

    If brands never existed (unfortunately they do) then full yellow line wouldn't have any problems in the moors besides fighting ranged creeps.


    Edit: actually going anywhere above 2 or 3 yellows is already a death sign.
    Last edited by lioheart; Jan 13 2013 at 05:16 PM.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    No, give the hunter a meaningful "avoidance" skill.

    How bout this one?.................

    Hunters Defense

    +50% PARRY
    +25% Additional PARRY against Melee attacks

    (would have additional benefit of triggering AR more for the small heal)

    Duration: 25 seconds
    Cooldown: 4 minutes

    There.

    No more crying about that being anyone elses skill.

    Haterz?....................... ......
    I actually posted something like this in another hunter fixing whatever thread.
    All-n-all I'm for it because it helps set up AR.
    Not to mention it'll add some bit of survivability, +50% parry rating for 25sec is more than enough for hunter to survive. With the normal +20% parry rate, it makes it 70% parry rate.

    /signed

  21. #46
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    I don't see the point of adding this. Yea it would be nice, i don't see why Hunter's should get this outside of the fact that you want it. Hunter's don't need more survivablity outside of the moors. If they are going to fix something let it be the hunter lines which sorely need a revamp. As well as about a half dozen hunter skills that are mostly bad, like HS, MS, Hunters Art
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  22. #47
    /signed

  23. #48
    I wasn't trying to be smart...I was using common sense. Again if you do grab aggro and those skills are on CD, stop dps'ing until the tank has full control on the Boss/Mob. I don't really have an issue with aggro, unless I don't know/haven't run with the tank before.

    Personally, if I do go on a run where I don't know the tank/tanks, I don't dps for about 15secs at the start, even then I don't go full pelt. If it gets really bad, then yes I will go into endurance and quick shot spam. Though that hardly happens anyways. But that's how I roll. Also this is my input and thoughts to the thread, so by all means call me a smartie. I like it
    Fractal

  24. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Althorion View Post
    +50% PARRY
    +25% Additional PARRY against Melee attacks

    (would have additional benefit of triggering AR more for the small heal)

    Duration: 25 seconds
    Cooldown: 4 minutes

    Haterz?....................... ......

    I thought that parry is only useful against melee attacks anyway? That's to say ranged attacks can only be blocked (frontal) or evaded (360 degress) but certainly not parried.

    Isn't moving target exactly the same skill as 'bob and weave' from chicken play anyway?

  25. #50
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    /signed


    Hunters currently only have two heal/morale bubble and they don't get one of them until level 81? The other they get at level 24 (that was added recently). Champs have three by level 28. RK's can heal themselves/morale bubbles pretty early. cappy,s can also self heal/buff early on. Wardens get healing gambits. Guadians get are just really tanky. Mini's also heal themselves/buff. LM's have Wisdom of the council at level 20 and at level 4 Inner flame. Burgs have Mischievous glee and Touch and Go at level 10.

 

 
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