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  1. #1

    Question 1st Age, 2nd Age & 3rd Age Question

    Basic question.

    I presume that all things being equal, a Lvl 75 LI (3rd Age) is inferior to a 2nd Age or 1st Age LI.

    However, in what way is this so?

    In my reading it seems there is a flood of 3rd Age LIs to be found but very, very, very few 2nd Age and even less 1st Age LIs. Even then...they might not be all leveled to where you want them. This could result in you finding a 1st Age LI but you have a 3rd Age LI just as good or even better because it's a higher level.

    Or am I missing something?
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,536
    All ages of LI's are craftable at certain level milestones (like 75 or 85). 3rd Age ones are very easy to craft as they don't require very rare/expensive ingredients. However, 3rd Age LI's drop very frequently on the landscape so there's usually not a need to craft them.

    While 2nd Age LI's of lower (Moria-ish) level are extremely rare landscape drops and 2nd and 1st Age LI's around level 60 can drop from Turtle, the 65, 75 and 85 2nd and 1st Age LI's have to be crafted using a Symbol. Symbol of Celebrimbor (plain = 65, Worn = 75, Tarnished = 85) for 2nd Age, Symbol of the Elder King (same prefixes) for 1st Age. 2nd Age symbols are mainly found in instances/raids of that level range, including skirmish raids, Helegrod and now BG. You get a level 75 2nd Age symbol as a book quest reward, and 65 and 75 2nd Age symbols are available for barter in the skirmish camp.

    1st Age symbols remain very hard to get. Level 65 ones only drop from OD T2, 75 ones from ToO T2, and 85 ones are not yet in game but will presumably drop from T2 of the new raids coming in February.

    The better Ages (1st > 2nd > 3rd) have higher base stats (so, higher dps/tac damage/tac healing/incoming healing/passives for 2h weapons/etc) but will also have more LI points to spend, allowing you to max out more legacies.
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    Ulver - 85 Runekeeper | Grevling - 85 Burglar

  3. #3
    So, what's the best stragegy?

    I have a 1st Age Burg Tools and 1st Age Burg Sword...already maxed.

    I'm grooming a 3rd Age Burg Sword because it has more damage than my 1st Age sword. I'm just leveling it, not artifacts yet. I probably will start over with a Lvl 85 3rd Age Sword anyhow.

    I figure as hard as 2nd and 1st age are to come across/buy from another toon who crafts them, maybe the smart money is to make a very good Lvl 85 3rd Age item and make it your main gun unless you ever get lucky and find that elusive Lvl 85 1st Age one to replace it.

    Of course, my 1st Age Burg Tools are long in the tooth, but I have a lot of morale/heal/power boots maxed on it, so I don't think a Lvl 85 3rd Age Burg Tools will adequately replace it.
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  4. #4
    To backtrack slightly.

    1st Age LI's earn the most legacy points. You can rank up more legacies to a higher level on a 1st Age LI compared to 2nd or 3rd Age LI's. 1st Age weapons have a higher dps rating compared to 2nd or 3rd Age LI's of the same character exp level.

    2nd Age LI's sit between 1st Age and 3rd Age for legacy points and dps rating (lower than 1st Age but higher than 3rd Age).
    3rd Age LI's are at the bottom of the list. They earn the fewest legacy points and have the lowest dps rating, but they are the easiest to get.

    You've noticed that your (below level cap) 1st Age burg tools are "better" than you could get from level cap 3rd Age tools. This is not unusual for class LI's. For weapon LI's, trading up to higher level LI's, even if it means changing from a 1st or 2nd Age weapon to a 3rd Age weapon is fairly normal. It doesn't take a huge number of character exp levels for a 3rd Age weapon to equal the DPS of a 1st Age weapon. The exact legacies on each weapon can influence this back in favour of the 1st or 2nd Age weapon but as you gain more exp levels, 3rd Age weapons eventually outclass lower level 1st or 2nd Age LI's. Of course, 1st or 2nd Age weapons of a higher level will be better, but they are harder to get.

    Class LI's are not quite as cut and dry when it comes to trading up to higher level LI's. While most 3rd Age level 85 weapons should have a clear advantage over a level 75 1st or 2nd Age weapon, a level 75 2nd or 1st Age class LI can still be "better" than a 3rd age level 85 class LI if the level 75 LI has a particularly good set of legacies for how you play. Eventually a class LI will become obsolete once the level gap becomes too big, just like with weapon LI's, but a good class LI can be useful for longer than a weapon LI as you level up.

    If your 1st Age tools are still working well, keep using them until you find another class LI that is "better" than what you have right now. It's entirely possible that the tools you using now won't become obsolate for you until the level cap goes up again, which is many months away, or if you get a symbol to make some level 85 1st or 2nd Age tools before the level cap increases again.
    Last edited by GarethB; Jan 01 2013 at 07:25 PM.
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  5. #5
    Just to add a bit to the complexity, in some cases the points available are more important than the dps rating. So, for RKs for example, your rune-stone contributes to dps and your rune satchel contributes to healing output. RKs are better off with a higher level rune-stone for dps even if it is a 3rd age, but for their dps satchel, they are better off with a lower level 1st or 2nd age satchel for dps because the extra points allow you to max out more legacies. The reverse is true for your healing rune-stone and healing satchel. A level 85 3rd age will out-heal a level 75 1st age satchel...but the healing rune-stone doesn't have to be level 85. Having more points is more important.

    The other factor that makes a difference is that some relics can only be slotted in a max level legendary item, so there is some benefit to having a higher level legendary in that it can slot more powerful relics. Eventually, as the level difference gets greater, you'll want to upgrade your non-dps legendary just for the relics you can slot.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Chico, CA
    Posts
    306
    In my experiences, I've come to realize that the difference between second age and third age LI's is not that much. There is a slight damage increase, along with a few other minor buffs. As was stated earlier, in the first comment, first age weapons are very hard to come by. In my opinion, they are rather useless. In the time it would take to find a first age symbol, you could have nearly maxed out a second and third age LI both. Just stick with what you love!
    .
    R7 Champion- Vladimar| R6 Blackarrow- Truebow
    "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by davidrspiers View Post
    In my experiences, I've come to realize that the difference between second age and third age LI's is not that much. There is a slight damage increase, along with a few other minor buffs. As was stated earlier, in the first comment, first age weapons are very hard to come by. In my opinion, they are rather useless. In the time it would take to find a first age symbol, you could have nearly maxed out a second and third age LI both. Just stick with what you love!
    I agree with this view in general; sometimes, for some classes, there really isn't that much difference -especially if you end up with 4 or 5 majors on a 3rd ager and your 2nd ager only has three. Depends on your play style mainly, and certainly outside of raiding it doesn't mean too much. Raids is an entirely, less flexible view (at least for me).

    That being said however, the one exception I have to this view if for hunters: hands down its all about DPS and when I was leveling mine, I quickly ended up dropping my 2nd agers for 3rd agers because the difference in dps increase was so noticeably different. At some point hanging onto that 2nd ager is just not worth missing the "pew-pew bang" from a 3rd ager even just 3-4 lvls up from the 2nd ager you may still have on hand.

  8. #8
    Original poster..I <3 you. I was wondering the same thing. And now thanks to your question and all these lovely peoples replies I have my answer I have most of my LI slots full so I can level up some 3rd ages for deconstruction, my two primary are 2nd age crafted by kinmates. What's the best level to deconstruct the LIs you are leveling for that purpose?
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  9. #9
    What are you hoping to get by deconstructing them?

    If you want relics, the higher you level an LI, the higher level the relics will be when you decon it. If you want LI experience runes the same rule applies, the more you level up and LI before you decon it, the bigger the exp rune will be.

    Legacy scrolls are a bit more complicated. You cannot get a legacy from an LI as a scroll until the LI has had it's level 30 reforge. When you use that scroll to put the legacy onto another LI, the legacy will always be tier 2, you will need scrolls of empowerment or level 40+ reforges to improve the legacy's tier (the lower the tier, the more legacy points you need to rank up that legacy). The best time to use legacy scrolls is between the level 30 and level 40 reforges. You'll get three chances to improve the tier of the legacy during reforges this way.

    There is also an issue with legacy scrolls from deconned LI's in that there is a limit on how high the new (character level) LI can be. Collecting a bunch of legacy scrolls from low level LI's and expecting to use those scrolls on high level LI's won't work. The devs have created specific bands of character levels, and a legacy scroll from one LI will work on another LI in the same band of levels, but not on an LI in a higher band of levels. A scroll extracted from a level 51 LI will work on a level 60 LI but not on a level 61 or higher LI. When you extract a legacy scroll from an LI, the scroll's description will clearly say what the highest (character) level LI it can be used on is.
    Therina - Hobbit Guard Rongo - Hobbit Warden
    Frood - Man Minstrel Garmun - Man Captain
    Zorosi - Dwarf Champ Froodaroon - Elf Hunter
    Southern Defenders - Arkenstone (formerly Elendilmir)

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    The devs have created specific bands of character levels, and a legacy scroll from one LI will work on another LI in the same band of levels, but not on an LI in a higher band of levels. A scroll extracted from a level 51 LI will work on a level 60 LI but not on a level 61 or higher LI. When you extract a legacy scroll from an LI, the scroll's description will clearly say what the highest (character) level LI it can be used on is.
    I have searched a ton of guides and only one guide mentions that 51-59 LI's at decon will spit out scrolls with legacies for up to level 60, and 60-64 for a max limit of 65, and 65 is usable until 70. I can't find any literature that breaks it down beyond 70. 71-74 = up to 75? 75-79 = up to 80? etc?

    Does this mean I can't really begin to start leveling legacies for end game 85 LI's until level 81?

    Thanks.
    [b]Brandywine[/b]
    - Rheece Flamelocks, [I]Burglar[/i]
    - Draxia, [i]Captain[/I]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ReeseFlamelocks View Post
    I have searched a ton of guides and only one guide mentions that 51-59 LI's at decon will spit out scrolls with legacies for up to level 60, and 60-64 for a max limit of 65, and 65 is usable until 70. I can't find any literature that breaks it down beyond 70. 71-74 = up to 75? 75-79 = up to 80? etc?

    Does this mean I can't really begin to start leveling legacies for end game 85 LI's until level 81?

    Thanks.
    It's, unfortunately, a tad more difficult since there have been changes and amendments.
    As it is now, 75 and higher generate scrolls for up to 85 (no more 80s).

    However, there have been conversions earlier, when 75 scrolls had been updated to 79 instead and newly deconstructed items gave scrolls up to 80 (when the cap was 75). I don't remember the lower bands, unfortunately, but I think they roughly correspond to their respective level caps.

    HTH,
    SNy
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