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  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by apb8808 View Post
    CC has been split into separate DR tables IIRC, on I think a 20 sec reset timer? Something along those lines. Long story short, Trick range + MM build makes it quite possible to kill a reaver while taking only a few attacks. Its the sort of fight that separates the burgs from the thieves.

    Not telling you L2P because not every burg can pull off but if you think you have considerable LOTRO chops then I'm sure you can do it.
    Not only is that an incredibly boring and cheap play style (trick kiting, for real?) it also requires most Burgs to grind an entire new set of LIs and relics. This is ontop of already being required to have multiple other LIs and relics for utilitarian purposes.

    Someone else already summed it up perfect: Burglar skillset is just plain ineffective. Gambler is tedious and unreliable. MM I commented on above. I really do defy any Burglar that is "destroying" creeps with their "epic" Gambler debuffs and MM CC to post some videos of it.

    Burglar progression does not match that of most other classes over the years. It's obvious Turbine has no idea what the hell they want to do with Burglars. It's very frustrating to go from God-mode to tissue paper within the course of single updates. Believe it or not, most Burg players would prefer the middle ground and then be left the hell a lone. It's a very fun and unique class that I think will sadly be ruined once Turbine "updates" them by removing all the intricacies they can't seem to balance anymore.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgrum View Post
    There is a disconnect here and a rather large one. A lot of freep players seem to think that the way it was is how it should be. The dev diary was crystal clear on what they wanted, they wanted a domination style season, that means:

    No soloing

    Creep morale gets scaled to accommodate freep DPS

    Burg CC is nerfed from aud (not new in this season, im throwing you a bone)


    This is what they want, this is what creeps wanted and we QQ'd for after the ridiculous ROI expansion. You're going to have to let go of the fantasy, its raid up or die for freeps and hope you don't run into massive amount of creeps. The silver lining is this though, the limitations placed on you and new balanced toons on creepside is going to weed out the people who dont want an even match notice all the spiders running around? Those are your old freep friends, when the going got tough they flipped. Your now in a weaker position because they bailed, had they stayed and raided up you might be ok.

    Im not saying the zerg RvR is the way I want it, its just the way it is and the main problem now is because of the tweeks to create that condition it comes down to population. You've been thrown to the wolves by some of your old freep friends there over here now with R5 spiders with reflect and R6 defilers with improved flies.

    No amount of CC is going to help you, no new skill will save your &&&. You're all alone, and I respect the freeps that still come out knowing some of their numbers flipped. That adolescent malcontent inside of me smiles every time I see a known freep on his creep.

    Dont worry the full time creeps are laughing at them, they know and feel your pain. Still, its your time to die.
    "You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later." As a freep-only player Thor I agree completely and don't even mind the situation that much the challenge is sort of fun. I wish I had more time to go to the mores right now. Your post was an accurate summary with wicked wit that made it fun to read.
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    Not only is that an incredibly boring and cheap play style (trick kiting, for real?) it also requires most Burgs to grind an entire new set of LIs and relics. This is ontop of already being required to have multiple other LIs and relics for utilitarian purposes.
    Having to power drain healing mini's and RK's in fraids in order to beat them was pretty boring and cheap, yet there were no complaints from your ilk. It is a scenario that will result in 100% victory against reavers if done correctly, i.e. "possible". Sorry no sympathy for requiring additional LI's, you should already have a set of LI's for likely potential class roles. Don't be upset with the developers because your lazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    Someone else already summed it up perfect: Burglar skillset is just plain ineffective. Gambler is tedious and unreliable. MM I commented on above. I really do defy any Burglar that is "destroying" creeps with their "epic" Gambler debuffs and MM CC to post some videos of it.

    Burglar progression does not match that of most other classes over the years. It's obvious Turbine has no idea what the hell they want to do with Burglars. It's very frustrating to go from God-mode to tissue paper within the course of single updates. Believe it or not, most Burg players would prefer the middle ground and then be left the hell a lone. It's a very fun and unique class that I think will sadly be ruined once Turbine "updates" them by removing all the intricacies they can't seem to balance anymore.
    No what you and other burgs want is to be able to trait full on DPS, maintain your utility belt and have the survivability of a champion. Or in lieu of said survival skills, nuke-type DPS which is an "incredibly boring and cheap play style". Really what it boils down to, is that all you burgs got your 2k ratings and farmed at will running solo. Now because you have to group up like everyone else, something *MUST* be wrong.
    Creeps: Fissure R-12
    Freeps: Presdas R-9, Arcteus R9, Dainsleif-1 R4

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by apb8808 View Post
    Having to power drain healing mini's and RK's in fraids in order to beat them was pretty boring and cheap, yet there were no complaints from your ilk. It is a scenario that will result in 100% victory against reavers if done correctly, i.e. "possible". Sorry no sympathy for requiring additional LI's, you should already have a set of LI's for likely potential class roles. Don't be upset with the developers because your lazy.



    No what you and other burgs want is to be able to trait full on DPS, maintain your utility belt and have the survivability of a champion. Or in lieu of said survival skills, nuke-type DPS which is an "incredibly boring and cheap play style". Really what it boils down to, is that all you burgs got your 2k ratings and farmed at will running solo. Now because you have to group up like everyone else, something *MUST* be wrong.
    I pretty much agree with Fissure, and not just because he goes easy against me in our 1v1s.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000006cbd4/signature.png]Nomere[/charsig]

  5. #30
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    Not really seeing the issue. Go and raid if you need aud pieces. I'm a pretty rusty and bad player, I am still getting kills. Fights take a bit longer now, which is vaguely in a burgs favour. Use your CDs early, change the balance of the fight, use your CDs again. Get a second glee off... etc

    Raids have been paying out well.. if I get focused too much, I pop some CDs and get out of the way and back to the fight.. I rarely follow the RAT and just annoy the healers.. or wargs annoying our healers or kill flies if I find them close. I have actually been enjoying the raiding on E lately, been some great fights. Creeps explode pretty quick if they are focused.. but overall I think half raids and full raids are pretty balanced and fun.

    I am kind of disappointed that gearing swapping is pretty necessary now, but cie la vie. We are squishy, but it is not impossible to get kills. I sill need a few more 1v1s to hone my skills but I can get kills, I die too.. everyone needs points
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000005049e/01005/signature.png]Paso[/charsig]

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by apb8808 View Post
    Trait full on DPS, maintain your utility belt and have the survivability of a champion....[and] nuke-type DPS
    Sounds like a Reaver.

    And we have a winner!

    And the fun part is is that you didn't have to work for any of it!

    Yay!
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    10-15 horribly geared burgs, maybe...Seriously, what kind of burgs do you have on your server? A good burg should get at least 3k on a surprise strike from stealth.
    Oh...okay:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr45fPsnBh4
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    Well,2500 on a crit.. Now we dont know your gear/stats and neither the traits of the BA ^^
    Also the more Burgs the more dmg you would do with SS,dont forget the Mark adds up per Burg.. Wich should make 5 Burgs like you there enough to kill that BA with just Surprise Strikes.. Maybe 6.. But as someone said,since when is the strenght of a class determined by how many it takes to 1shot an enemy If so i will QQ that my Defiler needs 10 other Defilers to onehit a Hunter!

    Also,are there still ppl out there that switch gear to get setbonuses for advantages? I mean,like go 100% dev chance with Aim,then go dps gear and do the first hit,and then back to audacity gear or something? That would be a 3k hit or more i guess...

    P.S. Its kinda OT but i liked your comment on the vid : The more you put yourself out there and go for the harder kills the better player you become.
    If more would think like that,the Moors would be much more fun
    Last edited by Cillion; Jan 11 2013 at 08:16 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_toad View Post
    "You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later." As a freep-only player Thor I agree completely and don't even mind the situation that much the challenge is sort of fun. I wish I had more time to go to the mores right now. Your post was an accurate summary with wicked wit that made it fun to read.
    Wonderful Im glad you approve. The freeps currently running spiders and new reavers will flip back dont worry. As more freeps come out and populations become more balanced they will flip, they always do.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    Oh...okay:


    What that picture fails to show is A. What type of gear you're using, how good your LIs are, and your traits.

    And B. What that BA has traited.

    I've seen dozens of burgs hit 3k+ on a normal crit against various creeps. Just because you can't it does not mean it's impossible.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d2160100000e1dea/signature.png]Andrag[/charsig]

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    What that picture fails to show is A. What type of gear you're using, how good your LIs are, and your traits.

    And B. What that BA has traited.

    I've seen dozens of burgs hit 3k+ on a normal crit against various creeps. Just because you can't it does not mean it's impossible.
    Sorry not now when every single creep is building for the updated critical defence (at least on Gilrain). Can barely hit 2k on BA and even less on reavers with full relentless and wl's.
    [Juregar/Laurelin] [Jureon/Evernight] [Ragetrain/Laurelin]
    Member of Puliveivarit
    I was a corner survivor

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    What that picture fails to show is A. What type of gear you're using, how good your LIs are, and your traits.

    And B. What that BA has traited.

    I've seen dozens of burgs hit 3k+ on a normal crit against various creeps. Just because you can't it does not mean it's impossible.
    Since getting 13 Audacity and slotting a single crit defense corruption, the highest a Burg has ever SS crit on my Reaver was 1200. The only classes now that can hit me for 3k or more are Hunters and RKs. I mean...are you really being serious? 3k SS would be high in RoI.

    I always prioritize Burgs as my target- even over RKs and Hunters. They're just so damn easy to kill. Especially in group fights, as you can blow through their morale with a single DoT-Impale-Dev before they even have time to react to it. Maybe sometimes I have to throw in a Ravage+Gutpunch

  13. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    What that picture fails to show is A. What type of gear you're using, how good your LIs are, and your traits.

    And B. What that BA has traited.

    I've seen dozens of burgs hit 3k+ on a normal crit against various creeps. Just because you can't it does not mean it's impossible.
    Do creeps naturally have comprehension issues?

    It's the same clicker Burg who everyone just praised.

    Jesus...it's like arguing with Helen Keller.
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  14. #39
    There are some dumb posts in this thread and some dumb stubborn people.

    My opinion is that why play a class that is doing less damage than it did in the previous update against creeps with much more health and dps now. We weren't close to OP in RoI compared to other classes and would just get slow kited in most fights, now other classes and creeps have progressed and got some good changes whereas the burg didnt get a thing.
    Jag

  15. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    Do creeps naturally have comprehension issues?

    It's the same clicker Burg who everyone just praised.

    Jesus...it's like arguing with Helen Keller.

    Brittain, you of all people should know this by now, but I'll lay it out for ya cause we're friends.

    Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
    Sholeh

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    Do creeps naturally have comprehension issues?
    You see 4-5 people you disagree with on this topic and suddenly that's a generic problem amongst all creeps? Time to take off the goggles, bud.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    It's the same clicker Burg who everyone just praised.
    Do you know how to count? Because, out of about 24 different people who commented on this thread, an astounding four people commented on the burglar's skill in that vid, and 2 of them weren't impressed. The other two said he was pretty good (with one admitting that the creeps he fought were sub-par).

    And now that counts as everyone? You must really enjoy making generalizations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkheart06 View Post
    I always prioritize Burgs as my target- even over RKs and Hunters. They're just so damn easy to kill. Especially in group fights, as you can blow through their morale with a single DoT-Impale-Dev before they even have time to react to it. Maybe sometimes I have to throw in a Ravage+Gutpunch
    Can't speak for your server, but on Dwarrowdelf only the bad burgs melt like that. Not trying to badmouth your server or anything, but if burgs are getting prioritized over hunters (who have far less survival skills, and less potent ones), then quite frankly, they're doing it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by colefire2 View Post
    There are some dumb posts in this thread and some dumb stubborn people.

    My opinion is that why play a class that is doing less damage than it did in the previous update against creeps with much more health and dps now. We weren't close to OP in RoI compared to other classes and would just get slow kited in most fights, now other classes and creeps have progressed and got some good changes whereas the burg didnt get a thing.
    Looks like someone never played creepside post-RoI.

    What was that you were saying about dumb posts?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0d2160100000e1dea/signature.png]Andrag[/charsig]

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by arundell View Post
    I'm well aware I will be told to learn to play my class and all the other half-thought troll attempts however I will convey what most leveled burglars feel.

    1) Due to audacity, burglar's stuns are somewhat useless. We are a class based off of position, and when there is only a 2 second stun that allows us to get a single, possibly two, of our full powered skills onto the target.

    2) Reavers are somewhat of an impossibility now. When combating 20k morale (Not saying that it was never a possibility to do so) is is very near improbable to be able to kill any now due to the fact that our evade (which is useless already) can be combated by spamming a single skill, and our knives out having such a short duration. While I can understand there should be a fight, when a reaver is nearly guarenteed a kill vs a burglar unless the burglar hipses away is something that needs to be fixed.

    3) The burglar moors set. Very nice, I enjoy the +20% devastate chance we are given, except for the fact that there is no fight in which we can use the buff to its potential (Unless of course we're PvEing in a PvP zone.)

    So that is a nutshell of my issues and the issues of several burglars I have spoken too. Allow the trolling to begin, and of course, I doubt anything will be done due to these issues.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjepiv9vqKc
    "Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
    "Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan

  18. #43
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    I've been at the receiving end of your dps Incendio many times and Burgs still hit hard. I dunno if your grouping up or not but get in a group with an LM and RK /Champ and its a stun and mezz fest and that creep will be dead fast. This just aint ROI anymore..and we're better for it overall.
    [url=http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/index.php][img]http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/wsiga.php/5668936TsVpp.png[/img][/url]
    Rank 12 Warleader, Flaprat Rank 11 Reaver, various other ones i'm useless at...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrittainTheCommie View Post
    At Lvl. 65, it took 4 Burgs to SS-one-shot a Creep. I.E. 4 Players Surprise Striking a single Player to kill him.

    At Lvl. 85, it will take 10-15 Burgs to do the same.

    The Burglar skillset is currently one of the least effective PvP skillsets available on Freepside. The Moors design (Audacity/Pots/Skillset) counters everything that once made a Burglar a lethal opponent. The same cannot be said for other Freep classes or the opposing faction.
    actually at 65 it only took 2 burgs to 1 SS one shot. I actually used to run in a 2 burg group and we would 1 shot ss kill probably 50% of the time even against high ranked creeps(usually ba's). My ba(at r8 or 9) was also 1 shot SS killed multiple times by a group of 2 burgs who stopped playing before the cap raised to 75.

    Now i don't play my burg at all anymore (that account is ftp and doesn't have rohan) so i can't say for sure what my burg could do but i do know if it takes 10+ burgs to 1 shot my 12k morale spider they should just delete and find a new game.coming from a creep prospective burgs do seem easier to kill now (but as a spider they have never been that hard unless they managed to perma cc you) but 1 of the 4 people who have beaten my spider 1v1 since rohan was a burg.Though i don't use everything i have available to me 1v1 cuz i want the fights to be fair and i feel spider is to op right now.

  20. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by thisisanewname View Post
    but 1 of the 4 people who have beaten my spider 1v1 since rohan was a burg.Though i don't use everything i have available to me 1v1 cuz i want the fights to be fair and i feel spider is to op right now.
    Ummmmmm.....

    Well, ummmm...okay.
    Brittain. Fidel. KimJongIl.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Andared View Post
    You see 4-5 people you disagree with on this topic and suddenly that's a generic problem amongst all creeps? Time to take off the goggles, bud.
    Or perhaps, you know, as blasphemous as this might sound, it's actually switched around. Maybe burglars have been on a downhill descent since U6, and finally with RoR our skillsets are absolutely useless.

    There is no point in explaining to you what is wrong with the class, so I won't bother. But hey, we can all just roll reavers instead, they're pretty fun I heard.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000030b05c/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by dantheman865301 View Post
    Or perhaps, you know, as blasphemous as this might sound, it's actually switched around. Maybe burglars have been on a downhill descent since U6, and finally with RoR our skillsets are absolutely useless.

    There is no point in explaining to you what is wrong with the class, so I won't bother. But hey, we can all just roll reavers instead, they're pretty fun I heard.
    This is inarguable.

    People who disagree don't play Burglars, or haven't since Moria. Burglar progression through the years has been completely unfocused. There's no synergy between the Burg's skill set outside of Quiet Knife. Other classes have gotten fantastic makeovers, yet each new update gives the Burglar completely random tools which obviously had no thought behind them.

  23. #48
    Since RoR went live I have gotten a little over 300,000 reknown.

    80% was done solo, the rest was in small groups, fellowships, and raids. I really enjoy soloing, but also enjoy grouping of all different sorts.

    While I am sure there are burglars out there that have killed more creeps than I have since RoR, it is probably safe to say I have killed more creeps than most. As such, I feel like I have a good perspective on the status of the burglar. The only creep you literally have no chance against is a high ranked defiler who uses store flies and is able to get them out early in the fight. The flies are broken, and you simply do not have the power or the time to get a kill under those circustances. When they summon those flies, they are essentially communicating " hey there! I don't actually want to fight you ". You can't kill this defiler, but of course this defiler cant kill you either, so its a bit of a stalemate. Matchups against ranked reavers and weavers are not matchups that are in your favor, but you can still win them.


    Something that was brought up in this thread: the whole idea that anyone has to group up, on either side, of any class, is utter BS. The zerg hard mentality of the current moors is a result of the risk/reward balance changing, and lots of bad players unable to perform solo, as well as bad-good players opting for the path of least resistance. No one has to zerg, no one has to group. Everyone is doing it, so everyone else is doing it too. Also, everyone is saying you have to do it. You can solo if you want to!

    The over all utility of the burglar class, the skills they bring to the table, simply does not compare to some of the classes you wind up fighting with and against. The passive statistics and defensive stats of the burglar simply do not compare to those available to other classes as well. I expect to see the burglar class receive development at some point. The tricky thing is burglars have the potential to be overpowered monstrosities.

    I am firmly committed to burgling the creeps of Elendilmir, and in some ways playing a burglar right now requires some persistence, and a bit of practice as well. There is no creep I can't kill (exception being the aforementioned defiler) however against some classes with more overall utility, stronger passive defenses etc. they have to make mistakes, or I have to play exceptionally well to win the fight.

    At this point, burglars need to put all their skills on the table in any given encounter. Use what you have. A burglar who is willing to play dirty, and use any trick at their disposal, can still excel in an environment where you are outnumbered 2 to 1 and your enemies have more utility and passive defenses available to them.

    I'm willing to chat with anyone who wants to send me a PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000013320a/signature.png]Rosenthal[/charsig]

    All of us knob heads miss you Sylidor - R.I.P.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhurgo_Burglefools View Post

    Something that was brought up in this thread: the whole idea that anyone has to group up, on either side, of any class, is utter BS. The zerg hard mentality of the current moors is a result of the risk/reward balance changing, and lots of bad players unable to perform solo, as well as bad-good players opting for the path of least resistance. No one has to zerg, no one has to group. Everyone is doing it, so everyone else is doing it too. Also, everyone is saying you have to do it. You can solo if you want to!

    .
    Everything you said + the Quoted Part,thanks alot,i fully agree and i am really glad that there are People out there that dont scream : Soloing is destroyed by Turbine Q.Q They decide how we play!.. Id love to play with more such people..

    +1 rep

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhurgo_Burglefools View Post
    Since RoR went live I have gotten a little over 300,000 reknown.

    80% was done solo, the rest was in small groups, fellowships, and raids. I really enjoy soloing, but also enjoy grouping of all different sorts.

    While I am sure there are burglars out there that have killed more creeps than I have since RoR, it is probably safe to say I have killed more creeps than most. As such, I feel like I have a good perspective on the status of the burglar. The only creep you literally have no chance against is a high ranked defiler who uses store flies and is able to get them out early in the fight. The flies are broken, and you simply do not have the power or the time to get a kill under those circustances. When they summon those flies, they are essentially communicating " hey there! I don't actually want to fight you ". You can't kill this defiler, but of course this defiler cant kill you either, so its a bit of a stalemate. Matchups against ranked reavers and weavers are not matchups that are in your favor, but you can still win them.


    Something that was brought up in this thread: the whole idea that anyone has to group up, on either side, of any class, is utter BS. The zerg hard mentality of the current moors is a result of the risk/reward balance changing, and lots of bad players unable to perform solo, as well as bad-good players opting for the path of least resistance. No one has to zerg, no one has to group. Everyone is doing it, so everyone else is doing it too. Also, everyone is saying you have to do it. You can solo if you want to!

    The over all utility of the burglar class, the skills they bring to the table, simply does not compare to some of the classes you wind up fighting with and against. The passive statistics and defensive stats of the burglar simply do not compare to those available to other classes as well. I expect to see the burglar class receive development at some point. The tricky thing is burglars have the potential to be overpowered monstrosities.

    I am firmly committed to burgling the creeps of Elendilmir, and in some ways playing a burglar right now requires some persistence, and a bit of practice as well. There is no creep I can't kill (exception being the aforementioned defiler) however against some classes with more overall utility, stronger passive defenses etc. they have to make mistakes, or I have to play exceptionally well to win the fight.

    At this point, burglars need to put all their skills on the table in any given encounter. Use what you have. A burglar who is willing to play dirty, and use any trick at their disposal, can still excel in an environment where you are outnumbered 2 to 1 and your enemies have more utility and passive defenses available to them.

    I'm willing to chat with anyone who wants to send me a PM.
    Haven't you heard that Burgs are extemely "broken"? +1 for a competent burg speaking up
    Creeps: Fissure R-12
    Freeps: Presdas R-9, Arcteus R9, Dainsleif-1 R4

 

 
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