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  1. #1
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    what exactly happened to the simarillion jewels?

    what exactly happened to the silmarillion jewels?

    1 is the sun ( or is it Venus)
    Another was destroyed in dragon fire - correct?
    And then the 3rd was drowned with the sinking of Beleriand - yes?

    Is there any other mention of the one that was lost in the sea?

    Or do I have it all completely wrong?

    egads! just noticed the spelling - forgive me...
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  2. #2
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    One Silmaril became Earendil, the evening star.
    One was thrown along with the possessor of it, Maedhros, into a gaping chasm filled with fire.
    One was thrown into the Sea by Malgor after he and his brother stole the last two and found that they burnt them because of their evil deeds.

    "And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the world, and one in the deep waters." (The Silmarillion, pp.254)
    Lore-Monkey(not a Lore Guardian) and proud of it.

    .

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    what exactly happened to the silmarillion jewels?

    1 is the sun ( or is it Venus)
    The Sun according to the Silmarillion was a vessel crafted by Aule containing the last fruit of the younger tree, Laurelin the Golden, the younger of the two trees of Valinor. The moon , by the way, was a simillar vessel containing the last silver flower of Telperion the elder tree. Now others here, more learned than I, could tell you that in writings predating the source material for the Silmarillion Professor T. had the sun and moon existing before the trees and in fact the trees preserved the light of sun and moon. In the Silmarillion of course the trees were made after Melkor threw down the two lamps. There's more but I don't recall how it goes off the top of my head. Someone correct me if I got it wrong please.
    Last edited by Duathrandir; Dec 24 2012 at 04:02 PM.
    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." -C. S. Lewis-

  4. #4
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    Like The One Ring, I think Silmarils were indestructible (by others than the Valar and Fëanor himself). But as "what happened to them", they would get destroyed yet - with the help of Fëanor himself, surprisingly enough. See the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath (Battle of Battles) for those answers.

    But it is an encouraging thought that he would repent eventually, and make it up for it all.
    Last edited by Lindaelle; Dec 24 2012 at 04:21 PM.
    'There now the numbers of Eldar increase,' Voronwë said, 'for ever more flee thither of either kin from the fear of Morgoth, weary of war.'

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  5. #5
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    The fate of the three Silmarils would later be referenced by the Three Rings which Celebrimbor made for the Elves.

    As one Silmaril was set in the sky, one lost in the sea and one fallen into fiery fissure, Celebrimbor's Rings for the Elves were the rings of Fire (Narya), Water (Nenya) and Air (Vilya, "the mightiest of the Three").

    Vilya particularly seems to have enjoyed an affinity with its associated Silmaril, and with the skill of its maker. Weilding it, Galadriel is able to echo or reprise some of the feats of creation attributed to Feanor.

    Her mirror has the powers and functions of a palantir. The phial she gives Frodo holds the light of the Star of Earendil, that is of the Silmaril to which her own ring has an affinity, echoing Feanor's feat of capturing the Light of the Two Trees in the Silmarils initially.

  6. #6
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    So in theory - the one that was lost to the sea could technically be recovered?

    Much like The One Ring which was lost in the river - but then found.

    Academically only.
    Last edited by Dwarendele; Dec 26 2012 at 05:15 PM.
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    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    So in theory - the one that was lost to the sea could technically be recovered?
    No, because it wasn't fated to be seen again until the end of the world. It being lost in the depths of the sea was an essential part of bringing the epic story-cycle of the Quenta Silmarillion to an end.

  8. #8
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    Let me put it another way.

    It technically could be attempted to be recovered? (or perhaps rumored to be possible.)

    I seem to recall a minor sea deity who dwells at the bottom of the sea still visits the shores of Middle-earth to listen to the elfs sing... or something to that effect. This deity also had some skeletons in his closest over some bad associations with Morgoth. I know he has been redeemed - but...

    I dont want to get the lore headz in a tither - but I'm considering this premise for some motivation for some fanfiction and role playing - but i wanted to gather some easy info on it before I dig too deeply into the source to find some plausible inspiration for a 3rd age group of Elfs to border on the darkside in an attempt to recover the silmarillion lost in the sea at the urging (either directly or misinterpreted) of that deity.

    I do not plan to have it recovered - that is messing with the lore too much - but i don't see a reason why it cant be a motivation for someone to attempt to recover it - or believe that it is recoverable.

    So if anyone wants to have a discussion about that or can direct me to places in the source that I should know, I would be grateful.
    Take Care,
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    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    Let me put it another way.

    It technically could be attempted to be recovered? (or perhaps rumored to be possible.)
    Man, get serious. It's not as if Cirdan was like Jacques Cousteau with pointy ears.

    I seem to recall a minor sea deity who dwells at the bottom of the sea still visits the shores of Middle-earth to listen to the elfs sing... or something to that effect. This deity also had some skeletons in his closest over some bad associations with Morgoth. I know he has been redeemed - but...
    That was Ossë (a Maia, not a Vala) and he'd long since repented his misdeeds. Besides which, nobody of evil heart could touch a Silmaril without being burned by it.

    I dont want to get the lore headz in a tither - but I'm considering this premise for some motivation for some fanfiction and role playing - but i wanted to gather some easy info on it before I dig too deeply into the source to find some plausible inspiration for a 3rd age group of Elfs to border on the darkside in an attempt to recover the silmarillion lost in the sea at the urging (either directly or misinterpreted) of that deity.
    I knew it. Don't go there, that'd be horribly trashy.

  10. #10
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    I didn't expect to get your approval Rad, as far as I can tell you don't approve of anything, but I do appreciate you taking the time to post something useful to me "That was Ossë (a Maia, not a Vala) and he'd long since repented his misdeeds. Besides which, nobody of evil heart could touch a Silmaril without being burned by it."

    But have no fear - my little RPing and fanfiction falls on very few eyes and ears save my own, So you wont have to suffer my indulgences too much.

    However Im going to do what I'm going to do and even though it is for my sole amusement I do like it to make internal sense.

    If you have something more useful than just your opinion of the merits of my pondering, then by all means please add to the conversation - there is no doubt that you are very knowledgeable about the subject and I would value that input.but if you are going to follow your usual M.O - then there are other threads for you to haunt.

    Thank you

    Last edited by Dwarendele; Dec 26 2012 at 06:31 PM.
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    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    Let me put it another way.

    It technically could be attempted to be recovered? (or perhaps rumored to be possible.)

    I seem to recall a minor sea deity who dwells at the bottom of the sea still visits the shores of Middle-earth to listen to the elfs sing... or something to that effect. This deity also had some skeletons in his closest over some bad associations with Morgoth. I know he has been redeemed - but...

    I dont want to get the lore headz in a tither - but I'm considering this premise for some motivation for some fanfiction and role playing - but i wanted to gather some easy info on it before I dig too deeply into the source to find some plausible inspiration for a 3rd age group of Elfs to border on the darkside in an attempt to recover the silmarillion lost in the sea at the urging (either directly or misinterpreted) of that deity.

    I do not plan to have it recovered - that is messing with the lore too much - but i don't see a reason why it cant be a motivation for someone to attempt to recover it - or believe that it is recoverable.

    So if anyone wants to have a discussion about that or can direct me to places in the source that I should know, I would be grateful.

    Possible? Anything is possible. Timing is the issue. Probable? Not until Dagor Dagorath.

    Regarding the fan-fiction narrative: Osse is the Maiar your thinking of who went off the range and repented. The premise of Osse ignoring Mandos is problematic, but more importantly, the Uinen aggro would make Osse think twice.

    I think elves meandering the dark-side would be a stretch. Perhaps the remnant Black Numenoreans of Umbar would be an alternative if you are staying to the Third/Fourth Age.

    The best source is the legendarium. Re-read it in context to your narrative and it will inform.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallasan View Post
    Possible? Anything is possible. Timing is the issue. Probable? Not until Dagor Dagorath.

    Regarding the fan-fiction narrative: Osse is the Maiar your thinking of who went off the range and repented. The premise of Osse ignoring Mandos is problematic, but more importantly, the Uinen aggro would make Osse think twice.

    I think elves meandering the dark-side would be a stretch. Perhaps the remnant Black Numenoreans of Umbar would be an alternative if you are staying to the Third/Fourth Age.

    The best source is the legendarium. Re-read it in context to your narrative and it will inform.
    Thank you for that Hallasan.

    I have an Elf only kinship for all my little virtual elf dolls, and my thought was that they were gathered under the idea that a Silmaril could be recovered or has been recovered and they want it back.

    I imagine that they got this idea from Osse during his visits to Middle-earth, either because Osse is up to mischief or it was a case of not understanding his songs and signs - or simply because they just want to believe its possible because of pride in loving the works of their ancestors too much.

    Their primary purpose in traveling the face of Arda is to gather information about these rumors and discover the truth and if possible, reclaim the Silmaril in an attempt to either fulfill the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath (perhaps by merely returning it to the sea or Osse - I'm not sure what they imagine yet - because I dont imagine that the jewel has been found.) or to fulfill The Oath of Faenor and his sons (not sure about the last - its been a while since I've read the tale of Faenor and his sons so I'm unclear of what happened there.)

    The recent activity in Earidor; The finding of The One Ring and the gathering of the Grey company and the enemy rising, has reached their ears and they mistakenly think that "The tool that the enemy seeks" is in fact the Silmaril.

    Since they are not in the confidence of the Grey Company nor any of the wise who knows that it is the One Ring that was found - (that, is suppose to be a carefully guarded secret - Right?) - and perhaps since they are so preoccupied with the Silmaril, that it hadn't occurred to them that it was in fact the lost ring that was found.

    And that is why they are shadowing the fellowship of the rings footstamps.

    That's it.
    No
    Magnum opus, no deep sea diving elfs, no major alterations of the established works.

    Just a little internal background information for my Elf Kinships bio, that no one but me sees anyway. I appreciate feedback on the idea and would love suggestions that could improve and clarify my outline, because its more enjoyable to me if my RPing is less flawed then what I am able to figure out on my own.

    And by role playing I mean the little stories I run through my head when I'm pretending to be the characters I'm playing and the motivations behind their decisions to act the way they do - its not performed in a social manner - I RP Solo - LOL!!!
    Last edited by Dwarendele; Dec 26 2012 at 09:22 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    Thank you for that Hallasan.

    I have an Elf only kinship for all my little virtual elf dolls, and my thought was that they were gathered under the idea that a Silmaril could be recovered or has been recovered and they want it back.

    I imagine that they got this idea from Osse during his visits to Middle-earth, either because Osse is up to mischief or it was a case of not understanding his songs and signs - or simply because they just want to believe its possible because of pride in loving the works of their ancestors too much.

    Their primary purpose in traveling the face of Arda is to gather information about these rumors and discover the truth and if possible, reclaim the Silmaril in an attempt to either fulfill the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath (perhaps by merely returning it to the sea or Osse - I'm not sure what they imagine yet - because I dont imagine that the jewel has been found.) or to fulfill The Oath of Faenor and his sons (not sure about the last - its been a while since I've read the tale of Faenor and his sons so I'm unclear of what happened there.)

    The recent activity in Earidor; The finding of The One Ring and the gathering of the Grey company and the enemy rising, has reached their ears and they mistakenly think that "The tool that the enemy seeks" is in fact the Silmaril.

    Since they are not in the confidence of the Grey Company nor any of the wise who knows that it is the One Ring that was found - (that, is suppose to be a carefully guarded secret - Right?) - and perhaps since they are so preoccupied with the Silmaril, that it hadn't occurred to them that it was in fact the lost ring that was found.

    And that is why they are shadowing the fellowship of the rings footstamps.

    That's it.
    No
    Magnum opus, no deep sea diving elfs, no major alterations of the established works.

    Just a little internal background information for my Elf Kinships bio, that no one but me sees anyway. I appreciate feedback on the idea and would love suggestions that could improve and clarify my outline, because its more enjoyable to me if my RPing is less flawed then what I am able to figure out on my own.

    And by role playing I mean the little stories I run through my head when I'm pretending to be the characters I'm playing and the motivations behind their decisions to act the way they do - its not performed in a social manner - I RP Solo - LOL!!!

    RP solo is what every player is doing to varying degrees. This game lends itself given the history provided. Picking a race, name and class are immersion devices that people use ranging from a type of lore orthodoxy to the PvMP comedic names. Everyone, at varying altitudes, are role playing.

    The elf + silmaril premise, given the dwindling and exiting stage west; Cirdan, the Havens, Sons of Feanor, Elwing and the Silmaril events in the first age; the practical issue of Beleriand being underwater; and the elf narrative around Maglor and the Silmaril he disposed of seems tenuous.

    Your forum Dwarf avatar may give you a different Silmaril narrative. Maedhros tossing himself into a fiery chasm with a Silmaril may be an entertaining plot device as the dwarves are always digging and underground is underground regardless of what is above it. Broadbeams digging in Beleriand.

    I will reassert re-reading the legendarium in context to the various narratives you create will inform your concern with flaws and enrich your personal narrative. Much like Turbine, you are creating a parallel narrative.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hallasan View Post
    RP solo is what every player is doing to varying degrees. This game lends itself given the history provided. Picking a race, name and class are immersion devices that people use ranging from a type of lore orthodoxy to the PvMP comedic names. Everyone, at varying altitudes, are role playing.

    The elf + silmaril premise, given the dwindling and exiting stage west; Cirdan, the Havens, Sons of Feanor, Elwing and the Silmaril events in the first age; the practical issue of Beleriand being underwater; and the elf narrative around Maglor and the Silmaril he disposed of seems tenuous.

    Your forum Dwarf avatar may give you a different Silmaril narrative. Maedhros tossing himself into a fiery chasm with a Silmaril may be an entertaining plot device as the dwarves are always digging and underground is underground regardless of what is above it. Broadbeams digging in Beleriand.

    I will reassert re-reading the legendarium in context to the various narratives you create will inform your concern with flaws and enrich your personal narrative. Much like Turbine, you are creating a parallel narrative.
    And here I just thought it was a product of being the last child left at home and being raised 20 miles from our nearest neighbor - just used to entertaining myself. LOL

    Seriously, I totally agree and what's more, I find no shame in that game.

    So, you are less opposed to the idea that a Silmaril could be found then which Silmaril is found? Funny how I focused in on the one in the sea and you the one thrown into a gaping chasm filled with fire. Earendil is a no-brainer, but lost in the depths of the seas as opposed to lost in a chasm filled with fire sounds more recoverable to me - but maybe that's just 21st century thinking and I dont pretend (usually) to have any special grasp on the professors works, even though I read them all and some more then a few times - I really get bogged down and confused with the names, places, dates and intentions of the material beyond The Hobbit and LOTR.

    Thanks again.
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    maybe that's just 21st century thinking
    That's exactly what it is. That Silmaril would be like any other treasure lost in in the depths of the sea, prior to the sorts of inventions that let people go looking for them - lost for good.

    The idea of Ossë getting involved in anything like that and appearing to anyone is vanishingly unlikely, both for the timing (it's the Third Age, not the First) and the idea that he might have some ulterior motive. He'd long since moved past his former dalliance with Morgoth and been forgiven, we're told that so you can't have it the way you want without messing with something pretty damn significant.

    Lastly, there's a huge plot hole in what you're saying: let's say he does appear to someone, what on earth are they supposed to do about it? What meaningful action can they possibly take? (Beyond going and talking to Cirdan, and being told to stop asking foolish questions). Given the manifest impossibility of this would-be epic quest, has your Ossë become bored and taken to trolling Elves, or what?

    As for this:

    If you have something more useful than just your opinion of the merits of my pondering, then by all means please add to the conversation - there is no doubt that you are very knowledgeable about the subject and I would value that input.but if you are going to follow your usual M.O - then there are other threads for you to haunt.
    Don't ask questions (particularly of people who know the material well) if you're not going to like the answers. There's nothing in the parent fiction that'd make the Silmaril that was lost in the sea any more retrievable than the one in the fiery chasm, or the one that was bound to Earendil's brow. We're talking Tolkien, not Jules Verne.

  16. #16
    Just to get a conversation going, what if the third Silmaril has already been found?

    -Point the first: The Silmarilli are indestructible. Even Fëanor himself after Dagor Dagorath will simply 'unlock' them and let Yavanna and Varda use their light to rekindle the Two Trees.
    -Point the second: Maedhros tossed himself and his Silmaril into a fiery chasm. Sounds a lot like a lava flow to me. The Silmaril would have gotten sucked down into the depths of the Earth, maybe even as far as the mantle.
    -Point the third: The amount of gems, especially diamonds, that the Dwarves found at Erebor, coupled with the fact that the mountain's loneliness and general shape, speaks strongly toward that mountain being, in fact, a dead volcano.
    Point the fourth: The Arkenstone, which was found at the heart of the mountain, both takes what light falls on it and amplifies it and shines with a light of its own. So far as we know, there were only three jewels in all the history of Middle-Earth that could do that.
    -Point the fifth: The Silmarilli burn those of evil intent and heart who hold or touch them. The Arkenstone was kept on the top of Smaug's hoard, while he slept coiled around it. You would think that he would want such a beautiful stone kept under his eye or claw at all times, if not imbedded in his breastplate. There would have to be some powerfully compelling reason he didn't.

    TL;DR: The Arkenstone is a Silmaril.

    Now, debate!

    The Éored of the West-Mark ~ Lore-accurate Rohirric Kinship on Landroval

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cala_Romello View Post
    TL;DR: The Arkenstone is a Silmaril.
    It can't be, because the Dwarves had shaped the Arkenstone.

    (Besides which, Tolkien didn't originally write The Hobbit in the same context as the Quenta Silmarillion).
    Last edited by Radhruin_EU; Dec 27 2012 at 11:54 AM.

  18. #18
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    I think you missed the point of my plot Rad, admittedly I have refined it some from the input I received here and was vague on some of the details that I can put a sharper point on now, but;

    The premise is that "my" group of Elfs mistakenly believe that the Silmaril has been found.

    They got this idea from misinterpreting the appearance of Osse during one of his visits to M-e. (Osse never meant to mislead them and in fact doesn't even know that his appearance has caused such confusion - he just came to hear the Elfs sing and gather news from the waters of Middle-earth about the events sounding the war of the ring. he doesn't even know my little band of confused elfs exists. )

    My elfs have banned together in a kinship to discover the truth of this mistaken belief and travel the world to that effect.

    They have vowed to return the Silmaril back to the sea so that the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath can be fulfilled. (a oath in vain since the Silmaril hasn't actually been found - they are just wrong and chasing a red herring.)

    The rumors and stirrings of the enemy rising and searching for a great weapon or prize and the actions of the Grey Company in Earidor has caught their attention and they suspect that all the hub-bub is over the recovered Silmaril (they are too preoccupied with thoughts of the Silmaril to consider that the hub-bub is over the ring instead.)

    Thus they come to Earidor and enter the questing provided in LOTRO, hoping to find out the truth of their mission and fulfill their oath...

    I dont find anything about this outline to be un-plausible or inconsistent with the legendarium and in fact I believe it's just as good of a kinship background Bio as any and maybe better then some of them.

    Thank you all for your input and helping me cut quickly through the source material.

    The Arkenstone debate had my wheels turning for a second - and I liked it - but I think Rad is right - they had to shape the arkenstone - pity - that could have been some rich story telling there.

    And Rad, my curtness to you was in response to your attitude not your knowledge - I solicited your insight and that knowledge - not your opinion of if my solicitations was worthy or not. In between your statement designed to make me look foolish - you actually provided me with some helpful feedback - thanks for the responses that I had use for.
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    The premise is that "my" group of Elfs mistakenly believe that the Silmaril has been found.

    They got this idea from misinterpreting the appearance of Osse during one of his visits to M-e.
    What visits? That's part of the point, too: the Valar and their servants had gone hands-off a long time before, no longer manifesting themselves directly. The Istari were very much an exception and even then they only appeared in humble, limited forms. And in any case, what in particular about Ossë's appearance could have led these Elves of yours to believe a Silmaril had been found, of all things? I'm not seeing the connection, there.

  20. #20
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    You can't see the connection or you won't see the connection?


    It's been established that Osse has a special affinity for the Teleri, of whom Cirdan and his kin still dwell at the Grey Havens of Middle-earth. Its also been established that Osse has a stubborn willfulness to go off the range and sometimes behave violently and unpredictable, not always in accordance to the will of Ulmo and the Valar, and he is in need of being kept in constant check by Uinen.


    From there it is not a stretch for me to imagine that an occasion could occur when Osse comes close to the shores of Middle-earth in the 3rd age, out of curiosity and desire to see what Cirdan and his folk are up to, in spite of Uinen and Ulmo wishes.


    I dont imagine that he invited the elfs over for tea and conversed with them - only that he came and not unnoticed by all. He need not to have manifested himself physically - the form of unseasonable storms and whispers on the waves is enough.


    Maybe your elfs are a bit smarter and wiser than mine, but Its not hard for me to understand that people (and elfs) will believe what they want to believe and that dreams, omens and signs can be misread or mistakenly be attributed to some pretty crazy ideas - especially when the people who claim to have an epiphany want to believe crazy things.


    My elfs grasp at straws trying to connect dots and have came to the wrong conclusion - Osse doesn't have to have a hand in any of that.


    I'll even say that the leader of my Elf kin is perhaps delusional and maybe even a bit loony but has convinced his kindred that what he claims is true.


    As far as attaching my alternate narrative to the lore of the Silmarillion - why wouldn't I? I'm not bound by any law or licensing to say, think and write anything I want to. The only restriction is that I don't try to sell these thoughts for profit... since I'm not selling and you are not buying, nothing more needs to be said on that matter.


    In fact it's all a mute discussion now since I have fleshed this out to my satisfaction and am moving on.


    Thank you for making me think more critically about my "fantasy" - I am much happier with the notion now than what I was before our discussion.

    Take care.
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    You can't see the connection or you won't see the connection?
    I don't see the connection because as I said, it's supposed to be the Third Age and the Maiar who served the Valar no longer just casually manifested themselves in Middle-earth and those who were there, the Istari, had gone incognito and with their powers subject to restraint. Full stop, end of story, will of the Powers and all that. So it's more like you won't see the problem.

    Do stop trying to tell me what works or not, when you had to damn well ask what happened to the Silmarils, never mind anything like this.

    I dont imagine that he invited the elfs over for tea and conversed with them - only that he came and not unnoticed by all. He need not to have manifested himself physically - the form of unseasonable storms and whispers on the waves is enough.
    What's the message he's supposed to be sending them, then?

    Maybe your elfs are a bit smarter and wiser than mine, but Its not hard for me to understand that people (and elfs) will believe what they want to believe and that dreams, omens and signs can be misread or mistakenly be attributed to some pretty crazy ideas - especially when the people who claim to have an epiphany want to believe crazy things.
    Elves are supposed to be wiser than Men (by virtue of age if nothing else) but you're treating them exactly like Men. That one won't fly. Again, I can't see the connection between these supposed messages, of whatever form, and a sudden mistaken belief that one of the Silmarils had been found. That's a plot hole, it requires Elves to be stupid or deluded, to leap to wild conclusions like Men might, and not to do the obvious thing like asking one of the Wise about it (Cirdan, say, as the obvious candidate).

    I'll even say that the leader of my Elf kin is perhaps delusional and maybe even a bit loony but has convinced his kindred that what he claims is true.
    Again, not sounding very Elvish, there, and powergaming by insisting people actually believe him, too. And it's not as if the Elves had forgotten the dreadful harm a charismatic leader could cause after the whole Feanor thing and the horrors that led to. But no, you're having them making the exact same mistake again... just as Men might.

    As far as attaching my alternate narrative to the lore of the Silmarillion - why wouldn't I?
    Oh, of course you can - but it does help to have read the damn book first, rather than just ransacking it for bits and bobs you like the sound of and ignoring things you don't. (Like, say, how the game is set late in the Third Age, not during the First).

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    912
    You are just twisting in the wind Rad - I'm good with my story - sorry that you are not - but as I have said before - this is my fantasy for my amusement.

    I did ask for information, I am relying on the knowledge of others and I have considered everything that was said. I thanked you for being a PITA and have even conceded that your objections have caused me to consider a more realistic outline.

    What else to you want me to do?

    Drop the whole notion?

    Sorry - I'm not going to do that.

    You want to be an insulting &&&&& - then go for it. Really, it's no skin off my nose and I could care less what you think about me or my story.

    I would have preferred to let this go at my last post - but since you want to up the ante - let me conclude with one last thought:

    Have a nice day.


    (Ha - No, I wont stoop to that level)
    Last edited by Dwarendele; Dec 27 2012 at 06:57 PM.
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Ossë become bored and taken to trolling Elves
    Silmarils, personal narratives and plausibility aside, this line had me laughing in context to the doom of Cirdan, his yearning to cross-over, his obedience to the Valar and not shaving.

    Regarding personal narratives using the game, well, re-reading the legendarium can only inform and enhance the experience.
    Last edited by hallasan; Dec 27 2012 at 07:51 PM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    912
    I hear you loud and clear Hallasan, and I thank you for your diplomacy.
    Take Care,
    D.
    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?496094-The-Brief-Mr.-Bako-Bongo-In-Soup-Du-Jour."]My LOTRO Comics and Fan-Fiction[/URL]

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ohio River valley
    Posts
    267
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwarendele View Post
    So in theory - the one that was lost to the sea could technically be recovered?
    I suppose, in theory. But there is a prophecy (from Mandos? I am fuzzy on specifics) that the Silmarils will never be recovered until the unmaking of the world. Rather say that the fate of the Silmaril lost to the sea gave plausibility to Saruman's claim that the same fate had befallen the Ring.

    What stories you tell yourself as you play are, of course, your own business. But this one has been pretty firmly established in the legendarium.

 

 
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